Flight MH17 News

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Mick West

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Staff member
Interesting change of tune by Air India - seems like they were not aware that FlightRadar24, etc, would show everyone exactly where their plane was. They probably just did not want to alarm people.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...Airlines-Flight-MH17/articleshow/38702536.cms

 

vooke

Active Member
And probable data recorders found
http://rt.com/news/174204-ukraine-flight-recorders-plane/
 

Libertarian

Banned
Banned
Black Box recovery caught on tape:
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
So he uses the timestamp issues as well. But what experts proved they're a montage?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
US embassy says the recordings are authentic.


More alleged recordings. Slightly more skeptical about these ones. Would they really be saying stuff like "Moscow wants to know... Moscow says...", seems a little weird.
Probably real though.
 

qed

Senior Member
Old but interesting.
guardian.com
 

Jason

Senior Member
More alleged recordings. Slightly more skeptical about these ones. Would they really be saying stuff like "Moscow wants to know... Moscow says...", seems a little weird.
Probably real though.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-purport-to-implicate-Russia-in-cover-up.html

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing Pete. Why in the world would they be talking like this on cell phones, especially after the news about them being recorded previously. But then I got to thinking, maybe all they get in that part of the world is Russian media. Russian media is implicating the Ukranian Government, so maybe the separatist have no idea whats going on in the western media.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Also it should be reported that the fighting started back up today during the morning news while I was watching CNN's Chris Cuomo. There are reports that the Russian Separatist that were present at the crash site had to leave to reinforce their fighters on the front line. You could see smoke rising in the background a few miles from him. It seems, or at least he's reporting that the Ukranians seem to be taking advantage of the situation since the Russians aren't sending help over the border with the ongoing investigation.

He also interviewed the Rebel Leader who adamantly denies they had anything to do with the plane being shot down; http://newday.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07...e-didnt-have-any-motive-to-target-this-plane/
 

Sgt.Tinfoil

Member
Also it should be reported that the fighting started back up today during the morning news while I was watching CNN's Chris Cuomo.
Actually heavy fightings started just after the crash and Ukrainian Army started the biggest shellings of residental areas in the whole war.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Actually heavy fightings started just after the crash and Ukrainian Army started the biggest shellings of residental areas in the whole war.
Sorry but that video clip doesn't prove "Ukranians started the biggest shelling of the war" on residential areas after mh17 crashed. Honestly it looks like dirt was kicked up, like what you see when vehicles drive on dirt roads. I didn't hear shelling or explosions. No time stamp and its in Russian.
 

Sgt.Tinfoil

Member
Sorry but that video clip doesn't prove Ukranians started the biggest shelling of the war on residential areas after mh17 crashed.
You are absolutely right. I should have not said that. I was just reading some news about the shellings to residental areas so to me it sounded like biggest ones this far.

Honestly it looks like dirt was kicked up, like what you see when vehicles drive on dirt roads.
Absolutely true. Then again we know that residental areas are being bombed so I will go with that and not for example dirtbike racers meetup.
These links might have GRAPHICAL CONTENT AND NOT SUITABLE FOR EVERYONE
http://ban.jo/News/Europe/20140718/Many-Killed-In-Lugansk-Shelling-Luhanska/
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html?wpmk=MK0000205

Washington Post - rebels are handing over the black boxes to Malaysian authorities.

Although I can't imagine how much importance the black boxes will have (as opposed to, say, MH370's).
 

qed

Senior Member
There is something else interesting in Josh's link above.

Does anyone know if this is true? That the rocket could only be targeted with a radar outside of the Ukraine?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Does anyone know if this is true? That the rocket could only be targeted with a radar outside of the Ukraine?

no it is not true - the Buk erector-launcher-and-radar (TELAR - Transporter Erector And Radar) is the middle vehicle below, and the smooth bit in front of the missiles is radar that has a short-medium range independent search/control function.



From the Russian wiki page (translated in google):


And from the FAS page on the SA-11 missile system:

Most of the photos seem to show a cloth cover over something that closely resembles that radome on the front of the TELAR
 

MikeC

Closed Account
They will have seals in place to indicate tampering. It is certainly possible to do so - but seems very unlikely that anyone would have the technical knowhow to make any meaningful changes, let alone restore the apparent integrity of the unit.

However destroying the evidence by exposure to strong electro-magnetic fields may be a possibility at any level of expertise.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
However destroying the evidence by exposure to strong electro-magnetic fields may be a possibility at any level of expertise.
The Walter White school of destroying evidence.

You would think if they were smart enough to successfully tamper with it, they would be smart enough not to have shot down the wrong plane.
 

Jason

Senior Member
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/

I think we might start to see a change in rhetoric from Russia over the course of the next few days and the recent remarks by Russian Ambassador to the UN is proof of that. Vitaly Churkin states that if the reports of the pro-Russian recorded conversations are true then it shows that it wasn't an act of terrorism because they honestly believed it was a military plane.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
The Washington Post:

Flight 17: U.S. builds case against rebels, Russia in downing of jet in Ukraine

(My bold emphasis)
 

Jason

Senior Member
It's being reported that the Pro Russian Rebels are responsibile for "sawing" the cockpit in half. It isn't yet clear why they would do such a thing.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/22/ukraine-mh17-bodies-russia/12981325/
 

Jason

Senior Member
CNN is also reporting live on the TV that the original report of 282 bodies on the "morgue" trains is an exaggerated number. By their accounts from what they are being told there were only 200 bodies on the train, which means there is still about 100 bodies missing. I hope for the sake of these families that the bodies get recovered, and sooner than later since it's summer in that region of the world. The bodies will begin to break down and decompose rather quickly in the summer heat.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Black Boxes arrived in the UK. Any idea how long the world will wait to hear whats on those recorders? Investigators said it will take several weeks to review the recorders. On another note the Safety Board said it will conduct two additional probes: "an investigation into the decision-making for flight routes and an investigation into the availability of passenger lists."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Investigators said it will take several weeks to review the recorders.
This is standard procedure. ALL such instances of FDR and CVR data review proceed in a very stringent, well-defined manner. We are a society of "HAVE IT NOW!"...but, this takes time, and protocols will be followed.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Black Boxes arrived in the UK. Any idea how long the world will wait to hear whats on those recorders? Investigators said it will take several weeks to review the recorders. On another note the Safety Board said it will conduct two additional probes: "an investigation into the decision-making for flight routes and an investigation into the availability of passenger lists."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/
An item on BBC News said they will be passing the data to the Dutch within 48 hours, although some voice recording has been passed already.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
An item on BBC News said they will be passing the data to the Dutch within 48 hours, although some voice recording has been passed already.
Yes, but I think @Jason was asking about when it would be public.

That will take some time. (Unless leaked, of course).

Although the NTSB is not 'directly' involved here, this is an example of their handbook of protocols:
https://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/manuals/FDR_Handbook.pdf

I expect that all other ICAO nations adopt a similar scheme.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Here's a photo of one of the FDR's, and I just wanted to point out something that I didn't know could happen. This FDR is missing the transponder if you look at the top right portion of the picture. Typically, there would be a white tubular thing that sits in that O'ring which sends out a radio signal so it can be discovered. Investigators said this doesn't happen very often but it's not uncommon if the FDR housing suffers damage.



In the bottom photo you can see two FDR's, one with the transponder tube, and the other without.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
This news just appeared on a few Russian language sites. Here is the English version:

REUTERS: Ukraine rebel commander acknowledges fighters had BUK missile
 

Jason

Senior Member
This news just appeared on a few Russian language sites. Here is the English version:

REUTERS: Ukraine rebel commander acknowledges fighters had BUK missile
Does this mean the Russians are getting ready to admit the rebels did this with their weapons?
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Not directly related. But there have been a couple of suspect videos that have popped up here reported to show the missile launch or strike. They might fall into this category.
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/m17-scams.shtml
 

Jason

Senior Member
The telegraph is reporting that Journalist are starting to get arrested in the area where MH 17 went down. Reporters without borders are asking the Pro Russians and Kiev government to allow journalist to report without fear of getting arrested, so I don't know if it only entails the accident site or conflict zones.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../MH17-plane-crash-July-24-as-it-happened.html
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Just in Dutch news: Research Black box confirms missile impact.

View attachment 8168
That is misreporting what happened. The investigators describe it as "consistent with missile blast". They are just repeating the CBS story here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-black-box-findings-consistent-with-blast/
Of course a missile seems like by far the most likely thing based on available information. But it has not been conclusively confirmed.
 
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