Global March Against Chemtrails and Geoengineering

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
SoCal Skywatch (Syd Stevens) through one of his Facebook fronts is also trying to spread the disinformation in San Diego.... if anyone down there wants to refute the usual chemtrailer BS.


Capture.JPG
 

WYSIWYG

New Member
A big event on the 25th August apparently.

View attachment 3424

http://globalmarchagainstchemtrailsandgeoengineering.com/events.html


So anyone going? There is one near me in the metropolis of Burnley (sarcasm). I would have thought the university area of Manchester near by would have been a good place. Considering going, but it is quite early for me on a Sunday and I do like to cook a Sunday lunch followed by a cream tea later on. Any events near you??

I'm going
 
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David Fraser

Senior Member.
I was considering it, but am busy.

There's also something in Norwich I could get to, one of the talks that Bliss and co are hosting, but again timing has defeated me.
Hull FC are through to the Challenge Cup Final on the 24th. Its at Wembley and I am planning to make a weekend of it. There is a March in Hyde Park on that Sunday but I suspect I will still be hung over or still hammered. Either way I will not be in the mood for debate unless it comes with a fry up.
 

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
(ADMIN NOTE: This post is the OP from another thread, merged as it's on the same topic)

Just to make it clear for any anti-"chemtrail" activists reading this thread and finding it suspicious:

  • This is not any sort of "operation" for "targeting" the anti-"chemtrail" movement or any of its participants.
  • Any eventual information in this thread expressing interest to participate in the "march" is solely the thoughts of individual users wishing to participate.
  • This is not something 'Metabunk' or their administrators are organizing.
  • Any expressed desires to participate in any "march" on the 25th is for the purpose of an open, respectful and honest debate about facts. If anyone might express desires to ridicule the "march" that is not my intention of creating this tread.

With that said I would like to ask other users on Metabunk if anyone is planning to attend any of the "marches", either for simple curiosity, or in attempt to start a conversation about the subject with other participants?

I am actually planning on attending myself in my town, and try to start a debate on the subject with people who are open for discussion. It even seems like I'm lucky to find an esteemed anti-"chemtrail" celebrity as a guest speaker for this particular rally, but I don't think there is much point trying to debate this guy judging by his usual style of "debating". He is the kind you know would never sway in opinion even with mountains of counterarguments stacked against him. There is simply too much emotional investment involved it seems, but who knows? But I do hope I can start a debate with others at least, and have participants with me listening to my story. Perhaps even talk about what the sceptic movement online actually is—people interested in the untangling of misconceptions and errors. That there are actually many people out there who dedicate their spare time doing this without any sort of pay.

Because too often when trying to start a debate online you find it difficult to reach out to certain people simply because of the obscuration of whatever internet interface you interact through. In general, it's quite easy, if not say tempting, to accept the notion that people who seek to inform about misconceptions are actually "paid shills", or "disinfo" agents operating from some kind of government office. I would say meeting someone in person might not encourage such cheap reasons to avoid discussion from these people. Some might even realize that we are in fact ordinary people just like them, except with different views.

I've been thinking about things like; what kind of material would be good to bring to this march? I don't think simply stating "contrails can and do persist" will convince too many people. For example, would printing and handing out papers with the ten most common misconceptions about contrails be too provoking? I do believe that many of the attendees will take any chance they get to discard the information as "disinfo". Simply providing a link to Contrail Science would probably not convince many either (despite a very factual and informative site in my opinion), because from my experience these people have such a short attention span that education through independent study is simply too much to ask for. But they might have attention to follow an irl discussion face-to-face.

(Wearing a "Ask me about Contrails"-tshirt would probably not be a good idea either ;) )

However, as we are having a speaker I do think reading up on the speaker's arguments is a very good idea to see if there is any validity behind the claims or there are obvious errors you can point out.

So, does anyone else have plans to attend the "march"?

Edit: Just realized there is already a thread about this... Perhaps I could merge this post into the other one.
 
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captfitch

Senior Member.
I plan on going to the one in Dallas, dressed in my actual pilot clothes. I'll answer any questions, try to remain calm.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
I plan on going to the one in Dallas, dressed in my actual pilot clothes. I'll answer any questions, try to remain calm.
Bring someone, preferably large, to back you up. Just in case someone decides to get hostile.

That goes for anyone willing to get into a debate with any of these unreasonable people!
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
It seems very quiet down here in New Zealand. The active facebook Group changed status to "Closed Group", so without being clandestine you can't see what might be being organised. From what I can find that is visible on facebook or elsewhere, nothing. Not even in the hot-spots of Whangarei, Auckland, Nelson and Christchurch.

Maybe I need to organise the Wellington (capital city) one, and be my own guest speaker.
I am against atmospheric geoengineering. That's the common ground. I'll work from that point.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Ross, go to the Australian and New Zealand Geo-Engineering Protest Facebook page.

EVENT LOCATIONS - NEW ZEALAND - Aug 25th
AUCKLAND - Aug 25th
Meeting at Aeotea Square 3pm – See Vinnie Eastwood
NEW PLYMOUTH - Aug 25th
Telecom Car park, Cnr Eliot St and Devon St East, City on Saturday 25th August 2pm. March to Puke Ariki Landing then finish at Taranaki National Party Office Headquarters to present Letters and a Petition.
NELSON – Aug 25th
Details TBA
TAUPO – Aug 25th
Details TBA
WHAT TO BRING
If you can please bring a large banner, placards, flyers to hand out, costume attire such as face/gas masks, white suits, megaphones & bottled water. Please note these are peaceful protests anyone displaying aggressive behavior will be asked to leave. We plan to make lots of noise & be colorful to attract attention. We will be talking with the public afterward, education is the key to awakening.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
I may go to the Sydney one... I want to meet this guy... 1986??!?


Bill Bunting is going.
BECAUSE MY LIFE'S GOAL SINCE 1986 IS TO END GEO-ENGINEERING

Like · · Follow Post · July 21 at 6:22pm
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
Darn it I have a show that day in downtown Dallas. Have you checked out the Texas Chemtrail group?

Found this there about the Saharan dust cloud

Their site led me to this, not sure where exactly it goes

 

TomC

Member
Darn it I have a show that day in downtown Dallas. Have you checked out the Texas Chemtrail group?

Found this there about the Saharan dust cloud

Their site led me to this, not sure where exactly it goes


Guessing he didn't notice the planes when the sky was clear because they weren't leaving contrails.

The fact that an approaching front will significantly raise humidity levels in the upper atmosphere making persistent contrails almost a certainty seems lost on these people.
 

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
Guessing he didn't notice the planes when the sky was clear because they weren't leaving contrails.

The fact that an approaching front will significantly raise humidity levels in the upper atmosphere making persistent contrails almost a certainty seems lost on these people.

It's easy to see why these people believe the "weather modification" narrative. Problem is they start at the wrong end of the argument, thus making it seem like "chemtrails" are actually changing the weather.

Trails do not affect the weather. Weather affect trails. Approaching fronts are always followed by raised humidity and visible cloud formation.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Yep. I have a friend in Boston that I was saddened to find out buys into the whole HAARP/Chemtrail weather modification theory. I found that out when she was posting all over face book about the chemtrails being followed by storms. I attempted to explain that before airplanes existed to make trails and before satellites existed to look at the clouds from space, old timers used to look for cirrus clouds followed by altocumulus and alto stratus from the west to forecast coming frontal systems. Cirrus clouds coming from the east and south in august-october on the east coast of the US often told of approaching tropical cyclones. But she KNOWS that she is seeing cloud types that didn't exists before 1998 and that "they" are controlling the weather with chemtrails. She told me that I needed to wake up and that she was hurt that I would attack her like that when she was just trying to help people.
 
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scombrid

Senior Member.
Oh goody, I see that the chemtrailers are having a march a few minutes from my house over in Cocoa Beach. I don't think I'll make it though.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Yep. I have a friend in Boston that I was saddened to find out buys into the whole HAARP/Chemtrail weather modification theory. I found that out when she was posting all over face book about the chemtrails being followed by storms. I attempted to explain that before airplanes existed to make trails and before satellites existed to look at the clouds from space, old timers used to look for cirrus clouds followed by altocumulus and alto stratus from the west to forecast coming frontal systems. Cirrus clouds coming from the east and south in august-october on the east coast of the US often told of approaching tropical cyclones. But she KNOWS that she is seeing cloud types that didn't exists before 1998 and that "they" are controlling the weather with chemtrails.....
I just would not be able to cope with a friend like that. My eldest son had some friends around the other night. One of them is really into CTs and I over him say "You all need to wake up!!" loudly. Well I went in the room, grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and showed him out through the front door.

I am not having that sort of thing in my house.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
I've had to delete more than a few friends from my Facebook and/or cut ties all together because of their beliefs. I tried to talk some sense into a couple of them but I was just called a troll or that I trust anything the government tells me. Typical stuff. Probably the only reason I wasn't called a shill is because they know me personally.
 

captfitch

Senior Member.
Wow, looking at the number of people responding to the Facebook event page... If even half of those show up to the dallas march I'm going to be way outnumbered. And I'm wondering if putting on my pilot uniform will appear antagonistic? But otherwise I don't want to appear to be a supporter.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There's one near here, in Santa Monica,
https://www.facebook.com/GlobalMarchLosAngeles/page_map
I imagine there will be at least ten people there. I might go and chat with them.
 

Sausalito

Active Member
Wow, looking at the number of people responding to the Facebook event page... If even half of those show up to the dallas march I'm going to be way outnumbered. And I'm wondering if putting on my pilot uniform will appear antagonistic? But otherwise I don't want to appear to be a supporter.
An interesting and perhaps mortally important decision, hinging on the CT rabidity factor. The equivalent of showing up in an SS uniform? I wish you a safe and fruitful outing, please let us know how it goes down. My tentative plan is to type up and quietly hand out flyers in Austin (where I'll be visiting), but may end up being occupied with other (funner) things.
 

Steve

Senior Member.
There's one near here, in Santa Monica,
https://www.facebook.com/GlobalMarchLosAngeles/page_map
I imagine there will be at least ten people there. I might go and chat with them.

I went to the last Chemtrail meetup protest near the Farmers Market here in LA http://www.meetup.com/environment-391/
where only Kathy Ornstein was preaching even though they claim that 8 showed up. Kathy was going up to anyone passing by wearing her famous sandwich board chemtrail double faced protest sign. She was getting so worked up in her rants that she started to heavily drool which is not a particular attractive image to see in person. I did manage to talk to her a bit but because she is so convinced that I work the "Feds" she refused to hear anything I tried to say.
Two other new members did show up while I was there, one of which was dressed in a satirical western sheriff outfit complete with a little badge. After we talked for a few minutes and I explained why a contrail forms and can sometimes persist they just walked away from the whole scene. After a little while I left, leaving Kathy alone in her personal quest to persuade the passing citizens of the impending doom coming from the sky. It was kinda sad to see that no one was buying what she was selling. It might have been she just looked you know "funny".
 
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Skaredstiff

Member
There's one near here, in Santa Monica,
https://www.facebook.com/GlobalMarchLosAngeles/page_map
I imagine there will be at least ten people there. I might go and chat with them.
Mick,

Just a newbie here but really enjoy the debate!

Also sorry but I have looked around, "research" and have a hard time with the simple answer to this debate. Why, or has a study been done?, do not either side if this debate gather the funds and send an aircraft into numerous contrail clouds and sample the air? Seems like if this practice is so wide spread it would only take a few samples and a correlation could be established or rebuked?
Also I am finding that just about every debate on these type forums is a 2 bladed knife. In the end it is just paranoia, the truth, or as always something in the middle either right or left!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Mick,

Just a newbie here but really enjoy the debate!

Also sorry but I have looked around, "research" and have a hard time with the simple answer to this debate. Why, or has a study been done?, do not either side if this debate gather the funds and send an aircraft into numerous contrail clouds and sample the air? Seems like if this practice is so wide spread it would only take a few samples and a correlation could be established or rebuked?
Also I am finding that just about every debate on these type forums is a 2 bladed knife. In the end it is just paranoia, the truth, or as always something in the middle either right or left!

It would cost money to do such a study. The problem has always been getting enough evidence together to justify doing such a thing. Anyone with the wherewithal to do such a thing would presumably do some due-dilligence in the first place, and hence discover there is not really a case.

The first thing that would need to be done would be to build the case for such tests. With the current state of chemtrail "evidence", no such case can be made.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
It would cost money to do such a study. The problem has always been getting enough evidence together to justify doing such a thing. Anyone with the wherewithal to do such a thing would presumably do some due-dilligence in the first place, and hence discover there is not really a case.

The first thing that would need to be done would be to build the case for such tests. With the current state of chemtrail "evidence", no such case can be made.
There have been some studies which sampled directly from persistent contrails with aircraft. Such as Petzold et al. (1998), "Elemental composition and morphology of ice-crystal residual particles in cirrus clouds and contrails" in the journal Atmospheric Research. They weren't specifically testing the "chemtrails" idea, because as you say, there's no scientific reason to even suspect that it might be true. But they did analyze the elements found in persisting trails, as well as natural cirrus for comparison. As you might expect, the results were consistent with the idea that they were persistent contrails caused by jet exhaust.
 

Skaredstiff

Member
There have been some studies which sampled directly from persistent contrails with aircraft. Such as Petzold et al. (1998), "Elemental composition and morphology of ice-crystal residual particles in cirrus clouds and contrails" in the journal Atmospheric Research. They weren't specifically testing the "chemtrails" idea, because as you say, there's no scientific reason to even suspect that it might be true. But they did analyze the elements found in persisting trails, as well as natural cirrus for comparison. As you might expect, the results were consistent with the idea that they were persistent contrails caused by jet exhaust.
Brovao!!
So if it a matter of money it would seem that a zealous group could muster such research? Clearly that research would be subject to peer review?
With the premise of the CTrail theorists that everything is misinformation, or government fraudulent "cover up" ,would not believers wish to generate "proof" and disclose the findings for unbiased professional scrutiny?
I personaly would donate to the research from either side in this effort, but only if the study was able to pass the test of scientific methodology. There is simple way to make threads like this obsolete!
 

O_O

Member
Brovao!!
So if it a matter of money it would seem that a zealous group could muster such research? Clearly that research would be subject to peer review?
With the premise of the CTrail theorists that everything is misinformation, or government fraudulent "cover up" ,would not believers wish to generate "proof" and disclose the findings for unbiased professional scrutiny?
I personaly would donate to the research from either side in this effort, but only if the study was able to pass the test of scientific methodology. There is simple way to make threads like this obsolete!
This suggestion often makes CTers uncomfortable, in my experience.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
They would choose to ignore the results and then claim that the testers had been 'bought off' by the government/illuminati/Bill Gates/ the reptilians/????.

It is like with the anti GMO folks, they ignore any research that doesn't agree with their belief. The FDA, the EU or any university that does real research was 'bought off' or 'owned by Monsanto'.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
A big event on the 25th August apparently.

View attachment 3424

http://globalmarchagainstchemtrailsandgeoengineering.com/events.html


So anyone going? There is one near me in the metropolis of Burnley (sarcasm). I would have thought the university area of Manchester near by would have been a good place. Considering going, but it is quite early for me on a Sunday and I do like to cook a Sunday lunch followed by a cream tea later on. Any events near you??

If you pay my airline ticket to England, I'll go. Is it that Manchester?
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
It's easy to see why these people believe the "weather modification" narrative. Problem is they start at the wrong end of the argument, thus making it seem like "chemtrails" are actually changing the weather.

Trails do not affect the weather. Weather affect trails. Approaching fronts are always followed by raised humidity and visible cloud formation.

Well in my case the trails are already here before the rain does. Then we don't get no rain. This has been going on for a year. Well I was trying to upload some pics and its not working. i'll have to get some help and do this later.
 

TomC

Member
They would choose to ignore the results and then claim that the testers had been 'bought off' by the government/illuminati/Bill Gates/ the reptilians/????.

It is like with the anti GMO folks, they ignore any research that doesn't agree with their belief. The FDA, the EU or any university that does real research was 'bought off' or 'owned by Monsanto'.

The trouble is, you can't prove a negative. They would say that although we had proved the plane that was sampled was not spraying, we had not proved that all the others weren't.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Mick,

Just a newbie here but really enjoy the debate!

Also sorry but I have looked around, "research" and have a hard time with the simple answer to this debate. Why, or has a study been done?, do not either side if this debate gather the funds and send an aircraft into numerous contrail clouds and sample the air? Seems like if this practice is so wide spread it would only take a few samples and a correlation could be established or rebuked?
Also I am finding that just about every debate on these type forums is a 2 bladed knife. In the end it is just paranoia, the truth, or as always something in the middle either right or left!
Mick has answered already but it down to your hypothesis to get funding. A university would laugh you off campus if you wanted to prove chemtrails.

However there are so many otherer ways to research. One can do a review of all scientific papers and reach a conclusion from there. Chentrailers seem to be unable to do that or automatically dismiss data not in line with their belief
 
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