TEEJ
Senior Member.
Has Mayor Sam Morris posted his footage? He claims that he filmed a number of drones. Link to Sam Morris interview.
Source: https://youtu.be/OT9rrkYGAUU?t=114
Drones over New Jersey?
- Thread starter Jack Mallory
- Start date
Has Mayor Sam Morris posted his footage? He claims that he filmed a number of drones. Link to Sam Morris interview.
Source: https://youtu.be/OT9rrkYGAUU?t=114
roger1440
Member
Congressman Chris Smith suggests the U.S. military shoot the drones out of the sky. The congressman is a fool. I see aircraft in the sky all day and night seven days a week. Teterboro Airport is about a mile from my home. I see aircraft coming and going from Teterboro, Newark, Kennedy and LaGuardia. Airplane traffic above my head is one of the busiest on the planet. I do not want an airliner shot out of the sky above my home. It would spoil my day if an airliner landed on top of me. I'm in Bergen County, NJ. The Empire State Building is about 9.5 miles east of me. What are these things in the sky? I don't know what all of them are. What I do know is that some of them are planes. Panic is coming from the fear of the unknown. Fear does not justify shooting airliners out of the sky.
DavidB66
Senior Member.
oh come on, that can't be a real name...can it?
Mendel
Senior Member.
These New Jersey drones are passed off as threats by some. The question what it would take for a drone to be considered a legitimate threat is on-topic. I'm always interested in sources.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Surely you can cite precedent that shows this assumption is faulty. It was correct in the case of the Chinese spy balloon, which was very similar (except that it actually existed and originated from a foreign country).
We can go by past experience.
I submit that it's dangerous and irresponsible to fire weapons based on public opinion and not evidence, so if they have evidence that we don't, what we say doesn't matter anyway.
But it's dangerous and irresponsible to talk about a threat you have no evidence exists. It's fear-mongering, and it may lead to the public shooting at aircraft, or pointing lasers at them, which is very dangerous and irresponsible. And there is plenty of evidence that the public misidentifies aircraft as drones!
Supporting mass hysteria is dangerous and irresponsible.
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I have messaged every "reporter" who I have found breathlessly asking if they can use footage from social media, linking to the IDs of obvious flight paths. So far, no response. Clearly the media don't want answers, they want a mystery that gets eyeballs.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Argument from credulity? "I can believe it, therefore it's true"?
The points are
• counterintelligence claim no evidence of this
• "flying surveillance" over New Jersey is both legal and pointless
• we have no evidence this drone surveillance is happening
• the people who might have access to better evidence don't claim it either
There's a lot of speculation.
Don't go with the speculation, go with the evidence.
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Someone fired into the sky last night in Long Branch, which is on the Jersey coast, right in the drone hysteria zone. Connect the dots...
BTW, has anyone answered the obvious question of why, if someone is trying to fly drones across America in secret, they equip them with bright flashing lights so everyone can see them? Why wouldn't they send in the drones dark? It makes no sense.
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
To blend in with the normal air traffic everyone is aware of and recognises.. oh wait..
The nearest squawking traffic at that time was an A320 10 miles ways.
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
Dawn Fantasia's summary of NJ briefing suggests...
In the land of make believe they can do anything you need them to. You know, all those reports of drones people can't see.
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy is also quoted as saying "the minute you get your eyes on them, they go dark."
He believes they are sophisticated. Obviously. Must be if they can be watching where every single person might be watching, ready to go dark.
Not too sure why they aren't sophisticated enough just to work without lights all the time. But hey ho.
He believes they are sophisticated. Obviously. Must be if they can be watching where every single person might be watching, ready to go dark.
Not too sure why they aren't sophisticated enough just to work without lights all the time. But hey ho.
Mendel
Senior Member.
It's called Land of Dreams.
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
I think it could actually be the Land of Who The Hell Cares Where Funding Comes From.It's called Land of Dreams.
FatPhil
Senior Member.
This is getting embarassing (for them). Newark was #12, La Guardia is:
19 LaGuardia Airport LGA New York City New York Metro NY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
It's probably starlink
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wh...mostly-reported-from-planes.12720/post-329850
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
You might want to discuss that in the appropriate thread.
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
I feel like a lot hangs on whether the sightings continue and there's someone of authority to determine that they aren't seeing actual drones but misidentifying lights in the sky, or whether the sightings just dry up.
If they just dry up then we are left in a situation where all physical evidence available suggests a flap, or you can cling to witness testimony and claim that something definitely did happen but it stopped for whatever reason (such as cos people started looking so they had to stop).
People will be free to choose which side of the fence they sit on.
Of course that people might now be using their drones to look for "drones" and people start seeing those drones could really muddy the waters.
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Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
There's a process that's amplifying misperception.
Only misperceptions are reported. No one reports seeing ordinary air traffic. Therefore only the most unreliable witnesses are selected.
Superspreaders are the most unreliable witnesses. Yet they account for the majority of the eyewitness accounts. Thus this delusion is being created by a small fraction of the population.
That's not quite right, as deliberate hoaxes are also being generated.
The media is amplifying this because they know a good story. That's capitalism. Stories are accepted at face value.
Lack of knowledge plays its part. No one seems to understand visual perception. No one seems to understand that in 2-D photos, there's no information as to size and distance. When presented with these videos, people are primed by the eyewitness testimony to "see" car sized drones at hundreds of feet rather than normal sized airliners at miles.
In a photo, the Sun - at 93,000,000 miles - can be the same size as a pingpong ball at a few feet.
Please see :"Forced Perspective Photography"
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...ured-by-photographer.13182/page-3#post-302869
The second wave of amplification comes from the small percentage of the population who are eagerly consuming the stories. They all have their own paranoid/outlandish theories. Which they frame as wise and realistic evaluations.
Lastly, in my opinion: Many people are highly skeptical of the mass delusion explanation. It makes no sense to them. They would rather believe in the most outlandish stories than in the fallibility of the human race.
The mass delusion explanation is framed as outlandish nonsense, while an Iranian mothership is framed as a wise but uncomfortable truth about the International Situation and the Dangerous Times in which we live.
People are reluctant to face uncomfortable truths. So they come up with a lullaby argument - the mass delusion explanation.
Mass delusion would be an outlandish explanation if it were argued that 100% or even 50% of the general population was seeing mystery drones that aren't there. But that's not the argument. This mass delusion involves only a small fraction of the population. And the awful and irresponsible way the media is reporting this story.
Only misperceptions are reported. No one reports seeing ordinary air traffic. Therefore only the most unreliable witnesses are selected.
Superspreaders are the most unreliable witnesses. Yet they account for the majority of the eyewitness accounts. Thus this delusion is being created by a small fraction of the population.
That's not quite right, as deliberate hoaxes are also being generated.
The media is amplifying this because they know a good story. That's capitalism. Stories are accepted at face value.
Lack of knowledge plays its part. No one seems to understand visual perception. No one seems to understand that in 2-D photos, there's no information as to size and distance. When presented with these videos, people are primed by the eyewitness testimony to "see" car sized drones at hundreds of feet rather than normal sized airliners at miles.
In a photo, the Sun - at 93,000,000 miles - can be the same size as a pingpong ball at a few feet.
Please see :"Forced Perspective Photography"
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...ured-by-photographer.13182/page-3#post-302869
The second wave of amplification comes from the small percentage of the population who are eagerly consuming the stories. They all have their own paranoid/outlandish theories. Which they frame as wise and realistic evaluations.
Lastly, in my opinion: Many people are highly skeptical of the mass delusion explanation. It makes no sense to them. They would rather believe in the most outlandish stories than in the fallibility of the human race.
The mass delusion explanation is framed as outlandish nonsense, while an Iranian mothership is framed as a wise but uncomfortable truth about the International Situation and the Dangerous Times in which we live.
People are reluctant to face uncomfortable truths. So they come up with a lullaby argument - the mass delusion explanation.
Mass delusion would be an outlandish explanation if it were argued that 100% or even 50% of the general population was seeing mystery drones that aren't there. But that's not the argument. This mass delusion involves only a small fraction of the population. And the awful and irresponsible way the media is reporting this story.
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@Z.W. Wolf - well put. I'd add to that - the role that the Authorities have in amplifying the story. If enough deluded people report something unusual then the Police/FAA/FBI/DOD/MiB will start to investigate becasue they dont want to miss a genuine threat , at which point the masses will say "see! the authorities are taking this seriously!" and their delusions are validated thus increasing the profile of the story.
The 'authorities' are stuck between a rock and a hard place with their investigation, becasue they cant find any good evidence to show that there are any drones, nor can they prove there are no drones. They are unwilling to contradict the hundreds of eye witnesses, and therefore all they will say is "we havent found any evidence of drones yet, but we are keeping an open mind" - which then in turn get the response from the masses "The authorites are really bad at their job" or "The authorites are all part of the cover up" or even worse 'If the authorites can't stop these drones then we'll have to take things into our own hands and shoot one down!".
The 'authorities' are stuck between a rock and a hard place with their investigation, becasue they cant find any good evidence to show that there are any drones, nor can they prove there are no drones. They are unwilling to contradict the hundreds of eye witnesses, and therefore all they will say is "we havent found any evidence of drones yet, but we are keeping an open mind" - which then in turn get the response from the masses "The authorites are really bad at their job" or "The authorites are all part of the cover up" or even worse 'If the authorites can't stop these drones then we'll have to take things into our own hands and shoot one down!".
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Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
The government officials are relying on info they have.
There's no one doing investigations. There's no Project Blue Book team using proper techniques.
My feeling is that people in officialdom are just putting their heads down and waiting for it to go away.
There's no one doing investigations. There's no Project Blue Book team using proper techniques.
My feeling is that people in officialdom are just putting their heads down and waiting for it to go away.
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Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
The "All of them can't be wrong" fallacy...
Yes they can, because we're only hearing from the ones who got it wrong.
Scenario: You give a hundred thousand people a driving test. Ten thousand of them get question 10 wrong. That means ten thousand people were wrong. All of them, without exception.
"Wait, a minute. Are you telling me ten thousand people could all be wrong?"
Yeah, they could. By definition. But are you counting the people who got the question right? On a test... yes you do.
But the right people aren't counted during a UFO Flap.
A million people look at Venus. Nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred of them see Venus... or at least something they take to be a star or something unremarkable.
A hundred people see a flying saucer.
"Well all of the couldn't be wrong."
Yeah, they could. Because only the people who made a mistake were selected out. They're the ones who got the question wrong.
But what about all the people who got the question right? They're the so called "missing people" who weren't wrong. But when it comes to UFOs, they're invisible.
The misperceptions are amplified to the point that they seem super important.
Yes they can, because we're only hearing from the ones who got it wrong.
Scenario: You give a hundred thousand people a driving test. Ten thousand of them get question 10 wrong. That means ten thousand people were wrong. All of them, without exception.
"Wait, a minute. Are you telling me ten thousand people could all be wrong?"
Yeah, they could. By definition. But are you counting the people who got the question right? On a test... yes you do.
But the right people aren't counted during a UFO Flap.
A million people look at Venus. Nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred of them see Venus... or at least something they take to be a star or something unremarkable.
A hundred people see a flying saucer.
"Well all of the couldn't be wrong."
Yeah, they could. Because only the people who made a mistake were selected out. They're the ones who got the question wrong.
But what about all the people who got the question right? They're the so called "missing people" who weren't wrong. But when it comes to UFOs, they're invisible.
The misperceptions are amplified to the point that they seem super important.
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Gaspa
Senior Member.
I didn't pay much attention to this thread before, because I didn't foresee how big this story would get, so forgive me for not going through the nine pages of comments (I did go through the first few). So if this has been posted before, let me know and I'll delete this, or someone else can just delete it.
There is now a Wikipedia article for it, and it's bad. I'm not EXing the whole thing here, but it basically repeats some of the credulous claims.
2024 New Jersey drone sightings - Wikipedia
https://apnews.com/article/fbi-drones-sightings-central-new-jersey-cd8866c9c2568216759007716990decf
There is now a Wikipedia article for it, and it's bad. I'm not EXing the whole thing here, but it basically repeats some of the credulous claims.
2024 New Jersey drone sightings - Wikipedia
And AP has covered it last wednesday. Poorly. I mean, it has videos of obvious airplanes, and not a mention of what they are.External Quote:
https://apnews.com/article/fbi-drones-sightings-central-new-jersey-cd8866c9c2568216759007716990decf
External Quote:
JWrightBrain
Active Member
I hearby dub them D.O.U.S.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
I communicated with CNN yesterday in the wake of one of their stories, pointing them to this thread, explaining my (to at least some extent, our) interpretation of the evidence that is available, and suggesting that if they are looking for an engaging and knowledgeably person for an interview, who is able to explain complex ideas entertainingly and clearly, they might reach out to Mr. West*. Will they pay any attention? I doubt it -- but they might. They might be more likely to if they heard from more than just me... just a thought!
Still worth doing. Also, I have reached out to some of the law enforcement agencies locally who seem to be spreading rumor rather than trying to calm things down. Remember the Emperor's New Clothes? If one or two of them will understand what is actually happening, and stand up and say so, it could calm things considerably.
* @Mick West , if you would prefer I leave you out of it, please let me know. But you're good at it, have had some experience, so you seem the logical one to point them towards.
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
CBS Morning news just ran the same story as NBC evening news ran last night, with virtually the same footage of commercial airliners going overhead. At this point, they're not even trying. Not even a little. Zero effort is being put into applying even the most basic of rational assessments. Career "journalists" at major TV networks are not voicing any skepticism whatsoever. Clearly the string-pullers at the top of the media food chain have handed down the decree: Run with the story. Just put it out there. Pull up the same garbage source videos that everyone else is using. There's a buzz about this. We don't want to miss out. Not that the decline of journalistic standards is anything new or recent, but this is really becoming quite pathetic and embarrassing. For them.
Gaspa
Senior Member.
Five out of ten pictures in this piece are of a helicopter, pics 1, 3, 4, 5, and 8, pasted below. In some you can clearly see the craft, in the remaining cases, it can be identified by the color and position of the lights.
https://www.app.com/story/news/loca...greg-myhre-frustrated-with-state/76921367007/
External Quote:
https://www.app.com/story/news/loca...greg-myhre-frustrated-with-state/76921367007/
So.... Lawmakers don't know what they're talking about. What's new?External Quote:
John J.
Senior Member.
Re. people in authority repeating the NJ claims without firm evidence, and some posters here and elsewhere feeling that the military/ security services know more, or should know more, than they are saying, there might be a precedent- and possibly lessons to be learnt from those who investigated it.
Multiple claims of unexplained aerial phenomena are made in a built-up East Coast area, some from service personnel and from civil aviation staff. A panel of civilian scientists commissioned by the CIA, and led by the physicist H.P. Robertson reports back:
-But this was in January 1953 in response to the 1952 "Washington Invasion" (found it while reading up on the topic after @Duke alluded to it in post #247): Washington Citypaper, "Saucers Full of Secrets", Dan Gilgoff, December 14 2021
https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/260860/saucers-full-of-secrets/.
People apparently encouraging the use of firearms/ lasers against "drones"- when it is very clear that some of the imagery given as evidence of unusual drone activity over New Jersey is of commercial airliners- and a power-line marker- might be seen as evidence of the type of behaviour that the Robertson Panel feared 71 years ago.
The Robertson Panel's secretary, former USN test pilot Fred Durant who was working in the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence, recalled the reaction of the group's electronics and radar expert, Luis Alvarez:
-Interestingly, not the view of the CIA;
Edited: East coast, not West!
Multiple claims of unexplained aerial phenomena are made in a built-up East Coast area, some from service personnel and from civil aviation staff. A panel of civilian scientists commissioned by the CIA, and led by the physicist H.P. Robertson reports back:
(My emphasis).External Quote:
-But this was in January 1953 in response to the 1952 "Washington Invasion" (found it while reading up on the topic after @Duke alluded to it in post #247): Washington Citypaper, "Saucers Full of Secrets", Dan Gilgoff, December 14 2021
https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/260860/saucers-full-of-secrets/.
People apparently encouraging the use of firearms/ lasers against "drones"- when it is very clear that some of the imagery given as evidence of unusual drone activity over New Jersey is of commercial airliners- and a power-line marker- might be seen as evidence of the type of behaviour that the Robertson Panel feared 71 years ago.
The Robertson Panel's secretary, former USN test pilot Fred Durant who was working in the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence, recalled the reaction of the group's electronics and radar expert, Luis Alvarez:
External Quote:
-Interestingly, not the view of the CIA;
Washington Citypaper, ibid., quoting a CIA briefing recounted in Watch the Skies, 1994, Curtis Peebles.External Quote:
Edited: East coast, not West!
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JMartJr
Senior Member.
That seems to be the same Luis Alvarez who, with his son, proposed the impact hypothesis for the extinction of the dinosaurs, worked in the Manhattan Project, did early work on aircraft transponders, was an observer in a support B-29 during the bombing of Hiroshima, won a Nobel in 1968 and was involved in efforts to x-ray the pyramids at Giza. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Walter_Alvarez) Fellow seems to have led an interesting life...
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
Pretty sure that none of this bodes well for potential future drone delivery services.
Duke
Senior Member.
A couple of those clearly show a helicopter, but remember there are some (relatively) large, radio controlled helicopters flown by hobbiests. I've personally seen a radio controlled, scaled model of a UH-1 that was at least 5-6 feet long flown at an RC show, although admittedly not at night. This RC helicopter is an 18 ft long replica of a French SA 315.
Source: https://youtu.be/E1uVIDL8j8Q?si=Q3gjne_rVN3qbpdq
Not saying these photos or any of the claimed sighting are necessarily RC helos, but there are remotely piloted "drone" helicopters. Some of them are fairly large. Are there RC helicopter hobbiests flying their models at night to get in on the act? Possibly, just like I think I there are probably other drones hobbiest pranksters doing the same in NJ.
I can't see a helicopter in that area at the time in question (0133-0149 UTC on Dec 9) but exactly one hour earlier this helicopter flew left to right past Tom's River. Bay Shore is the area just east of Gilford Park, right by the end of the road bridge.
Camera still set to Daylight Saving Time?
Helicopter looks like a match with the distinctive enclosed fenestron tail rotor.
Mendel
Senior Member.
that just means, if you're flying a spy drone, put the Amazon logo on it
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
Jack Mallory
Senior Member.
With all the clamoring for "Disclosure" that we've had to endure in recent years, and the never-ending debate about how the general public might react to true, verifiable, incontrovertible proof of alien visitation to this planet of ours, it would seem that the media are showing themselves to be the true obstacle to such a revelation. If they can't even handle or responsibly process the current "drones over New Jersey" flap (sounds like an IHOP menu item), how in the heck could they ever deal with a legitimate unveiling of an other-worldly craft, or non-human bodies? This is why we can't have nice things (or even nice E.T.s). The immaturity and stupidity currently on display, across the mainstream media, makes them wholly unfit to even address the topic of UAP/NHI at all.
JFDee
Senior Member.
One slightly overlooked point that contradicts the 'car-sized drones' narrative is that air traffic in New Jersey doesn't seem to be impeded in the least, despite the number of 'drone' reports.
If there were actual large drones around, they would show up on ATC radar and cause significant safety measures, like redirections or even airport closures.
If there were actual large drones around, they would show up on ATC radar and cause significant safety measures, like redirections or even airport closures.
Dan Burt
Member
https://www.jobyaviation.com/
https://justhelicopters.com/Article...ver-electric-air-taxi-flight-in-New-York-City
This company flew an electric air taxi to New York City in November of this year. Is it possible people have seen one of these in test flights?
https://www.jobyaviation.com/news/j...ectric-air-taxi-charger-new-york-city-region/
The above article talks about their plan to install the first charging station in Kearney, New Jersey.
https://justhelicopters.com/Article...ver-electric-air-taxi-flight-in-New-York-City
This company flew an electric air taxi to New York City in November of this year. Is it possible people have seen one of these in test flights?
https://www.jobyaviation.com/news/j...ectric-air-taxi-charger-new-york-city-region/
The above article talks about their plan to install the first charging station in Kearney, New Jersey.
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