Explained: Why Biden is boarding C-32 instead of VC-25

Patrick Gonzalez

New Member
lmao getagrip.png

On February 5th, 2021, President Joe Biden made his first flight aboard Air Force One, travelling from Joint Base Andrews to New Castle Air National Guard Base for a weekend trip to his home state of Delaware, the Associated Press reported. Here is the video showing Biden boarding Air Force One from C-SPAN: https://www.c-span.org/video/?508747-101/joint-base-andrews-departure

However, some people took note of the fact that Biden was boarding an airplane that resembled the C-32, a modified Boeing 757, commonly used by the Vice President as Air Force Two, instead of the VC-25A, a modified Boeing 747. Some Trump supporters even went as far as claiming that the reason for this was because Donald Trump was still in control of the presidency so he was still in possesion of the original Air Force One, forcing Biden to use a decoy airplane. This follows a series of allegations that Biden has been using fake props and movie sets to make the impression that he is the President. See comments: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ou5ia9JBE&ab_channel=NewsNOWfromFOX



However, the reason is very simple. From the official White House government website: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/the-grounds/air-force-one/

  • Technically, “Air Force One” is used to designate any Air Force aircraft carrying the President, but it is now standard practice to use the term to refer to specific planes that are equipped to transport the Commander-in-Chief.
  • Today, this name refers to one of two highly customized Boeing 747-200B series aircraft, which carry the tail codes 28000 and 29000. The Air Force designation for the aircraft is VC-25A.

So while it is common to refer to either of the VC-25A as "Air Force One" in colloquial use, the name actually refers to a call sign and it is not the official name of any aircraft. Ok then, so why was Biden using the C-32 aircraft? Well, Biden was travelling from Maryland to Wilmington, and 90 mile trip that could be completed in about 90 minutes by car (assuming no traffic) or in about half an hour by airplane. Using a presidential motorcade would involve closing highways and other logistical shenaningans, so it is easier, and somewhat safer, to just go there on an airplane. I don't know if Biden could've used Marine One, which he used to get to Joint Base Andrews as seen in the C-SPAN video, but perhaps the helicopter did not have sufficient fuel load to complete the trip and it would take some time to fuel the helicopter.

Here is a video of Donald Trump boarding the C-32: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLWijBshhb4&ab_channel=NewsNOWfromFOX


Bonus laugh: some Trump supporter started spamming the comment section saying that the background moving is evidence of this being staged because Biden is walking in a circle. Yes, I don't know what the heck this means but apparently the concept of "camera panning" is a complete unknown concept to this guy.
 
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Hevach

Senior Member.
The current Marine One* is a VH-60 White Hawk. I can't find the range on it, but the various "Hawk" helicopters (Black Hawk, Sea Hawk, Night Nawk, Battle Hawk, etc... And because NASA has to be different, the Rascal) are related and their ranges are all more than sufficient to go from DC to anywhere in Delaware.

I don't know why Biden transferred to Air Force One, but knowing Marine One has a range probably on the order of 360-430 miles based on the other related helicopter models, I can think of many times every president in my life has used Air Force One for a trip that at Marine One probably could do, so there's probably some reason or other, possibly security. As you mention, motorcades are massively disruptive and it's really a matter of courtesy that the president generally avoids driving any significant distance.



*-just like Air Force One, Marine One is a callsign for any Marine aircraft carrying the president. There's also the less used Navy One for any Navy aircraft carrying the president, and now the purely hypothetical Space Force One if we ever let a president go into space.
 

JMartJr

Active Member
-just like Air Force One, Marine One is a callsign for any Marine aircraft carrying the president. There's also the less used Navy One for any Navy aircraft carrying the president, and now the purely hypothetical Space Force One if we ever let a president go into space.
And presumably Coast Guard One is also a possibility. Always remember the Coasties, you might need them someday!:cool:
 

Jeffrey Orling

Senior Member
It struck me as odd as well... that Biden didn't use the chopper from the WH to his destination.... except perhaps a proper heliport would be needed. Absent that the chopper probably lands in an airport and then a motorcade to his destination. So the landing location may be the same... but the chopper can go direct from the WH while the plane goes from AAFB... and needs a motorcade to get to AFT or the chopper. Something seems wasteful here.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
is the 757 smaller than the 747? considering he is pushing for climate change (and John Kerry is being bashed for using a private plane all the time) he should be using the smallest plane possible.

as far as a helicopter, i'm thinking (based on nothing really...)

we did have several inches of snow today, was there a weather event that made the helicopter dangerous?

or

maybe there were too may people. how many people does a helicopter hold? there is a "state of emergency" regarding violence in effect until like March 4th or so.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
And presumably Coast Guard One is also a possibility. Always remember the Coasties, you might need them someday!:cool:
True, also. There's never been a Coast Guard One flight, but coincidentally Biden was on the only Coast Guard Two flight to date.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Guard_One

For the sake of completion there's also Army One/Two (the assigned helicopters used to be Army rather than Marine corps) and Executive One/Two for non-military aircraft, which if I'm not mistaken was only used by Rockefeller who preferred his private Gulfstream to the assigned Air Force Two.
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
It struck me as odd as well... that Biden didn't use the chopper from the WH to his destination.... except perhaps a proper heliport would be needed. Absent that the chopper probably lands in an airport and then a motorcade to his destination. So the landing location may be the same... but the chopper can go direct from the WH while the plane goes from AAFB... and needs a motorcade to get to AFT or the chopper. Something seems wasteful here.
If the chopper was going to be used for the flight to Delaware then it would require all the decoy helos and the Marine Ospreys to be involved. The full back up team would have to be transported in helos/Ospreys. Much easier to use the Boeing C-32 (Boeing 757) on the short haul flight.

A helo flight would have looked like this with all the back up.

 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
is the 757 smaller than the 747? considering he is pushing for climate change (and John Kerry is being bashed for using a private plane all the time) he should be using the smallest plane possible.

as far as a helicopter, i'm thinking (based on nothing really...)

we did have several inches of snow today, was there a weather event that made the helicopter dangerous?

or

maybe there were too may people. how many people does a helicopter hold? there is a "state of emergency" regarding violence in effect until like March 4th or so.
Yes the 757 (C-32) is a lot smaller than the 747 (VC-25). C-32 in foreground. C-32 two engines. VC-25 four engines.

c32vc25.jpg

The next smaller on the fleet is the Boeing 737 (C-40). I wouldn't imagine that the C-40 would have been considered as the C-32 (Boeing 757) would have been the first option in lieu of the VC-25 (Boeing 747). The C-32 is routinely used by the Vice President as Air Force 2.

C-40 (Boeing 737) in the foreground with C-32 (Boeing 757).

c40c32.jpg
 

Patrick Gonzalez

New Member
I think that since Biden took office conspiracy theories are increasingly bizarre. From what I have read:
  • Biden has been using a fake Oval Office (addressed by Mick West on another thread) at Castle Rock studios.
  • Biden just bought a Boeing 757 and re-painted it.
  • The Biden we see is actually a clone or an impostor wearing a realistic mask and the real Joe Biden is actually imprisoned at GITMO along with other members of the globalist and liberal cabal.
  • Trump will return as President on March 4th and crush the globalist liberals once and for all.
I don't know if a large percentage of Trump supporters believe this, probably not, but a lot of people in the comments of pretty much every video of Biden actually do believe this. This is going to give psych and social science majors a lot of material for their studies.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
since Biden took office conspiracy theories are increasingly bizarre.
none of those are more bizarre then Pelosi peeling the face off a child and wearing it overnight like a moisturizing mask. (that doesnt even make sense.. kids faces dont fit over adult faces!)
 

JMartJr

Active Member
eve this, probably not, but a lot of people in the comments of pretty much every video of Biden actually do believe this.

Maybe. Or maybe a lot of trolls and disnfo folks are posting in comments sections these days. I'm not sure the contents of any comments section is a good indicator of what people actually think.
 

Jon Adams

Member
I think that since Biden took office conspiracy theories are increasingly bizarre. From what I have read:
  • Biden has been using a fake Oval Office (addressed by Mick West on another thread) at Castle Rock studios.
  • Biden just bought a Boeing 757 and re-painted it.
  • The Biden we see is actually a clone or an impostor wearing a realistic mask and the real Joe Biden is actually imprisoned at GITMO along with other members of the globalist and liberal cabal.
  • Trump will return as President on March 4th and crush the globalist liberals once and for all.
I don't know if a large percentage of Trump supporters believe this, probably not, but a lot of people in the comments of pretty much every video of Biden actually do believe this. This is going to give psych and social science majors a lot of material for their studies.
Is that last one because the date is 4/3/21 (except in the US, where it'd be 3/4/21)? If so, numerology...
 

Jason Bush

Member
is the 757 smaller than the 747? considering he is pushing for climate change (and John Kerry is being bashed for using a private plane all the time) he should be using the smallest plane possible.

as far as a helicopter, i'm thinking (based on nothing really...)

we did have several inches of snow today, was there a weather event that made the helicopter dangerous?

or

maybe there were too may people. how many people does a helicopter hold? there is a "state of emergency" regarding violence in effect until like March 4th or so.

This is close to the real reason the B757 is used in lieu of the B747. Yes, the B757 is smaller, but more importantly it does not require as much runway as the B747. The longest runway at ILG (New Castle, Wilmington) is 7275 feet. A B747 typically needs 7,500+ feet of runway to be safe.

Taking the B757 is safer in this case as it can land in as little as 5,000 feet.

Jason Bush
Air Traffic Controller

https://skyvector.com/airport/ILG/New-Castle-Airport

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-m...:text=A Boeing 747-8 landing,) for the 747-8i.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104518/c-32/
 

Jeffrey Orling

Senior Member
So how many travel with Biden? Could they not fit into a couple of choppers?
Where would they land in Delaware? Going from one mode of transportation to another is time consuming... time is money honey :)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
So how many travel with Biden? Could they not fit into a couple of choppers?
well they also have to return home (to DC). even if the weather was ok on friday (which it wasn't really) they wouldn't know the weather on sunday for the return flight. i dont know about maryland and dc but we got like 7 inches of snow sunday in connecticut.
 

RustamShah

New Member
Wow... is this really an issue? President boarding an Aircraft and make something out of it is an absolute waste of intellect, energies and resources on Internet
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Time is money is a private sector idea. Doesn't apply much to government in general, and absolutely not where government security concerns are involved.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Wow... is this really an issue? President boarding an Aircraft and make something out of it is an absolute waste of intellect, energies and resources on Internet
If people think it was evidence of something, then it's worth debunking/explaining.

And there are lots of aviation nerds here (me included) so it's interesting.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Taking the B757 is safer in this case as it can land in as little as 5,000 feet.
I'm sure a little safety margin for snow on the runway won't hurt, either. :)

time is money
I'm sure that every train traveler knows that time spent while moving can be productive. I expect that applies more to the comforts of a presidential jet than it does to the cramped noisy interior of a helicopter.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
The President travels with an extensive staff, military/communications support, a press gaggle to name some. A "couple of choppers" ain't going to cut it for this type of travel.
 

Jason Bush

Member
So how many travel with Biden? Could they not fit into a couple of choppers?
Where would they land in Delaware? Going from one mode of transportation to another is time consuming... time is money honey :)
Believe it or not, the B757 is cheaper per hour than just one VH-3D (Sikorsky H3). Not to mention it’s faster and holds a lot more people.

Another factor is security. Helicopters are most efficient at low altitudes(below 3,000) which makes for an easier target. The B757 can easily get to 40,000+.

$8,642 per hour for the jet
$12,684 per hour for the helo


https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/rates/fy2018/2018_b_c.pdf
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOperatingCosts/382/Boeing+757-200ER
 

RustamShah

New Member
If people think it was evidence of something, then it's worth debunking/explaining.

And there are lots of aviation nerds here (me included) so it's interesting.
Hi Mick

I was actually referring to these Conspiracy theorists who are so creative that they can find anything to make an issue out of it, like this President boarding an Aircraft. I agree Aviation industry in general an interesting topic to discuss and hopefully we'll see more posts about it.
 
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Biden shouldn't feel too bad.
According to Donald Trump, when talking about the plane he used a few years ago, which like the C-32 was also a Boeing 757-200. I quote

“It’s bigger than Air Force One, which is a step down from this in every way,”
 
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Jeffrey Orling

Senior Member
I don't know how many people travel with POTUS... and I am aware of security concerns... which I presume may be why auto routes are not usually posted. But in the past POTUS would use motorcades which involved security "sweeps".

The distance is close... less than 100 mi as the crow flies. If Biden is going to be returning to his home in Wilmington DE why not use a special train... He likes trains... Seems like it can be "secure"...????
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Trains can't be redirected and they're not easy to stop. It's quite rare for presidents to travel by trains outside of the immensely secure underground ones in DC proper (the real ones the public doesn't even get to see, the one you can see on tours is an old decommissioned system) because they're quite easy to attack (particularly indirectly by attacking infrastructure it can't reroute around) and trivial to track.

Rare of course doesn't mean unheard of. The administration does still own Georgia 300, a special executive railcar. It's been owned since the Reagan administration but has only been used a handful of times by three of the six presidents with access to it (George W Bush used a different rail car once, which now resides at his presidential library, and Reagan made some use of Georgia 300's predecessor), almost all during reelection campaigns - the car was shipped to a location while the president flew there, and then was used as a mobile oval office during a tour of whistle stop appearances before meeting back up with Air Force One).
 
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Landru

Moderator
Staff member
A train brings its own problems. It is a fixed route, all other trains on that route would have to be canceled, security would have to be placed along the way (intermediate stations, even if there is no stop), diesel engines would have to replace electric units (not susceptible to electric interruption), among others. This was an issue during the Obama pre inauguration train trip between Philadelphia and DC.
President-elect's train trip poses miles of security issues - CNN.com

https://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/0...000|MCORGID=7FF852E2556756057F000101@AdobeOrg
 
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TEEJ

Senior Member.
Another claim doing the rounds is that the aircraft Biden is flying on are not using the call-sign Air Force One. This is based on what is displayed on various flight tracking software. Flight tracking software doesn't always show the call sign as AF1, but will usually just display the call sign as the USAF serial number.

I noticed this last night when Biden was flying in a USAF Boeing 747 from Joint Base Andrews to General Mitchell International Airport, Milwaukee for the televised CNN Presidential Town Hall meeting.

Some flight tracking software sites were displaying the call sign/identity as the tail number 82-8000.

Adsbexchange flight tracking website has a side bar menu that was listing the VC-25A with the call sign being 82-8000.

General example of flight tracking software reporting the flight.

B742 = Boeing 747-200, serial 82-8000

1613589028383.png

I found a remote receiver in the US and listened to the approach frequency for General Mitchell International Airport, Milwaukee.

Of course the call sign used by USAF VC-25A (Boeing 747) USAF serial number 82-8000 was Air Force One. Displayed on the tail as 28000

Milwaukee approach frequency recording link. (Arrival)

Source: https://soundcloud.com/tomteej/president-biden-air-force-one-vc-25a-approach-to-milwaukee-16th-feb-2021


Milwaukee tower frequency recording link. (Departure)

Source: https://soundcloud.com/tomteej/af1-milwaukee-departure-16th-feb-2021


I also noted the back-up USAF Boeing C-32 (Boeing 757) serial 09-0017 flying into Milwaukee. It was using call sign Air Force 17.

This would be so easy for the die-hard conspiracy community to do so themselves, but they never appear to do so? You really can't win! I've seen claims so far that my audio recordings are faked and that they are old recordings from 2020!

So far complete silence on the VC-25A AF1 flight from the conspiracy communities go to flight tracking guy called Monkey Werx.

Link to Monkey Werx You Tube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MonkeyWerxUS/videos
 
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Patrick Gonzalez

New Member
I noticed that a lot of Trumpstills (I am calling that way the Trump supporters that still believe Trump is president) are referring to that channel. Apparently Biden's today's flight from DC to Houston on the VC-25A SAM29000 was displayed as N/A on flight tracking software but I've not found a way to verify it. I've noticed that some USAF aircraft are displayed as N/A in other flight tracking software too. Any ideas?
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
I noticed that a lot of Trumpstills (I am calling that way the Trump supporters that still believe Trump is president) are referring to that channel. Apparently Biden's today's flight from DC to Houston on the VC-25A SAM29000 was displayed as N/A on flight tracking software but I've not found a way to verify it. I've noticed that some USAF aircraft are displayed as N/A in other flight tracking software too. Any ideas?

Yes sadly Monkey Werx is still leading them astray by not listening to the ATC communications. He has comments disabled on his videos so he really has a captive audience for his subscribers. They truly believe that Trump is still in charge of the USAF Presidential/VIP fleet based on his reporting.

It is a bit puzzling as to why AF1 isn't appearing, but according to some sources this also occurred on some 2020 Trump flights. The sole Vice President Harris flight to LAX, California appeared as AF2. (Boeing C-40/Boeing 737).

Of course the reality is that the ATC feeds are using call sign Air Force One. President Biden flew on Boeing VC-25A, serial 82-8000 to Texas on the 26th February.

Air Force One - Houston approach before landing at Ellington Field Joint Reserve Base.

Source: https://soundcloud.com/tomteej/biden-air-force-one-usaf-vc-25a-boeing-747-houston-approach-26th-feb-2021


Air Force One - Ronald Reagan Washington approach before landing at Joint Base Andrews.

Source: https://soundcloud.com/tomteej/biden-air-force-one-vc-25a-boeing-747-approach-joint-base-andrews-26th-feb-2021
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
It is a bit puzzling as to why AF1 isn't appearing, but according to some sources this also occurred on some 2020 Trump flights.
I have two guesses.

The first is that it's a software problem with the flight tracking website.
Article:
The ADS-B message emitted by the aircraft only includes the call sign for the flight, not route or commercial flight number. We acquire flight schedules data from third-party schedule providers and then match call signs to flight numbers using proprietary databases and machine learning. When call signs change during the seasonal schedule updates (or sometimes on a daily basis for some airlines), depending on the airline and geographical area, it may take 1 or 2 flights to rematch the call signs to flight numbers.

The guess is that the software is trying to find a flight number for the AF1 call sign and can't because it doesn't have one for that call sign and route; so the flight number is "unavailable".
OR the software has another aircraft still tagged as AF1 someplace (presumably on the ground) and tries to avoid duplications.

The other guess is operational security. Broadcasting the call sign via ADS-B alerts everyone in the vicinity as to where the president is. If there's danger of an attack, it's safer to not set the "proper" call sign in the ADS-B. If that happened, the evidence for that is in the raw data.
Even private pilots can do that:
Article:
Filing with a call sign is an easy way to add a layer of privacy that would not be possible when filing with your tail number. Using a call sign prevents others from seeing your aircraft’s actual registration as part of your ADS-B Out transmission, and also prevents anyone from easily finding your aircraft using flight tracking services like FlightAware. And if you have blocked your aircraft's tail number at the FAA level, a call sign allows you to still track your flights using those services, while making them difficult to track for others.
 
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