jarlrmai
Senior Member.
This will be spun as a "see, when they are actual drones they can do things, so therefore these drones must be NHI"
Drones over New Jersey?
- Thread starter Jack Mallory
- Start date
Mendel
Senior Member.
They charged him with "violation of national defense airspace", which is more severe than simply breaking one of the New Jersey FAA TFRs (which I don't recommend, either).External Quote:
As an aside, Metabunk's posting guidelines (linked from the nav bar) ask us to quote content verbatim before paraphrasing it. But they also permit posting links if accompanied by a description.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Well, that was an Air Force base with drone detection systems (radar, presumably), and they were able to track the drone close to its operator.
Often, that's not possible.
TEEJ
Senior Member.
Um...
Secondhand and thirdhand accounts with zero evidence incoming!
Listen. Carefully. To every word. Is there a "there" there?
Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1866601285522428423
For reference:
Island State Park, New Jersey
View attachment 74330
If you run back the likes of flight tracker ADSBExchange for the 8th December you will see that it is a very busy area for aircraft. You can imagine this police officer simply logging every light in the sky that he believes is a drone. A quick sample of the activty shows aircraft crossing the coast at around 4,000 feet. Also lots of aircraft flying just off the coast. A very busy area for air traffic.
https://www.adsbexchange.com/
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
This article is actually pretty amusing, and sums up so much of the hyperbolic reactions being thrown about.
How quickly it all deescalates (while adding in vague and unanswered tangents).
I also have to wonder how many readers pick up on the cheeky use of quotation marks in the headline. True believers will simply ignore the implications and leap to validation.
We go from a headline such as this:
N.J. military base had 11 'confirmed' mystery drone sightings, Army says
To a second paragraph of this:
Mendel
Senior Member.
I interpreted this to mean civilian police or army security, but now I'm not so sure.
The base might have civilian contract security.
John J.
Senior Member.
I expect they'll call it the 2024 New Jersey Invasion, like they do the Washington Invasion.
I'll just be grateful if some of the people of New Jersey survive to warn future generations...
Because if they were the military's own drones, they would know that there were drones there!
The military, despite days or weeks of investigation, have yet to find any of these supposed drones.
And the reason, to me at least, seems very simple: because they're looking in the wrong place!
If a witness thinks there is a small drone a couple of hundred feet in the air, but it's actually a large plane a few thousand feet in the air, and possibly several miles away horizontally, then the military are not going to find it! And as we know from countless UFO cases, police and military personnel are by no means immune from being mistaken when it comes to identifying lights in the sky.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
Excerpt from transcript: Source: https://youtu.be/SlD2xagGrJUExternal Quote:
analiennamed
Member
Army confirms drone sightings over NJ mil base:
https://www.nj.com/morris/2024/12/n...firmed-mystery-drone-sightings-army-says.html
Aren't we jumping the shark by continuing to call this only misidentification at this point?
https://www.nj.com/morris/2024/12/n...firmed-mystery-drone-sightings-army-says.html
Aren't we jumping the shark by continuing to call this only misidentification at this point?
RTM
Senior Member.
Or how long it takes to link it to The Jersey Devil.
I don't know if I'm late to the party with this one but I located the Diane Atkins videos to an address in Brooklyn. I won't post the street address here.
These are the distinctive roofs of the buildings opposite the apartment block they were filmed from:
Further confirmation, from 3D view in Google Maps - this taller block across the street with the Verrazano–Narrows bridge behind.
I don't think skeptics here are saying there are zero drones being flown in the skies of New Jersey at night. I think what's lacking is evidence of a new, widespread, and continuing presence of drones of unusual size.
Those Picatinny Arsenal sitings sound real-ish -- as noted above in the thread, we don't know what precisely was seen and misidentifications of aircraft are common -- but the frequency of those reports seemed to decrease over time.
Popping those into Google Earth from the vantage point I identified, and looking towards the bridge:
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JMartJr
Senior Member.
See: #147 in this thread, the military and certainly military personnel in the middle of a drone flap seem capable of initially (and for a long time thereafter misidentifying what is and isn't a drone!
So far the only evidence that we have shows things that are not mysterious drones the size of cars, and only a very tiny bit of the evidence shows consumer drones... almost all of it shows planes, or is too poor quality to tell WHAT it shows. (A small remainder seems to show Venus, Jupiter and the like.) There is still ZERO evidence of the giant mystery drones everybody was shouting about.
At this point, there surely are a lot of normal drones being flown about, as pranksters get in on the fun and others, including law enforcement agencies, are launching drones to look for drones. So it is not going to be shocking of military personnel see some drones -- there are drones in the air. But "they say they saw drones" is not good evidence.
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TEEJ
Senior Member.
Nice work. Yes, she is filming aircraft on approach to La Guardia. Just another example of a person filming without knowledge of the aviation patterns in her area. La Guardia is a busy airport and nothing unusual about that number of aircraft landing within a 15 minute period. When that runway is in use at La Guardia she will be seeing those "drones" as long as she lives at that location.
She appears in the following video at the beginning.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN4cGNoarnU
I posted the ADSBExchange playback link in following link. I also had a listen into the La Guardia ATC archive on Live ATC and of course no reports of drones or any other reports of aerial hazards to flight safety.
From approx 5 minutes onwards is one of the aircraft N465FX that would have filmed.
Live ATC link.
https://archive.liveatc.net/klga/KLGA-Twr-Dec-10-2024-0400Z.mp3
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/drones-over-new-jersey.13770/page-6#post-329830
If these lights were being recorded from two cameras, how far apart would the cameras have to be in order to use some kind of parallax calculation to determine if something is a few hundred feet away vs thousands feet / miles away?
John J.
Senior Member.
Several posters have said they think it likely that some of the NJ sightings are drones. I don't think anyone's said all sightings of drones in NJ must be misidentifications; we know people fly drones in New Jersey!
We also know some drone operators fly their craft where they shouldn't, because of error, ignorance or mischief. I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out some more serious actors have taken advantage of this "noise" to do the odd bit of recce; it's very cheap and has plausible deniability.
(You don't send the Military Attaché in a Volga with a big aerial sticking out, you join an internet forum for a while and then send a PM saying "Hey! Really like your posts. I hope you've read some of mine. Truth is, I was a contractor for ACME Aerospace working at Fort Backwater in the 2010's. Can't tell you everything, but an old colleague said that all it would take would be a couple of drone flights, and we'd have evidence of what was really going on there. Got me thinking; me and my buddies think this should be shared with the public, but we're on the radar of those who don't want disclosure... ...This is important to us, and we've got backing from those who seek the truth... ...Have you got a crypto account?" etc.)
The question is, is anything unusual happening in New Jersey? So far, those who say "Yes" seem to be people whose evidence is mainly pictures of airliners and a power-line marker, but not of anything unusual, and people who accept their accounts, and other anecdotes without evidence, as evidence.
Sure, there are drones flown at night in New Jersey, and every other state. It's likely the number of drones will increase over time. Some drones go where they shouldn't.
But is there any evidence (not anecdotes, photos/ vids of planes etc.) of unusual drones over NJ?
Some are claimed to have lights and are the size of cars, and sometimes hover for a while. New Jersey is densely populated, most of the adult population probably carry smartphones. Many cars will have dashcams, and I'd guess there are a few amateur astronomers with telescope cameras despite the light pollution. TV news outlets with professional camera crews are aware.
IR and low-light cameras are cheaper than they used to be, and are widely used by Fire and Rescue/ Police services.
There should be loads of photographs/ footage of the mystery drones by now.
John J.
Senior Member.
Quoting Diane Atkins in the NewsNation video posted by @TEEJ, any errors in transcript are mine,
External Quote:
Er, exactly like a plane. (In fairness, this is assuming she means red and green blinking lights, not literally reddish-green. It's hard to imagine a bronze green or brown light).
Diane Atkins is no doubt a well-meaning and bright lady, but she might not be an experienced aircraft spotter.
NewsNation's investigative journalism credibility must be questionable, but I guess they're getting views, which is what they want.
Mendel
Senior Member.
That depends on the angles and on how accurately you can sync them up.
If you can mount two 4k cameras with an optical FOV of 40⁰ (which makes ~0.01⁰ per pixel) on a 4ft wide frame so that they do not move with respect to each other, and you sync them up peroidically (a hand clap will do, or use a clapper like a movie crew), and you calibrate them on a target a known distance away (e.g. 100 feet), then if an object near the center of the image is 1 pixel further away on both images than the calibration, it's 1 foot more distant than the calibration target (or closer).You could also calibrate on an astronomical object. When you do that, the farthest distance that's different from infinity would by ~4 miles, then 2 miles, 1 mile, ½ mile, etc. If you place them 40 feet apart, you get 10 times the resolution.
If you have 2 cameras on very different roofs with a compass direction of sight (and the assurance you're looking at the same object), it depends on the angle of the sight lines—the closer to 90⁰, the better. I'd sync these by recording the same analog (AM/FM) radio station.
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Ann K
Senior Member.
Red and green PIGMENTS make a brownish color. Red and green LIGHTS make a yellow light. Due to refraction in air, distant lights may show all sorts of colors, and the red and green lights of a plane may not show clearly until the object is closer.
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
OMFG!!! WTF is happening?!?!
12.11.24 | Rep. Van Drew: 'NJ Drones May Be Linked to Iran'
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0ooXrOww8
MAKE IT STOP!
Did Steven Greer write this?
12.11.24 | Rep. Van Drew: 'NJ Drones May Be Linked to Iran'
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0ooXrOww8
MAKE IT STOP!
Did Steven Greer write this?I'm going to parse this line by line, idiotic claim by idiotic claim, but only after I take a long breather. LOL
Kyle Ferriter
Senior Member.
This is escalating in a very fast and concerning way. Representative Van Drew from New Jersey just went on Fox News said he has secret, high-level sources that say there is an Iranian mothership launching drones into the US off the coast of NJ and that we need to shoot them down. To me this comes off a entirely baseless and fueled by misinformation and a war-hawk mentality that these conservative politicians want any excuse to escalate hostilities with Iran and perhaps greenlight actual missile strikes against Iran.
It is also worrying to think that we may see people start shooting at planes at any moment. Fox News is pretty widely viewed, more viewers than the CSPAN audience for that congressional hearing, and some in that audience might feel inclined to take matters into their own hands.
Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1866912390501052418
The White House in an currently ongoing press conference says there is no evidence that there are any drones coming from a foreign adversary or that there is any Iranian ship off the coast of the US. The Press Secretary flat out says "there is no truth to that" in response to Van Drew's statements. ~14:13 timestamp:
https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1djGXrRQVYoxZ
It is also worrying to think that we may see people start shooting at planes at any moment. Fox News is pretty widely viewed, more viewers than the CSPAN audience for that congressional hearing, and some in that audience might feel inclined to take matters into their own hands.
Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1866912390501052418
The White House in an currently ongoing press conference says there is no evidence that there are any drones coming from a foreign adversary or that there is any Iranian ship off the coast of the US. The Press Secretary flat out says "there is no truth to that" in response to Van Drew's statements. ~14:13 timestamp:
https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1djGXrRQVYoxZ
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AllTheQuestionsToday
Active Member
There is a huge update from the New Jersey state police reported here on the drones.
The New Jersey State Police do seem to be considering this as actual drones of unusual size based on this?
Source: https://x.com/DawnFantasia_NJ/status/1866896860578717994
The New Jersey State Police do seem to be considering this as actual drones of unusual size based on this?
Source: https://x.com/DawnFantasia_NJ/status/1866896860578717994
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
You literally can't pay for entertainment this good. Things are moving fast. Strap in. 
Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1866928516895535481
Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1866928516895535481
RTM
Senior Member.
It's one thing when randomers on twitter talk about shooting at the "drones", but an elected representative saying it is a bit worrying.
Anyone else getting Orson Welles War of the Worlds vibe of this?
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
So...still not even a shred of credible evidence to verify any of these claims?
For those who don't Twitter:
Dawn Fantasia
@DawnFantasia_N
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
1) New rule: If you got the moniker of "Mr." in front of your name, you're no longer allowed to use phrases better suited to pre-teens such as, "I've learned, for real..."
2) "[these claims] from high, good sources—individuals who are reputable, individuals who speak with authority."
LOL WTF does that even mean? Every joker on social media "speaks with authority." As do Elizondo, Greer, Sheehan, Coulthart, etc, etc, etc. It literally means nothing.
3) "Unfortunately [they] are concerned with identifying who they are at this point, who are saying this, but this is true."
Bruh, you're a friggin' U.S. Congressman. This isn't the GAIA network or a Disclosure podcast. Claiming "this is true" with literally nothing, whatsoever, to back that up just doesn't cut it. And certainly not in 2024. This is so comically stupid that I just can't stand it. Not one absurd claim of his will ever be proven to be true. Not one. Clown World just continues to outdo itself on a weekly basis.
AllTheQuestionsToday
Active Member
Updates come fast and wild today! The Pentagon (and thus White House) are adamant they are
1. Real/drones
2. Not USA controlled
3. Not foreign/state actor controlled
What does that leave as plausible options?
I hate to ask, but you guys are going to say, even toward the Pentagon: where's the proof?
Why it is controversial amongst skeptics that these are drones and not some form of mass hysteria, given the military and basically all-of-government now considers this a real evolving crisis?
Source: https://x.com/rosscoulthart/status/1866932603645030776
1. Real/drones
2. Not USA controlled
3. Not foreign/state actor controlled
What does that leave as plausible options?
I hate to ask, but you guys are going to say, even toward the Pentagon: where's the proof?
Why it is controversial amongst skeptics that these are drones and not some form of mass hysteria, given the military and basically all-of-government now considers this a real evolving crisis?
Source: https://x.com/rosscoulthart/status/1866932603645030776
JMartJr
Senior Member.
Snipped from Jack Mallory's post #268 above.External Quote:
First sentence, "We know nothing."
Second sentence says how misleading it is to say that we don't know anything.
One would hope that when she informed all officials of this sentiment, they laughed. But I doubt it.
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JMartJr
Senior Member.
That is not what she says. She says they are aware of drone reports, that they are not coming from a foreign entity, and that they are not US military drones. And that the Iranian "mother ship" stuff is nonsense. At least in the clip you link to, at no point does she say that they are known to be drones.
So how do they know these details if they have no lights, and can't be detected?
Also most importantly:
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
Respectfully, you keep doing this. You're putting words (and thoughts) into their mouths.
Where did the Pentagon spokesperson ever say that these are "real drones"? She spent a lot of time saying what they weren't, but never addressed what they were, or even might be.
She only referred to "drone sightings that have been reported." Again, that's just more hearsay as part of this endless game of telephone.
Edit: Sorry, things are moving super fast, and we all keeping posting over each and repeating some of the same points. I'm guilty too.
Mendel
Senior Member.
I expect that's the context.External Quote:
BlackHoleNFO
Member
i need to hold back myself do not going too sarcastic...
Did he say "we are number one...but now we not" lol*
Mendel
Senior Member.
Bad paraphrases all around. From the provided video clip:
was not stated at all
not US military drones, could well be PD/FD/civilian drones (or misidentified aircraft)
said "no evidence", was not "adamant"
RTM
Senior Member.
I wonder if there is any evidence that authorities are seeing that is not in the public eye. We had an elected official talk about a coast guard ship being followed. You'd like to think this is based on solid evidence, but as we've seen in recent years outlandish stories can be accepted very easily.
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