Lights in Sky filmed by Sheriff, Ocean County, New Jersey

[flarkey]

Here's a news report with NJ police showing footage of a drone that looks suspiciously like another plane

https://newjersey.news12.com/exclus...jflzDu6jtQlxqwJTpg_aem_sVCudsZu4lBFIPdWA-RoAQ

EXCLUSIVE: Drone captured on camera by Ocean County Sheriff's Office

The Ocean County Sheriff's Office says sightings were reported in the western and southern parts of the county.

"We saw something flying a little low," said Sgt. Kevin Fennessy, of the Ocean County Sheriff's Office. "We took some video of it, and we're not really sure what it was. Definitely something flying low and fast."

The Sheriff's Office was on drone patrol Saturday night after a rash of unexplained sightings statewide. What began in Morris County has made its way down the Parkway. This is the first time that the Ocean County Sheriff's Office has documented one of these encounters on camera.

"It was coming our direction," said Detective Anthony D'Amico, of the Ocean County Sheriff's Office. "It spun around 180 degrees, went back out the other way, then it kind of looped around and then took off past us."

The drone team's setup includes wide and thermal cameras. They say the object they saw was larger and faster than a recreational drone, and unlisted on FlightRadar.

"We noticed that it was flying a little bit lower than it should have been for a plane," said D'Amico. "We checked the radar, we didn't see that there were any planes in the area. It was five, six miles out, and it was probably moving about 60 to 70 miles per hour."

Footage of a 'drone'

They also include screenshots of their drone app...

...and them checking FlightRadar24 for nearby flights....

Time and date: 18:15 EST Dec 7 2024...

I wonder is this enough info to work out what they actually saw....?

 

[jarlrmai]

So people will now be seeing the police drones that are up in response to reports of people seeing drones..

omg feedback loop

 

[Mendel]

Here a news report with NJ police showing footage of a drone that looks suspiciously like another plane

https://newjersey.news12.com/exclus...jflzDu6jtQlxqwJTpg_aem_sVCudsZu4lBFIPdWA-RoAQ

"It was coming our direction," said Detective Anthony D'Amico, of the Ocean County Sheriff's Office. "It spun around 180 degrees, went back out the other way, then it kind of looped around and then took off past us."

Another one for the "trained observer" file. I must admit I can't work out what these words are supposed to mean.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Here a news report with NJ police showing footage of a drone that looks suspiciously like another plane

https://newjersey.news12.com/exclus...jflzDu6jtQlxqwJTpg_aem_sVCudsZu4lBFIPdWA-RoAQ




Footage of a 'drone'
View attachment 74178

They also include screenshots of their drone app...
View attachment 74179

...and them checking FlightRadar24 for nearby flights....
View attachment 74181

Time and date: 18:15 EST Dec 7 2024...
View attachment 74182

I wonder is this enough info to work out what they actually saw....?

First, it's important to note that this is a side view of something low and in the distance. Not a bottom view of something flying overhead.

"It was coming our direction," said Detective Anthony D'Amico, of the Ocean County Sheriff's Office. "It spun around 180 degrees, went back out the other way, then it kind of looped around and then took off past us."

The drone team's setup includes wide and thermal cameras. They say the object they saw was larger and faster than a recreational drone, and unlisted on FlightRadar.

"We noticed that it was flying a little bit lower than it should have been for a plane," said D'Amico. "We checked the radar, we didn't see that there were any planes in the area. It was five, six miles out, and it was probably moving about 60 to 70 miles per hour."

The object has four noticeable lights. In the rear is one steady light. It's hard to tell the color of that light. There is also one white LED strobe in the rear. Out front, it has two red strobes.

Red strobes

My tentative identification: It's a distant helicopter.

We have a side view of the helicopter - the right side. There's one red LED strobe anti-collision light on the top of the helicopter and another on the underside. Both red strobes are visible, even though we're seeing the right side of the aircraft.

The steady light and brighter white LED strobe are on the tail.

There must be a steady green navigation light somewhere on the right side. But the helicopter is miles distant... it's hard to say how many miles... and the green light is too dim to be seen at that distance.

"It was coming our direction," said Detective Anthony D'Amico, of the Ocean County Sheriff's Office. "It spun around 180 degrees, went back out the other way, then it kind of looped around and then took off past us."

One should always be wary of compounding errors. Just reading this, it's natural to imagine the thing close to the witness and making wild maneuvers.

...took off past us.

That makes me imagine something approaching from one direction and then going away the other. Like standing next to a road and seeing a car approaching and going by.

But the words are ambiguous. "Going past" here means it was always in the distance, and "going past" the way a distant aircraft will go past you.

We know this because of this...

It was five, six miles out, and it was probably moving about 60 to 70 miles per hour.

And because that's what we see in this short, edited clip. An aircraft in the distance "going past."

Always be wary of ambiguous descriptions.

"It spun around 180 degrees, went back out the other way, then it kind of looped around and then took off past us."

That sounds like a distant circling helicopter. The copter then stops circling and flies straight.

The ambiguity would probably be resolved if we got the entire video instead of this very short clip. But, as usual, there's no detailed analysis in this fluff piece.

It's akin to those godawful "interviews" you get on the local news after a moderate earthquake. "The whole building was shaking. I was scared." There has to be some human interest part of the story.

I'd also like details about what kind of camera was in use.

The drone team's setup includes wide and thermal cameras.

Was the camera that took this video a color IR camera? Colors might appear different in such a video.

They say the object they saw was larger and faster than a recreational drone, and unlisted on FlightRadar.

"We checked the radar, we didn't see that there were any planes in the area.

How Flightradar24 works

Spoiler: details

ADS-B
The primary technology that Flightradar24 use to receive flight information is called automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B).

Automatic: the flight crew does not need to do anything to transmit the signal
Dependent: the position data is dependent on the global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) being used by the transponder (GPS, GLONASS, Baidu, Galileo, etc)
Surveillance: the technology is used a surveillance tool to know where aircraft are at any given time
Broadcast: the aircraft is broadcasting the data to all receivers
What does Flightradar24 do with that data?

The ADS-B transponder transmits a signal containing the position of the aircraft (and much more)
ADS-B signal is picked up by a receiver connected to Flightradar24's network
Receiver sends data to Flightradar24
Data is shown on www.flightradar24.com and in Flightradar24 apps
Introduced a few decades ago, ADS-B usage has grown steadily as various mandates requiring updated transponders have come into force in places like the United States, Canada, Europe, and Australia. ADS-B technology is the long-term air traffic management replacement for radar technologies, especially in areas with limited radar coverage, such as remote areas and oceanic airspace.

Flightradar24 has a network of more than 40,000 ADS-B ground based receivers around the world that receive flight information from aircraft with ADS-B transponders and send this information to our servers. Due to the high frequency used (1090 MHz) the coverage from each receiver is limited to about 250-450 km (150-250 miles) in all directions depending on location. The farther away from the receiver an aircraft is flying, the higher it must fly to be covered by the receiver. The distance limit makes it very difficult to get terrestrial ADS-B coverage over oceans.

ADS-B is a relatively new technology under development, which means that today it's rarely used by Air Traffic Control (ATC).

When mandatory, ADS-B will replace primary radar as the primary surveillance method used by ATC.

MLAT
In regions with coverage from several Flightradar24 receivers we also calculate positions of non-ADS-B equipped aircraft with the help of Multilateration (MLAT), by using a method known as Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA). By measuring the time it takes to receive the signal from aircraft with an older Mode S transponder, it's possible to calculate the position of these aircraft. Four or more Flightradar24 receivers receiving signals from the same aircraft are needed for MLAT calculations. Because four or more receivers are needed to calculate the aircraft's position, this can only be achieved at higher altitudes and in areas with many receivers.

Satellite
Satellite-based flight tracking is the latest step in our quest for global ADS-B coverage. Satellites equipped with ADS-B receivers collect data from aircraft outside our terrestrial ADS-B network's coverage area and send that data to the Flightradar24 network. Satellite-based ADS-B data available on Flightradar24 comes from multiple providers. As the number of satellites supplying data and their location are dynamic, satellite coverage varies. Generally, satellite-based ADS-B increases coverage of flights over the ocean where ground-based reception is not possible. Only aircraft equipped with an ADS-B transponder may be tracked via satellite.

North America Radar Data
In addition to ADS-B and MLAT, we also receive additional live data for flights in North America. This data is based on radar data (not just aircraft equipped with ADS-B transponders) and includes most scheduled and commercial air traffic in the US and Canadian airspace, as well as parts of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

What are the chances of a small, low flying helicopter showing up on Flightradar24? Slim to none, I'd suspect. People here with more knowledge can add details about that.

"We checked the radar...

Another possible compounding error. I think many people picture a guy bent over an active radar screen like in a 1960's movie. They don't know about transponders, etc. So if a mystery drone doesn't "show up on radar", it must be something with a cloaking device.

 

[Ann K]

Now that every light in the sky, up to and including distant stars, is seen as an impending UFO invasion, is there any "trained observer" that will recognize the real thing, or do we have to wait for the green men and the "Take me to your leader" part of the program?

 

[Kyle Ferriter]

Here a news report with NJ police showing footage of a drone that looks suspiciously like another plane

This does look like some kind of plane. I'll add that smaller prop planes often fly at significantly lower altitudes and speeds, even compared to low/slow airliners on landing paths a couple miles away from airports.

Last night I was watching a large airliner and a small prop plane in my field of view at the same time and the small one looked fairly different than the airliner due to how low it was, and it was on a flight path that didn't make sense for a normal commercial flight between airports. The smaller prop planes are often people just flying for fun or sightseeing, and the paths might include a bunch of random loops or zigzags for no apparent reason. Unfortunately I didn't take a video, because it was cold and I didn't think it was that interesting at the time.

 

[Kyle Ferriter]

Time and date: 18:15 EST Dec 7 2024

There were 3 different small prop planes doing loops or zigzags not that far from Tom's River at 18:15 EST, Dec 7 2024, at relatively low altitudes and speeds. See first 3 screenshots attached. Without knowing the exact location they were filming and the direction it was in, it's hard to narrow down.

4th attached screenshot confirms it's the correct time because the same flight is selected in the same location. It'd be nice to know how they determined it wasn't any of the planes on the flight tracker. It's hard to make accurate distance judgements.

 

[jarlrmai]

Ar around that time there was a few prop plane takeoffs from Ocean County Airport

Including a Cessna 172 that was weirdly double squawking with one normal hex and another non ICAO hex that did a takeoff then a touch and go
And a Piper that took off SW but looped to port and headed NNE

Neither of these seem to show on the FR24 screenshot the police show.

 

[jarlrmai]

Also a CH-53 Super Stallion with some weird squawks as well (Id corrected)

 

[sigmops]

Does anyone know why FlightRadar24 would not show those two small planes?

Also do folks here generally recognize ADSB Exchange to be the superior source for airplane tracking? I have defaulted to using it, but have at times wondered if its ever necessary to double check with FR24.

 

[flarkey]

View attachment 74195

Also a blackhawk with some weird squawks as well

I think it's a CH53?

 

[flarkey]

Does anyone know why FlightRadar24 would not show those two small planes?

Also do folks here generally recognize ADSB Exchange to be the superior source for airplane tracking? I have defaulted to using it, but have at times wondered if its ever necessary to double check with FR24.

yes, different ADSB feeders. Some may not send data to FlightRadar24, but do send to ADSB Exchange.

 

[jarlrmai]

I thought I read somewhere that FR24 filters some flights as well?

 

[jarlrmai]

Does anyone know why FlightRadar24 would not show those two small planes?

Also do folks here generally recognize ADSB Exchange to be the superior source for airplane tracking? I have defaulted to using it, but have at times wondered if its ever necessary to double check with FR24.

You often need to check both and even then there's no guarantee, for instance in the Manchester balloon thread one of the planes is not on ADSB Ex, but is on FR24.

 

[NorCal Dave]

yes, different ADSB feeders. Some may not send data to FlightRadar24, but do send to ADSB Exchange

I use FlightAware and military flights seem to be hit and miss. I assume that's the military flights "squawking" or not?

Some are very obvious, like big C5/C17s. Sometimes they show up as "grizzly"or AFEAR17 with their entire flight recorded from Travis AFB up to the Oregon coast, then lots of loops, then over me before making their way home:

Other times they fly over pretty low, like the one above, but nothing shows up.

Am I correct in assuming FlightRadar24, FlightAware and others are basically consumer apps for fun and curiosity? They're not definitive sources for what's in the air at any giving time, right?

 

[jarlrmai]

Yes

Some flights don't need to broadcast, the rules vary by country.

The signals are picked up by enthusiasts running receivers and uploading the signal.

So no receiver in range no data.

In general if you see a plane it's really there, but no data doesn't mean no plane.

It is possible to inject false data into the system although the providers will try to spot it and ban the uploader.

 

[JMartJr]

It is possible to inject false data into the system although the providers will try to spot it and make ban the uploader.

Out of curiosity, is this something folks actually do? To what end?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I have a suggestion.

The aircraft that the officers saw making the odd maneuvers and the aircraft in the video are not the same. It's not unusual for UFO witnesses to shift their attention from one object to another.

We don't know what kind of camera this video was recorded by. Was it handheld? Was it on their drone? How much time went by between the time officers witnessed the odd maneuvers and the video started?

I think this scenario would be credible:
They saw an aircraft making strange maneuvers. Some time went by while they were working on getting the camera set up. They hunted around with the camera and found something in the sky. But that something was a different aircraft.

The first object was one of the aircraft that was turning/circling: The CH-53, the Cessna 172S, etc.

The aircraft in the video is the 737; UA443.

I've put the video in question on YT to make it easier to embed.


The four visible lights are, from left to right:
-The illuminated tail
-The white LED strobe on the tail
-The red LED strobes on the top and bottom of the fuselage

The other lights are not visible because of three factors:
-Distance
-Angle
-Glare from the brighter lights

The aircraft is not flying straight across the camera's line of sight, but away from the camera diagonally.

I've had to flop this frame from a YT video to get the proper angle.

Note that the landing lights wouldn't be on.

The original YT video


It sure would help if we knew where the camera was and what direction it was pointed.

 

[jarlrmai]

It sure would help if we knew where the camera was and what direction it was pointed.

As always, we never get this.

 

[jarlrmai]

Maybe we can form a private organisation to consult for law enforcement who are experiencing a local drone flap..

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

We wouldn't be taken seriously. We're random civilians. Cops are trained observers. They would just dismiss us with a formal but subtly patronizing statement.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

They've already dismissed the possibility that this is a fixed wing aircraft.

Although planes can be easily mistaken as drones, officials say this was no plane.

"Planes have a white tail light coming from them, and each wing has a different color, whether it be red or green," Fennessy explained. "Drones sometimes have different flashing lights. Planes, those red and green lights are solid. Whatever it is, it's different."

The red and green position (navigation) lights are not visible because of distance, angle and glare from the brighter lights.

Distance has two factors working for it:
-Atmospheric extinction
-The inverse square law

The LED strobes are many times as bright as the position lights.
The illuminated tail is less bright than the strobes but has a large angular size.

This makes them visible in the video when the position lights are not.

Planes have a white tail light coming from them...

The aircraft does have a white tail light "coming from" it... if he means a white LED strobe. The steady white light on the tail (the rear facing position light) is not visible because of distance and being lost in the glare from the illuminated tail and white LED strobe.

 

[Mick West]

Ar around that time there was a few prop plane takeoffs from Ocean County Airport

Including a Cessna 172 that was weirdly double squawking with one normal hex and another non ICAO hex that did a takeoff then a touch and go
And a Piper that took off SW but looped to port and headed NNE

Neither of these seem to show on the FR24 screenshot the police show.

View attachment 74194

The touch-and-go plane is N292SP. It goes in and out, and at some points appears twice, probably because of a partial read from some station.

I think this is a likely candidate.

I've emailed the sheriff's office to try to get more info.

 

[jarlrmai]

The touch-and-go plane is N292SP. It goes in and out, and at some points appears twice, probably because of a partial read from some station. View attachment 74200

Looks like the same station picked up the Stallion as it has a similar double read.

 

[Ann K]

We wouldn't be taken seriously. We're random civilians. Cops are trained observers. They would just dismiss us with a formal but subtly patronizing statement.

To be fair, the fact that the thing was seen by the sheriff would make it harder for them to submit a report that might contradict him.

 

[john.phil]

I think this is a likely candidate.

N292SP is a Cessna 172S:

source: https://aeroxplorer.com/viewphoto.php?id=29739

source: https://www.planespotters.net/photo/1656382/n292sp-private-cessna-172s-skyhawk-sp

The Cessna 172S manual describes the lighting configuration as:

SECTION 7 AIRPLANE & SYSTEMS DESCRIPTION

LIGHTING SYSTEMS

EXTERIOR LIGHTING

Exterior lighting consists of navigation lights on the wing tips and tip of the vertical stabilizer, landing/taxi lights located on the left wing leading edge, a flashing beacon mounted on top of the vertical stabilizer, and a strobe light on each wing tip. Two courtesy lights are recessed into the lower surfaces of each wing and provide illumination for each cabin door area.

source: https://wayman.edu/files/C172S-G1000-POH.pdf

Here there is footage of a touch & go of a Cessna 172 at night, matching the light pattern description above:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR-Girnjcyg&t=40s


I have separated the police footage from the news report:

From the police footage, the airborne object's lighting does not match the standard light configuration of the Cessna 172S.

 

[jimmyslippin]

So people will now be seeing the police drones that are up in response to reports of people seeing drones..

omg feedback loop

lol... That was my exact first thought the moment I saw that drone.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I agree that it's not the Cessna 172S we see in the video, nor is it the UH-53.

As far as I can see, with the limited data we have, those two aircraft may have played a role, but the best candidate is the 737 I cited - UA443.

The Cessna or UH-53 may have caught the eye of the witnesses with their maneuvers, but once the camera was in play, the attention shifted to the 737. We don't see any maneuvers in the short video clip. Just an aircraft flying straight and level.

If we had better data it may turn out to be something different from UA443. But I'd bet it would also be a distant airliner.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Yes

Some flights don't need to broadcast, the rules vary by country.

The signals are picked up by enthusiasts running receivers and uploading the signal.

So no receiver in range no data.

In general if you see a plane it's really there, but no data doesn't mean no plane.

It is possible to inject false data into the system although the providers will try to spot it and ban the uploader.

We should have a seperate thread to explain exactly what Flightradar24 is and how it works. Is it fair to call it a hobbyist site?

 

[Mendel]

We should have a seperate thread to explain exactly what Flightradar24 is and how it works. Is it fair to call it a hobbyist site?

FR24 / Flightradar24 is a commercial site that crowdsources some of its data.

The receivers need a line of sight to the aircraft, which is why low-flying aircraft can get "lost", especially in mountainous terrain. For that reason, in many crashes the ADS-B track does not go all the way down.

When data originates from multiple receivers that are not on synchronized clocks, the resultant track can appear jumpy. Evidence for this can be found in the raw data that identifies the receiving stations for each data point.

 

[Jack Mallory]

"It was coming our direction," said Detective Anthony D'Amico, of the Ocean County Sheriff's Office. "It spun around 180 degrees, went back out the other way, then it kind of looped around and then took off past us."

Another one for the "trained observer" file. I must admit I can't work out what these words are supposed to mean.

In the original video clip, it seems as though his partner is doing everything he can not to laugh during that exchange. Personally, however, I felt no need for such restraint.

As a side note: About a year ago I attended an evening tribute to a fallen officer at a local police station. I would guess there were four to five hundred people there, along with four or five somewhat conspicuous drones overhead. I assumed that those were a combination of police drones and media drones. But one in particular got my attention more than the others. It seemed to be nearly silent, and it noticeably "went dark" a few times where it completely disappeared from sight, only to reappear a minute or two later nearby. I'm just wondering about the degree of stealth technology available to local police, or if there's any at all that surpasses what's available to the general public?

 

[Mendel]

I'm just wondering about the degree of stealth technology available to local police, or if there's any at all that surpasses what's available to the general public?

I think stealth involves silent blades (these can be bought as replacement, I think) and turning the light off. Or simply being far away, I can't find a drone in the sky at 100m or more even when I know where to look.

 

[JMartJr]

It seemed to be nearly silent, and it noticeably "went dark"

I'm not sure the "anti collision" lights can be turned off. My son's drone has a landing light, though, that can be turned on, and automatically turns on if it senses ground or a roof or something within a given range. It is a LOT less visible without that light on.

I think stealth involves silent blades (these can be bought as replacement, I think)

Yep.

Source: https://www.masterairscrew.com/products/dji-mavic-2-stealth-upgrade-propellers-x4-black

 

[Mauro]

I'm not sure the "anti collision" lights can be turned off.

Surely one can cut the wires

 

[FatPhil]

I think stealth involves silent blades (these can be bought as replacement, I think) and turning the light off. Or simply being far away, I can't find a drone in the sky at 100m or more even when I know where to look.

More on noise reduction in props here (by ActionLab):

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58RORCUTao

Method 1: uneven spacing of the blades, which puts the energy into different, in particular lower, harmonics of the fundamental prop frequency.
Method 2: toroidal blades that have no tips, and therefore no tip vortices.