Is Sean Kirkpatrick Leaving AARO? [Yes]

[DavidB66]

Twitter/X today is awash with gleeful posts from UFO enthusiasts claiming that Sean Kirkpatrick will be fired (or 'persuaded' to resign) as head of AARO by the end of this year. It is said that four possible replacements for Kirkpatrick have already been interviewed by the Pentagon.

These claims all seem to stem directly or indirectly from a report in the Mail Online, which in turn is based mainly on a briefing to the Mail by an unnamed ex-Pentagon official. The alleged reason for his dismissal/resignation is criticism of 'false statements' by Kirkpatrick about David Grusch, and distrust of Kirkpatrick by other potential 'whistleblowers'. The Mail report is here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...s-accuse-lying-public-ignoring-witnesses.html

Article:

The Pentagon's UFO chief will resign by year's end — amid a wave of complaints accusing him of making false statements about UFO whistleblowers and fostering an 'atmosphere of disinterest,' DailyMail.com understands.

'Four major candidates' have been interviewed to replace the current director of the Pentagon's UFO office, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, following months of heated public sparring between the former CIA physicist, UFO whistleblowers and activists.

The Pentagon appears to have already 'made the decision' on Kirkpatrick's unnamed successor, according to one former Pentagon official with past involvement in related UFO investigation programs, who spoke with the DailyMail.com.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12703835/Pentagon-UFO-chief-AARO-Kirkpatrick-REPLACED-whistleblowers-accuse-lying-public-ignoring-witnesses.html

The ex-Pentagon official

with past involvement in related UFO investigation programs

sounds suspiciously like Lue Elizondo, though I suppose others might meet this description.

Given the unreliability of the sources I would take this all with a pinch of salt, but it would be a pity if either Kirkpatrick or the Pentagon caved in to mob rule.

 

[Mick West]

Article:

The Mail's former intelligence official — who has intimate knowledge of the military's ever-evolving UFO/UAP investigation portfolio — cautioned against drawing a direct line between these controversies and any plans for Kirkpatrick's departure, however.

'Sean has directly told folks he is leaving by the end of the year,' this former intelligence official told the DailyMail.com, under the condition of anonymity.

'I think it's completely a planned departure, he probably gave them a timeline when he took the job,' according to this source, citing geographical stress on Dr. Kirpatrick's family life.

'I am sure he's ready to go. I wouldn't read into it any more than that, honestly.'

The source added that he has heard AARO's first and current director would be moving on to a position with Oak Ridge National Laboratory — which briefly hosted the kernel of an apparent staff bio for Kirkpatrick before it mysteriously disappeared.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12703835/Pentagon-UFO-chief-AARO-Kirkpatrick-REPLACED-whistleblowers-accuse-lying-public-ignoring-witnesses.html

It really sounds like he planned to leave all along, for personal reasons (i.e. a long commute). But having a rather thankless task probably didn't help.

He wasn't perfect, but did seem to be making progress in solving cases and collating useful information. If he does leave and is replaced by someone like Stratton then that would be a step backward.

 

[Nemon]

The replacement of the position could also become interesting and revealing as with the foundation AARO and Kirkpatrick were delivered as a package. Now it could become either between the lines or explicitly more clear and transparent what intention the DoD pursues with this authority and its management and where it positions itself — at least officially — in the current situation, which is actually mainly driven by the US UFO industry.

 

[Mendel]

Let's hope Kirkpatrick picked his successor.

 

[Duke]

Dr. Sean M. Kirkpatrick
Director, All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO)
Dr. Kirkpatrick was asked by USD(I&S) to stand-up and lead AARO in early 2022. Known as Dr. K to his staff and
team, he brings over two decades of experience and a significant depth of expertise in scientific and technical
intelligence (S&TI), S&TI and space policy, research and development, acquisitions, and operations, specializing
in space/counterspace mission areas.
Dr. Kirkpatrick was born in Columbus, GA to an Army family. He grew up in the Atlanta area, where he attended
the University of Georgia as an undergraduate, to study physics. Dr. Kirkpatrick finished his Ph.D. work in
nonlinear and nonequilibrium phonon dynamics of rare earth doped fluoride crystals also at the University of
Georgia, and is currently an adjunct professor at UGA.
Dr. Kirkpatrick began his career in Defense and Intelligence related science and technology immediately out of
graduate school. After receiving his Ph.D. in Physics in 1995, he subsequently took a postdoctoral position at the
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, investigating laser-induced molecular vibrations of high explosives
under an AFOSR program. In 1996, he was offered a National Research Council Fellowship at the U.S. Naval
Research Laboratory in Washington D.C. investigating novel solid-state lasers for the Department of the Navy. In
1997, he was recruited by the Air Force Research Laboratory to build an Ultrafast Laser Physics Lab to investigate
nonlinear optics, novel ultrafast spectroscopic methods, and nonlinear micro/nano-fabrication techniques for
the Air Force. In 2003 he was offered a program manager position in the National Reconnaissance Office, and
converted to CIA in 2005. In 2007, he was assigned as Chief Technology Officer in a joint CIA-DIA program office,
where he later became division chief as a DIA officer. In 2010 he was asked to serve as the space control portfolio
manager for the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, Space and Intelligence, Office of the Secretary ofDefense.
In 2012 he returned to DIA, and served as the Defense Intelligence Officer for Scientific and Technical
Intelligence, serving as the Department of Defense's counterpart to the National Intelligence Manager for
Science and Technology until 2016. Towards the end of his tenure as DIO/S&TI, Dr. Kirkpatrick served on special
assignment to the Principal Deputy Director National Intelligence leading the Intelligence Community's support
to the Joint Interagency Combined Space Operations Center.
From 2016 to his current assignment, Dr. Kirkpatrick served in a variety of no-fail roles including Deputy Director of
Intelligence, US Strategic Command; Director, National Security Strategy, National Security Council; Deputy
Director of Intelligence and the DNI Representative for USSPACECOM. The USSPACECOM Intelligence Enterprise
was the fifth organization he has been the IC lead for establishment. His most recent assignment was as Chief
Scientist at DIA's Missile and Space Intelligence Center.
Dr. Kirkpatrick is the recipient of several scientific and intelligence awards. These include the National
Intelligence Exceptional Achievement Medal, four National Intelligence Collaboration medallions, the NRO
Innovation and Achievement Award, the Cleary Award for Scientific Excellence, and the DIA Director's Award for
Excellence. Dr. Kirkpatrick holds 2 open patents and has contributed to several scientific books on nonlinear
phenomena as well as written multiple strategies for the National and Defense Intelligence Communities. He
was appointed to the Senior Service in 2012.

https://media.defense.gov/2022/Jul/20/2003039076/-1/-1/1/DR-SEAN-M-KIRKPATRICK-BIOGRAPHY.PDF

So looking at his official biography, he might simply be retiring. If he retires at the end of this calendar year, he'll have been in government service for 26-27 years. He's been an SES (Senior Executive Service), the civilian equivalent of a general officer, for over ten years and is probably topped out straight salary wise. His retirement pay would be in excess of $100K/year immediately, and he already has a side gig as a Physics professor at his alma mater, UGa.

Maybe he's just had enough. I got to that point with a few more years of service and a few years older than Dr Kirkpatrick. And yes, I believe the UFO crowd would gleefully take credit for his departure.

 

[Nemon]

Maybe he's just had enough.

After a career behind the scenes, he might be uncomfortable being in the spotlight and being confronted with dubious dealings. He may have developed a thick skin throughout his career when it comes to internal squabbles. But now having to deal publicly with a branch of propagandists may cross a line for him and he says: I don't need that anymore. I'm also thinking, for example, of his somewhat thin-skinned statement on Linked In.

 

[Landru]

Dr. Sean M. Kirkpatrick
Director, All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO)
Dr. Kirkpatrick was asked by USD(I&S) to stand-up and lead AARO in early 2022. Known as Dr. K to his staff and
team, he brings over two decades of experience and a significant depth of expertise in scientific and technical
intelligence (S&TI), S&TI and space policy, research and development, acquisitions, and operations, specializing
in space/counterspace mission areas.
Dr. Kirkpatrick was born in Columbus, GA to an Army family. He grew up in the Atlanta area, where he attended
the University of Georgia as an undergraduate, to study physics. Dr. Kirkpatrick finished his Ph.D. work in
nonlinear and nonequilibrium phonon dynamics of rare earth doped fluoride crystals also at the University of
Georgia, and is currently an adjunct professor at UGA.
Dr. Kirkpatrick began his career in Defense and Intelligence related science and technology immediately out of
graduate school. After receiving his Ph.D. in Physics in 1995, he subsequently took a postdoctoral position at the
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, investigating laser-induced molecular vibrations of high explosives
under an AFOSR program. In 1996, he was offered a National Research Council Fellowship at the U.S. Naval
Research Laboratory in Washington D.C. investigating novel solid-state lasers for the Department of the Navy. In
1997, he was recruited by the Air Force Research Laboratory to build an Ultrafast Laser Physics Lab to investigate
nonlinear optics, novel ultrafast spectroscopic methods, and nonlinear micro/nano-fabrication techniques for
the Air Force. In 2003 he was offered a program manager position in the National Reconnaissance Office, and
converted to CIA in 2005. In 2007, he was assigned as Chief Technology Officer in a joint CIA-DIA program office,
where he later became division chief as a DIA officer. In 2010 he was asked to serve as the space control portfolio
manager for the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, Space and Intelligence, Office of the Secretary ofDefense.
In 2012 he returned to DIA, and served as the Defense Intelligence Officer for Scientific and Technical
Intelligence, serving as the Department of Defense's counterpart to the National Intelligence Manager for
Science and Technology until 2016. Towards the end of his tenure as DIO/S&TI, Dr. Kirkpatrick served on special
assignment to the Principal Deputy Director National Intelligence leading the Intelligence Community's support
to the Joint Interagency Combined Space Operations Center.
From 2016 to his current assignment, Dr. Kirkpatrick served in a variety of no-fail roles including Deputy Director of
Intelligence, US Strategic Command; Director, National Security Strategy, National Security Council; Deputy
Director of Intelligence and the DNI Representative for USSPACECOM. The USSPACECOM Intelligence Enterprise
was the fifth organization he has been the IC lead for establishment. His most recent assignment was as Chief
Scientist at DIA's Missile and Space Intelligence Center.
Dr. Kirkpatrick is the recipient of several scientific and intelligence awards. These include the National
Intelligence Exceptional Achievement Medal, four National Intelligence Collaboration medallions, the NRO
Innovation and Achievement Award, the Cleary Award for Scientific Excellence, and the DIA Director's Award for
Excellence. Dr. Kirkpatrick holds 2 open patents and has contributed to several scientific books on nonlinear
phenomena as well as written multiple strategies for the National and Defense Intelligence Communities. He
was appointed to the Senior Service in 2012.

https://media.defense.gov/2022/Jul/20/2003039076/-1/-1/1/DR-SEAN-M-KIRKPATRICK-BIOGRAPHY.PDF

So looking at his official biography, he might simply be retiring. If he retires at the end of this calendar year, he'll have been in government service for 26-27 years. He's been an SES (Senior Executive Service), the civilian equivalent of a general officer, for over ten years and is probably topped out straight salary wise. His retirement pay would be in excess of $100K/year immediately, and he already has a side gig as a Physics professor at his alma mater, UGa.

Maybe he's just had enough. I got to that point with a few more years of service and a few years older than Dr Kirkpatrick. And yes, I believe the UFO crowd would gleefully take credit for his departure.

As someone who retired last year from Government service I can tell you that doing so at the end of the calendar year is quite popular so you get max payout on what would otherwise be use-or-lose leave (vacation).

 

[Mick West]

Article:

The head of the Pentagon office responsible for investigating UFOs is stepping down from his post in December, he said in an exclusive interview Tuesday.

Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, is retiring from the federal government after nearly 18 months on the job. He deferred his planned retirement last year to take on the job atop AARO and now feels he has achieved his goals, he said.

"I'm ready to move on. I have accomplished everything I said I was going to do," Kirkpatrick said, adding that he still wants to finish a few tasks, including wrapping up the first volume of a historical review of the unidentified anomalous phenomena issue, before leaving.

Kirkpatrick's deputy, Tim Phillips, will lead the office in an acting role until the Pentagon hires a permanent replacement, Kirkpatrick said.

Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/07/pentagon-ufo-boss-00125883

 

[AllTheQuestionsToday]

Lets hope the new permanent AARO head will be someone willing to follow all data to whatever pleasant or unpleasant outcomes, no matter how many debunkers, skeptics or 'believers' they royally piss off.

No one has a right to be right, or comfortable, with knowledge.

 

[Mendel]

Lets hope the new permanent AARO head will be someone willing to follow all data to whatever pleasant or unpleasant outcomes, no matter how many debunkers, skeptics or 'believers' they royally piss off.

If they follow the data, they're not going to "piss off" debunkers or skeptics. That's what we want.

No one has a right to be right, or comfortable, with knowledge.

What does that even mean?

 

[Nemon]

I can't believe Politico doesn't mention where this interview took place. Did I miss the source? And how can it be that such a decision is not announced on an official channel - while an official statement by Kathleen Hicks is quoted. Maybe I should take a little more time to research, but that's missing right now.

Okay, that doesn't change the facts. Now there are memorable statements that perhaps need a little more context. He distances himself from the Loeb study, somewhat half-heartedly, but above all this statement is strange:

In fact, he believes "the best thing that could come out of this job is to prove that there are aliens" — because the alternative is a much bigger problem.
"If we don't prove it's aliens, then what we're finding is evidence of other people doing stuff in our backyard," he said. "And that's not good."

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/07/pentagon-ufo-boss-00125883

Another article reads:

Kirkpatrick's willingness to engage with controversial and speculative topics defined his leadership of AARO. He co-authored a draft academic paper suggesting that objects studied by AARO could be alien probes sent to study Earth. While the paper was posted online without permission, Kirkpatrick maintained that proving alien existence would be preferable to evidence of foreign entities operating in our airspace.

https://bnn.network/world/us/pentag...irement-amid-anomaly-resolution-achievements/

 

[Mendel]

In fact, he believes "the best thing that could come out of this job is to prove that there are aliens"

That's what makes him a suitable person for the job. The believer faction sees a man who wants to find aliens, and the skeptic faction sees a man who honestly looks for evidence and doesn't find any, so both sides are ok with him. And he can say strange things like that because he's at the end of his career.

 

[DavidB66]

Maybe now he'll be able to say what he really thinks about the whackadoodles. Or will he be bound by some sort of NDA not to disclose anything arising from his work for AARO? Not that that seems to have worried the likes of Elizondo.

 

[Nemon]

And he can say strange things like that because he's at the end of his career.

Who is going to have him first on their channel? Rogan? Coulthart? West?

 

[Mendel]

Who is going to have him first on their channel? Rogan? Coulthart? West?

What would you like to ask Kirkpatrick?

 

[Nemon]

What would you like to ask Kirkpatrick?

The more I think about it, the less that would actually be. At least little that is likely to make big headlines. Because I don't suspect any substantial elucidation of real secrets in his black box.
Cases that are still classified - we would certainly like to know more about them. But I wouldn't expect anything fundamentally different there than what we've already seen.
There is of course a large complex of issues in the network of people and institutions with their intentions and agendas, all in all the confusing mix that we are familiar with, which he could perhaps chat a little about. Who were the people who provided what information to Grusch and/or AARO?
Okay, it would still be enough for two hours and be interesting, but, as I said: no hope for sensational disclosures, milestones or game changers.

And you?

 

[Duke]

What would you like to ask Kirkpatrick?

I'd ask him about his decision to delay retirement to take the job. Did he expect the limelight and the grief he would get by taking the job? In hindsight, would he do it again? Did he face any pressure to leave the position? What advice would he give his successor? Does he plan to attend UFO conferences and do interviews? Would he be willing to take part in (for lack of a better term) a debate with Elizondo/Grusch/Mellon?

I faced a somewhat similar situation late in my DoD career. I had an opportunity to take an early retirement ("early out") with a financial incentive, but agreed to stay when a particularly interesting opportunity was dangled in front of me.

 

[Mick West]

The newly appointed deputy director, Tim Philips, will act as director if Kirkpatrick leaves before a new director is appointed (likely, based on how slow things move in Government).

He might end up being the replacement.

Article:

Department of Defense Announces the Deputy Director, All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office
Nov. 8, 2023 |
Timothy A. Phillips has arrived on assignment from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Title 50 U.S. Code § 3373 directs the Director of National Intelligence to appoint the deputy director of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office in coordination with the Secretary of Defense. A member of the Senior National Intelligence Service since 2006, Phillips brings to AARO his extensive experience in geospatial intelligence collection and mission management, expertise that is critical to enabling DOD and intelligence community components to successfully identify, characterize, and resolve unidentified anomalous phenomena.

Source: https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3583493/department-of-defense-announces-the-deputy-director-all-domain-anomaly-resoluti/

 

[Mendel]

And you?

I think I'd like to chat about science and pseudoscience in the UFO field, what their impact is, and ask him how he has guarded AARO against the latter, via personnel selection, processes, policies etc.

Trust in government would be another interesting topic that AARO has had to navigate (still does).

Government secrecy and compartmentalisation is something that AARO has had to contend with, but with its Congress-commissioned "need to know" regarding anything UAP has been set up to cut through that red tape in a way. Has that been successful, i.e. is AARO able to gain "big picture" insights, facilitated by its unique position? or not?

How did Kirkpatrick select his analysis groups?

 

[AllTheQuestionsToday]

What does that even mean?

In regard to:

No one has a right to be right, or comfortable, with knowledge.

Simply, I know people on all sides (skeptic, religious, UFO believer) who seem to get palpably upset and anxious when confronted by hypotheticals of being wrong. The closest analogy is in the Shellenberger and Shermer interview. At some point Shellenberger asks Shermer some hypothetical along the lines of "What's your red line to say, yes, NHI are real, and I was wrong in hindsight," or something to that effect.

Shermer is normally extremely composed but you could feel his getting anxious by the question. There are people on here I have seen that have said how uncomfortable the idea of NHI not being real or NHI being real made them. I think even Mick West once said in some interview that the idea scared him as a child and still does, but I may be misremembering.

Someone dumps ALL the past century of US government secrets and it turns out without ambiguity that 100% of what we have "seen" in the sky is either natural stuff that was covered up as a utility in propaganda/cold war stuff, or secret US military/IC tech even back to the 1930s/40s, or equivalent private party secret tech. Nothing extraterrestrial, extradimensional, extratemporal or whatever else. The "believer" is crushed.

The 'feelings' of the believer are irrelevant. Their comfort is irrelevant.

NHI mass reveal themselves for reals and we are sliding into a Star Trek reality in decades: it was all real, all covered up, and we were never alone. The "aliens" had and have nothing to do with our religions. We naturally evolved. We made up all our Sky People stuff like Jesus, Yahweh, Thor, etc. ourselves, so for the religious, it stands if they want it. The "skeptic" is crushed.

The 'feelings' of the skeptic are irrelevant. Their comfort is irrelevant.

NHI mass reveal again, but irrefutable damning incontrovertible proof that they either ARE the gods of yore, they "designed" us with either science or Woo Spiritual Space Magic, or we're dumb primates that went full cargo cult on a global scale for millennia. The "religious man" is crushed.

The 'feelings' of the religious and skeptic are irrelevant. Their comfort is irrelevant.

That's basically what I meant: damn the torpedos, advance society and species to whatever end turns out to be 'real' when ALL the cards are TRULY laid on the table for ALL to see.

 

[Mick West]

I think even Mick West once said in some interview that the idea scared him as a child and still does, but I may be misremembering.

I was scared of monsters with clawed hands abducting me in the darkness when I was a child.

That was over 40 years ago.

I'd love there to be evidence of alien life, and I think pretty much all science-minded people, including Shermer, and Kirkpatrick, would like that too.

 

[FatPhil]

I'd love there to be evidence of alien life, and I think pretty much all science-minded people, including Shermer, and Kirkpatrick, would like that too.

I'm not sure I can salute that flagpole. Because that's like finding a pentium chip wired into the heart of the antikythera mechanism - it just creates confusion. Personally I love things that clear up confusion in preference to things that create more confusion.

 

[DavidB66]

I'd love there to be evidence of alien life, and I think pretty much all science-minded people, including Shermer, and Kirkpatrick, would like that too.

Not so sure about that. Are they touchy-feely tree-hugging aliens or Dalek-type aliens? The prudential principle suggests we should assume the latter. Why would any alien civilisation put much effort into exploring and/or colonising the universe? Disinterested curiosity is not much of a motive. Whereas an insane will-to-power fits the bill. And even if only a small proportion of aliens have that motive, they are the ones who are most likely to prevail.

 

[Ann K]

I'd love there to be evidence of alien life, and I think pretty much all science-minded people, including Shermer, and Kirkpatrick, would like that too.

Emphasis on the word "evidence". We see people who want there to be alien life to the extent that they're willing to bypass the need for serious evidence, and that's not a trap that I like to see people fall into.

 

[MapperGuy]

Not so sure about that. Are they touchy-feely tree-hugging aliens or Dalek-type aliens? The prudential principle suggests we should assume the latter. Why would any alien civilisation put much effort into exploring and/or colonising the universe? Disinterested curiosity is not much of a motive. Whereas an insane will-to-power fits the bill. And even if only a small proportion of aliens have that motive, they are the ones who are most likely to prevail.

But would either type of alien be playing the decades long game of hide-and-seek that must be going on? (if they are here)

Check out that find old 1951 movie "The Day The Earth Stood Still". That is how I would expect any arriving aliens to behave, just fly on down and say "Hi". What reason would they have for just teasing their presence and not making a spectacular grand entrance?

No interstellar traveling aliens are going to have anything to fear from humans and our 'primitive' technology. If they just wanted to study us for a while they would surely have the technology to do so without our ever being aware. But no, their flying saucers are visible and seemingly crash a lot, not what I would expect from interstellar travelers.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Not so sure about that. Are they touchy-feely tree-hugging aliens or Dalek-type aliens? The prudential principle suggests we should assume the latter. Why would any alien civilisation put much effort into exploring and/or colonising the universe? Disinterested curiosity is not much of a motive. Whereas an insane will-to-power fits the bill. And even if only a small proportion of aliens have that motive, they are the ones who are most likely to prevail.

I have some thoughts, but don't' want to go off topic. Maybe a thread on "What would alien be like?" is more appropriate.

 

[Mendel]

Simply, I know people on all sides (skeptic, religious, UFO believer) who seem to get palpably upset and anxious when confronted by hypotheticals of being wrong.

"No one has a right to be right, or comfortable, with knowledge."
I submit that if I'm wrong, what I had wasn't knowledge in the first place.

the idea of NHI not being real

"NHI being real" = existence of extraterrestrial civilisations somewhere in space
"NHI visitation being real" = existence of flying saucers (or perhaps unmanned probes)
evidence of NHI visitation = facts that can only be explained by alien visits. My knowledge of the field is such that I believe this evidence does not exist—can't be certain because that'd be proving a negative.
"breaking the laws of physics" = misinterpreted observations. There's no reason to believe that NIHs can break the laws of physics in domains that we have ample experience with, such as moving in air.

 

[Nemon]

I think I'd like to chat about science and pseudoscience in the UFO field, what their impact is, and ask him how he has guarded AARO against the latter, via personnel selection, processes, policies etc.

Trust in government would be another interesting topic that AARO has had to navigate (still does).

Government secrecy and compartmentalisation is something that AARO has had to contend with, but with its Congress-commissioned "need to know" regarding anything UAP has been set up to cut through that red tape in a way. Has that been successful, i.e. is AARO able to gain "big picture" insights, facilitated by its unique position? or not?

How did Kirkpatrick select his analysis groups?

You have mentioned some good approaches.

 

[DavidB66]

But would either type of alien be playing the decades long game of hide-and-seek that must be going on? (if they are here)

I agree. I took it for granted that at least 99.99% of UFO reports are nonsense! I was just musing on whether we should welcome the existence of alien life or not. I think that when the conquistadors arrived in Mexico some of the inhabitants initially welcomed them as gods. That didn't end well.

 

[Mendel]

I agree. I took it for granted that at least 99.99% of UFO reports are nonsense! I was just musing on whether we should welcome the existence of alien life or not. I think that when the conquistadors arrived in Mexico some of the inhabitants initially welcomed them as gods. That didn't end well.

Wouldn't have ended well either way, imho.

I'm surprised there isn't more of a split between "the ETs will save us" and "ETs are a threat" among the UFO believers.

 

[jarlrmai]

Wouldn't have ended well either way, imho.

I'm surprised there isn't more of a split between "the ETs will save us" and "ETs are a threat" among the UFO believers.

One of the features of fringe beliefs is the uncritical acceptance of other related fringe beliefs and the glossing over of mutually exclusive distinctions in specifics.

 

[JMartJr]

I think that when the conquistadors arrived in Mexico some of the inhabitants initially welcomed them as gods. That didn't end well.

Did it end better for those who welcomed them as gods? (just planning my strategy here. I, for one, welcome our alien overlords...)

 

[Mick West]

Not so sure about that. Are they touchy-feely tree-hugging aliens or Dalek-type aliens?

I've love to see "evidence of alien life." That's very likely going to be at a distance. The positive or negative effects of alien visitors very much depends on what they intend to do (or have done). Any type of interaction would likely be hugely disruptive, leading to interesting times.

 

[NorCal Dave]

I think that when the conquistadors arrived in Mexico some of the inhabitants initially welcomed them as gods. That didn't end well.

Again, not wanting to get off topic, but that's largely a myth. The various groups in Mexico recognized the Spanish for what they were, men.

 

[Nemon]

Again, not wanting to get off topic, but that's largely a myth. The various groups in Mexico recognized the Spanish for what they were, men.

He was saying "I think that some … initially welcomed"
You could hardly have put more into perspective here ;-)

 

[Ann K]

Kirkpatrick's Politico interview with Lara Seligman included some interesting discussion about the UFO/alien controversies. My bolding:

A physicist who spent decades working in the defense-intelligence arena, he's open to the possibility that we're not alone in the universe, having co-authored a hotly-debated paper about alien motherships. But his bottom line is to focus on the science.

"If you are talking with NASA or the European Space Agency, and you're talking about looking for life out in the universe, it is a very objective, very scientifically sound discussion and discourse," he said, describing the public discourse. "As that discussion gets closer to the solar system, somewhere around Mars, it turns into science fiction. And then as you get even closer to Earth, and you cross into Earth's atmosphere, it becomes conspiracy theory."
.........
"The whistleblowers are an interesting bit. We've had greater than 30 people now come in to talk to us. We have investigated every single one of them, every single story, every lead that provided any substantive evidence for us to go after.

David Grusch is a unique instance in that he has refused to come and share any of that information. We still can't get him to come in. I've got five different people who have gone to talk to him to get him to come in. And the answers have always been everything from "We're not cleared" to "It would jeopardize his whistleblower protections" to "Why can't we just go get the information that he shared from the IG?" It's every excuse that I have heard, why not to come in. And that's been a challenge because now here we are, we're about to put out Volume One of the historical review, which I believe captures most all of the people that he's spoken with, but I can't say that 100 percent because I can't hear what he thinks he has. If he has evidence, I need to know what that is."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/12/sean-kirkpatrick-ufos-pentagon-00126214

(The historical review to which he refers is required by law.)

 

[MapperGuy]

Kirkpatrick's Politico interview with Lara Seligman included some interesting discussion about the UFO/alien controversies. My bolding:

A physicist who spent decades working in the defense-intelligence arena, he's open to the possibility that we're not alone in the universe, having co-authored a hotly-debated paper about alien motherships. But his bottom line is to focus on the science.

"If you are talking with NASA or the European Space Agency, and you're talking about looking for life out in the universe, it is a very objective, very scientifically sound discussion and discourse," he said, describing the public discourse. "As that discussion gets closer to the solar system, somewhere around Mars, it turns into science fiction. And then as you get even closer to Earth, and you cross into Earth's atmosphere, it becomes conspiracy theory."
.........
"The whistleblowers are an interesting bit. We've had greater than 30 people now come in to talk to us. We have investigated every single one of them, every single story, every lead that provided any substantive evidence for us to go after.

David Grusch is a unique instance in that he has refused to come and share any of that information. We still can't get him to come in. I've got five different people who have gone to talk to him to get him to come in. And the answers have always been everything from "We're not cleared" to "It would jeopardize his whistleblower protections" to "Why can't we just go get the information that he shared from the IG?" It's every excuse that I have heard, why not to come in. And that's been a challenge because now here we are, we're about to put out Volume One of the historical review, which I believe captures most all of the people that he's spoken with, but I can't say that 100 percent because I can't hear what he thinks he has. If he has evidence, I need to know what that is."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/12/sean-kirkpatrick-ufos-pentagon-00126214

(The historical review to which he refers is required by law.)

i would strongly urge everyone to read the Politico.com article linked above. Very interesting reading. Mr. Kirkpatrick seems to have done a good job and wants to move on to more relevant things.

If I was trying to summarize the tone of it all I would say: "Sorry folks, nobody here but us humans".

His comment about David Grusch seems to suggest he is not expecting much if any further relevant information from him or the people he claims to have talked too. Perhaps upon further review they are a bit less confident of what they thought they knew. If they really "had the goods" they would be willing to risk indictments and "spill the beans", expecting friends in Congress to wrangle pardons for them from a friendly President.

The paper about 'alien motherships' also linked above is also worth reading. I am guessing Avi Leob posted it online early to take advantage of Mr. Kirkpatricks name currently being in the news. Mr. Leob is trying to do serious science, hopefully his project Galileo will continue along those lines..

 

[Nemon]

The paper about 'alien motherships' also linked above is also worth reading. I am guessing Avi Leob posted it online early to take advantage of Mr. Kirkpatricks name currently being in the news.

I rather think it was the other way around. Loeb knew at the very latest since his Oumuamua theses that he could make the headlines worldwide at any time. Kirkpatrick, on the other hand, was a nobody. If I remember correctly, it was also Kirkpatrick who pushed Loeb into this collaboration.

Mr. Leob is trying to do serious science

He keeps on trying

 

[Ravi]

I am a little lost with it all, can someone explain please why Kirkpatrick is so hated by the ufo community? Because that is what this community is very good at: hating.

 

[Mendel]

His comment about David Grusch seems to suggest he is not expecting much if any further relevant information from him or the people he claims to have talked too. Perhaps upon further review they are a bit less confident of what they thought they knew. If they really "had the goods" they would be willing to risk indictments and "spill the beans", expecting friends in Congress to wrangle pardons for them from a friendly President.

Kirkpatrick has made it very clear that nobody gets prosecuted for talking to AARO, and that AARO is cleared to listen to any UAP-related information there might be. There is no legal risk in talking to AARO, and Grusch's legal counsel should be able to confirm that for him.

There aren't any good reasons for Grusch not to talk to AARO.