1) I never indicated this video was anything but an example of perceived urgency . . .
2) I never indicated that geoengineering should be done . . . nor have I indicated there are not significant opposition or concerns not to engage in the project . . . Not unlike the detonation of the first hydrogen bombs . . . the fear was an unending chain reaction . . . funny thing they did it anyway . . . Guess what . . . Edward Teller was part of the decision . . . same people who are IMO . . . possibly In charge of the geoengineering decision !!!!
3) With the present state of publicly known research . . . I have indicated that if such a decision were made . . . the best and most likely strategy is stratospheric injection of sulfur compounds . . .
4) I have just presented a set of information which I think makes the process more believable . . . it is an exercise in speculation and probability . . .
http://www.scienceiq.com/Facts/AtomicAndHydrogenBombs.cfm
What probability would you assign it? 10%? 50%? 90%?
Let's say you and I make a bet. I bet that there's no covert geoengineering program currently operating. What are the lowest odds you would take for such a bet?
How do you expect to prove or disprove its existence . . .?
Wait 20 years.
Some interesting history about conspiracies and how long they last without absolute resolution . . .
The UnitedStates House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA)was established in 1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F.Kennedy and MartinLuther King, Jr. and the shooting of Governor George Wallace. The Committee investigated until1978, and in 1979 issued its final report, concluding that President John F.Kennedy was very likely assassinated as a result of aconspiracy.However, the committee noted that it believed that the conspiracy did notinclude the governments of the Soviet Union orCuba.It also stated it did not believe the conspiracy was organized by anyorganized crime group, nor any anti-Castro group, but that it could not rule outindividual members of any of those groups acting together.
The House SelectCommittee on Assassinations suffered from being conducted mostly in secret, andthen issuing a public report with much of its evidence sealed for 50 yearsunder Congressional rules.[1]In 1992, Congress passed legislationto collect and open up all the evidence relating to Kennedy's death, andcreated theAssassinationRecords Review Board to further that goal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinat ions
Not my calculations . . . was research from a geoengineering paper . . .
fly a few aircraft at about $1.25 Billion 2008 dollars per year ( according to . . .lines 138 - lines 143 and graph on line 528 inhttp://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/GRLreview2.pdfaccording to this paper the required amount of sulfur aerosol can be delivered easily by dedicated flights by only [. . . line 528] using nine (9) KC 10 Extenders or equivalent aircraft, each flying three (3) flights a day, 250 days per year. . . . 27 flights per day).
That just means there was at least one other person involved. What conspiracies on the scale you are suggesting (if there even are any) have lasted?
I would suggest a 747 retrofitt . . .OK, I see the reference, but they are counting the fuel consumed by the KC10 as part of the payload. The actual cargo payload is 85 tons.
Exactly - aircraft equipment for "spraying stuff" was patented at least as far ago as the 1920's - so people have been capable of thinking of it for at least that long.
"Spraying stuff" from aircraft is, technically speaking, quite simple and trivial to do (if you don't count getting approval for the design changes required!!)
And pointing out hte obvious that it CAN be done comes with a big "Yeah...and??"
O.K. you tell me what else can be done in short order . . . in weeks or months to mitigate global warming . . . ? Something that the infrastructure is almost completely there and ready . . . ???
That it has long been recognized by the world that large scale environmental manipulation was not only technically possible but was going to be attempted . . . and without notification or approval by the people of the world . . . so why is it so difficult to suspect geoengineering efforts have not already been attempted . . . ???I do not know that anything like that exists.
Indeed I am confused by the question - why do you think I would know of somethign along those lines??
And yes the UN convention banning weather modification as a weapon of war is well known to many - if not to you. Did you mean to make some point by posting it??
That it has long been recognized by the world that large scale environmental manipulation was not only technically possible but was going to be attempted . . . and without notification or approval by the people of the world . . .
exists in the first place? What are you trying to discover, or what point are you trying to make???O.K. you tell me what else can be done in short order . . . in weeks or months to mitigate global warming . . . ? Something that the infrastructure is almost completely there and ready . . . ???
Are you saying you don't think global warming exists or at least it doesn't need mitigation???It says nothing of the sort. It says that "the people of the world" (via the UN) took notice of what could be done, what might possibly be done, and decided it would be better if it were not done - at least in war time. It is completely agnostic (says nothing about) what was "going to be attempted", nor whether that was going to be notified or approved by anyone in particular.
I have no problem with people suspecting they have occurred.
But suspicion that they might have occurred is not the same as knowing they have occurred.
Suspicion should be investigated - and having been investigated and no credible evidence found, it should be set aside.
That is not to say that you should not be suspicious that someone MAY do it at some time - that is another question entirely.
However it is irrational to suspect something, investigate it, find no evidence, and then claim that the lack of evidence proves that something is happening - which is pretty much what het whole geo-engineering & chemtrail argument does.
And you did not address my question about why you think I would think that
exists in the first place? What are you trying to discover, or what point are you trying to make???
O.K. you tell me what else can be done in short order . . . in weeks or months to mitigate global warming . . . ? Something that the infrastructure is almost completely there and ready . . . ???
huh??
Could you please stick to and explain your own original question - which was something about what can be done in short order to combat global warming - your exact words were:
Like I said - I know of nothing that fits your criteria - why do you think I would know something about it??
O.K. you tell me what else can be done in short order . . . in weeks or months to mitigate global warming . . . ? Something that the infrastructure is almost completely there and ready . . . ???
Well spraying something that acts exactly like water vapor at the altitude of commercial jet aviation wouldn't be among the options.
Considering that I only ever see the trails and clouds that chemtrail believers like to call "geoengineering" occurring in the troposphere when the weather dictates that those formations should occur certainly seems to indicate that "global warming mitigation" isn't occurring or being attempted at this point.
Do you have any evidence that aircraft capable of delivering Mt. Pinatubo type quantities atmospheric albedo increasing compounds to the stratosphere actually exist?
I don't see that the infrastructure to mimic a Mt. Pinatubo is "almost completely there and ready".
You were making the point that spraying from aircraft was no big deal and past history of such was no argument for the existence of an injection program . . .
my rhetorical question was meant to convey . . . so what, history be pitched . . . can you show me right now . . . any method other than stratospheric injection of sulfur that would be as effective on mitigating warming or more easily accomplished ????? And you can't . . . except causing a significant volcanic eruption . . .
Yes indeed....
Indeed ...and so what? That also is not evidence that it is being done right now.
O.K.
7) I submit . . . We can't . . . we can only speculate . . . assign probabilities and watch for indirect evidence, policy, or an outright confession . . .
Note background since 1960's.
Note effects of 20 million tons by Pinatubo.
Note transmission in 1998(chemtrails hoax started).
Note transmission 12 years later.
Note no decrease in transmission.
Note return to background since 1960's
This disproves all claims of Solar Radiation Geoengineering.
It ain't happening.
Capiche?
see the little squiggles in the inset, which have occurred since, forever....
THAT is "persistent variable"
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/44...e-there-is-an-Aerosol-Injection-Program/page7
------
1) Where is the trend from all that coal being burned in China. . . ????
2) Seems it takes 20 million Tons (20 Tg) to show a dramatic trend on the graph. . . ????
3) Where is the upward trend for all the success in North America and Europe on mitigation of ground source aerosols. . . ???? . . . could be something is unaccounted for . . . ?????
Note background since 1960's.
Note effects of 20 million tons by Pinatubo.
Note transmission in 1998(chemtrails hoax started).
Note transmission 12 years later.
Note no decrease in transmission.
Note return to background since 1960's
This disproves all claims of Solar Radiation Geoengineering.
It ain't happening.
Capiche?
see the little squiggles in the inset, which have occurred since, forever....
THAT is "persistent variable"
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/44...e-there-is-an-Aerosol-Injection-Program/page7
------
1) Where is the trend from all that coal being burned in China. . . ????
2) Seems it takes 20 million Tons (20 Tg) to show a dramatic trend on the graph. . . ????
3) Where is the upward trend for all the success in North America and Europe on mitigation of ground source aerosols. . . ???? . . . could be something is unaccounted for . . . ?????
Yes, you are correct . . . one would have to constantly monitor the natural and man made sulfur injections to know how much aerosol to inject on a continual basis through the covert program . . . one never knows how much sulfur an unexpected volcano might produce . . .Here is a flaw in your supposed possible plan. The effects of these volcanic eruptions are only temporary. So in order to permanently cool the planet you would need to continuously introduce aerosols into the stratosphere. Not just a one time yearly event like you are indicating.
By-the-way, the plan calls for 290 plus days of injection each year . . . continually . . .Here is a flaw in your supposed possible plan. The effects of these volcanic eruptions are only temporary. So in order to permanently cool the planet you would need to continuously introduce aerosols into the stratosphere. Not just a one time yearly event like you are indicating.
By-the-way, the plan calls for 290 plus days of injection each year . . . continually . . .
No the fall rate of the sulfur compound aerosols is between 1 to 2 years depending on initial particulate size and altitude injected into the stratosphere . . . after the desired concentration was reached within the first 12-24 months . . . one would just replace the aerosol lost to gravity, coagulation, precipitation (wet fall), dry fall, etc . . .Then your sulfur quantities you quoted earlier have just multiplied by infinity!!!
By-the-way, the plan calls for 290 plus days of injection each year . . . continually . . .
That`s a lot of flights. What if the runway is iced up/snowed in?
Does this significantly alter the program?
Will " they " have to put on extra flights once the runway is clear again? If so how many flights - and surely there might be a small gap which they can`t plug and this would throw a spanner in the works?
No the fall rate of the sulfur compound aerosols is between 1 to 2 years depending on initial particulate size and altitude injected into the stratosphere . . . after the desired concentration was reached within the first 12-24 months . . . one would just replace the aerosol lost to gravity, coagulation, precipitation (wet fall), dry fall, etc . . .