Leaked Osama bin Laden Abbottabad Commission report on Al Jazeera - Debunks Conspiracy Theories

[MikeC]

I didn't say believe everybody - I said (more or less) don't let suspicion become surety unless you have the evidence to support the conclusion.

 

[Landru]

Personally, I believe he died in Dec 2001, as do many others.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23674587/The-Last-Days-of-Bin-Laden-by-Nick-Kollerstrom-PhD

The Last Days of Bin Laden
by Nick Kollerstrom, PhDIn Orwell’s novel 1984, there is a figure called Emmanuel Goldstein who functions as an all-purposeenemy - even though we gather, in the story, that he may have died some time ago. Osama BinLaden (1947 – 2001) has been used in a similar manner by the Powers that Be, through a processof identity theft during the last days of his life. In reality there have been no sightings or reports of him since 2001. I here argue that he died on or around December 16th, 2001, in consequence of theintensive bombing of his then-residence the Tora Bora caves of eastern Afghanistan; and that hehad no involvement in the events of 9/11

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This issue was discussed in https://www.metabunk.org/threads/evidence-that-osama-bin-laden-was-involved-in-9-11.1848/

 

[Joe]

I didn't say believe everybody - I said (more or less) don't let suspicion become surety unless you have the evidence to support the conclusion.

I believe there is a gut feeling that I cant ignore the hell with facts maybe Im just physic or psycho ?

 

[MikeC]

gut feeling is fine - suspicions are fine - but IMO they aren't evidence upon which you should make conclusions.

 

[Oxymoron]

If you believed everything there is no evidence for you'd be a pretty sad case.

I am saying that suspicion should not be allowed to become belief without evidence.

If there was no evidence, I would agree with you but there is a lot of evidence that he died in 2001. I think although this has been discussed previously, as Landru points out, it is germane to this thread as well as OBL's death forms the bulk of the document we are currently discussing and it was put forward as definitive proof. Now I admit it is strong evidence but there is still other evidence to consider, if one is so inclined, IMO and the Obama admin has certainly left plenty of room for skepticism by withholding evidence and producing contradictory evidence. Add to that, it was predicted they would use such a ploy for their political expedience.

I think SR raises a very good point about AQ leadership being loath to substantiate any such U.S political manouvering or propaganda but I don't agree it would be 'out of the question', if they felt it would benefit them enough, which it appears to have done because they are going from strength to strength in many Countries of the M.E. Apparently indirectly supported by the U.S I may add.

What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive.

 

[Oxymoron]

As promised, here is some quite substantive evidence, (not conclusive but evidence none the less), with a number of sources linked, that OBL died/was killed in Dec 2001.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.php

 

[Grieves]

I just do not see the inner circle of AQ going along with any charade or conspiracy put forth by the US for whatever reason.

But who is 'the inner circle' of AlQueda? What is AlQueda exactly these days? Back in 2001, AlQueda was OBL's international goon-squad. His personal cadre of douche-bags. We were worried about the bigger fish who backed these bastards up, like the Taliban and such. ('and such' being the Nation of Iraq.) But what is it now? Honestly, can anyone quantify the modern AlQueda for me, at least on a basic level? As it seems to me that these days it doesn't matter where you are, if you lift up a mineral-rich rock, there's AlQueda underneath. In fact it's beginning to seem like AlQueda is just the new term for people with Jihadist leanings. Except, of course, when they're on our side. Those guys definitely aren't AlQueda. And even when we find out some of them maybe are involved with AlQueda in some way, well that's ok, as we're not really supporting them... we're supporting the dudes standing directly beside them, chanting the exact same words. So when its Mali, the Jihadists there are most definitely AlQueda, unquestionably directly tied to the bastards who leveled 3 buildings and killed thousands on 9/11, unquestionably worthy of fierce military action and a long occupation not all that different from Iraq.... but when it's Syria, the Jihadists there are brave, good-hearted freedom-fighters trying to liberate their nation from tyranny and restore democracy. So what if they associate with those bastards who leveled 3 buildings and killed thousands on 9/11... do you think we wanted to work with Stalin in WW2? We're just doing what has to be done for freedom and liberty and justice and democracy and all that good stuff...!

AlQueda has always seemed something of a contrivance to me. A well-forged tool to inspire hate and disregard in the American people. Who gives a damn about Iraq, who gives a damn about Afghanistan, who gives a damn about Mali? Fuckers are protecting AlQueda and deserve whatever they get. Yet when the people we're protecting turn out to be members of the factions and gangs whom we were labeling as 'AlQueda' yesterday, the tune changes rapidly.

 

[Oxymoron]

Yes indeed, what is the end game? If it wasn't so horrific it would be farcical.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-nus...-slaughter-kurdish-women-and-children/5345181

According to a report posted on the Al-Alam News Network, the al-Nusra Front has massacred 120 children and 330 men and women in the town of Tal Abyad located in a district of northern Syria that is part of the Al-Raqqa governorate.

Kurds in the area have recently formed militias to fight against terrorist mercenaries from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and al-Nusra Front.

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[SR1419]

But who is 'the inner circle' of AlQueda?

this guy ring a bell?

Ayman Mohammed Rabie al-Zawahiri[2] (Arabic: أيمن محمد ربيع الظواهري‎ʾAyman Muḥammad Rabīʿ aẓ-Ẓawāhirī, born 19 June 1951) is an Egyptian physician,[3] Islamic theologian and current leader of the militant Islamist organization al-Qaeda.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

But if bin Laden was al-Qaeda’s international icon, al-Zawahiri is its intellectual heavyweight, the author of multiple books and manifestos explaining the group’s views and goals. “More than Osama bin Laden, he’s been important in writing and pushing out al-Qaeda’s ideology,”

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/08/0...uccessor-back-in-the-spotlight/#ixzz2bUpzXJHg

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[Josh Heuer]

this guy ring a bell?

Ayman Mohammed Rabie al-Zawahiri[2] (Arabic: أيمن محمد ربيع الظواهري‎ʾAyman Muḥammad Rabīʿ aẓ-Ẓawāhirī, born 19 June 1951) is an Egyptian physician,[3] Islamic theologian and current leader of the militant Islamist organization al-Qaeda.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

But if bin Laden was al-Qaeda’s international icon, al-Zawahiri is its intellectual heavyweight, the author of multiple books and manifestos explaining the group’s views and goals. “More than Osama bin Laden, he’s been important in writing and pushing out al-Qaeda’s ideology,”

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/08/0...uccessor-back-in-the-spotlight/#ixzz2bUpzXJHg

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I didn't realize an 'inner circle' consisted of one guy...

 

[SR1419]

As promised, here is some quite substantive evidence, (not conclusive but evidence none the less), with a number of sources linked, that OBL died/was killed in Dec 2001.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.php

"Substantive evidence" really Oxy?

Out of context quotes and broken links supported by pure conjecture?

For example -

FBI: Bin Laden 'probably' dead
The US Federal Bureau of Investigation's counter-terrorism chief, Dale Watson, says he thinks Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead.

but the actual quote is:

"I am not really sure of the answer... I personally think he is probably not with us anymore but I have no evidence to support that."

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from Karzai:

"I would come to believe that [bin Laden] probably is dead," Karzai said on CNN's "Late Edition" on Sunday.

"But still, you never know. He might be alive."

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Is that what you consider substantive?

 

[SR1419]

I didn't realize an 'inner circle' consisted of one guy...

[...]

This guy (zawahiri) is the current leader of the original org- was second in command for years...and didn't suggest OBL didn't die in May 2011.

Today, Wuhayshi is a top target for the United States, after intelligence agencies monitored a conference call last week that served as a virtual board meeting for al Qaeda’s central leadership and the group's global affiliates—and in which the Yemeni-born jihadist was promoted to the position of general manager for al Qaeda operations.

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The official said Zawahiri announced to the broader organization during the meeting that Wuhayshi had been promoted to “Ma’sul al-Amm,” an Arabic term that roughly translates as “general manager.” The promotion effectively gave the leader of al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen operational control of al Qaeda’s many affiliates throughout the Muslim world,

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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-new-general-manager-nasser-al-wuhayshi.html

perhaps some of the folks on this call might be considered "inner circle":

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ercepted-by-u-s-officials-sparked-alerts.html

 

[Josh Heuer]

That's more like it. I'm not doubting there is an 'inner circle', I was just pointing out that one guy is not an inner circle. Also, the fact that he didn't suggest OBL didn't die in may 2011 is useless information. He also didn't suggest unicorns killed OBL.

 

[Oxymoron]

http://presstv.com/detail/2013/08/08/317782/us-alqaeda-alert-a-distraction/

When the US announced Tuesday it would evacuate all "non-essential staff" from the embassy, Yemenis immediately assumed that something seriously wrong was indeed at play. After all, no country would stage such a dramatic exit unless al-Qaeda was literally on its heels. Within hours the UK chose to recall its staff, urging all its nationals to immediately fly out of Yemen.

“Due to increased security concerns, all staff in our Yemen embassy have been temporarily withdrawn, and the embassy will remain closed until staff are able to return,” a UK Foreign Office spokesman told the press on Tuesday. A later report read, “If you don’t leave the country now while commercial carriers are still flying it is extremely unlikely that the British government will be able to evacuate you or provide consular assistance."

The threat

With the press hunting for clues, US intelligence officials candidly revealed that their services had intercepted a conversation in between two top al-Qaeda operatives --Ayman Mohammed Rabie al-Zawahiri and Nasser al-Wuhayshi -- in which they allegedly discuss an imminent revenge attack against foreign interests both in Yemen and abroad.

Security analysts speculated that al-Qaeda plans to target Guantanamo Bay Penitentiary - America's infamous terror detention center - referring to a recent audio message made by Ayman al-Zawahiri where he warned the US of reprisals for its crimes against Gitmo detainees.
On Wednesday, a US official told International Business Times, "The Yemeni branch of al-Qaeda has developed a new hard-to-detect liquid explosive that might be used in future terrorist attacks."

Senior US security officials then explained that "Clothes dipped in the liquid reportedly became explosive devices when dry and might be worn by suicide attackers." Such technology would essentially turn anyone into a terror suspect and make prevention and detection a logistical nightmare.

At this point the dots began to join up and a picture to form.

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[SR1419]

That's more like it. I'm not doubting there is an 'inner circle', I was just pointing out that one guy is not an inner circle. Also, the fact that he didn't suggest OBL didn't die in may 2011 is useless information. He also didn't suggest unicorns killed OBL.

Agreed- that was poorly worded. What IS useful info is the fact that they - the inner circle- released a statement in May 2011 confirming OBL's death.

"In a historic day for the great Islamic nation... the mujahid (holy warrior) Shiekh Abu Abdullah, Osama bin Mohammed bin Laden, God have mercy on him, was killed on the path taken by those before him and will be taken by others after him."

"Congratulations to the Islamic umma (community) for the martyrdom of its son Osama."

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[Oxymoron]

"Substantive evidence" really Oxy?

Out of context quotes and broken links supported by pure conjecture?

For example -

FBI: Bin Laden 'probably' dead
The US Federal Bureau of Investigation's counter-terrorism chief, Dale Watson, says he thinks Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead.

but the actual quote is:

"I am not really sure of the answer... I personally think he is probably not with us anymore but I have no evidence to support that."

Content from External Source

from Karzai:

"I would come to believe that [bin Laden] probably is dead," Karzai said on CNN's "Late Edition" on Sunday.

"But still, you never know. He might be alive."

Content from External Source

Is that what you consider substantive?

What like these links which were in the first link, are not 'quite substantive'.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/o...0&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines

The Death of bin Ladenism
By Amir Taheri
Published: July 11, 2002
Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information. The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July
French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital

• The Guardian, Thursday 1 November 2001 03.17 GMT

Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.
The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

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http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/02/01/gen.bergen.cnna/index.html

CNN: The last interview you did with bin Laden was back in 1997. How different was the Osama bin Laden we saw in this tape, the interview taped late in October of 2001?

BERGEN: He's actually quite similar. I mean, in terms of his demeanor and his voice -- these kinds of things are quite similar. The big difference is that he's aged enormously between '97 and October of last year.

This is a man who was clearly not well. I mean, as you see from these pictures here, he's really, by December he's looking pretty terrible. But by December, of course, that tape that was aired then, he's barely moving the left side of his body. So he's clearly got diabetes. He has low blood pressure. He's got a wound in his foot. He's apparently got dialysis ... for kidney problems.

I mean, this is a man who has a number of health problems, apart from the fact that anybody running around the Afghan mountains is not going to be in great shape.

CNN: And, of course, the question that people continue to debate is not only is he not well, is he still alive today? Peter Bergen, thank you very much for coming along to share your insights with us this morning.

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http://www.presstv.ir/detail/178898.html

Iran's intelligence minister says the country has reliable information that former head of the al-Qaeda terrorist group Osama bin Laden died of disease some time ago.


“We have accurate information that bin Laden died of illness some time ago,” Heidar Moslehi told reporters on the sidelines of a Cabinet meeting on Sunday.

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There are lots more but I am not spoon feeding... It seems you want to present it as you would like it, not as it is.

 

[Josh Heuer]

Agreed- that was poorly worded. What IS useful info is the fact that they - the inner circle- released a statement in May 2011 confirming OBL's death.

"In a historic day for the great Islamic nation... the mujahid (holy warrior) Shiekh Abu Abdullah, Osama bin Mohammed bin Laden, God have mercy on him, was killed on the path taken by those before him and will be taken by others after him."

"Congratulations to the Islamic umma (community) for the martyrdom of its son Osama."

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Interesting note is that this quote from al Qaeda claiming he died was posted on an Internet forum. #1 how credible is it? #2 can you find the actual forum it was posted on? News sources I've found all mention it but none give a source or link to the forum.

 

[Oxymoron]

Interesting note is that this quote from al Qaeda claiming he died was posted on an Internet forum. #1 how credible is it? #2 can you find the actual forum it was posted on? News sources I've found all mention it but none give a source or link to the forum.

It is not that substantive apparently

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/06/bin.laden.qaeda.comment/

(CNN) -- Al Qaeda released a statement on jihadist forums Friday confirming the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, according to SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors Islamist websites.

The development comes days after U.S. troops killed bin Laden in a raid on a compound in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad.

The statement, translated by SITE, lauded the late militant, threatened to take action against the United States, and urged Pakistanis to "rise up and revolt."

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Site intelligence is run by Rita Katz

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rita_Katz

"A series of raids in Northern Virginia in March 2002 of non-profit organizations and private homes terrorized a community and targeted some of the most prominent and well respected Muslim organizations and citizens of the United States. No money laundering or terrorism financing charges have been brought against these organizations or their officers in over three years. Some federal officials have characterized the investigation as an 'intelligence probe' designed to gather information rather than to enforce the law," Timothy H. Edgar, National Security Policy Counsel for the ACLU testified in April 2005, before the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security of the House Committee on the Judiciary.[8]

"...federal agents seized confidential files, computer hard drives, books, and other materials from some of the most respected Islamic think tanks and organizations in the United States and raided the homes of many of the leaders involved in those organizations. The search warrants targeted two entities whose main purpose involves activities at the core of the First Amendment: the Graduate School of Islamic Thought and Social Sciences (GSITSS), an institute of higher education, and the International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), an Islamic research institute and think tank, as well as the private homes of a number of their employees and scholars," Edgar said.

"The complaint in the civil rights action says the affidavit in support of the search warrants contained fabricated material facts regarding non-existent overseas transactions. The complaint also says the search warrant affidavit was drafted with the help of private author and self-styled 'terrorist hunter' Rita Katz, who was paid $272,000 for her advice by the federal government and has made much more in a book deal and as a consultant for news organizations. According to federal investigators, Katz 'lost the trust of some investigators from the FBI and Justice Department' as a result in part of the 'reckless conclusions' she drew in her book," Edgar said.[8]

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[Mick West]

I think it's the "Islamist websites." you want to look at for veracity, not "Site Intelligence", which was just repeating what it saw.
http://news.siteintelgroup.com/

 

[Oxymoron]

I think it's the "Islamist websites." you want to look at for veracity, not "Site Intelligence", which was just repeating what it saw.
http://news.siteintelgroup.com/

What 'Islamist sites'? I can't read 'Islamist' so how would I know what they say anyway but I suspect you are talking about PressTV but how are they any more propagandist than Foxy news or CNN or even the BBC for that matter. I try to balance them all and come to a conclusion from there.

I must say that Al Jazeera and RT deal with more substantial stuff than a lot of other news outlets. If I want to know about Panda babies or hours on end about when the royal baby will be born, the BBC would be my first choice.

 

[Mick West]

What 'Islamist sites'?

The one mentioned in the excerpt you posted.

I can't read 'Islamist' so how would I know what they say anyway

Google translate. Or ask someone who knows.

but I suspect you are talking about PressTV but how are they any more propagandist than Foxy news or CNN or even the BBC for that matter. I try to balance them all and come to a conclusion from there.

I must say that Al Jazeera and RT deal with more substantial stuff than a lot of other news outlets. If I want to know about Panda babies or hours on end about when the royal baby will be born, the BBC would be my first choice.

I wasn't thinking of PressTV, but since you mention them, they are a government funded anti-american propaganda machine who have people like Gordon Duff on as reputable sources. Al Jazeera is not so bad.

 

[Mick West]

Actually was an audio statement, put on a variety of "Jihadist" web sites. Nobody has questioned the translation AFAIK.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/05/201156125729467729.html

Al-Qaeda has confirmed the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, and said in an online posting that it will continue to launch attacks on the West.
The group said it would not deviate from the path of armed struggle and that bin Laden's blood "is more precious to us and to every Muslim than to be wasted in vain".

The statement was released on forums sympathetic to al-Qaeda and translated by the SITE monitoring service on Friday.

"It [bin Laden's blood] will remain, with permission from Allah the Almighty, a curse that chases the Americans and their agents, and goes after them inside and outside their countries," al-Qaeda said.

It was not clear what country the statement had been posted from.

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[Oxymoron]

The one mentioned in the excerpt you posted.
Google translate. Or ask someone who knows.
I wasn't thinking of PressTV, but since you mention them, they are a government funded anti-american propaganda machine who have people like Gordon Duff on as reputable sources. Al Jazeera is not so bad.

I wasn't aware I posted one. SR posted a quote which quoted 'an Islamic forum' supposedly where Al Qaeda said OBL was killed in 2011... that came from Rita Katz and I posted a source watch link and extract.

I think more people should watch Al Jazeera, RT and Presstv to get a more balanced view instead of relying on the western propaganda. That is not to say that I give them more credence but it is only right to hear both sides and weigh up the evidence rather than just listening to the prosecution saying they 'have wmd's in their underpants' and then cheering on an invasion force.

 

[Oxymoron]

Actually was an audio statement, put on a variety of "Jihadist" web sites. Nobody has questioned the translation AFAIK.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/05/201156125729467729.html

Al-Qaeda has confirmed the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, and said in an online posting that it will continue to launch attacks on the West.
The group said it would not deviate from the path of armed struggle and that bin Laden's blood "is more precious to us and to every Muslim than to be wasted in vain".

The statement was released on forums sympathetic to al-Qaeda and translated by the SITE monitoring service on Friday.

"It [bin Laden's blood] will remain, with permission from Allah the Almighty, a curse that chases the Americans and their agents, and goes after them inside and outside their countries," al-Qaeda said.

It was not clear what country the statement had been posted from.

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Seems somewhat ambiguous. Confirming he is dead is not the same as saying 'yes the Americans did it in Abbottabad'.

I take that back... it does seem to suggest that.

The CIA will not confirm the authenticity of an alleged OBL tape which is quite strange as it would back up their claim.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/05/18/bin.laden.audio/

(CNN) -- Radical Islamic websites Wednesday posted an Arab Spring audio message purportedly recorded by Osama bin Laden shortly before he was killed.

The recording, which is more than 12 minutes long and was released by al Qaeda's media arm, As-Sahab, lists the speaker as bin Laden and calls him "the martyr of Islam."

The audio begins with a prayer and remarks reportedly made by bin Laden about anti-government protests and uprisings earlier this year in several African and Middle East countries.

CNN, which translated the audio, could not confirm its authenticity.

The Islamic date with the audio indicates it was recorded between April 4 and May 3.

Its posting came one day before U.S. President Barack Obama was to deliver a speech highlighting his administration's revised policies toward the Arab region in the wake of the Arab Spring protests.

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It is not easy to get to the truth as there is so much disinformation from all sources.

 

[SR1419]

Interesting note is that this quote from al Qaeda claiming he died was posted on an Internet forum. #1 how credible is it? #2 can you find the actual forum it was posted on? News sources I've found all mention it but none give a source or link to the forum.

Do you read Arabic?

Here is an English language forum:

http://ansar1.info/showthread.php?t=33089

The message appears to have been hastily crafted, likely in an attempt to illustrate to followers that al-Qaeda is still extant following bin Laden's death and able to react rapidly to current events. Although the confirmation was released on May 6, it was dated May 3, indicating a lag of three days between the time the message was drafted and its distribution on jihadist forums. This lag does not appear to have been intended, as there have been repeated online requests and demands from jihadist ideologues and supporters to confirm or deny bin Laden's death, forcing the administration of the main jihadist forum to issue a statement stating that they had no information on bin Laden's status.

Perhaps further indicating that the message was drafted very early after the news of bin Laden's death, the message demands that the United States hand over the body of bin Laden to his family, demonstrating that the authors of the message were unaware of the news that the terrorist leader's body had already been disposed of at sea.

Additionally, in order to prevent leaks, messages from al-Qaeda are typically password-protected before being distributed to jihadist forums, along with the passwords to decrypt them. In this case, however, the message was released without password-protection, indicating that the statement was published as soon as it was received by al-Fajr Center, al-Qaeda's online distribution committee.

Without naming a new leader and apparently written very shortly after bin Laden's death, al-Qaeda seems to be asserting to its followers and the world that it is an organization that is larger than any single man. Whether al-Qaeda even need name an “official” new leader is uncertain, as was the case following the death of al-Qaeda's commander in Afghanistan, Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, killed in May 2010. So long as the group can continue to issue messages, just like its statement on bin Laden's death, and broadcast the statements of other leaders, such as Ayman al-Zawahiri, Louis Attiyah Allah, and Abu Yahya al-Libi, the group will remain a guiding light for the global jihadist community.

Content from External Source

http://news.siteintelgroup.com/free...to-al-qaedas-confirmation-of-bin-ladens-death


http://news.siteintelgroup.com/comp...h&phpMyAdmin=14a5ce6ffe09502d11fec79bf30aad06

here are some more websites:

http://internet-haganah.com/harchives/006545.html


I think the fact that there does not appear to be any denial of a) OBL's death and b) of the subsequent confirmation from Zwahiri do point to the credibility of the statements.

 

[Mick West]

I wasn't aware I posted one. SR posted a quote which quoted 'an Islamic forum' supposedly where Al Qaeda said OBL was killed in 2011... that came from Rita Katz and I posted a source watch link and extract.

I was referring to the mention of Islamist websites in your post:

It is not that substantive apparently

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/06/bin.laden.qaeda.comment/

(CNN) -- Al Qaeda released a statement on jihadist forums Friday confirming the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, according to SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors Islamist websites.

The development comes days after U.S. troops killed bin Laden in a raid on a compound in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad.

The statement, translated by SITE, lauded the late militant, threatened to take action against the United States, and urged Pakistanis to "rise up and revolt."

Content from External Source

 

[SR1419]

What like these links which were in the first link, are not 'quite substantive'.

There are lots more but I am not spoon feeding... It seems you want to present it as you would like it, not as it is.

"as it is" ??

No- an Opinion piece in the NYT written by a guy with credibility issues is NOT substantive evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Taheri

No- a report saying he was alive in July 2001 is not evidence he was killed in December 2001

No- Peter Bergen saying OBL was ill is not evidence he was killed or died.

The statement from the Iranian FM is not any more credible than a statement from Rumsfeld...

 

[Josh Heuer]

Well, since there actually IS a forum of supposed al Qaeda members closely linked to OBL claiming he was in fact killed in May 2011, I can't really dispute that. I can't/have no way to verify who these guys actually are on this forum, but I don't have a reason to believe it's NOT them, as claimed.

At this point...Dec 2001...may 2011...either way, he's dead. There's really nothing some schmuck like myself can do to prove otherwise so I'll go with the evidence at hand.

 

[Alchemist]

Have you guys noticed the funny resemblance the name Osama Bin Laden has to Obama Biden.. almost like a cosmic inside joke

 

[Grieves]

I wasn't thinking of PressTV, but since you mention them, they are a government funded anti-american propaganda machine who have people like Gordon Duff on as reputable sources. Al Jazeera is not so bad.

Al Jazeera isn't all that different from CNN/FOX/MSNBC. Not as weighted down in nonsense as some, but certainly a network with an agenda; or should that word be too alarming, a network with an opinion that influences much if not most of its reporting. The Saudis broadcast it, Qatar owns it. These are America's best 'friends' on the petrol playing field. I'm not saying everything that comes out of them is bunk by any stretch, but just like with almost anything you'll read/hear out of FOX or its kin, there's a layer of bullshit over a lot of what's put out, sometimes spread thin and sometimes spread thick.

 

[Cairenn]

I lost a lot of respect for Al Jazeera after they did a hack story on the condition of the Gulf of Mexico after the oil spill. It was biased and they even used a stock photo of some 'diseased/mutated shrimp' from SE Asia. Very poor journalism. Of course I saw a lot of that from a multitude of what should have been decent sources. If you only interview the activists, you will get a one sided view.

 

[xenon]

There is this from Bhutto, not exactly a stranger to the area. She could be asked about her statement, but she's dead. Aired on 2nd November 2007 Bhutto was assassinated on 27 December 2007

Benazir Bhutto 21 June 1953 – 27 December 2007) was a politician and stateswoman who served as the 11th Prime Minister of Pakistan in two non-consecutive terms from November 1988 until October 1990, and 1993 until her final dismissal on November 1996. She was the eldest daughter of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, a former prime minister of Pakistan and the founder of the Pakistan People's Party (PPP), which she led. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto#Assassination​

Benazir Bhutto in NOV. 2007 Says Osama Bin Laden murdered. BBC edits clip.




The Locals testify:
(Now you could say they don't know what they are talking about but wouldn't that sound silly, coming from an American)

Osama Raid A Fake


Edit to add another local account from Al Jazeera:

 

[xenon]

Any translators? This may be the video Dr. Paul Craig Roberts talks about up in post #13.



Uploaded on May 11, 2011

true story behind America's operation on Osama bin laden's compound told by an eye witness!
English translation in brief: He said he saw only 2 helicopters. In start he saw only 1 helicopter from which 10 - 12 people landed on osama's compound!

Later on 1 helicopter went back. He also said that the people in that operation were speaking pushto language ( a language which is spoken by some people in Pakistan specially in peshawar )
during operation he heard a lot noise firing etc. Then he saw the helicopter going back with the people, suddenly explosion occured in helicopter killing all people in it. Which means there were 2 helicopters one was there and second went back and was rounding on a mountain. He also said there was one helicopter which was completely destroyed so how America's claim that they got osama and has taken his body???

all the people in helicopter were killed! after operation he and some local people went there and saw broken hands, isolated heads etc.
after like half hour military and police came and didn't allow anyone to came closer. He was saying i don't know whether osama was there or not but i am surprised to see that helicopter was destroyed because only one helicopter landed then how America has taken the body of osama??
now thats the real story behind the US operation in killing Osama which gives rise to several questions, and thats the real reason of Americans not to show photographs of Osama.
​

 

[Pete Tar]

...

now thats the real story behind the US operation in killing Osama which gives rise to several questions, and thats the real reason of Americans not to show photographs of Osama.
​

What makes you believe it's the 'real' story? It's a story. Until significant details can be verified, it's just that. Certainly of interest, but you can't claim its definitively the real story without more evidence.

 

[xenon]

What makes you believe it's the 'real' story? It's a story. Until significant details can be verified, it's just that. Certainly of interest, but you can't claim its definitively the real story without more evidence.

Those are not my words. I'm not "claiming" anything. That's why I asked "Any Translators?"
That text is from the youtube description.

youtube dot com/watch?v=7NxGdProW-k

Did you get a chance to see the English speaking witnesses?

 

[Pete Tar]

Those are not my words. I'm not "claiming" anything. That's why I asked "Any Translators?"
That text is from the youtube description.

youtube dot com/watch?v=7NxGdProW-k

Did you get a chance to see the English speaking witnesses?

Ah sorry.
And no i'm just going on the transcription as I don't watch videos.

Well here's an explanation for a helicopter explosion, but it contradicts it being in the air at the time...

The raid was scheduled for a time with little moonlight so the helicopters could enter Pakistan "low to the ground and undetected".[75] The helicopters used hilly terrain and nap-of-the-earth techniques to reach the compound without appearing on radar and alerting the Pakistani military. The flight from Jalalabad to Abbottabad took about 90 minutes.[50]

According to the mission plan, the first helicopter would hover over the compound's yard while its full team of SEALs fast-roped to the ground. At the same time, the second helicopter would fly to the northeast corner of the compound and deploy the interpreter, the dog and handler, and four SEALs to secure the perimeter. The team in the courtyard was to enter the house from the ground floor.[50][76]

As they hovered above the target, however, the first helicopter experienced a hazardous airflow condition known as a vortex ring state. This was aggravated by higher than expected air temperature ("a so-called 'hot and high' environment"[50][69]) and the high compound walls, which stopped the rotor downwash from diffusing.[69][77][78] The helicopter's tail grazed one of the compound's walls,[62] damaging its tail rotor,[79] and the helicopter rolled onto its side.[22] The pilot quickly buried the aircraft's nose to keep it from tipping over.[65] None of the SEALs, crew and pilots on the helicopter were seriously injured in the soft crash landing, which ended with it pitched at a 45-degree angle resting against the wall.[50]
...
Since the helicopter that had made the emergency landing was damaged and unable to fly the team out, it was destroyed to safeguard its classified equipment, including an apparent stealth capability.[73] The pilot smashed "the instrument panel, the radio, and the other classified fixtures inside the cockpit," and the SEALs "[packed] the helicopter with explosives and [blew] it up". Since the SEAL team was reduced to one operational helicopter, one of the two Chinooks held in reserve was dispatched to carry part of the team and bin Laden's body out of Pakistan.[34][50][52][99]

Content from External Source

 

[MikeC]

Strictly speaking "hovering" IS "in the air"

Vortex ring state is one of those complex situation that is not very common and really only fully explained by physics. And as such I suspect people who do not believe "the official story" will not find it convincing because they probably do not or cannot understand it, it appears to be a "convenient excuse" or similar.

 

[Pete Tar]

But it didn't explode while hovering, just made a very ungraceful landing - it was deliberately destroyed after, on the ground.

 

[MikeC]

True - my mistake sorry

 

[Soulfly]

Strictly speaking "hovering" IS "in the air" .

Strictly speaking you're always hovering, even when sitting in your chair.