Fontus - self-filling water bottle (indiegogo scam campaign?)

[NoParty]

...we challenge you to join us and make a difference in a positive manner - and you can start by sending your resume here: info@fontus.at

Thank you, but at this stage in my life, I'd only consider a career change if the company looked to be around beyond 2017.
info@faux-us.at

 

[Adrin]

Fontus, what a long and eloquent way of responding to critics here but your post doesn't prove anything.

Just because your concept or company has been featured in mainstream media doesn't prove anything, either. The Zano Drone project at Kickstarter enjoyed plenty of media exposure too. Engadget shortlisted the Zano Drone for its best of CES 2015 award. Popular Science chose it as one of its 100 most amazing innovations of 2015. The Zano project ended up burning £2.3 million and seriously pissing off 12,000 backers.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35356147

The headlines you choose are clearly misleading too:

"World's First Self-Filling Water Bottle Launched by Austrian Startup Company Launches Crowdfunding Campaign on Indiegogo After 3 Years of Product Development"

How can you claim to have the world's "first self-filling water bottle" when you don't even have a working prototype?

Also, you are dodging important questions here asking if you can guarantee that your backers will receive products that will work as claimed.

You are also not answering questions about your patents.

 

[markh]

Fontus

...A crowdfunding campaign is not an online shop! Reward based crowdfunding is by definition support in form of donations from the crowd to come up with whatever costs an organization or person with a great idea need to make this idea become real.

Two issues:

One: you said you needed $30,000 to make your goal, so what are you going to use the $270,000 extra for?
considering;

First development stages and early testings are being already financed by the austrian government.

Two: If you are not a "online shop" why did you confirm this guys "order" without clarifying the concept of his "order" actually being a "donation"?


https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fontus-the-self-filling-water-bottles#/comments

Noble Nimmons12 days ago
Hey I am loving the concept and progress this product has been a part of and I was one of your first backers when then backing was made available on this cite. My question is, Since I live in the US should I be worried if my product has not been delivered to me yet? I can't tell you how excited I am but what has me concerned is that my order details are no longer stored on this cite.

Kristof RetezarCampaigner12 days ago
No worries, we have your order details (1x Airo). You need to consider though that according to our timeline, we will be shipping in April 2017.

 

[Hama Neggs]

Originally, the calculations for the water gathering rate at optimum conditions, were just that - calculations.

"Calculations" normally implies some sort of mathematical accuracy, but in your case I believe you are meaning something more like off-the-cuff "guesses". Is that correct?

However, at that time the focus was time was not on the technology itself - more of the design and concept.

I believe that is what people usually refer to as an unrealized "dream".

 

[txt29]

"Calculations" normally implies some sort of mathematical accuracy, but in your case I believe you are meaning something more like off-the-cuff "guesses". Is that correct?

I think the logic of the calculation of Mr. Retezár is as follows:

"When in optimal conditions I get one drop per minute, which is 3 milliliters per hour, then in real-life conditions I must get at least three hundred times more, so let's round it to 1 liter per hour"

That sounds logical, doesn't it?

 

[Mick West]

Two: If you are not a "online shop" why did you confirm this guys "order" without clarifying the concept of his "order" actually being a "donation"?

And similarly, @Fontus, why does your web site say you can pre-order a bottle?
http://fontus.at/

Why have a "Products" page for products that don't exist?
http://fontus.at/products/

And why does your products page say Fontus Airo will work in the mountains and the desert, where humidity is very low?

 

[NoParty]

I also question using a quote like this on the site:



Since the very earliest Apperle could "go on an adventure" with this hypothetical bottle is a year from now,
is he saying that he is suspending activity until it is (hopefully) available?

Wouldn't: "I have never gone on a single adventure with a Fontus bottle, but it seems a lovely idea, possibly, some day!"
be a much more accurate quote?
To quote him as saying that he will "never" do things without this bottle, seems to imply that it exists...

 

[Whitebeard]

I also question using a quote like this on the site:

View attachment 18963

Since the very earliest Apperle could "go on an adventure" with this hypothetical bottle is a year from now,
is he saying that he is suspending activity until it is (hopefully) available?

Wouldn't: "I have never gone on a single adventure with a Fontus bottle, but it seems a lovely idea!"
be a much more accurate quote?
To quote him as saying that he will "never" do things without this bottle, seems to imply that it exists...

It would be interesting to approach Mr Apperle directly and see what he says about it.

 

[Mick West]

Fontus is a Staff Pick (Team Favorite) on IGG:
https://www.indiegogo.com/campaign_collections/staff-picks

 

[Efftup]

It would be interesting to approach Mr Apperle directly and see what he says about it.

office@appi.at Or transalp@appi.at If you want to.

EDIT. Thought I might as well not be lazy and send an email myself to the first address.

 

[Mick West]

I was wondering if Fontus changed the language of their Indigogo campaign over time, unfortunately IGG is coded in a way that prevents both archive.org and archive.is from saving the pages. It also loaded the page content with Javascript so saving the page in Chrome (and probably other browsers) does not work.

Does anyone know if you can actually change the "Story" text on IGG? If so, it might be an idea to copy-and-paste it when discussing similar products. Just select the entire page, copy it, and paste

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Fontus - The Self Filling Water Bottles
Technology
Story Updates 5Comments 45Backers 1299Gallery 2
Embed
#adventure #sport #survival #bicycle #camping

Kristof Retezar

Technology
Irvine, California
United States
5 team members
Contact • See More Details

[paste:font size="3"]If you are an adventurer, you know the anxiety that comes with running out of water in the middle of a tour, the last thing you want is dehydration when you are miles away from home!
Fontus is a self filling water bottle that allows you to plan your adventures without having to worry about heavy water loads or where to find the next river or gas station to get your water supply.

Fontus will set your mind at ease and might even save your life! It will keep you hydrated during your travels and ready for improvisation!

We are a small start-up with a big vision!
[/paste:font]
By participating in this crowdfunding, you are helping us to finalize the development phase and run product and water analysis testing so that we can reduce the time needed to get from development to full scale production.

We are planning to increase new application specific products and scale up this technology into larger platforms that will be able to solve larger problems on our planet. It is our future intention to deploy our products to regions with water scarcity, offering solutions that have the potential to improve or even save life.

However, to get there we must start here. We thank you for your kind support!

Fontus Airo will save you trouble, weight and might even save your life!
This water bottle will refill itself while you are hiking, sailing, climbing, camping or just enjoyign nature.There is no need to worry any more about heavy water loads, plastic bottle waste or where to find the next river to fill up your bottle and get your daily water supply. This device gives you the freedom to plan your adventure without worriyng about the most elemental component of survival: water supply.

You can clip the Airo to a backpack and fill your bottle while you are hiking. Allow it to function while you are in motion, or just let it fill while sitting at a campsite!

• Light: Forget about carrying heavy water loads!
  
• Friendly: One water bottle rather than many disposable plastic bottles
• Charge your phone: USB connection on the solar mat
  
• Smart: Use what nature gives you
  
• Freedom: No need to plan your tour around water resources
• Capacity: Holds up to 0.8 liters
  
• Simple Design: Compact, comfortable, small and easy design
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  v
  
  

This device was designed to capture the moisture contented in the air, condense it and store it as safe drinking water.

A small fan draws the air from the surrounding environment, runs it through a special filter and presses it into the condensation chambers. A series of small coolers bring the moisture contained in the air to condense on special surfaces. The resultant liquid water then drops into the bottle´s main body and is stored.

Should you have concerns about still or stilled water, the lower section of the bottle is designed to carry little capsules, which dissolved in the harvested water, iniciate a process of re-mineralization. This process makes it possible to produce fresh mineral water and give your body everything it needs!

We believe it is easier to add vitamins and minerals specific to your needs into the water, rather than worry about what might already be in there waiting for you!

• 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  • 
    BY GETTING THE AIRO at the $225 LEVEL, YOU GET A SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION VERSION with special graphics and a note from the founders.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

Fontus Ryde is a self filling water bottle, especially designed to fit your bicycle!
This water bottle will refill itself as you ride on your bike. Its adapted design fits the ergonomics of your bike adopting the shape of a bottle holder. Harvest water while you are on your bike tour and stay regularly hydrated! This bottle uses the air stream you create while riding in order to press humid air into the system.

• Portable: Easily fits in your backpack
• Friendly: One water bottle rather than many disposable plastic bottles
• Green: Uses solar power
• Smart: Use what nature gives you
• Freedom: No need to plan your tour around water resources
• Simple Design: Compact, comfortable, small and easy design

This device was designed to capture the moisture contented in the air, condense it and store it as safe drinking water.

The air stream you generate while riding is used here in place of a fan to press large ammounts of air into the chambers without needing extra energy sources. It also supports the performance of small coolers at the heart of the device.

The air first runs through a special filter and is then pressed into the condensation chambers. The air is then condensed across a complex cooling subassembly. A series of small coolers powered by solar panels, attached at the sides, bring the moisture contained in the turbulent air to condense on special surfaces. Liquid water then drops into the bottle´s main body and is stored. This water can then be re-mineralized using special capsules.

BY GETTING THE RYDE at the $225 LEVEL, YOU GET A SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION VERSION with special graphics and a note from the founders.

Harvesting water from the air is a method that has been practiced for more than 2000 years. The Earth's atmosphere contains constantly around 13.000 km3 of mostly unexploited freshwater. This project is an attempt to discover these resources.

We all know the basics of extracting water out of the atmosphere: when we take a cold soda can out of the fridge in summer and little droplets form on the walls, making it look even fresher and us thirstier! A surface that has a lower temperature than the atmosphere makes the humidity, contained in gas form in the air, condense and change into a liquid state. At this point little drops of pure water form. When changing states, water, loses almost all additional elements it could have been combined with. This could be dust, minerals or bacteria.

Fontus aims to bring an alternative way of collecting safe drinking water to regions where drought and unclean water are a big issue. Bikes, as the most widespread means of transport in the world, especially in developing countries, seemed at the first brainstorming stages to be the perfect vehicles to combine with the invention.

Fontus Ryde and Airo might be a clever way of acquiring freshwater in regions of the world where groundwater is scarce but air humidity is high. They could work as a mobile water well, for example, providing a child with water for the day while riding to school, or providing essential water supplies during a longer camping trip.


Effectiveness of Fontus

Info graphic efficiency factors

The efficiency of the fontus bottles depends mainly upon the relative humidity of the air and the temperature. The higher the humidity and the temperature, the faster will the bottles fill themselves up.We cannot guarantee that Fontus will deliver a constant water output in all conditions and may produce little or no water at all under some conditions.


Early product development phases

Current status of technical development

The basic principles of the Fontus technology - atmospheric water generation through condensation - have been proven and tested in monitored conditions. With your support we will be able to enter into a higher development phase, optimize efficiency, refine the design and provide test data. After the successful completion of the expected design goal, we plan to integrate the technology into Fontus Airo and Ryde devices and validate the products with customers around the globe in real world conditions.

We want to specifically point out that all graphics, images and videos serve for illustrative purposes only and do not represent detailed or accurate data product results.

As we are unsure of the total product quantity to be ordered, we want to leave ourselves some room to meet the market demand. However, we will make every attempt to accelerate the time line as much as possible and be communicating with all of our first adopters by frequent progress updates as we move along each of the milestones.

• 
  
  
  
  
  Design Awards and Nominations
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  The Fontus Story
  Fontus is a young company in the start–up phase with its headquarters located in Vienna and a development site located in California. We are a motivated team composed of young members of different countries and disciplines such as industrial design, electrical and mechanical engineering, product development and international business operations.
  
  Our work has immediately attracted local and international recognition and has been appreciated through numerous design awards. In 2016, the Fontus project received financial support from the austrian government (AWS).
  
  Humbled by the enormous email inquiries and honored letters of support and encouragement, we are committed to bring our ideas to life and ready to face new challenges! Thanks for your kind support!
  
  
  
  Meet the Team
  
  
  
  
  
  FAQ
  How come international shipping is $75? The FONTUS bottles, both AIRO and RYDE are being shipped from the United States as an origin point. We have done everything we can to absorb as much of the shipping costs as possible.

• 
  How much water do the bottles produce? As humidity and temperature varies around the globe, we cannot guarantee an equal water output in all regions of the world. After final prototyping we plan to test the product under varying conditions that will encompass the different climates of the world and we will be able to provide you with test data on regional differences of water output. You can see our first estimation of effectiveness of Fontus in the info graphic above.
  
  Isn't distilled (or still) water unhealthy? There is much confusion around this topic. The water you harvest with the Fontus bottles is not distilled water, it has been condensed out of the atmosphere. Civilizations have been using a form of this technology for many years, we are just rebooting and modernizing it based on current technology to help more people. We believe that it is much easier to add in the vitamins and minerals you need into a clean water supply, rather than of worry about unknown potential chemicals and harmful agents that could already be in the local water source.
  
  Is the harvested water polluted? Atmospheric water is clean and does not contain harmful micro-organisms. The process of evaporating water and condensing it back is already itself a purifying process. This means, the water harvested by the Fontus bottles is already water in one of its purest states. However, Fontus was not designed to be used in urban and highly polluted areas. Currently the filters we have in place were designed to maximize airflow to the unit; so closer to IP54. Due to the overwhelming response we will be looking at the inclusion of an air, and if needed water filters for future models.
  
  What is the current status of technical development? The basic principles of the Fontus technology - atmospheric water generation through condensation - have been proven and tested in monitored conditions. With your support we will be able to enter into a higher development phase, optimize efficiency, refine the design and provide test data. After the successful completion of the expected design goal, we plan to integrate the technology into Fontus Airo and Ryde devices and validate the products with customers around the globe in real world conditions.
  
  How does the technology it work? We employ a technology that has been around for many generations that generates a condensed water molecule out of the air moisture. There are many companies that already offer a larger version of this technology. However we have focused on creating a smaller and more efficient version of the technology to allow for portable and personal use. We will not disclose any subsequent details as to the absolute specifics of how it functions.
  
  
  Can it be cheaper in the future to help with humanitarian missions? Yes, the intent of this project is to help generate the funding needed to finish the test validation and generate the component tooling to create a final version that is able to support more humanitarian aid missions. Our vision is to expand our product family and applications and focus on regions with water scarcity in the future.
  
  
  Why can't I select the color/size combination I want? Currently we are only offering what you see available online. However if you are signed up to the newsletter, you will be the first to know about the customization of products when that option becomes available.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  It is explicitly pointed out that the products which serve as Perks are in the development phase. It cannot be excluded that during the development phase technical, economical or other circumstances arise which may result in (i) a delay of the delivery of the Perk or (ii) the production and delivery of the Perk in a different form as regards functionality and/or design or (iii) even non-production of the Perk. In the latter case there will be no Perk delivered to the Contributor. Contributions will not be refunded. By making a Contribution the Contributors explicitly acknowledge the risks associated with the occurrence of one of the aforementioned events.
  
  
  
  
  Thanks for your support!
  
  
  Please follow Fontus on Social Media for all the latest updates.
  
  
  
  
  
  

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$305,676USD

1,019% of $30,000 flexible goal
1,299 backers
19 days left
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0 && !campaign.isInDemand()" class="i-perks-header i-campaign-section-header ng-binding ng-scope" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-family: 'Antenna Cond Black', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: 500; line-height: 38px; margin-top: 20px; margin-bottom: 10px; font-size: 30px; letter-spacing: 1px;">Select a Perk

Featured
$250 USD + Shipping
FONTUS AIRO
FONTUS AIRO AT THE NORMAL PERK LEVEL - GET 1 FONTUS AIRO - Be a part of history by owning the world's first self-filling water bottle!
107 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide

$25 USD
Just want to help
Be listed on the thank you page of our website! Every dollar counts toward affecting real world change.
2 claimed

$165 USD + Shipping
FONTUS RYDE - early bird
GET 1 FONTUS RYDE AT A SPECIAL EARLY BIRD DISCOUNT - Be a part of history by owning the world's first self-filling water bottle made for bicycles!
103 out of 200 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide

$225 USD + Shipping
FONTUS RYDE
FONTUS RYDE AT THE NORMAL PERK LEVEL - GET 1 FONTUS RYDE - Be a part of history by owning the world's first self-filling water bottle made for bicycles!
2 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide

$400 USD + Shipping
2 FONTUS AIROS
GET 2 FONTUS AIROS - at a special combined rate to save on shipping! Be a part of history by owning two of the world's first self-filling water bottles!
14 out of 250 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide

$450 USD + Shipping
ADVENTURER (1 AIRO + 1 RYDE)
GET 1 FONTUS AIRO + 1 FONTUS RYDE - Be the ultimate adventurer by owning the world's first self-filling water bottle and the world's first self-filling water bottle made for bicycles!
29 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide

$675 USD + Shipping
EXPLORERS (2 AIROS + 1 RYDE)
GET 2 FONTUS AIROS + 1 FONTUS RYDE - Show that you're a true explorer by owning a winning combination of the world's first self-filling water bottle and the world's first self-filling water bottle made for bicycles!
9 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide

$750 USD + Shipping
4 FONTUS AIROS
GET 4 FONTUS AIROS - at a special combined rate to save on shipping! Be a part of history by owning four of the world's first self-filling water bottles!
1 out of 250 claimed
Estimated delivery: April 2017
Ships Worldwide
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[txt29]

Does anyone know if you can actually change the "Story" text on IGG?

Yes, as I run the anti-Triton IGG campaign, I can confirm that it is trivial and quick to modify the text on the fly. Triton does it all the time.

 

[Mick West]

Building on the earlier posts about comparisons with Peltier dehumidifiers. It looked for those that draw about the 20W you could (optimally) get out of that solar panel. One of the closest unit found was this 27 Watt unit:
http://amzn.to/26FgRuh

The specification are:

• Quiet Operation w/Dehumidifying Capacity of 12 Ounces a Day at 86°F, 80% RH
• Measures Just 5.9" x 7" x 7.16" - Perfect Choice for Spaces up to 200 Square Feet

12 Ounces is 0.35L, in 24 hours, at 86°F, 80% RH, Fontus claims to be able to get that much in 30 minutes. at 70% RH. Basically over 50x as fast.

Judging by the reviews, the Ivation unit works just as specified. It's just about 10x the size and 1/50th the efficiency of the Fontus claims.

@Fontus, can you address the fact that you are claiming efficiency gains of a factor of 50 over current Peltier dehumidifiers?

 

[txt29]

And, BTW, Archive.org can store IGG pages, and there are couple of versions of the Fontus campaign too:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/https...rojects/fontus-the-self-filling-water-bottles

EDIT: the copies are not complete - see post #56 for details - only the right column on the archived IGG pages is truly archived. The left column is always loaded from the live IGG server. It means you can only detect changes in perk descriptions, not in the campaign text.

 

[txt29]

It might be also interesting to see whether Fontus suppresses uncomfortable questions from their comment page. @exclamationMarek wrote a bot that records every comment of the Triton campaign, and posts it on Twitter automatically when the comment is deleted. Since he published it, Triton stopped deleting the comments, because it is a violation of the TOS of IGG, and would lead to the termination of the campaign. Perhaps he could offer the script also for Fontus.

 

[txt29]

So after checking and comparing several archived copies of the Fontus (and also of the Triton) campaign at Archive.org, I can confirm that older copies load correctly the original old right column of the old page (the total amount, the perks description, prices, and purchased amount), but not the campaign text in the left column - the text is always being loaded by a javascript from the live version. It looks like an intent by IGG, helping so scammers - evidence about their lies cannot be easily archived.

 

[David Byrden]

I tried to summarise the overly long Fontus post from the 28th, like so:

"This was an Industrial Design project, all about colour, shape and convenience. We didn't work through the physics of it, we just dreamt up and published impossible performance figures. Stop picking at them! You should ignore them!
"The public and some institutions and media then got sucked in. We didn't tell THEM to ignore the fantasy numbers. In fact, we still haven't published realistic figures.
"Now, we want you to mentally associate Fontus with these words: positive, challenge, innovation.
And associate our critics with the following words: toxic, complain, keyboard warrior."

Is that a fair summary?

 

[NoParty]

I tried to summarise the overly long Fontus post from the 28th, like so:

"This was an Industrial Design project, all about colour, shape and convenience. We didn't work through the physics of it, we just dreamt up and published impossible performance figures. Stop picking at them! You should ignore them!
"The public and some institutions and media then got sucked in. We didn't tell THEM to ignore the fantasy numbers. In fact, we still haven't published realistic figures.
"Now, we want you to mentally associate Fontus with these words: positive, challenge, innovation.
And associate our critics with the following words: toxic, complain, keyboard warrior."

Is that a fair summary?

I appreciate the thought...but I believe it's generally best to let people's own words speak for them...
(few of us would want to have to address someone else's version of what we say)

 

[tinkertailor]

It's particularly heinous that they allow Fontus and Watly to "share" the same space.

(...)

One wants to provide water in central Africa for families survival. The other wants to give free water to middle class bikers.

One is being backed for $18K so far (only a couple of days) and the other is being backed for $300K (little more than 1 week).

And both share the same space in Indiegogo.

I have been following this thread for a while, and this thought keeps disturbing me.
If Fontus is as magical as their IGG claims, the technology could save millions of lives in the US and abroad. The children being exposed to toxic water in Flint, Michigan could drink water that wouldn't poison them. Homeless people would have clean water to drink. Poor families in apartments with uncaring landlords could hydrate themselves. Families in developing countries could grow food, stay hygenic and drink water, saving millions. Doctors Without Borders could have clean water for washing and distributing formula to babies.
According to Fontus, this technology is available (?) and/or not available (?!) but accessible in the future (I might be confused, but it sounds like it's Schrodinger's water bottle to me...).
Now, with this incredible technology, the answer to major problems the world over, what does Fontus do?
Crowdfunding. Marketing an expensive item to people who have a fairly expensive hobby: biking. They could go straight to an organization with clout and some funds, like UNICEF or even the UN, and say "hey, we know how to do this but we need some help, it would save lives", get the product created and the tech down, manufacture it for needy people (for a slight profit) and THEN market it to cyclists and backpackers, using the profits to manufacture, but instead they go for the crowdfunding. I just don't get it.
IFLScience should change their name for endorsing this thing, too.

 

[exclamationMarek]

It might be also interesting to see whether Fontus suppresses uncomfortable questions from their comment page. @exclamationMarek wrote a bot that records every comment of the Triton campaign, and posts it on Twitter automatically when the comment is deleted. Since he published it, Triton stopped deleting the comments, because it is a violation of the TOS of IGG, and would lead to the termination of the campaign. Perhaps he could offer the script also for Fontus.

I had a bot scanning the comments of Fontus for a few days at the very beginning of their campaign, but there was almost no comment activity and zero deletions. I can set it up again, maybe even attach to the twitter handle @IndieCensor I parked some time ago. I'll do it this evening, Stockholm time

 

[Gridlock]

I *believe* IGG's intention for the slightly strange way the main body content is loaded is to thwart scraper sites, who otherwise copy and repost that content to try and gain search engine traffic. While looking for alternate archives I found dozens of scraper sites even so.

So,

1) I wouldn't assume malice on the part of IGG for this
2) Older versions of that content will exist somewhere on various scraper sites, but finding it is tricky, especially if you don't already have a text fragment etc from it to start searching.

You can see a few examples (using current text) here. Another way you can find scraper sites is using a reverse image search.

 

[Whitebeard]

I have been following this thread for a while, and this thought keeps disturbing me.
If Fontus is as magical as their IGG claims, the technology could save millions of lives in the US and abroad. The children being exposed to toxic water in Flint, Michigan could drink water that wouldn't poison them. Homeless people would have clean water to drink. Poor families in apartments with uncaring landlords could hydrate themselves. Families in developing countries could grow food, stay hygenic and drink water, saving millions. Doctors Without Borders could have clean water for washing and distributing formula to babies.
According to Fontus, this technology is available (?) and/or not available (?!) but accessible in the future (I might be confused, but it sounds like it's Schrodinger's water bottle to me...).
Now, with this incredible technology, the answer to major problems the world over, what does Fontus do?
Crowdfunding. Marketing an expensive item to people who have a fairly expensive hobby: biking. They could go straight to an organization with clout and some funds, like UNICEF or even the UN, and say "hey, we know how to do this but we need some help, it would save lives", get the product created and the tech down, manufacture it for needy people (for a slight profit) and THEN market it to cyclists and backpackers, using the profits to manufacture, but instead they go for the crowdfunding. I just don't get it.
IFLScience should change their name for endorsing this thing, too.

That is a common theme with a lot of these 'miracle technologies', if they were true they could change the world, free energy for all, free water for all etc etc, But they would rather aim their products at the trendy new age market rather than organisations and groups who could do good with them.

This makes me think that the developers of these miracles are either massive sociopaths who care more about the bucks than humanity, or grubby little con-artists who target the gullible rather than risk examination of their iffy tech by experts in the field.

 

[txt29]

1) I wouldn't assume malice on the part of IGG for this
2) Older versions of that content will exist somewhere on various scraper sites, but finding it is tricky, especially if you don't already have a text fragment etc from it to start searching.

1. More than preventing scrapper sites, it looks that the script is tailored to always show the live version over the original one. It would not harm scrappers, it would help them keeping the content up-to-date. In contrary, it prevents the archiving by common archive services.
2. Yes, that's better than nothing, but unfortunately, scraper sites cannot really serve as evidence for demonstrating what Fontus changed in their campaign - you cannot know if it was not modified elsewhere, and often you cannot date it either.

 

[huwp]

That is a common theme with a lot of these 'miracle technologies', if they were true they could change the world, free energy for all, free water for all etc etc, But they would rather aim their products at the trendy new age market rather than organisations and groups who could do good with them.

Sure, because if an organisation stands to invest hundreds of thousands into something they might require some proof that it works first. * And if they got ripped off hundreds of thousands, they have plenty of incentive to go after the scammers properly.

Trendy new age market types separately getting ripped off a few hundreds are going to get individually angry, but are going to form a toothless opposition.

This makes me think that the developers of these miracles are either massive sociopaths who care more about the bucks than humanity, or grubby little con-artists who target the gullible rather than risk examination of their iffy tech by experts in the field.

...Or both.

(* Edit: note, this doesn't necessarily apply to government sponsorship, since they aren't spending their own money, and are just spending it to 'stimulate innovation' or some such anyway. So don't put any weight behind fontus' claims to have government sponsorship.)

 

[tinkertailor]

(* Edit: note, this doesn't necessarily apply to government sponsorship, since they aren't spending their own money, and are just spending it to 'stimulate innovation' or some such anyway. So don't put any weight behind fontus' claims to have government sponsorship.)

Excellent point, gives me an idea!
Fontus makes a bunch of claims as to the legitimacy of their product:

(this includes the austrian government that is officially supporting Fontus with funds, we are working in cooperation with the technical university of München, Germany, we have been selected as international Top 20 for the James Dyson Award where projects go through thorough examination by an engineers team, we have won several design awards including Gold for the International Design Award and we have been featured by serious press such as the TIME magazine, Focus, Der Standard, ORF2, engadget, the huffington post, etc)

These can all be researched and verified if true, correct?
I'm not sure of the response time of the Austrian government, but perhaps one of our debunkers in the EU could attempt to contact them?
They were selected as a top 20 project for the James Dyson Award, but I can't seem to find information on the item being looked at by engineers: http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/projects/fontus-2/

How It Works
Fontus can be applied in two different areas. Firstly, it may be interpreted as a sporty bicycle accessory. Useful on long bike tours, the constant search for freshwater sources such as rivers and gas stations can cease to be an issue since the bottle automatically fills itself up.

Secondly, it might be a clever way of acquiring freshwater in regions of the world where groundwater is scarce but air humidity is high. Experiments suggest that the bottle could harvest around 0,5l water in one hour's time in regions with high temperature and humidity values.

How it works:
In order to achieve condensation, one must cool hot, humid air down. The device has a small cooler installed in its centre called Peltier Element. This cooler is divided in two: When powered by electricity, the upper side cools down and the bottom side gets hot. The more you cool the hot side down, the colder the upper side will get. Consequently, these two sides are separated and isolated from each other.

The air enters the bottom chamber at a high speed when moving forward with the bike and cools the hot side down. Moreover, when the air enters the upper chamber it is stopped by little walls perforated non-linearly, reducing its speed in order to give the air the needed time to lose its water molecules.

The condensing structure represents the largest surface in the smallest space possible. This provides a large surface for condensation to happen. Droplets then flow through a pipe into a bottle. The bottle can then be turned to a vertical position and losened. Every kind of PET 0,5l bottle fits.

Stages of Development
I conducted a series of experiments trying to identify the ideal conditions, materials and cooling systems. I simulated different climatic conditions in my bathroom, modifying the air temperature and humidity. After more than 30 experiments, I finally achieved a constant drop-flow of one drop of condensed water per minute. After developing a functioning inner system, I designed a compact and practical hull which can be easily attached to a bicycle, integrates the water bottle and can be comfortably handled.

Can't help but notice the use of present tense in this write-up, as if the bottle does indeed actually exist... That could be due to language differences, but it is interesting.
but what do I know? I'm just a 'keyboard warrior'

 

[NoParty]

I have been following this thread for a while, and this thought keeps disturbing me.
If Fontus is as magical as their IGG claims, the technology could save millions of lives in the US and abroad. ...
Now, with this incredible technology, the answer to major problems the world over, what does Fontus do?
Crowdfunding. ...

I had a similar thought:
Living here in California, through this brutal 4-year drought, my first thought was:
"If that technology worked anywhere near as well as Fontus claims, CA should've been employing it since 2012."

Of course, it simply doesn't.




Now, evidently on Tatooine those white towers the "moisture farmers"
use are called "moisture vaporators" and they really work, and can be had
for just 200 Republic credits, to LandoStarterPBC

 

[Landru]

I had a similar thought:
Living here in California, through this brutal 4-year drought, my first thought was:
"If that technology worked anywhere near as well as Fontus claims, CA should've been employing it since 2012."

Of course, it simply doesn't.




Now, evidently on Tatooine those white towers the "moisture farmers"
use are called "moisture vaporators" and they really work, and can be had
for just 200 Republic credits, to LandoStarterPBC

View attachment 18987

I was going to post the same image but I had to go into town for power converters.

 

[huwp]

Can't help but notice the use of present tense in this write-up, as if the bottle does indeed actually exist... That could be due to language differences, but it is interesting.

It is just cunning wording. At the top, they say 'Fontus may be interpreted as...' and 'it might be...', and if challenged they can say they were only referring to the concept. Then they describe how dehumidifiers work in a general sense, and the reader is left to make the inference that 'the device' refers to a Fontus. The trick is to make the reader think they have read something, without actually quite writing it.

 

[NoParty]

It is just cunning wording. At the top, they say 'Fontus may be interpreted as...' and 'it might be...', and if challenged they can say they were only referring to the concept. Then they describe how dehumidifiers work in a general sense, and the reader is left to make the inference that 'the device' refers to a Fontus. The trick is to make the reader think they have read something, without actually quite writing it.

Yes, they're using pretty slippery words through most of it...
that's why I focused on the wording of the Apperle quote (Post #47):
The phrasing there just completely abandons the "may be," "might be" cunning,
and absolutely implies that it already exists, that Apperle uses it, and Apperle has become so dependent on it that he will no longer "go on an adventure" without a Fontus bottle.

Some of the earlier word dancing could be defended in court, I think, but the Apperle quote looks like clear-cut
deception to me. (I could see someone try to hide behind a "It's just an awkward translation" argument:
I don't know if Apperle speaks any English...but the guys who posted it on Fontus' site surely do,
and they had to know how hugely misleading that quote is...)

 

[huwp]

Some of the earlier word dancing could be defended in court, I think, but the Apperle quote looks like clear-cut deception to me.

Dunno - it is presented as a quote - they could just say "he said it, not us, we are just quoting what he said!". And in any case the quote is "i will never go..." not "I now never go" which makes it future tense and not a current statement.

 

[Efftup]

Dunno - it is presented as a quote - they could just say "he said it, not us, we are just quoting what he said!". And in any case the quote is "i will never go..." not "I now never go" which makes it future tense and not a current statement.

I haven't had a reply to my email yet. will let you know if I do

 

[markh]

It looks like things have shifted in their youtube comment section.

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyHuWNUO7k&google_comment_id=z13vtvlzcsrqsvk1p22kcfmrqqyfun0oq04"

and

" https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=4ZKPcVZ9tUs "

evan Reed1 hour ago
These scam are really profitable.




mumbairay1 hour ago
when you scamming, disable the comments you tool




engineeredlifeform5 hours ago
So, in any of the three scenarios shown in the promo video, there are water sources. Like the snow and meltwater surrounding the mountain biker, the salty sea water that just need desalination (four times less energy consumption that dehumidifying) and the lush green forest where there must be a stream or groundwater, as trees need a lot of water.




Andre Maas5 hours ago
University of Applied Arts Vienna - no wonder this thing is hilariously inefficient. Due to its wiki page, they don't even have a Physics or Engineering department. It just looks cool. Maybe they should consult their neighbors of the Vienna University of Technology




G June367 hours ago
Search for the video "Fontus Water bottle claims to make water from air. Is it possible?" You idiots done it again. Giving con arts hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Dan Wilson]

Thunderf00t just did a nice debunk of this.

 

[markh]

I never realized how much a video could affect the perception of a product or idea. Things don't look good for the Fontus guys.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fontus-the-self-filling-water-bottles#/comments

Kalidor5 hours ago


- Can not work as advertised →
- Product already exist, does some few mililiters of water per day →

Kalidor5 hours ago
If you want a refund goto User profile -> Contributions -> View Order Details -> Refund Order

L Becht15 hours ago
@Guy: I'm out too.

Guy Raz22 hours ago
After watching this video, I'm out. A wise, informed investment with a viable potential ROI is one thing – throwing away my hard-earned money on an impossible product is quite another. I urge all backers to watch this video and reach their own informed conclusions.



This comment was posted as a public service in the spirit of CAVEAT EMPTOR without any malice toward the campaign owner or other backers.

I'm glad to see a change.

 

[txt29]

I'm glad to see a change.

Hm, I am not quite sure whether we can really speak about any change yet. Both users, Kalidor and Guy Raz, were very active in criticizing the Trition scam too, so I think that making any conclusions about the trends in backing Fontus, or about the influence of the debunking videos, is a bit premature. Both of the commenters are debunkers self, and although the critics is important for informing the uneducated public, it does not mean the average backer will follow too.

 

[My1]

well I would say that this thing is pretty funny. first we have triton that pulls air out of water and now we have fontus which dioes the exact opposite.

but unlike triton fontus DOES work, even if not even remotely as fast as advertised. trotons basics also make sense at first glance but the fact that this thing cannot produce the amount you need wont kill you in case of fontus the worst thing is that you can over-rely on it and not have water but it wont kill you so easily.

 

[exclamationMarek]

Depends on what you define as "works" for fontus. They promote it as a reliable source for drinking water for hikes, which it most certainly won't be. Optimistically and in good condition it would be able to produce 100ml of water per day - not only is this by far not enough to drink on a single day hike, but it is likely less than the weight of the unit. You would simply by better of by just taking water. You can't rely on this at all, it will never be enough water. In this sense, the device does not work as promoted at all.

There's even a chance that the water would evaporate quicker than it's being produced. After all, the container can't be sealed for the device to work, and practically needs to be placed in the sun.

 

[Efftup]

Depends on what you define as "works" for fontus. They promote it as a reliable source for drinking water for hikes, which it most certainly won't be. Optimistically and in good condition it would be able to produce 100ml of water per day - not only is this by far not enough to drink on a single day hike, but it is likely less than the weight of the unit. You would simply by better of by just taking water. You can't rely on this at all, it will never be enough water. In this sense, the device does not work as promoted at all.

There's even a chance that the water would evaporate quicker than it's being produced. After all, the container can't be sealed for the device to work, and practically needs to be placed in the sun.

Absolutely. When you take a look at the promo video with the cyclist, he could just have a full water bottle instead. It would be instantly available to him, and he would not need to worry about the humidity and temperature or waiting a few hours while thirsty for the thing to heat up.

 

[Adrin]

This is a bit off topic but somewhat related I guess -- Peachy Printer Co-Founder embezzles $324,000 of funds that were raised at Kickstarter (roughly half of the total amount raised) to build a big house for himself.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc/posts/1572573

It's funny how these companies can come up with slick and stylish marketing videos to promote their crowdfunding campaigns and produce videos to apologize to their backers in the same style. I can see that Retezar dude coming up with a similar video 2 years from now explaining why their product doesn't work and telling angry backers to just get some oversized dehumidifiers instead.

It's probably gonna be very Apple-ish and filmed at some lush forest in the Austrian Alps with Retezar in casual wear in a Zen moment of realization.

 

[skephu]

Another nice debunk from Dave Jones of EEVblog