What if I told you unless you reduced the rate of global warming by one degree C within six months or 4.5 billion people would die . . . how would you do the mitigation then. . . .????Billzilla said:Thorium nuclear fission reactors. Much, much safer than uranium reactors and the half-life of the spent thorium is not something like a hundred thousand years like for uranium, but more like 300 years.Dense Plasma Fusion reactors. Not ready right now but they should be ready for commercial use in about a decade. (so about 120 months)Both those power supplies have zero emissions, can provide all the base load we would ever need without having to resort to any solar panels or windmills. Battery technology is hopefully getting close to being able to make a power cell that is vastly better than what we have, though I don't have any firm examples yet sorry. (maybe graphene-based ones) If they work as hoped, you will be able to have a car that can go the distance like a petrol-fuelled one. Aircraft are a bit more of a problem due to the endurance needed so I can't see kerosene-fulled jets being replaced any time soon - So you're going to have to put up with contrails painting lines in the sky, which is likely to happen more often as the climate changes.
George b said:Originally Posted by George B
O.K. you tell me what else can be done in short order . . . in weeks or months to mitigate global warming . . . ? Something that the infrastructure is almost completely there and ready . . . ???
??
MikeC said:I thought you were discussing the conspiracy that currently secretly sprays stuff in the atmosphere - not prospective plans that would almost certainly be public knowledge should they ever be implemented.
And where did "weeks or months" come into it?
This is just another attempt by you to shift the goalposts!
MikeC said:Not so.
There are ample areas where there is would be little or no contamination and evidence would be easy to directly attributable to some sort of programme - delivery of materials to air bases for example, provision of spraying equipment on aircraft, provisions of different grades of fuel to aircraft or airbases, briefing notes for pilots, mechanics, engineers, supply contracts, people who know about the programme (whistleblowers), various other sorts of documentation such as plans, discussions, etc.
Not at all . . . I am just trying to emphasize that the injection of Sulfur Compounds into the stratosphere is the only generally accepted method known to quickly deal with global warming . . . While not perfect, most geo-engineers have said as much. . . .so if we are in crisis and the authorities do not want to spook the herd. . . What would You do????
Why does NASA want to know what people see . . . ? Seems time-lapse Photography, remote video cameras, weather data, coupled with satellite images would be all they need . . . anyone for an answer . . . by the way the British Authorities have also requested assistance as well . . .
See video at 4.21 minutes . . .
Why does NASA want to know what people see . . . ? Seems time-lapse Photography, remote video cameras, weather data, coupled with satellite images would be all they need . . . anyone for an answer . . . by the way the British Authorities have also requested assistance as well . . .
Originally Posted by GeorgeB1) The system wherethe data is to be observed is in a totally open system, with an infinite number of contributing factors and contamination sources . . . thus no way to properly isolate factors to properly test them separately . . .they are all hidden in the soup or fog of other factors . . .
1) The people really looking are a very, very, small group of Chemtrail Advocates . . . no one else might . . .
2) Aircrews need not know anything . . .
3) Whistleblowers have come forward in several stories and have been completely ignored by the public media . . .
4) As far as keeping things under secrecy . . . have you heard of the CIA, MAFIA, Undercover agents, F117, Stealth Technology development, Skunk Works, Manhattan Project, and on and on and on . . .
What if I told you unless you reduced the rate of global warming by one degree C within six months or 4.5 billion people would die . . . how would you do the mitigation then. . . .????
What I would do is evaluate ALL the evidence and knowledge if that decision had to be made, not just that proposed by conspiracy believers, and not use hypothetical fantasy scenarios to try to justify a belief that there is a secret programme going on.
I'm done with you - you started fine - but are now just spamming drivel that is neither useful nor informative, and personally I've got you filed as troll.
It was a hypothetical. . . .I don't believe that is going to happen. . . Seems some scientists are more concerned than I am about global warming. . . .however, governments and militaries think in contingencies. . . .what ifs. . . They have staffs that do nothing but risk assessment and computer simulations. . . .I'd say that impressive claims require impressive proof.You could raise the temperature of the planet 10deg and there'd still be many hundreds of millions of people that would survive.
Noble said:3) BS! There are NO "chemtrail" whistle blowers...Only people who CLAIM to be...and who have convinced you they are. They are LIARS!
It was a hypothetical. . . .I don't believe that is going to happen. . . Seems some scientists are more concerned than I am about global warming. . . .however, governments and militaries think in contingencies. . . .what ifs. . . They have staffs that do nothing but risk assessment and computer simulations. . . .
Mick said:Can you really not see why this program would be useful? Come on George, you are an intelligent enough guy. What would be the use of hundreds of thousands of observations of contrail formation from thousands of points across the country, for several years?
Billzilla said:If you want a very real 'what if' - apologies for the thread drift - we really need to have a far better global asteroid detection and deflection network.
Statistically we will be hit by something big enough to wipe us all out pretty much any time, and we can currently do absolutely zero about it.
The Students' Cloud Observations On-Line (S'COOL) data are invaluable to the CERES project. Students from over 500 schools around the world collect data at close to the same time the CERES instrument is passing overhead. These observations are used as the "ground truth" to compare to the cloud data derived for CERES. The ground truth data are used throughout the validation process to help verify the cloud identification used by CERES. If there is a discrepancy in the two sets of data, the specifics of the data are analyzed to try to explain why there is not a perfect match. The reason for S'COOL is to help better understand all the data that are received from CERES and create a more solid, sound set of data for use in statistical studies.
3.6.5 S’COOL: Education Outreach and Cloud Validation
One of the more exciting new initiatives started by Lin Chambers and Dave Young of the
CERES team is to involve elementary and high school children in the CERES cloud validation
program. The basic concept is that schools sign on to the program, obtain basic training in
performing surface cloud observations (sky cover, type, altitude), they log onto the CERES web
site to get predicted satellite overpass times, the class conducts cloud observations at the time of
the TRMM, Terra or Aqua satellite overpass, and then they either fax or use the web to submit
their observations to the CERES S’COOL program (Students Cloud Observations OnLine). This
program already has over 600 schools participating in 45 different countries, on all continents.
This effort will continue to expand in the future, and provide not only educational outreach, but
also surface observations that CERES will compare to our satellite based retrievals. These are
expected to be particularily useful for clear-sky determination.
Noble, whistleblowers are almost always called liars or fear they will be called liars. . . . Now a hoax is different. . . You are saying all the Chemtrail informants who say they have inside information are hoaxes. . . Is that right?
See video at 4.21 minutes . . .
Why does NASA want to know what people see . . . ? Seems time-lapse Photography, remote video cameras, weather data, coupled with satellite images would be all they need . . . anyone for an answer . . . by the way the British Authorities have also requested assistance as well . . .
Noble, whistleblowers are almost always called liars or fear they will be called liars. . . . Now a hoax is different. . . You are saying all the Chemtrail informants who say they have inside information are hoaxes. . . Is that right?
Jay Reynolds said:Dr. Lin Chambers knows all about the chemtrails hoax.
You chemtrails believer people are laughing stocks at NASA, and have been for over a decade.
NASA scientists once were shocked that you people were drumming up such a hokey conspiracy theory, they saw it as a great failure to impart scientific knowledge, understanding of the principles of the scientific method, and critical thinking.
Nowadays, they realize how many idiots thrive by supposition, speculation, and suspicion, and how many other idiots follow along as if they had large rings in their noses.
Show me a genuine "whistleblower" who has actually brought out something confirmable, something with names, dates, documents, shipment numbers, aircraft tail numbers, anything that is actually useful.
Show me, George, even one, I'd like to see one.
really?
Its called empirical data and is a pretty standard tool for scientific research.
BTW- why do you call yourself a "chemtrail advocate"? It makes it seem as if you are in favor of a purposeful "spray" campaign.
Are you?
Also- can you please provide source material to the "whilsteblowers" you keep mentioning...
thanks!
To recap sofar what we have established in the last 15 days . . .
1) The rateof global warming has changed
We analyze five prominent time series of global temperature (over land and ocean) for their common time interval since 1979: three surface temperature records (from NASA/GISS, NOAA/NCDC and HadCRU) and two lower-troposphere (LT) temperature records based on satellite microwave sensors (from RSS and UAH). All five series show consistent global warming trends ranging from 0.014 to 0.018 K yr−1.
When the data are adjusted to remove the estimated impact of known factors on short-term temperature variations (El Niño/southern oscillation, volcanic aerosols and solar variability), the global warming signal becomes even more evident as noise is reduced. Lower-troposphere temperature responds more strongly to El Niño/southern oscillation and to volcanic forcing than surface temperature data. The adjusted data show warming at very similar rates to the unadjusted data, with smaller probable errors, and the warming rate is steady over the whole time interval. In all adjusted series, the two hottest years are 2009 and 2010.
MICK, I don't disagree that there were some sound looking data; however, I don't think this is the normal way scientifically verifiable data is normally collected . . . and most researchers would never use high school students . . .
George B said:MICK, I don't disagree that there were some sound looking data; however, I don't think this is the normal way scientifically verifiable data is normally collected . . . and most researchers would never use high school students . . ..
In my experience with published research one might use HS students as subjects of the research but never use them to collect or identify data used for such purpose. . . So is it suspicious to me. . . .Yes. . . The reasons as I implied above are the following:MICK said:Nobody said it was normal. But it does happen. And it produced good science.But you just said it was suspicious, implying it was part of some conspiracy.
Yes, MICK it has changed . . . if it had not been for what NOAA indicated below . . . the rate would have been higher . . . Yes, the direction of the global warming is trending in the same direction . . . but without the Aerosols highlighted by NOAA the rate of change would have been higher . . . so it is slower . . .
"has offset about a third of the current climate warming influence of carbon dioxide (CO2) change during the past decade"
While subject to much more instrumental uncertainty, Fig. 4 also suggests that the
underlying increase in the “background” aerosols from the
very low values indicated by observations around 1960 to the
higher levels observed around 2000 probably reduced the
global warming that would otherwise have occurred between
1960 and 2000 by about –0.05°C.