How do i deal with patent horders?(chemtrails)

lotek

Active Member
How do i deal with people who cant separate research from chemtrails? This group im dealing with thinks any evidence of research is evidence of spraying. the following is 'evidence' they have posted:

It seams obvious to me that we have patents for time machines and zombie control, but that doesnt mean we have an army of time zombies locked up on an army base somewhere... but saying that just offends them :[

Im not really prepared to argue this point with them, i was expecting more the normal debate but they feel that since there are companies and products to spray chemicals, that means chemtrails are real.

http://www.cio.noaa.gov/itmanagement/0025ren11.pdf

http://www.slideshare.net/kynize/un-weather-weapons-treaty

http://aircrap.org/evergreen-aviation-admits-to-chemtrail-contracts-with-usaf/33619/

http://www.geoengineers.com/

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com...ail-pilots-cause-near-mid-air-collisions.html

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN/3813875

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...x403/68400_10151236742475889_1372432589_n.jpg

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/17/us-geoengineers-spray-sun-balloon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q08qTXVS3eA&feature=youtu.be

http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043867/html/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJcfZH1euE


1619183 - March 1, 1927 - Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft

1631753 - June 7, 1927 - Electric Heater - Referenced in 3990987

1665267 - April 10, 1928 - Process of Producing Artificial Fogs

1892132 - December 27, 1932 - Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts

1928963 - October 3, 1933 - Electrical System And Method

1957075 - May 1, 1934 - Airplane Spray Equipment

2097581 - November 2, 1937 - Electric Stream Generator - Referenced in 3990987

2409201 - October 15, 1946 - Smoke Producing Mixture

2476171 - July 18, 1945 - Smoke Screen Generator

2480967 - September 6, 1949 - Aerial Discharge Device

2550324 - April 24, 1951 - Process For Controlling Weather

2510867 - October 9, 1951 - Method of Crystal Formation and Precipitation

2582678 - June 15, 1952 - Material Disseminating Apparatus For Airplanes

2591988 - April 8, 1952 - Production of TiO2 Pigments - Referenced in 3899144

2614083 - October 14, 1952 - Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture

2633455 - March 31, 1953 - Smoke Generator

2688069 - August 31, 1954 - Steam Generator - Referenced in 3990987

2721495 - October 25, 1955 - Method And Apparatus For Detecting Minute Crystal Forming Particles Suspended in a Gaseous Atmosphere

2730402 - January 10, 1956 - Controllable Dispersal Device

2801322 - July 30, 1957 - Decomposition Chamber for Monopropellant Fuel - Referenced in 3990987

2881335 - April 7, 1959 - Generation of Electrical Fields

2908442 - October 13, 1959 - Method For Dispersing Natural Atmospheric Fogs And Clouds

2986360 - May 30, 1962 - Aerial Insecticide Dusting Device

2963975 - December 13, 1960 - Cloud Seeding Carbon Dioxide Bullet

3126155 - March 24, 1964 - Silver Iodide Cloud Seeding Generator - Referenced in 3990987

3127107 - March 31, 1964 - Generation of Ice-Nucleating Crystals

3131131 - April 28, 1964 - Electrostatic Mixing in Microbial Conversions

3174150 - March 16, 1965 - Self-Focusing Antenna System

3234357 - February 8, 1966 - Electrically Heated Smoke Producing Device

3274035 - September 20, 1966 - Metallic Composition For Production of Hydroscopic Smoke

3300721 - January 24, 1967 - Means For Communication Through a Layer of Ionized Gases

3313487 - April 11, 1967 - Cloud Seeding Apparatus

3338476 - August 29, 1967 - Heating Device For Use With Aerosol Containers - Referenced in 3990987

3410489 - November 12, 1968 - Automatically Adjustable Airfoil Spray System With Pump

3429507 - February 25, 1969 - Rainmaker

3432208 - November 7, 1967 - Fluidized Particle Dispenser

3441214 - April 29, 1969 - Method And Apparatus For Seeding Clouds

3445844 - May 20, 1969 - Trapped Electromagnetic Radiation Communications System

3456880 - July 22, 1969 - Method Of Producing Precipitation From The Atmospher

3518670 June 30, 1970 - Artificial Ion Cloud

3534906 - October 20, 1970 - Control of Atmospheric Particles

3545677 - December 8, 1970 - Method of Cloud Seeding

3564253 - February 16, 1971 - System And Method For Irradiation Of Planet Surface Areas

3587966 - June 28, 1971 - Freezing Nucleation

3601312 - August 24, 1971 - Methods of Increasing The Likelihood oF Precipatation By The Artificial Introduction Of Sea Water Vapor Into The Atmosphere Winward Of An Air Lift Region

3608810 - September 28, 1971 - Methods of Treating Atmospheric Conditions

3608820 - September 20, 1971 - Treatment of Atmospheric Conditions by Intermittent Dispensing of Materials Therein

3613992 - October 19, 1971 - Weather Modification Method

3630950 - December 28, 1971 - Combustible Compositions For Generating Aerosols, Particularly Suitable For Cloud Modification And Weather Control And Aerosolization Process

USRE29142 - This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 - Combustible compositions for generating aerosols,
particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process

3659785 - December 8, 1971 - Weather Modification Utilizing Microencapsulated Material

3666176 - March 3, 1972 - Solar Temperature Inversion Device

3677840 - July 18, 1972 - Pyrotechnics Comprising Oxide of Silver For Weather Modification Use

3722183 - March 27, 1973 - Device For Clearing Impurities From The Atmosphere

3769107 - October 30, 1973 - Pyrotechnic Composition For Generating Lead Based Smoke

3784099 - January 8, 1974 - Air Pollution Control Method

3785557 - January 15, 1974 - Cloud Seeding System

3795626 - March 5, 1974 - Weather Modification Process

3808595 - April 30, 1974 - Chaff Dispensing System

3813875 - June 4, 1974 - Rocket Having Barium Release System to Create Ion Clouds In The Upper Atmopsphere

3835059 - September 10, 1974 - Methods of Generating Ice Nuclei Smoke Particles For Weather Modification And Apparatus Therefore

3835293 - September 10, 1974 - Electrical Heating Aparatus For Generating Super Heated Vapors - Referenced in 3990987

3877642 - April 15, 1975 - Freezing Nucleant

3882393 - May 6, 1975 - Communications System Utilizing Modulation of The Characteristic Polarization of The Ionosphere

3896993 - July 29, 1975 - Process For Local Modification of Fog And Clouds For Triggering Their Precipitation And For Hindering The Development of Hail Producing Clouds

3899129 - August 12, 1975 - Apparatus for generating ice nuclei smoke particles for weather modification

3899144 - August 12, 1975 - Powder contrail generation

Abstract: Powder Contrail Generation (PDF)
Filing date: Jul 22, 1974
Abstract: Light scattering pigment powder particles, surface treated to minimize interparticle cohesive forces, are dispensed from a jet mill deagglomerator as separate single particles to produce a powder contrail having maximum visibility or radiation scattering ability for a given weight material.

3940059 - February 24, 1976 - Method For Fog Dispersion

3940060 - February 24, 1976 - Vortex Ring Generator

3990987 - November 9, 1976 - Smoke generator

3992628 - November 16, 1976 - Countermeasure system for laser radiation

3994437 - November 30, 1976 - Broadcast dissemination of trace quantities of biologically active chemicals

4042196 - August 16, 1977 - Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes

RE29,142 - February 22, 1977 - Reissue of: 03630950 - Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process

4035726 - July 12, 1977 - Method of controlling and/or improving high-latitude and other communications or radio wave surveillance systems by partial control of radio wave et al

4096005 - June 20, 1978 - Pyrotechnic Cloud Seeding Composition

4129252 - December 12, 1978 - Method and apparatus for production of seeding materials

4141274 - February 27, 1979 - Weather modification automatic cartridge dispenser

4167008 - September 4, 1979 - Fluid bed chaff dispenser

4347284 - August 31, 1982 - White cover sheet material capable of reflecting ultraviolet rays

4362271 - December 7, 1982 - Procedure for the artificial modification of atmospheric precipitation as well as compounds with a dimethyl sulfoxide base for use in carrying out said procedure

4402480 - September 6, 1983 - Atmosphere modification satellite

4412654 - November 1, 1983 - Laminar microjet atomizer and method of aerial spraying of liquids

4415265 - November 15, 1983 - Method and apparatus for aerosol particle absorption spectroscopy

4470544 - September 11, 1984 - Method of and Means for weather modification

4475927 - October 9, 1984 - Bipolar Fog Abatement System

4600147 - July 15, 1986 - Liquid propane generator for cloud seeding apparatus

4633714 - January 6, 1987 - Aerosol particle charge and size analyzer

4643355 - February 17, 1987 - Method and apparatus for modification of climatic conditions

4653690 - March 31, 1987 - Method of producing cumulus clouds

4684063 - August 4, 1987 - Particulates generation and removal

4686605 - August 11, 1987 - Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere

4704942 - November 10, 1987 - Charged Aerosol

4712155 - December 8, 1987 - Method and apparatus for creating an artificial electron cyclotron heating region of plasma

4744919 - May 17, 1988 - Method of dispersing particulate aerosol tracer

4766725 - August 30, 1988 - Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor

4829838 - May 16, 1989 - Method and apparatus for the measurement of the size of particles entrained in a gas

4836086 - June 6, 1989 - Apparatus and method for the mixing and diffusion of warm and cold air for dissolving fog

4873928 - October 17, 1989 - Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation

4948257 - August 14, 1990 - Laser optical measuring device and method for stabilizing fringe pattern spacing

48050 - August 14, 1990 - Liquid atomizing a94pparatus for aerial spraying

4999637 - March 12, 1991 - Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth

THIS IS THE #1 CHEMTRAIL PATENT FROM HUGHES AIRCRAFT COMPANY

5003186 - March 26, 1991 - Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of global warming

5005355 - April 9, 1991 - Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor

5038664 - August 13, 1991 - Method for producing a shell of relativistic particles at an altitude above the earths surface

5041760 - August 20, 1991 - Method and apparatus for generating and utilizing a compound plasma configuration

5041834 - August 20, 1991 - Artificial ionospheric mirror composed of a plasma layer which can be tilted

5056357 - October 15, 1991- Acoustic method for measuring properties of a mobile medium

5059909 - October 22, 1991 - Determination of particle size and electrical charge

5104069 - April 14, 1992 - Apparatus and method for ejecting matter from an aircraft

5110502 - May 5, 1992 - Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor

5156802 - October 20, 1992 - Inspection of fuel particles with acoustics

5174498 - December 29, 1992 - Cloud Seeding

5148173 - September 15, 1992 - Millimeter wave screening cloud and method

5245290 - September 14, 1993 - Device for determining the size and charge of colloidal particles by measuring electroacoustic effect

5286979 - February 15, 1994 - Process for absorbing ultraviolet radiation using dispersed melanin

5296910 - March 22, 1994 - Method and apparatus for particle analysis

5327222 - July 5, 1994 - Displacement information detecting apparatus

5357865 - October 25, 1994 - Method of cloud seeding

5360162 - November 1, 1994 - Method and composition for precipitation of atmospheric water

5383024 - January 17, 1995 - Optical wet steam monitor

5425413 - June 20, 1995 - Method to hinder the formation and to break-up overhead atmospheric inversions, enhance ground level air circulation and improve urban air quality

5434667 - July 18, 1995 - Characterization of particles by modulated dynamic light scattering

5441200 - August 15, 1995 - Tropical cyclone disruption

5486900 - January 23, 1996 - Measuring device for amount of charge of toner and image forming apparatus having the measuring device

5556029 - September 17, 1996 - Method of hydrometeor dissipation (clouds)

5628455 - May 13, 1997 - Method and apparatus for modification of supercooled fog

5631414 - May 20, 1997 - Method and device for remote diagnostics of ocean-atmosphere system state

5639441 - June 17, 1997 - Methods for fine particle formation

5762298 - June 9, 1998 - Use of artificial satellites in earth orbits adaptively to modify the effect that solar radiation would otherwise have on earth's weather

5912396 - June 15, 1999 - System and method for remediation of selected atmospheric conditions

5922976 - July 13, 1999 - Method of measuring aerosol particles using automated mobility-classified aerosol detector

5949001 - September 7, 1999 - Method for aerodynamic particle size analysis

5984239 - November 16, 1999 - Weather modification by artificial satellite

6025402 - February 15, 2000 - Chemical composition for effectuating a reduction of visibility obscuration, and a detoxifixation of fumes and chemical fogs in spaces of fire origin

6030506 - February 29, 2000 - Preparation of independently generated highly reactive chemical species

6034073 - March 7, 2000 - Solvent detergent emulsions having antiviral activity

6045089 - April 4, 2000 - Solar-powered airplane

6056203 - May 2, 2000 - Method and apparatus for modifying supercooled clouds

6110590 - August 29, 2000 - Synthetically spun silk nanofibers and a process for making the same 6263744 - July 24, 2001 - Automated mobility-classified-aerosol detector

6281972 - August 28, 2001 - Method and apparatus for measuring particle-size distribution

6315213 - November 13, 2001 - Method of modifying weather

6382526 - May 7, 2002 - Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers

6408704 - June 25, 2002 - Aerodynamic particle size analysis method and apparatus

6412416 - July 2, 2002 - Propellant-based aerosol generation devices and method

6520425 - February 18, 2003 - Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers

6539812 - April 1, 2003 - System for measuring the flow-rate of a gas by means of ultrasound

6553849 - April 29, 2003 - Electrodynamic particle size analyzer

6569393 - May 27, 2003 - Method and device for cleaning the atmosphere



Any helps?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I guess there are a number of possibilities - ask them for evidence that any of these are being used to "spay" something from airliners, ask them which is the strongest evidence and where have they sen it in use, go through the list pointing out how most of it has nothing to do with aircraft or the atmosphere at all - eg see this thread on ATS - feel free to copy it if it helps - not sure if the list is the same tho.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
I usually just point out that the existence of a patent doesn't mean that something is being used (the vast majority never are), nor even that it would work - one of my favorite counterexamples is US Patent 6,960,975, which is for an antigravity drive for spacecraft, utilizing perpetual motion.

But as MikeC pointed out, many of the patents brought up have little or nothing to do with the chemtrails claims. I was just confronted by a commenter on YouTube this morning with old (1920s) patents for skywriting, and (in the same post) patents for improving titanium oxide particles for pigments (in paint, etc.) - with no explanation for what that had to do with chemtrails.
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
I usally compare it to other great but undone projects, like colonizing mars. There is a lot of real research and experiments about this topic since decades, but does that mean that there are manmade cities on the Mars? Well if you are in the wrong Forum, they could answer this with "Yes, but they are secret" :-D

In geo-enginerring, much Chemtrail-believers didn´t know what "Experiment" means. Most of the Experiments in Geo-Engineering are simulated Computermodels. Some are "natural Experiments" that means researchers are using a natural phenomenom like a vulcanic eruption or sandstorms as source for basic knowledge
 

Noble1965

New Member
Banned
Any patent with the words "spray" "aerosol" and "airplanes" included in the description, is proof of "chemtrails" to these people.

How can one have a normal conversation with anyone who is so easily able to jump to conclusions based on such assumptions?
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
I usually tell them to google "silly" or "absurd" patents(which will turn up lists of the aforementioned), and if that doesn't make it clear to them that a patent essentially means nothing as far as feasibility or implementation is concerned, then there's no much else to say.
 

lotek

Active Member
i have tried that before(and now) but it is to little effect. the patents they post are actually more viable than 50% of the patents on file lol. they just have nothing to do with the subject, or really are about weather modification which is a dead end. its VERY hard to get a CT follower to see the difference between having technology and global secret NWO chemtrail plot. i mean. if i had 50,000usd and a farm i could waste my cash on cloud seeding, the companies exist, the tech exists, they would see this as proof but it has NO connection to all the posts about contrails and ppl saying "just look up!!11!1!!" and pictures with factually incorrect captions etc.

cognitive bias, confirmation bias...... etc etc. To talk out my ass for a moment, They are chemically addicted to being 'awake'.
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.

Well, obviosly, you where in the wrong forum. :D

BTW:

There is a "real" Chemtrail-US-Patent from a guy named Mark Hucko from Bratislava

US 2009/0032214 A1

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090032214?printsec=abstract&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false

... but is also a kind of silly and childish. It desripeces the "chemtrail-Idea" in an overview without going into any details. It just talks about adding something to the fuel to save the climate and measure out if these additives will more shade the sun or not. A "Climate-controlling-center" then could command "Fligths over this region should use more dimming fuel, fligths in that direction should use fuel without sun-blocking additives".

This is the best part of it:

The Practical Application

In praxis this method looks like this: Sun-shading properties of all airplane fuels would be measured and all airplane fuels would be classified upon their sun-shading effects, each having its own sun-shading factor, in the same way as sun-shading creams have today. An international inter-governmental agency would regulate the use of various types of airplane fuels on various routes. On routes with extremely high airplane traffic, such as the central United States, the airplanes would use fuels with a low sun-shading factor. On other routes, such as die coastal areas of the United States, the oceans, and areas with low density of air-traffic would be mandated the use of airplane fuels with a high sun-shading factor. This kind of regulated and mandated use of airplane fuels with high/medium/low sun-shading (or sun-reflecting) factors would achieve within a few months (!) a significant normalization of the Earth's climate, stop and even reverse the warming of the terrestrial climate. One could even create a mini "nuclear winter" or a mini ice-age.

This patent even doesn´t mention additives by name wich could do this, this patent is just explaning the chemtrails-Idea in general.

BTW: This is technical impossible at the time. Great Airports like FRA in Germany are getting their fuel directly from a network of pipelines. They allways get the same fuel.


Funny point, that the real Chemtrail-Believers didn´t found this Patent.

And important to think about this Patent...

The existance of this "silly" Patent shows us: There was no real "Chemtrail-Patent", because if there was one before, the idea of Mr. Hucko would not be new and he wouldn´t get this "overall-Patent". It should get in conflict to the "real Patent" that was before...

And if some company or gouverment comes to the idea adding something to the fuel to block the sun - They have to ask Mr. Hucko in Bratislava before, because he owns the "chemtrail-Patent"

Isn´t it ironic?!
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
i have tried that before(and now) but it is to little effect. the patents they post are actually more viable than 50% of the patents on file lol. they just have nothing to do with the subject, or really are about weather modification which is a dead end. its VERY hard to get a CT follower to see the difference between having technology and global secret NWO chemtrail plot. i mean. if i had 50,000usd and a farm i could waste my cash on cloud seeding, the companies exist, the tech exists, they would see this as proof but it has NO connection to all the posts about contrails and ppl saying "just look up!!11!1!!" and pictures with factually incorrect captions etc.

cognitive bias, confirmation bias...... etc etc. To talk out my ass for a moment, They are chemically addicted to being 'awake'.


I think the best you can do then is to make it painfully obvious a patent is not conclusive evidence of anything. They will go on to connect the dots to chemtrail/haarp/NWO/etc regardless, but maybe they'll stop brining up "THERES A PATENT FOR IT" as if it means anything to a rational observer.

FreiZeitGeist said:
And if some company or gouverment comes to the idea adding something to the fuel to block the sun - They have to ask Mr. Hucko in Bratislava before, because he owns the "chemtrail-Patent"

Isn´t it ironic?!

Amusing. Does anyone know the feasibility of adding anything to jet fuel besides additives like this? I imagine the usual culprits people bring up of aluminum(in whatever form), strontium, etc would wreck havoc on an engine that isn't designed for them, no?
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
i have tried that before(and now) but it is to little effect. the patents they post are actually more viable than 50% of the patents on file lol. they just have nothing to do with the subject, or really are about weather modification which is a dead end. its VERY hard to get a CT follower to see the difference between having technology and global secret NWO chemtrail plot. i mean.

You have to take a look around the platform you´re participating...

If the Forum or Blog itself is silly and too conspiracy, most of your postings are just a waste of time and effort. I only take part in forums and blogs, where the audience is open for taking self-reasearche...

Forums like "above-Top-Secret" - there is a chance to reach people before they are running mad into totally conspiracy...

Forums like "Goodlike-Productions" (Sorry at George B :) are hopeless. YouToube-Comments are also hopeless from my side of view. It´s frustating taking part on them.

The key is to get the people really got interessted to see ant think about the "other SIde" of the medal. And to make own researche and own thinking.

Isn´t it intersting that "we" here know the arguments from the Chemtrail-Believers-Side (sometimes better than they do) - but they really just ignore anything from "our side"?!

We are open for the arguments from the "other Side". And we are open to discuss about them. Wherether they are not open for the "other side", there is just no basic to start a real disussion.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Isn´t it intersting that "we" here know the arguments from the Chemtrail-Believers-Side (sometimes better than they do) - but they really just ignore anything from "our side"?!

We are open for the arguments from the "other Side". And we are open to discuss about them. Wherether they are not open for the "other side", there is just no basic to start a real disussion.

I think that is perhaps the starkest contrast between metabunk/etc and conspiracy theory echo-chamber websites.

Here, you only get banned for being rude or off-topic.
There, you get banned for posting anything that might conflict with their beliefs.

Here, we actually listen to and examine all evidence and claims, no matter how absurd they might be.
There, they embrace absurdity for the simple fact it cannot be conclusively proven false(just like god cannot be conclusively proven to be non-existent), and since governments (including the US) have done nefarious things in the past it follows they would try to do so today (when it's easier than ever to expose them :rolleyes:).
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Isn´t it intersting that "we" here know the arguments from the Chemtrail-Believers-Side (sometimes better than they do) - but they really just ignore anything from "our side"?!

We are open for the arguments from the "other Side". And we are open to discuss about them. Wherether they are not open for the "other side", there is just no basic to start a real disussion.
Exactly true, Frei. For instance, if Dane Wigington ever actually visited here, it would be like the most devout Christian attending a Satanic Mass. He certainly wouldn't be continuing to repeat his very incorrect "contrails only form at below -70 degrees fahrenheit" misinfomation. They cut off their noses to spite their faces by not engaging in debunking themselves, or correcting their errors when found out, while we get challenged and accept it as a way to improve our arguments.
 

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