"GO FAST" Footage from Tom DeLonge's To The Stars Academy. Bird? Balloon?

Agent K

Active Member
I thought that was just a visual indication of the direction of the camera relative to the plane?

Might be useful to track that in After Effects. It's finer grained than the ° numbers, and could tell us something about the ground tracking mode which confuses people.

That's how it seems to be behaving in this video, which would be redundant. In the Gimbal video, the dot is almost at the top when the azimuth reads zero, but it reaches the top when the azimuth is about 6 degrees.

Edit: On second thought, I guess it's at the top at 0 degrees. It's hard to read because it overlaps other symbology. So camera direction makes more sense.
 
Last edited:

Justin Shaw

New Member
Great! Thanks.

Now can I track that line in 3ds Max and use it as an animation trajectory. I think.

I have zero aviation experience, so I'm confused and will sound pretty ignorant here, but why does the jet bank to the left in all these calculations when the artificial horizon banks to the right?

And does anyone know, for a 3D recreation would I want to use the TAS or CAS?

For a 3D recreation, I think you want to use ground speed. That is TAS + Wind. We don't know the wind speed or direction, but we could figure it out based on the video @igoddard posted stabilized to the waves (conveniently at sea level!). Here is the data based on true airspeed (no wind taken into consideration).

Here is the raw X, Y, Z data for the entire video.
Code:
t[sec],	x [m],	y [m],	z [m],xDot [m/s],yDot [m/s],zDot [m/s], roll [deg]
  0.00,	   19,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.03,	  0.00, 1.528
  0.10,	   38,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.05,	  0.00, 1.530
  0.20,	   57,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.08,	  0.00, 1.533
  0.30,	   76,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.10,	  0.00, 1.449
  0.40,	   95,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.13,	  0.00, 1.362
  0.50,	  114,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.15,	  0.00, 1.359
  0.60,	  133,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.17,	  0.00, 1.316
  0.70,	  152,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.19,	  0.00, 1.319
  0.80,	  171,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.22,	  0.00, 1.272
  0.90,	  190,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.24,	  0.00, 1.190
  1.00,	  209,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.26,	  0.00, 1.100
  1.10,	  228,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.27,	  0.00, 1.085
  1.20,	  247,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.29,	  0.00, 0.987
  1.30,	  266,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.31,	  0.00, 0.917
  1.40,	  285,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.32,	  0.00, 0.830
  1.50,	  304,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.33,	  0.00, 0.745
  1.60,	  323,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.35,	  0.00, 0.798
  1.70,	  342,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.36,	  0.00, 0.718
  1.80,	  361,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.37,	  0.00, 0.519
  1.90,	  380,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.38,	  0.00, 0.555
  2.00,	  399,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.39,	  0.00, 0.460
  2.10,	  418,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.39,	  0.00, 0.408
  2.20,	  437,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.40,	  0.00, 0.405
  2.30,	  456,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.41,	  0.00, 0.351
  2.40,	  475,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.41,	  0.00, 0.279
  2.50,	  494,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.41,	  0.00, 0.160
  2.60,	  513,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, 0.159
  2.70,	  532,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, 0.036
  2.80,	  551,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, 0.014
  2.90,	  569,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, 0.001
  3.00,	  588,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, -0.014
  3.10,	  607,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, -0.057
  3.20,	  626,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.42,	  0.00, -0.047
  3.30,	  645,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.41,	  0.00, -0.118
  3.40,	  664,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.41,	  0.00, -0.132
  3.50,	  683,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.41,	  0.00, -0.133
  3.60,	  702,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.40,	  0.00, -0.252
  3.70,	  721,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.40,	  0.00, -0.259
  3.80,	  740,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.40,	  0.00, -0.250
  3.90,	  759,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.39,	  0.00, -0.306
  4.00,	  778,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.39,	  0.00, -0.290
  4.10,	  797,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.38,	  0.00, -0.281
  4.20,	  816,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.38,	  0.00, -0.291
  4.30,	  835,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.37,	  0.00, -0.313
  4.40,	  854,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.36,	  0.00, -0.330
  4.50,	  873,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.36,	  0.00, -0.318
  4.60,	  892,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.35,	  0.00, -0.324
  4.70,	  911,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.35,	  0.00, -0.329
  4.80,	  930,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.34,	  0.00, -0.329
  4.90,	  949,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.34,	  0.00, -0.330
  5.00,	  968,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.33,	  0.00, -0.336
  5.10,	  987,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.33,	  0.00, -0.333
  5.20,	 1006,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.32,	  0.00, -0.332
  5.30,	 1025,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.31,	  0.00, -0.333
  5.40,	 1044,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.31,	  0.00, -0.320
  5.50,	 1063,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.30,	  0.00, -0.217
  5.60,	 1082,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.30,	  0.00, -0.224
  5.70,	 1101,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.30,	  0.00, -0.225
  5.80,	 1120,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.29,	  0.00, -0.195
  5.90,	 1139,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.29,	  0.00, -0.140
  6.00,	 1158,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.29,	  0.00, -0.151
  6.10,	 1177,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.29,	  0.00, -0.142
  6.20,	 1196,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.089
  6.30,	 1215,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.029
  6.40,	 1234,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.141
  6.50,	 1253,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.053
  6.60,	 1272,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.148
  6.70,	 1291,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.151
  6.80,	 1310,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.008
  6.90,	 1329,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.011
  7.00,	 1348,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.28,	  0.00, -0.014
  7.10,	 1367,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.27,	  0.00, -0.064
  7.20,	 1386,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.27,	  0.00, -0.163
  7.30,	 1405,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.26,	  0.00, -0.383
  7.40,	 1424,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.25,	  0.00, -0.635
  7.50,	 1443,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.24,	  0.00, -0.943
  7.60,	 1462,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.22,	  0.00, -1.303
  7.70,	 1481,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.19,	  0.00, -1.616
  7.80,	 1500,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.16,	  0.00, -1.916
  7.90,	 1519,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.12,	  0.00, -2.195
  8.00,	 1538,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.07,	  0.00, -2.543
  8.10,	 1557,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.02,	  0.00, -2.883
  8.20,	 1576,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.03,	  0.00, -3.129
  8.30,	 1595,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.09,	  0.00, -3.446
  8.40,	 1614,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.15,	  0.00, -3.604
  8.50,	 1633,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.21,	  0.00, -3.736
  8.60,	 1652,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.28,	  0.00, -4.056
  8.70,	 1671,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.35,	  0.00, -4.125
  8.80,	 1689,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.43,	  0.00, -4.304
  8.90,	 1708,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.50,	  0.00, -4.358
  9.00,	 1727,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.58,	  0.00, -4.476
  9.10,	 1746,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.66,	  0.00, -4.586
  9.20,	 1765,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.74,	  0.00, -4.884
  9.30,	 1784,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.83,	  0.00, -4.883
  9.40,	 1803,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.91,	  0.00, -4.875
  9.50,	 1822,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.99,	  0.00, -4.780
  9.60,	 1841,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.07,	  0.00, -4.711
  9.70,	 1860,	   -2,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.15,	  0.00, -4.555
  9.80,	 1879,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.23,	  0.00, -4.464
  9.90,	 1898,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.30,	  0.00, -4.303
 10.00,	 1917,	   -1,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.37,	  0.00, -4.182
 10.10,	 1936,	   -1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.44,	  0.00, -3.929
 10.20,	 1955,	   -1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.50,	  0.00, -3.776
 10.30,	 1974,	   -1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.56,	  0.00, -3.586
 10.40,	 1993,	   -1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.62,	  0.00, -3.436
 10.50,	 2012,	   -0,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.68,	  0.00, -3.188
 10.60,	 2031,	   -0,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.73,	  0.00, -3.003
 10.70,	 2050,	   -0,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.78,	  0.00, -2.699
 10.80,	 2069,		0,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.82,	  0.00, -2.485
 10.90,	 2088,		0,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.86,	  0.00, -2.185
 11.00,	 2107,		1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.89,	  0.00, -1.898
 11.10,	 2126,		1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.92,	  0.00, -1.750
 11.20,	 2145,		1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.94,	  0.00, -1.515
 11.30,	 2164,		1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.97,	  0.00, -1.237
 11.40,	 2183,		1,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.98,	  0.00, -1.018
 11.50,	 2202,		1,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.00,	  0.00, -0.824
 11.60,	 2221,		2,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.00,	  0.00, -0.477
 11.70,	 2240,		2,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.01,	  0.00, -0.330
 11.80,	 2259,		2,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.01,	  0.00, -0.069
 11.90,	 2278,		2,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.01,	  0.00, 0.110
 12.00,	 2297,		2,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.01,	  0.00, 0.246
 12.10,	 2316,		3,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.00,	  0.00, 0.411
 12.20,	 2335,		3,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.99,	  0.00, 0.594
 12.30,	 2354,		3,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.98,	  0.00, 0.686
 12.40,	 2373,		3,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.96,	  0.00, 0.899
 12.50,	 2392,		3,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.94,	  0.00, 0.952
 12.60,	 2411,		4,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.92,	  0.00, 1.193
 12.70,	 2430,		4,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.90,	  0.00, 1.391
 12.80,	 2449,		4,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.88,	  0.00, 1.490
 12.90,	 2468,		4,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.85,	  0.00, 1.679
 13.00,	 2487,		4,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.82,	  0.00, 1.716
 13.10,	 2506,		5,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.79,	  0.00, 1.787
 13.20,	 2525,		5,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.75,	  0.00, 1.853
 13.30,	 2544,		5,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.72,	  0.00, 1.964
 13.40,	 2563,		5,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.68,	  0.00, 2.126
 13.50,	 2582,		5,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.65,	  0.00, 2.165
 13.60,	 2601,		5,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.61,	  0.00, 2.291
 13.70,	 2620,		6,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.57,	  0.00, 2.307
 13.80,	 2639,		6,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.53,	  0.00, 2.348
 13.90,	 2658,		6,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.49,	  0.00, 2.347
 14.00,	 2677,		6,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.45,	  0.00, 2.335
 14.10,	 2696,		6,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.41,	  0.00, 2.348
 14.20,	 2715,		6,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.37,	  0.00, 2.353
 14.30,	 2734,		6,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.33,	  0.00, 2.337
 14.40,	 2752,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.29,	  0.00, 2.358
 14.50,	 2771,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.25,	  0.00, 2.354
 14.60,	 2790,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.21,	  0.00, 2.352
 14.70,	 2809,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.17,	  0.00, 2.352
 14.80,	 2828,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.13,	  0.00, 2.293
 14.90,	 2847,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.09,	  0.00, 2.216
 15.00,	 2866,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.05,	  0.00, 2.118
 15.10,	 2885,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.02,	  0.00, 2.033
 15.20,	 2904,		7,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.98,	  0.00, 2.027
 15.30,	 2923,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.95,	  0.00, 1.916
 15.40,	 2942,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.92,	  0.00, 1.899
 15.50,	 2961,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.89,	  0.00, 1.860
 15.60,	 2980,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.86,	  0.00, 1.787
 15.70,	 2999,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.83,	  0.00, 1.612
 15.80,	 3018,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.81,	  0.00, 1.312
 15.90,	 3037,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.79,	  0.00, 1.135
 16.00,	 3056,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.77,	  0.00, 0.848
 16.10,	 3075,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.76,	  0.00, 0.597
 16.20,	 3094,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.76,	  0.00, 0.315
 16.30,	 3113,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.76,	  0.00, -0.007
 16.40,	 3132,		8,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.76,	  0.00, -0.278
 16.50,	 3151,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.77,	  0.00, -0.672
 16.60,	 3170,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.80,	  0.00, -1.287
 16.70,	 3189,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.83,	  0.00, -1.759
 16.80,	 3208,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.87,	  0.00, -2.370
 16.90,	 3227,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.92,	  0.00, -3.046
 17.00,	 3246,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  0.98,	  0.00, -3.805
 17.10,	 3265,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.06,	  0.00, -4.529
 17.20,	 3284,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.15,	  0.00, -5.216
 17.30,	 3303,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.25,	  0.00, -5.966
 17.40,	 3322,		9,	 7620,	189.83,	  1.37,	  0.00, -6.590
 17.50,	 3341,	   10,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.49,	  0.00, -7.208
 17.60,	 3360,	   10,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.63,	  0.00, -7.885
 17.70,	 3379,	   10,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.77,	  0.00, -8.480
 17.80,	 3398,	   10,	 7620,	189.82,	  1.93,	  0.00, -9.023
 17.90,	 3417,	   10,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.09,	  0.00, -9.544
 18.00,	 3436,	   11,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.26,	  0.00, -9.976
 18.10,	 3455,	   11,	 7620,	189.82,	  2.45,	  0.00, -10.516
 18.20,	 3474,	   11,	 7620,	189.81,	  2.63,	  0.00, -10.881
 18.30,	 3493,	   11,	 7620,	189.81,	  2.83,	  0.00, -11.197
 18.40,	 3512,	   12,	 7620,	189.81,	  3.03,	  0.00, -11.457
 18.50,	 3531,	   12,	 7620,	189.80,	  3.23,	  0.00, -11.676
 18.60,	 3550,	   12,	 7620,	189.80,	  3.44,	  0.00, -11.879
 18.70,	 3569,	   13,	 7620,	189.80,	  3.64,	  0.00, -12.025
 18.80,	 3588,	   13,	 7620,	189.79,	  3.85,	  0.00, -12.083
 18.90,	 3607,	   13,	 7620,	189.79,	  4.07,	  0.00, -12.219
 19.00,	 3626,	   14,	 7620,	189.78,	  4.28,	  0.00, -12.343
 19.10,	 3645,	   14,	 7620,	189.78,	  4.50,	  0.00, -12.442
 19.20,	 3664,	   15,	 7620,	189.77,	  4.72,	  0.00, -12.536
 19.30,	 3683,	   15,	 7620,	189.77,	  4.94,	  0.00, -12.665
 19.40,	 3702,	   16,	 7620,	189.76,	  5.16,	  0.00, -12.731
 19.50,	 3721,	   16,	 7620,	189.76,	  5.38,	  0.00, -12.822
 19.60,	 3740,	   17,	 7620,	189.75,	  5.60,	  0.00, -12.836
 19.70,	 3759,	   18,	 7620,	189.74,	  5.83,	  0.00, -12.946
 19.80,	 3777,	   18,	 7620,	189.74,	  6.05,	  0.00, -13.040
 19.90,	 3796,	   19,	 7620,	189.73,	  6.28,	  0.00, -13.140
 20.00,	 3815,	   19,	 7620,	189.72,	  6.51,	  0.00, -13.233
 20.10,	 3834,	   20,	 7620,	189.71,	  6.75,	  0.00, -13.453
 20.20,	 3853,	   21,	 7620,	189.71,	  6.98,	  0.00, -13.487
 20.30,	 3872,	   22,	 7620,	189.70,	  7.22,	  0.00, -13.571
 20.40,	 3891,	   22,	 7620,	189.69,	  7.46,	  0.00, -13.587
 20.50,	 3910,	   23,	 7620,	189.68,	  7.69,	  0.00, -13.580
 20.60,	 3929,	   24,	 7620,	189.67,	  7.93,	  0.00, -13.498
 20.70,	 3948,	   25,	 7620,	189.66,	  8.16,	  0.00, -13.381
 20.80,	 3967,	   25,	 7620,	189.65,	  8.39,	  0.00, -13.201
 20.90,	 3986,	   26,	 7620,	189.64,	  8.62,	  0.00, -13.094
 21.00,	 4005,	   27,	 7620,	189.63,	  8.84,	  0.00, -12.889
 21.10,	 4024,	   28,	 7620,	189.62,	  9.06,	  0.00, -12.722
 21.20,	 4043,	   29,	 7620,	189.61,	  9.28,	  0.00, -12.571
 21.30,	 4062,	   30,	 7620,	189.60,	  9.50,	  0.00, -12.475
 21.40,	 4081,	   31,	 7620,	189.59,	  9.71,	  0.00, -12.340
 21.50,	 4100,	   32,	 7620,	189.58,	  9.92,	  0.00, -12.264
 21.60,	 4119,	   33,	 7620,	189.56,	 10.14,	  0.00, -12.200
 21.70,	 4138,	   34,	 7620,	189.55,	 10.35,	  0.00, -12.100
 21.80,	 4157,	   35,	 7620,	189.54,	 10.56,	  0.00, -12.098
 21.90,	 4176,	   36,	 7620,	189.53,	 10.76,	  0.00, -11.988
 22.00,	 4195,	   37,	 7620,	189.52,	 10.97,	  0.00, -11.981
 22.10,	 4214,	   38,	 7620,	189.51,	 11.18,	  0.00, -11.976
 22.20,	 4233,	   40,	 7620,	189.49,	 11.39,	  0.00, -12.010
 22.30,	 4252,	   41,	 7620,	189.48,	 11.60,	  0.00, -12.089
 22.40,	 4270,	   42,	 7620,	189.47,	 11.81,	  0.00, -12.086
 22.50,	 4289,	   43,	 7620,	189.46,	 12.02,	  0.00, -12.068
 22.60,	 4308,	   44,	 7620,	189.44,	 12.22,	  0.00, -12.062
 22.70,	 4327,	   46,	 7620,	189.43,	 12.44,	  0.00, -12.184
 22.80,	 4346,	   47,	 7620,	189.42,	 12.65,	  0.00, -12.182
 22.90,	 4365,	   48,	 7620,	189.40,	 12.86,	  0.00, -12.156
 23.00,	 4384,	   49,	 7620,	189.39,	 13.07,	  0.00, -12.288
 23.10,	 4403,	   51,	 7620,	189.37,	 13.28,	  0.00, -12.268
 23.20,	 4422,	   52,	 7620,	189.36,	 13.50,	  0.00, -12.322
 23.30,	 4441,	   53,	 7620,	189.34,	 13.71,	  0.00, -12.353
 23.40,	 4460,	   55,	 7620,	189.33,	 13.92,	  0.00, -12.372
 23.50,	 4479,	   56,	 7620,	189.31,	 14.14,	  0.00, -12.388
 23.60,	 4498,	   58,	 7620,	189.29,	 14.36,	  0.00, -12.460
 23.70,	 4517,	   59,	 7620,	189.28,	 14.57,	  0.00, -12.452
 23.80,	 4536,	   61,	 7620,	189.26,	 14.79,	  0.00, -12.459
 23.90,	 4554,	   62,	 7620,	189.24,	 15.00,	  0.00, -12.551
 24.00,	 4573,	   64,	 7620,	189.23,	 15.22,	  0.00, -12.569
 24.10,	 4592,	   65,	 7620,	189.21,	 15.44,	  0.00, -12.559
 24.20,	 4611,	   67,	 7620,	189.19,	 15.66,	  0.00, -12.568
 24.30,	 4630,	   68,	 7620,	189.17,	 15.88,	  0.00, -12.648
 24.40,	 4649,	   70,	 7620,	189.16,	 16.10,	  0.00, -12.697
 24.50,	 4668,	   72,	 7620,	189.14,	 16.32,	  0.00, -12.683
 24.60,	 4687,	   73,	 7620,	189.12,	 16.54,	  0.00, -12.673
 24.70,	 4706,	   75,	 7620,	189.10,	 16.76,	  0.00, -12.663
 24.80,	 4725,	   77,	 7620,	189.08,	 16.98,	  0.00, -12.701
 24.90,	 4744,	   78,	 7620,	189.06,	 17.20,	  0.00, -12.754
 25.00,	 4763,	   80,	 7620,	189.04,	 17.42,	  0.00, -12.747
 25.10,	 4781,	   82,	 7620,	189.02,	 17.64,	  0.00, -12.781
 25.20,	 4800,	   84,	 7620,	189.00,	 17.86,	  0.00, -12.860
 25.30,	 4819,	   85,	 7620,	188.98,	 18.08,	  0.00, -12.875
 25.40,	 4838,	   87,	 7620,	188.96,	 18.31,	  0.00, -12.944
 25.50,	 4857,	   89,	 7620,	188.93,	 18.53,	  0.00, -12.927
 25.60,	 4876,	   91,	 7620,	188.91,	 18.76,	  0.00, -12.948
 25.70,	 4895,	   93,	 7620,	188.89,	 18.98,	  0.00, -13.047
 25.80,	 4914,	   95,	 7620,	188.87,	 19.21,	  0.00, -13.051
 25.90,	 4933,	   97,	 7620,	188.84,	 19.43,	  0.00, -13.065
 26.00,	 4951,	   99,	 7620,	188.82,	 19.66,	  0.00, -13.053
 26.10,	 4970,	  101,	 7620,	188.80,	 19.89,	  0.00, -13.035
 26.20,	 4989,	  103,	 7620,	188.77,	 20.11,	  0.00, -13.036
 26.30,	 5008,	  105,	 7620,	188.75,	 20.34,	  0.00, -13.043
 26.40,	 5027,	  107,	 7620,	188.72,	 20.56,	  0.00, -13.023
 26.50,	 5046,	  109,	 7620,	188.70,	 20.79,	  0.00, -12.958
 26.60,	 5065,	  111,	 7620,	188.68,	 21.01,	  0.00, -12.922
 26.70,	 5084,	  113,	 7620,	188.65,	 21.23,	  0.00, -12.918
 26.80,	 5102,	  115,	 7620,	188.63,	 21.46,	  0.00, -12.915
 26.90,	 5121,	  117,	 7620,	188.60,	 21.68,	  0.00, -12.909
 27.00,	 5140,	  120,	 7620,	188.57,	 21.90,	  0.00, -12.928
 27.10,	 5159,	  122,	 7620,	188.55,	 22.13,	  0.00, -12.936
 27.20,	 5178,	  124,	 7620,	188.52,	 22.35,	  0.00, -12.922
 27.30,	 5197,	  126,	 7620,	188.50,	 22.57,	  0.00, -12.932
 27.40,	 5216,	  129,	 7620,	188.47,	 22.80,	  0.00, -12.925
 27.50,	 5234,	  131,	 7620,	188.44,	 23.02,	  0.00, -12.924
 27.60,	 5253,	  133,	 7620,	188.41,	 23.24,	  0.00, -12.938
 27.70,	 5272,	  136,	 7620,	188.39,	 23.47,	  0.00, -12.912
 27.80,	 5291,	  138,	 7620,	188.36,	 23.69,	  0.00, -12.916
 27.90,	 5310,	  140,	 7620,	188.33,	 23.91,	  0.00, -12.908
 28.00,	 5329,	  143,	 7620,	188.30,	 24.14,	  0.00, -13.035
 28.10,	 5347,	  145,	 7620,	188.27,	 24.36,	  0.00, -13.043
 28.20,	 5366,	  148,	 7620,	188.24,	 24.59,	  0.00, -13.043
 28.30,	 5385,	  150,	 7620,	188.22,	 24.81,	  0.00, -13.047
 28.40,	 5404,	  153,	 7620,	188.19,	 25.04,	  0.00, -13.114
 28.50,	 5423,	  155,	 7620,	188.16,	 25.27,	  0.00, -13.133
 28.60,	 5441,	  158,	 7620,	188.12,	 25.49,	  0.00, -13.128
 28.70,	 5460,	  160,	 7620,	188.09,	 25.72,	  0.00, -13.177
 28.80,	 5479,	  163,	 7620,	188.06,	 25.95,	  0.00, -13.215
 28.90,	 5498,	  165,	 7620,	188.03,	 26.18,	  0.00, -13.207
 29.00,	 5517,	  168,	 7620,	188.00,	 26.41,	  0.00, -13.300
 29.10,	 5536,	  171,	 7620,	187.97,	 26.64,	  0.00, -13.304
 29.20,	 5554,	  173,	 7620,	187.93,	 26.87,	  0.00, -13.343
 29.30,	 5573,	  176,	 7620,	187.90,	 27.10,	  0.00, -13.321
 29.40,	 5592,	  179,	 7620,	187.87,	 27.33,	  0.00, -13.339
 29.50,	 5611,	  182,	 7620,	187.84,	 27.56,	  0.00, -13.347
 29.60,	 5629,	  184,	 7620,	187.80,	 27.79,	  0.00, -13.425
 29.70,	 5648,	  187,	 7620,	187.77,	 28.02,	  0.00, -13.417
 29.80,	 5667,	  190,	 7620,	187.73,	 28.25,	  0.00, -13.426
 29.90,	 5686,	  193,	 7620,	187.70,	 28.48,	  0.00, -13.426
 30.00,	 5705,	  196,	 7620,	187.66,	 28.71,	  0.00, -13.430
 30.10,	 5723,	  199,	 7620,	187.63,	 28.94,	  0.00, -13.324
 30.20,	 5742,	  202,	 7620,	187.59,	 29.17,	  0.00, -13.351
 30.30,	 5761,	  205,	 7620,	187.56,	 29.40,	  0.00, -13.314
 30.40,	 5780,	  207,	 7620,	187.52,	 29.63,	  0.00, -13.331
 30.50,	 5798,	  210,	 7620,	187.48,	 29.86,	  0.00, -13.328
 30.60,	 5817,	  213,	 7620,	187.45,	 30.09,	  0.00, -13.329
 30.70,	 5836,	  217,	 7620,	187.41,	 30.32,	  0.00, -13.342
 30.80,	 5855,	  220,	 7620,	187.37,	 30.55,	  0.00, -13.338
 30.90,	 5873,	  223,	 7620,	187.34,	 30.78,	  0.00, -13.333
 31.00,	 5892,	  226,	 7620,	187.30,	 31.01,	  0.00, -13.324
 31.10,	 5911,	  229,	 7620,	187.26,	 31.23,	  0.00, -13.264
 31.20,	 5929,	  232,	 7620,	187.22,	 31.46,	  0.00, -13.236
 31.30,	 5948,	  235,	 7620,	187.18,	 31.69,	  0.00, -13.233
 31.40,	 5967,	  238,	 7620,	187.15,	 31.92,	  0.00, -13.229
 31.50,	 5986,	  242,	 7620,	187.11,	 32.14,	  0.00, -13.234
 31.60,	 6004,	  245,	 7620,	187.07,	 32.37,	  0.00, -13.242
 31.70,	 6023,	  248,	 7620,	187.03,	 32.60,	  0.00, -13.253
 31.80,	 6042,	  251,	 7620,	186.99,	 32.83,	  0.00, -13.258
 31.90,	 6060,	  255,	 7620,	186.95,	 33.05,	  0.00, -13.321
 32.00,	 6079,	  258,	 7620,	186.91,	 33.28,	  0.00, -13.322
 32.10,	 6098,	  261,	 7620,	186.87,	 33.51,	  0.00, -13.338
 32.20,	 6116,	  265,	 7620,	186.83,	 33.74,	  0.00, -13.333
 32.30,	 6135,	  268,	 7620,	186.79,	 33.97,	  0.00, -13.337
 32.40,	 6154,	  272,	 7620,	186.74,	 34.20,	  0.00, -13.427
 32.50,	 6172,	  275,	 7620,	186.70,	 34.43,	  0.00, -13.422
 32.60,	 6191,	  278,	 7620,	186.66,	 34.66,	  0.00, -13.437
 32.70,	 6210,	  282,	 7620,	186.62,	 34.89,	  0.00, -13.439
 32.80,	 6228,	  285,	 7620,	186.57,	 35.12,	  0.00, -13.436
 32.90,	 6247,	  289,	 7620,	186.53,	 35.35,	  0.00, -13.427
 33.00,	 6266,	  293,	 7620,	186.49,	 35.58,	  0.00, -13.429
 33.10,	 6284,	  296,	 7620,	186.44,	 35.81,	  0.00, -13.515
 33.20,	 6303,	  300,	 7620,	186.40,	 36.04,	  0.00, -13.517
 33.30,	 6322,	  303,	 7620,	186.35,	 36.28,	  0.00, -13.667
 33.40,	 6340,	  307,	 7620,	186.31,	 36.52,	  0.00, -14.088
 33.50,	 6359,	  311,	 7620,	186.26,	 36.77,	  0.00, -14.565
 33.60,	 6378,	  314,	 7620,	186.21,	 37.03,	  0.00, -15.149
 33.70,	 6396,	  318,	 7620,	186.15,	 37.30,	  0.00, -15.790
 33.80,	 6415,	  322,	 7620,	186.10,	 37.58,	  0.00, -16.453
 33.90,	 6433,	  326,	 7620,	186.03,	 37.88,	  0.00, -17.288
 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
For a 3D recreation, I think you want to use ground speed. That is TAS + Wind. We don't know the wind speed or direction, but we could figure it out based on the video @igoddard posted stabilized to the waves (conveniently at sea level!).
Be aware there is often a huge variation in wind speed and direction with altitude. Escpecially compared to ground level winds.

Here's an actual, if somewhat contrived, example that shows you how big the range can be:
Metabunk 2018-03-17 08-31-02.jpg

At sea level the speed are low and variable. In the spot indicated in the North Atlantic at ground level they are 10 km/h from 100° (East). At 500 hPa (around 18,000 feet) the wind is 124 km/h at 225°

So that's around 70 knots of error if you were to take the ground wind speed for the mid-altitudes wind speeds.

And we know this is almost certainly just a few minutes before the GIMAL video in which they say:
Metabunk 2018-03-17 08-38-45.jpg

So there's a VAST potential for error in making assumptions about the wind.
 

Justin Shaw

New Member
Be aware there is often a huge variation in wind speed and direction with altitude. Escpecially compared to ground level winds.

Here's an actual, if somewhat contrived, example that shows you how big the range can be:
View attachment 32297

At sea level the speed are low and variable. In the spot indicated in the North Atlantic at ground level they are 10 km/h from 100° (East). At 500 hPa (around 18,000 feet) the wind is 124 km/h at 225°

So that's around 70 knots of error if you were to take the ground wind speed for the mid-altitudes wind speeds.

And we know this is almost certainly just a few minutes before the GIMAL video in which they say:
View attachment 32298

So there's a VAST potential for error in making assumptions about the wind.

Agreed @Mick West . What I meant was that we use the waves as a fixed reference and use the az/el rates to compute ground speed. I was not suggesting that we assume ground wind speed is the same as altitude wind speed.
 

Getoffthisplanet

Active Member
Here is the raw X, Y, Z data for the entire video.

Oh, wow. Thanks. I was sort of wondering last night if that was possible.

As soon as I figure out the scripting syntax to get this data into 3ds Max, this would be preferable to using your "blue line trajectory" as a motion path and manually keying in altitude across all 1000+ frames.
 

Tom Mellett

New Member
What Gary Nolan seems to be saying is that if the object were at 12,500 feet altitude, both it and the surface of the sea could not be in focus at the same time, because the object would be too close to the camera and the sea would be too far. So, because they are both in focus, the object must be at a lower altitude.

Let's find out.

Thank you so much for this analysis. I brought it to Garry Nolan’s attention of the TTSA FB page and he has become convinced that you are right. Here is our exchange:
 

Simeon Hein

New Member
Absent the fighter pilot's testimony, is there any evidence from the video alone that the "object" isn't a shadow on the ocean surface from a plane in the area. Would this explain why it's giving off no heat?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here's the track of the camera angles dot. The red point indicate where it started to track smoothly.
Metabunk 2018-03-17 09-36-39.jpg

Here's a graph of angle and radius (radius = distance from screen center)
Metabunk 2018-03-17 10-35-48.jpg

A "saccade" is a rapid movement of the camera - when it moves so fast it blurs out the background. There are three, which are visible in the graph.

Of note here is that before the tracking actually starts (at "Acquire") the angle is still moving at a constant rate - this is because it is "ground stabilized", which means it attempts to point at a fixed region of the ground based on the angles of the camera and the altitude. This appears to result in the slight drift observed at the start, however the camera is still tracking relatively fast to compensate for the motion on the jet.

Update spreadsheet attached, dot tracking on second page.

EDIT: maybe the drift is because the system is using TAS and not ground speed?
 

Attachments

  • Go Fast Tilt tracking.xlsx
    266.9 KB · Views: 386
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Ground stabilization described here:
https://forums.vrsimulations.com/support/index.php/A/G_Advanced_Targeting_FLIR_(ATFLIR)
The "snowplow" pointing would result in a constant blur of the ocean surface, too fast to be useful at this FOV and speed.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Absent the fighter pilot's testimony, is there any evidence from the video alone that the "object" isn't a shadow on the ocean surface from a plane in the area. Would this explain why it's giving off no heat?
It's not a shadow as: A) it's detected by radar. B) shadow would not effect emitted IR from water. C) it's moving independently of the plane.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Note in my graph above, the "dot angle" starts matching the displayed camera angle (35°) but then varies, at the end it's 67° vs. the displayed 58°. So it's not exactly the same thing. Perhaps the difference relates to the bank angle? At the start the jet is pretty level, and at the end it's banked 20 degrees. So maybe the displayed angle (58°) is relative to the plane of the jet, and the other is relative to the horizontal plane?
 

Robert Kellogg

New Member
Does the horizon look warmer because it's actually warmer, or for the same reason it looks red during a total solar eclipse? The atmosphere scatters the blue light coming from the distant horizon, while the red and infrared light is more likely to reach you.
I posted papers on Black body radiation. It is back on page 2 or 3. I can't remember post number.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here's a graph of angle and radius (radius = distance from screen center)

The "radius" angle is related to the aircraft bank angle. If I overlay the bank angle on the above graph:

Metabunk 2018-03-17 14-20-27.jpg

We can see the where the bank angle is slowly decreasing towards the end, the indicator angle is decreasing - presumably because the object is getting closer.

One could subtract the two, with care. Exercise for the reader! :)
 

Getoffthisplanet

Active Member
Here is the raw X, Y, Z data for the entire video.

Code:
t[sec],	x [m],	y [m],	z [m],xDot [m/s],yDot [m/s],zDot [m/s], roll [deg]
  0.00,	   19,	   -0,	 7620,	189.83,	 -0.03,	  0.00, 1.528

Would it be too much effort for you to isolate just the X,Y,Z data, something like this: 19,-0,7620?

Otherwise, no big deal. I've just got some copy/paste'ing to do.

Also, your data is every 10th of a second? Is it possible to calculate X,Y,Z for each of the 1029 frames and in feet?
 
Last edited:

Justin Shaw

New Member
Would it be too much effort for you to isolate just the X,Y,Z data, something like this: 19,-0,7620?

Otherwise, no big deal. I've just got some copy/paste'ing to do.

Also, your data is every 10th of a second? Is it possible to calculate X,Y,Z for each of the 1029 frames and in feet?
As you requested:

Code:
x [m], y [m], z [m]
	  6.33,	  -0.00,	7620.00
	 12.66,	  -0.00,	7620.00
	 18.98,	  -0.00,	7620.00
	 25.31,	  -0.00,	7620.00
	 31.64,	  -0.00,	7620.00
	 37.97,	  -0.01,	7620.00
	 44.29,	  -0.01,	7620.00
	 50.62,	  -0.01,	7620.00
	 56.95,	  -0.01,	7620.00
	 63.28,	  -0.02,	7620.00
	 69.61,	  -0.02,	7620.00
	 75.93,	  -0.02,	7620.00
	 82.26,	  -0.03,	7620.00
	 88.59,	  -0.03,	7620.00
	 94.92,	  -0.03,	7620.00
	101.25,	  -0.04,	7620.00
	107.57,	  -0.04,	7620.00
	113.90,	  -0.05,	7620.00
	120.23,	  -0.05,	7620.00
	126.56,	  -0.06,	7620.00
	132.88,	  -0.06,	7620.00
	139.21,	  -0.07,	7620.00
	145.54,	  -0.08,	7620.00
	151.87,	  -0.08,	7620.00
	158.20,	  -0.09,	7620.00
	164.52,	  -0.10,	7620.00
	170.85,	  -0.10,	7620.00
	177.18,	  -0.11,	7620.00
	183.51,	  -0.12,	7620.00
	189.84,	  -0.13,	7620.00
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	607.47,	  -0.93,	7620.00
	613.80,	  -0.94,	7620.00
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	626.46,	  -0.97,	7620.00
	632.78,	  -0.98,	7620.00
	639.11,	  -0.99,	7620.00
	645.44,	  -1.01,	7620.00
	651.77,	  -1.02,	7620.00
	658.10,	  -1.03,	7620.00
	664.42,	  -1.05,	7620.00
	670.75,	  -1.06,	7620.00
	677.08,	  -1.07,	7620.00
	683.41,	  -1.09,	7620.00
	689.73,	  -1.10,	7620.00
	696.06,	  -1.11,	7620.00
	702.39,	  -1.13,	7620.00
	708.72,	  -1.14,	7620.00
	715.05,	  -1.15,	7620.00
	721.37,	  -1.17,	7620.00
	727.70,	  -1.18,	7620.00
	734.03,	  -1.19,	7620.00
	740.36,	  -1.20,	7620.00
	746.69,	  -1.22,	7620.00
	753.01,	  -1.23,	7620.00
	759.34,	  -1.24,	7620.00
	765.67,	  -1.26,	7620.00
	772.00,	  -1.27,	7620.00
	778.32,	  -1.28,	7620.00
	784.65,	  -1.29,	7620.00
	790.98,	  -1.31,	7620.00
	797.31,	  -1.32,	7620.00
	803.64,	  -1.33,	7620.00
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	816.29,	  -1.36,	7620.00
	822.62,	  -1.37,	7620.00
	828.95,	  -1.38,	7620.00
	835.28,	  -1.39,	7620.00
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	974.49,	  -1.64,	7620.00
	980.82,	  -1.65,	7620.00
	987.14,	  -1.66,	7620.00
	993.47,	  -1.67,	7620.00
	999.80,	  -1.68,	7620.00
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   1018.78,	  -1.71,	7620.00
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   1037.77,	  -1.74,	7620.00
   1044.09,	  -1.75,	7620.00
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   1069.41,	  -1.79,	7620.00
   1075.73,	  -1.80,	7620.00
   1082.06,	  -1.81,	7620.00
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   1094.72,	  -1.83,	7620.00
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   1107.37,	  -1.85,	7620.00
   1113.70,	  -1.86,	7620.00
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   1423.76,	  -2.30,	7620.00
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   1461.73,	  -2.35,	7620.00
   1468.06,	  -2.35,	7620.00
   1474.39,	  -2.36,	7620.00
   1480.72,	  -2.37,	7620.00
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   1493.37,	  -2.38,	7620.00
   1499.70,	  -2.38,	7620.00
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   1740.16,	  -2.09,	7620.00
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   1752.81,	  -2.04,	7620.00
   1759.14,	  -2.02,	7620.00
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   1778.12,	  -1.94,	7620.00
   1784.45,	  -1.91,	7620.00
   1790.78,	  -1.88,	7620.00
   1797.11,	  -1.85,	7620.00
   1803.43,	  -1.82,	7620.00
   1809.76,	  -1.79,	7620.00
   1816.09,	  -1.75,	7620.00
   1822.42,	  -1.72,	7620.00
   1828.75,	  -1.69,	7620.00
   1835.07,	  -1.65,	7620.00
   1841.40,	  -1.61,	7620.00
   1847.73,	  -1.57,	7620.00
   1854.06,	  -1.54,	7620.00
   1860.38,	  -1.50,	7620.00
   1866.71,	  -1.46,	7620.00
   1873.04,	  -1.42,	7620.00
   1879.37,	  -1.37,	7620.00
   1885.70,	  -1.33,	7620.00
   1892.02,	  -1.29,	7620.00
   1898.35,	  -1.24,	7620.00
   1904.68,	  -1.20,	7620.00
   1911.01,	  -1.15,	7620.00
   1917.33,	  -1.11,	7620.00
   1923.66,	  -1.06,	7620.00
   1929.99,	  -1.01,	7620.00
   1936.32,	  -0.96,	7620.00
   1942.64,	  -0.91,	7620.00
   1948.97,	  -0.86,	7620.00
   1955.30,	  -0.81,	7620.00
   1961.63,	  -0.76,	7620.00
   1967.96,	  -0.71,	7620.00
   1974.28,	  -0.65,	7620.00
   1980.61,	  -0.60,	7620.00
   1986.94,	  -0.55,	7620.00
   1993.27,	  -0.49,	7620.00
   1999.59,	  -0.43,	7620.00
   2005.92,	  -0.38,	7620.00
   2012.25,	  -0.32,	7620.00
   2018.58,	  -0.26,	7620.00
   2024.90,	  -0.21,	7620.00
   2031.23,	  -0.15,	7620.00
   2037.56,	  -0.09,	7620.00
   2043.89,	  -0.03,	7620.00
   2050.21,	   0.03,	7620.00
   2056.54,	   0.09,	7620.00
   2062.87,	   0.15,	7620.00
   2069.20,	   0.21,	7620.00
   2075.52,	   0.27,	7620.00
   2081.85,	   0.34,	7620.00
   2088.18,	   0.40,	7620.00
   2094.51,	   0.46,	7620.00
   2100.83,	   0.52,	7620.00
   2107.16,	   0.59,	7620.00
   2113.49,	   0.65,	7620.00
   2119.82,	   0.72,	7620.00
   2126.14,	   0.78,	7620.00
   2132.47,	   0.85,	7620.00
   2138.80,	   0.91,	7620.00
   2145.13,	   0.98,	7620.00
   2151.45,	   1.04,	7620.00
   2157.78,	   1.11,	7620.00
   2164.11,	   1.17,	7620.00
   2170.44,	   1.24,	7620.00
   2176.76,	   1.31,	7620.00
   2183.09,	   1.37,	7620.00
   2189.42,	   1.44,	7620.00
   2195.75,	   1.51,	7620.00
   2202.07,	   1.57,	7620.00
   2208.40,	   1.64,	7620.00
   2214.73,	   1.71,	7620.00
   2221.06,	   1.77,	7620.00
   2227.38,	   1.84,	7620.00
   2233.71,	   1.91,	7620.00
   2240.04,	   1.98,	7620.00
   2246.37,	   2.04,	7620.00
   2252.69,	   2.11,	7620.00
   2259.02,	   2.18,	7620.00
   2265.35,	   2.24,	7620.00
   2271.68,	   2.31,	7620.00
   2278.00,	   2.38,	7620.00
   2284.33,	   2.45,	7620.00
   2290.66,	   2.51,	7620.00
   2296.99,	   2.58,	7620.00
   2303.31,	   2.65,	7620.00
   2309.64,	   2.71,	7620.00
   2315.97,	   2.78,	7620.00
   2322.30,	   2.85,	7620.00
   2328.62,	   2.91,	7620.00
   2334.95,	   2.98,	7620.00
   2341.28,	   3.05,	7620.00
   2347.61,	   3.11,	7620.00
   2353.93,	   3.18,	7620.00
   2360.26,	   3.24,	7620.00
   2366.59,	   3.31,	7620.00
   2372.92,	   3.38,	7620.00
   2379.24,	   3.44,	7620.00
   2385.57,	   3.51,	7620.00
   2391.90,	   3.57,	7620.00
   2398.23,	   3.64,	7620.00
   2404.55,	   3.70,	7620.00
   2410.88,	   3.76,	7620.00
   2417.21,	   3.83,	7620.00
   2423.54,	   3.89,	7620.00
   2429.86,	   3.96,	7620.00
   2436.19,	   4.02,	7620.00
   2442.52,	   4.08,	7620.00
   2448.85,	   4.14,	7620.00
   2455.18,	   4.21,	7620.00
   2461.50,	   4.27,	7620.00
   2467.83,	   4.33,	7620.00
   2474.16,	   4.39,	7620.00
   2480.49,	   4.45,	7620.00
   2486.81,	   4.51,	7620.00
   2493.14,	   4.57,	7620.00
   2499.47,	   4.63,	7620.00
   2505.80,	   4.69,	7620.00
   2512.12,	   4.75,	7620.00
   2518.45,	   4.81,	7620.00
   2524.78,	   4.87,	7620.00
   2531.11,	   4.92,	7620.00
   2537.43,	   4.98,	7620.00
   2543.76,	   5.04,	7620.00
   2550.09,	   5.10,	7620.00
   2556.42,	   5.15,	7620.00
   2562.74,	   5.21,	7620.00
   2569.07,	   5.26,	7620.00
   2575.40,	   5.32,	7620.00
   2581.73,	   5.37,	7620.00
   2588.05,	   5.43,	7620.00
   2594.38,	   5.48,	7620.00
   2600.71,	   5.54,	7620.00
   2607.04,	   5.59,	7620.00
   2613.36,	   5.64,	7620.00
   2619.69,	   5.69,	7620.00
   2626.02,	   5.75,	7620.00
   2632.35,	   5.80,	7620.00
   2638.68,	   5.85,	7620.00
   2645.00,	   5.90,	7620.00
   2651.33,	   5.95,	7620.00
   2657.66,	   6.00,	7620.00
   2663.99,	   6.05,	7620.00
   2670.31,	   6.09,	7620.00
   2676.64,	   6.14,	7620.00
   2682.97,	   6.19,	7620.00
   2689.30,	   6.24,	7620.00
   2695.62,	   6.28,	7620.00
   2701.95,	   6.33,	7620.00
   2708.28,	   6.38,	7620.00
   2714.61,	   6.42,	7620.00
   2720.94,	   6.47,	7620.00
   2727.26,	   6.51,	7620.00
   2733.59,	   6.55,	7620.00
   2739.92,	   6.60,	7620.00
   2746.25,	   6.64,	7620.00
   2752.57,	   6.68,	7620.00
   2758.90,	   6.73,	7620.00
   2765.23,	   6.77,	7620.00
   2771.56,	   6.81,	7620.00
   2777.88,	   6.85,	7620.00
   2784.21,	   6.89,	7620.00
   2790.54,	   6.93,	7620.00
   2796.87,	   6.97,	7620.00
   2803.20,	   7.01,	7620.00
   2809.52,	   7.05,	7620.00
   2815.85,	   7.09,	7620.00
   2822.18,	   7.12,	7620.00
   2828.51,	   7.16,	7620.00
   2834.83,	   7.20,	7620.00
   2841.16,	   7.24,	7620.00
   2847.49,	   7.27,	7620.00
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   5573.19,	 176.40,	7620.00
   5579.45,	 177.31,	7620.00
   5585.71,	 178.22,	7620.00
   5591.97,	 179.14,	7620.00
   5598.23,	 180.05,	7620.00
   5604.50,	 180.97,	7620.00
   5610.76,	 181.89,	7620.00
   5617.02,	 182.82,	7620.00
   5623.28,	 183.75,	7620.00
   5629.54,	 184.67,	7620.00
   5635.79,	 185.61,	7620.00
   5642.05,	 186.54,	7620.00
   5648.31,	 187.48,	7620.00
   5654.57,	 188.42,	7620.00
   5660.83,	 189.36,	7620.00
   5667.08,	 190.30,	7620.00
   5673.34,	 191.25,	7620.00
   5679.60,	 192.20,	7620.00
   5685.85,	 193.15,	7620.00
   5692.11,	 194.11,	7620.00
   5698.36,	 195.06,	7620.00
   5704.62,	 196.02,	7620.00
   5710.87,	 196.99,	7620.00
   5717.13,	 197.95,	7620.00
   5723.38,	 198.92,	7620.00
   5729.63,	 199.89,	7620.00
   5735.89,	 200.86,	7620.00
   5742.14,	 201.84,	7620.00
   5748.39,	 202.82,	7620.00
   5754.64,	 203.80,	7620.00
   5760.89,	 204.78,	7620.00
   5767.15,	 205.76,	7620.00
   5773.40,	 206.75,	7620.00
   5779.65,	 207.74,	7620.00
   5785.90,	 208.74,	7620.00
   5792.14,	 209.73,	7620.00
   5798.39,	 210.73,	7620.00
   5804.64,	 211.73,	7620.00
   5810.89,	 212.73,	7620.00
   5817.14,	 213.74,	7620.00
   5823.38,	 214.75,	7620.00
   5829.63,	 215.76,	7620.00
   5835.88,	 216.77,	7620.00
   5842.12,	 217.79,	7620.00
   5848.37,	 218.81,	7620.00
   5854.61,	 219.83,	7620.00
   5860.86,	 220.85,	7620.00
   5867.10,	 221.88,	7620.00
   5873.35,	 222.91,	7620.00
   5879.59,	 223.94,	7620.00
   5885.83,	 224.97,	7620.00
   5892.08,	 226.01,	7620.00
   5898.32,	 227.05,	7620.00
   5904.56,	 228.09,	7620.00
   5910.80,	 229.13,	7620.00
   5917.04,	 230.18,	7620.00
   5923.28,	 231.23,	7620.00
   5929.52,	 232.28,	7620.00
   5935.76,	 233.34,	7620.00
   5942.00,	 234.39,	7620.00
   5948.24,	 235.45,	7620.00
   5954.48,	 236.51,	7620.00
   5960.72,	 237.58,	7620.00
   5966.95,	 238.64,	7620.00
   5973.19,	 239.71,	7620.00
   5979.43,	 240.78,	7620.00
   5985.66,	 241.86,	7620.00
   5991.90,	 242.94,	7620.00
   5998.14,	 244.02,	7620.00
   6004.37,	 245.10,	7620.00
   6010.60,	 246.18,	7620.00
   6016.84,	 247.27,	7620.00
   6023.07,	 248.36,	7620.00
   6029.31,	 249.45,	7620.00
   6035.54,	 250.54,	7620.00
   6041.77,	 251.64,	7620.00
   6048.00,	 252.74,	7620.00
   6054.23,	 253.84,	7620.00
   6060.46,	 254.95,	7620.00
   6066.69,	 256.06,	7620.00
   6072.92,	 257.17,	7620.00
   6079.15,	 258.28,	7620.00
   6085.38,	 259.39,	7620.00
   6091.61,	 260.51,	7620.00
   6097.84,	 261.63,	7620.00
   6104.07,	 262.75,	7620.00
   6110.30,	 263.88,	7620.00
   6116.52,	 265.00,	7620.00
   6122.75,	 266.13,	7620.00
   6128.97,	 267.27,	7620.00
   6135.20,	 268.40,	7620.00
   6141.42,	 269.54,	7620.00
   6147.65,	 270.68,	7620.00
   6153.87,	 271.82,	7620.00
   6160.10,	 272.97,	7620.00
   6166.32,	 274.12,	7620.00
   6172.54,	 275.27,	7620.00
   6178.76,	 276.42,	7620.00
   6184.99,	 277.58,	7620.00
   6191.21,	 278.73,	7620.00
   6197.43,	 279.90,	7620.00
   6203.65,	 281.06,	7620.00
   6209.87,	 282.22,	7620.00
   6216.09,	 283.39,	7620.00
   6222.31,	 284.56,	7620.00
   6228.52,	 285.74,	7620.00
   6234.74,	 286.91,	7620.00
   6240.96,	 288.09,	7620.00
   6247.18,	 289.27,	7620.00
   6253.39,	 290.46,	7620.00
   6259.61,	 291.64,	7620.00
   6265.82,	 292.83,	7620.00
   6272.04,	 294.02,	7620.00
   6278.25,	 295.22,	7620.00
   6284.47,	 296.41,	7620.00
   6290.68,	 297.61,	7620.00
   6296.89,	 298.82,	7620.00
   6303.11,	 300.02,	7620.00
   6309.32,	 301.23,	7620.00
   6315.53,	 302.44,	7620.00
   6321.74,	 303.65,	7620.00
   6327.95,	 304.86,	7620.00
   6334.16,	 306.08,	7620.00
   6340.37,	 307.30,	7620.00
   6346.58,	 308.52,	7620.00
   6352.79,	 309.75,	7620.00
   6358.99,	 310.98,	7620.00
   6365.20,	 312.21,	7620.00
   6371.41,	 313.45,	7620.00
   6377.61,	 314.68,	7620.00
   6383.82,	 315.92,	7620.00
   6390.02,	 317.17,	7620.00
   6396.23,	 318.42,	7620.00
   6402.43,	 319.67,	7620.00
   6408.63,	 320.92,	7620.00
   6414.84,	 322.18,	7620.00
   6421.04,	 323.44,	7620.00
   6427.24,	 324.70,	7620.00
   6433.44,	 325.97,	7620.00
   6439.64,	 327.24,	7620.00
   6445.84,	 328.51,	7620.00
   6452.03,	 329.79,	7620.00
   6458.23,	 331.07,	7620.00
   6464.43,	 332.35,	7620.00
   6470.62,	 333.64,	7620.00
   6476.82,	 334.93,	7620.00
   6483.01,	 336.23,	7620.00
   6489.20,	 337.53,	7620.00
   6495.40,	 338.83,	7620.00
 

Agent K

Active Member
Note in my graph above, the "dot angle" starts matching the displayed camera angle (35°) but then varies, at the end it's 67° vs. the displayed 58°. So it's not exactly the same thing. Perhaps the difference relates to the bank angle? At the start the jet is pretty level, and at the end it's banked 20 degrees. So maybe the displayed angle (58°) is relative to the plane of the jet, and the other is relative to the horizontal plane?

Is it the LOS Cue?
It sure does not behave that way in the Gimbal video. The dot moves up even though the elevation angle doesn't change.
 
Last edited:

Kaen

Member
Is it the LOS Cue?
It sure does not behave that way in the Gimbal video. The dot moves up even though the elevation angle doesn't change.

I have the feeling that the angles in the ATFLIR display are defined with respect to a reference plane that stays horizontal independent of the roll angle of the jet, while the LOS Cue does take the roll angle into account, i.e., it is a LOS Cue as seen from the cockpit.

Reasons for this feeling: The height of the object stays constant if you assume a reference plane that stays horizontal independent of the roll angle of the jet, and the horizontal angle in the display does not seem to shift much when the plane starts banking.
The LOS Cue, however, does seem to respond to a banking manoeuvre.
 

Justin Shaw

New Member
Reasons for this feeling: The height of the object stays constant if you assume a reference plane that stays horizontal independent of the roll angle of the jet, and the horizontal angle in the display does not seem to shift much when the plane starts banking.
I concur. I used true horizontal in my calculations after observing the same.
 

jarlrmai

Active Member
Thank you so much for this analysis. I brought it to Garry Nolan’s attention of the TTSA FB page and he has become convinced that you are right. Here is our exchange:
To be honest the focus thing is a red herring, the height of the plane the angle of the ATFLIR and the radar range are all incompatible with the object being just above the surface. This is simple trigonometry and requires no deep understanding of optics.
 

Simeon Hein

New Member
To be honest the focus thing is a red herring, the height of the plane the angle of the ATFLIR and the radar range are all incompatible with the object being just above the surface. This is simple trigonometry and requires no deep understanding of optics.
Can you explain your calculations a little further? What's your estimate of the height of the object?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Can you explain your calculations a little further? What's your estimate of the height of the object?
The basic math is in the first post.
I'm assuming RNG is a straight line, not horizontal distance, then that gives us:
4.4*sin(26 degrees) = 1.92 nautical miles below the plane
3.4*sin(35 degrees) = 1.95 nautical miles

So assuming those numbers are more or less accurate then it's an object that's around 13,000 feet ((25000 feet) - (1.95 nautical miles)) in altitude, viewed from a jet at 25,000 feet. Basically it's half way between the jet and the ocean surface.
 

Tom Mellett

New Member
To be honest the focus thing is a red herring, the height of the plane the angle of the ATFLIR and the radar range are all incompatible with the object being just above the surface. This is simple trigonometry and requires no deep understanding of optics.
Yes, I totally agree with you, but there are definite reasons beyond the scope of this thread why Garry Nolan was defending the calculations of Bruce Maccabee which mandate the object had to be flying at a speed of 360 knots only 100 ft. above the surface of the ocean. (It involves tracing the “provenance” of TTSA which goes through AATIP directly back to Bob Bigelow and his NIDS project for which Bruce Maccabee wrote an article in 1996 about the “impossible” high-speed maneuvers of UFOs.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20070210181457/http://www.nidsci.org/articles/maccabee/acceleration.html
Now read the TTSA page announcing the release of this video.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage/
Garry’s last hope to salvage the TTSA narrative about this object’s behavior was to seize on and cling to the “focal plane” issue, but to Garry’s credit, he is enough of a good scientist to be convinced by the “depth of field” consideration and realize now that the object could be at 13,000 feet and still be in acceptable focus.

I have yet to hear back from him, but I’m sure he is at least contemplating the necessity of advising TTSA that they once again must make a public admission of over-hyping their claims from strong confirmation bias that this object is a bona fide UFO under conscious control of a superior technological intelligence and not a supremely mundane object like a migratory bird or a weather balloon.

How best to sum up TTSA and their public image? I’ve grown fond of saying: Tom DeLonge is the Donald Trump of Disclosure.
 

Simeon Hein

New Member
Thanks guys for explaining the math again: that graph is extremely helpful Tom. You've really convinced me that it's a relatively slow-moving object of some kind miles up from the water.
 

Kaen

Member
Yes, I totally agree with you, but there are definite reasons beyond the scope of this thread why Garry Nolan was defending the calculations of Bruce Maccabee which mandate the object had to be flying at a speed of 360 knots only 100 ft. above the surface of the ocean.

Hi Tom, can you provide a link to Bruce's calculations? Or copy-paste them here?

Thanks!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here's a striking illustration of the variation in wind speed and direction from the surface up
Metabunk 2018-03-19 13-19-07.jpg
Metabunk 2018-03-19 13-23-39.jpg
Metabunk 2018-03-19 13-20-00.jpg
Metabunk 2018-03-19 13-20-18.jpg

All four at at the same position, just of the coast of San Francisco, California.

At the surface, it's 15 km/h from the east (90°)
at 700mb (about 10,000 feet) it's 15 km/h from the south (185°)
At 500mb (about 18,000 feet) it's 70 km/h from the west (260°)
at 250mb (34,000 feet) it's 165 km/h from the west (270°).
 

Tom Mellett

New Member
Hi Tom, can you provide a link to Bruce's calculations? Or copy-paste them here?

Thanks!
OK, I finally tracked down the Maccabee calculations, actually just a revision of his original calculations which he sent to someone on the TTSA FB group who then relayed that text to me.

 

Tom Mellett

New Member
A new article out by Billy Cox at De Void on the underwhelming rollouts of TTSA. But he really needs to be informed by the Metabunk crew here that TTSA is doing more than dragging their feet; they are making gross and embarrassing errors in analyzing the behavior of the object. He links to a Popular Mechanics article about the 3rd video but they make no calculations of the object speed or altitude!

http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/15641/ttsa-needs-new-game-plan

 

Kaen

Member
OK, I finally tracked down the Maccabee calculations, actually just a revision of his original calculations which he sent to someone on the TTSA FB group who then relayed that text to me.


Thanks! I think a big chunk of the 330 knots may be due to the speed of the jet combined with the parallax effect. The ATFLIR is 'locked' to a piece of the ocean while the jet speed is 250 knots. An object halfway the jet and the ocean would cross the small FOV pretty fast, even if it was stationary.
 

jarlrmai

Active Member
This is why getting the trigonometry height calculation out there as a key part of debate, any speed calcs based on a low height are incorrect as the height cannot be low and the math to work out the height is based entirely on information in the FLIR overlay (no assumptions reasonable or otherwise) and simple trigonometry which is taught in high school. making an assumption that the object is just above the ocean leads to flaws.

That statement is interesting as it reveals what they believe the FOV to be.
 

Tom Mellett

New Member
This is why getting the trigonometry height calculation out there as a key part of debate, any speed calcs based on a low height are incorrect as the height cannot be low and the math to work out the height is based entirely on information in the FLIR overlay (no assumptions reasonable or otherwise) and simple trigonometry which is taught in high school. making an assumption that the object is just above the ocean leads to flaws.

That statement is interesting as it reveals what they believe the FOV to be.
Thank you, @Kaen and @jarlrmai . Would you say then that BM’s speed calculations are correct, given his assumption that the object was so close to the ocean surface that parallax was not taken into account?

Then what would BM have calculated as the speed of the object IF he had used the correct parallax angle from an object at 13,000 ft altitude? As opposed to 100 ft. Altitude?

A better way of saying it, is what Parallax Angle did BM use and what Parallax angle did MB (Metabunk) use?

I’d like to be able to present the results to Garry Nolan and the TTSA FB group in as simple and concise a way as possible, and this seems to be another analysis that would use simple trig.

Could someone put together a graphic that would utilize “Parallax Scrolling” for both the BM and MB calculations to show what’s going on and thus vividly illustrate the discrepancy?

And, assuming BM’s calculations are correct, apart from the parallax issue, I’d like to see this result at the end

Therefore BM’s calculations of the object speed given his parallax angle is 380 kn
while MB’s calculation with their parallax angle gives _____ kn.
 

Kaen

Member
Thank you, @Kaen and @jarlrmai . Would you say then that BM’s speed calculations are correct, given his assumption that the object was so close to the ocean surface that parallax was not taken into account?

Then what would BM have calculated as the speed of the object IF he had used the correct parallax angle from an object at 13,000 ft altitude? As opposed to 100 ft. Altitude?

A better way of saying it, is what Parallax Angle did BM use and what Parallax angle did MB (Metabunk) use?

I’d like to be able to present the results to Garry Nolan and the TTSA FB group in as simple and concise a way as possible, and this seems to be another analysis that would use simple trig.

Could someone put together a graphic that would utilize “Parallax Scrolling” for both the BM and MB calculations to show what’s going on and thus vividly illustrate the discrepancy?

And, assuming BM’s calculations are correct, apart from the parallax issue, I’d like to see this result at the end

Therefore BM’s calculations of the object speed given his parallax angle is 380 kn
while MB’s calculation with their parallax angle gives _____ kn.

upload_2018-3-20_21-57-3.png

No trigonometry needed, just ratios.

Bruce did use the right object range, but forgot to compensate for the virtual speed that the object has due to the parallax effect.

The picture shows how the parallax effect causes a stationary object at altitude h1 to have a virtual speed as sea level of h1 x Vjet/h2. Here, Vjet is the jet’s true (ground) speed and the jet is at altitude h1+h2.

Bruce did not use this speed, but calculated an equivalent speed at the object’s altitude h1. The parallax effect will result in a (virtual, due to parallax) calculated speed for a stationary object of: Vjet x h1/(h1+h2).

The CAS (Calibrated Air Speed) of the jet is 250 knots. This results in a TAS (True Air Speed) of 370 knots at 25.000 feet. The jet’s ground speed Vjet equals TAS + wind speed. Wind speed is the great unknown here (see posts above), so we have to make an assumption.

If we assume 70 knots wind speed, so Vjet = 440 knots, a stationary object at 13.000 feet would already have a virtual calculated speed of 440 x 13.000/25.000 = 230 knots. So it already gets 230 knots for free, without having to do anything. This only leaves 100 knots for the speed of the object itself, which is in the same ballpark as the calculations done for the video part where the object was locked by the ATFLIR.
 

Agent K

Active Member
It's nice to have the range to the "UFO" for once. In the Nimitz "tic tac" encounter, I speculated that the tic tac was a weather balloon, and the pilot, David Fravor, overestimated the range to it and thought it was "mirroring" him by staying on the opposite side of a circle that his jet was tracing, when the tic tac was actually staying in the center of the circle.
 

Kaen

Member
It's nice to have the range to the "UFO" for once. In the Nimitz "tic tac" encounter, I speculated that the tic tac was a weather balloon, and the pilot, David Fravor, overestimated the range to it and thought it was "mirroring" him by staying on the opposite side of a circle that his jet was tracing, when the tic tac was actually staying in the center of the circle.

I don't think a balloon fits the description in the event log:

Fravor's narrative of these events:
A balloon would not be able to outrun an F18. Unfortunately the FLIR1 video does not show any unusual manoeuvre or speed, though it does seem to show an object resembling a capsule.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think a balloon fits the description in the event log:
The question is if the event log fits the objective events.

Here's a theory: occasionally, over the course of a decade, a pilot will lose situational awareness, but not realize it, and then later write down what he recalled observing. Occasionally this will coincide with ghost returns on a ship's radar, or some other event.

The absolute rejection of this entirely plausible theory is the basis for some interpretations of these videos. This rejection is based on a misplaced deification of the observations skills of people who are still actually human.

But in the current (GO FAST) video, and the GIMBAL video, we don't even have that. We just have a video of some pilots having fun locking onto random stuff they can't immediately identify.

In the NIMIZ (tic-tac) video we don't have that either. Fravor's recollection is not of the events shown in the video, and really should be treated as separate.

But this is the GO FAST thread.
 

jarlrmai

Active Member
Just to let you know I've been working on recreating the GO FAST video in Blender, It's amazing how similar to the video a 2 meter object at the ranges in the video looks in Blender through a square 1.5 degree FOV camera against a simulated ocean textured background. Also a brief animation of the camera moving in the forward axis only while tracking a stationary object exhibits a noticeable parallax effect.

When assuming how the ATFLIR camera tracks is there anything I should be taking in to account? Can I discount the roll of the aircraft as the camera compensates and translate the camera mount in the x,y,z only?
 

Tom Mellett

New Member
Hello @Kaen ! Thank you so much for that diagram above. It is really helpful to explain parallax effect to those unfamiliar with it.

However, before I ask you questions I have about the assumptions made in the diagram, I would like to drop back and punt because I just discovered on FB Bruce Maccabee’s Original calculations made on March 9. (You operated only from his revised calculations dated March 12.) Here is the text of his original calculations. Does it give you any more insight into his process? It looks like his original calculations were more in line with yours, but then I suppose he revised his calculations because it wasn’t fitting the original narrative of TTSA that the object must be moving fast 380 Kn at a low altitude of 100 ft)

 
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