Drills on the same day as terrorist attacks

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Sometimes there are drills. Sometimes there are disasters. Sometimes they coincide.

Look into them in depth, they are generally unrelated to the thing that happened on the same day. It's just cherry picking.
 

saveus

New Member
"Sometimes" seems to look like "every major terror attack since the 90s" upon close examination.

I don't really believe in these "theories" either. But I'm looking to disprove them. Future posters: please skim through the list on the link I posted to see the strange correlations.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I would suggest looking for lists of various drills, to start. Then see how many went off with no disasters.

There are many drills of various types held every month in the US. Rarely there are disasters. Think about the classic fortune cookie fortunes. Like 'You will meet a tall, dark stranger' or 'soon you will travel'. You never remember the ones that didn't come true (of course you will be looking for a tall,dark stranger'_--That one would work as well if it said you will see a red pickup in the next 24 hrs)
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Here's a link which claims to list a series of pertinent drills building up too and on the day of 9/11. Most of them seem to check out, though I'm sure one could interpret them differently. Still, that's a lot of related exercises taking place that day, and a lot of similar scenarios being played out prior considering how 'in the dark' government officials of the highest office assured the American people we were in regard to terrorist attacks using hijacked planes as weapons. It would seem reasonable to question why so many drills were taking place at that one time, whether that's unusual, and why at least one of them deviated from the usual annual schedule for that date in particular. The 'big-ol' kuh-wink-eee-dink' response is all well and good, but doesn't the question deserve a smidgeon more respect given the context of the attacks?
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
I've been seeing this theory a lot. People talk about how it must be a conspiracy because there are identical drills in the same area on the same day. This article is the best way to sum it up:

http://rense.com/general95/terrorll.html
Here is an example of Rense's truth.

It is not a FEMA exercise but a FEMA class.

http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/courseOverview.aspx?code=is-366

You can take the course yourself. The course deals with the specific needs of children in disasters such as different food, the need to screen potential registered sex offenders from congregant shelters involving children, etc. It is not an exercise and did not involve crisis actors.

The plane into the building drill that Rense sites:

  1. NRO is adjacent to Dulles airport and not a few miles from the pentagon. 20+ in fact.
  2. These type of drills are to be expected as NRO is close to an airport where planes land. They were worried about an accidental crash.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Here's a link which claims to list a series of pertinent drills building up too and on the day of 9/11. Most of them seem to check out, though I'm sure one could interpret them differently. Still, that's a lot of related exercises taking place that day, and a lot of similar scenarios being played out prior considering how 'in the dark' government officials of the highest office assured the American people we were in regard to terrorist attacks using hijacked planes as weapons. It would seem reasonable to question why so many drills were taking place at that one time, whether that's unusual, and why at least one of them deviated from the usual annual schedule for that date in particular. The 'big-ol' kuh-wink-eee-dink' response is all well and good, but doesn't the question deserve a smidgeon more respect given the context of the attacks?
You say, "Most of them seem to check out." Can you provide some evidence?
 

Grieves

Senior Member
http://www.abledangerblog.com/2006/02/lt-col-shaffers-written-testimony.html
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=abefore091101virgo2

From the 9/11 Commission Report
NOTES TO CHAPTER 1 457 & 458
Quote:
A 1998 White House tabletop exercise chaired by Richard Clarke included a scenario in which a terrorist group loaded a Learjet with explosives and took off for a suicide mission to Washington. Military officials said they could scramble fighter jets from Langley Air Force Base to chase the aircraft,but they would need "executive"orders to shoot it down. Chuck Green interview (Apr. 21, 2004).
http://www.globalresearch.ca/press-...9-11-commission-and-operation-able-danger/965
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactive,_Preemptive_Operations_Group
http://letsrollforums.com/norad-exercise-2000-crash-t21995.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_MASCAL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_operations_and_exercises_on_September_11,_2001
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=global_guardian
http://www.911myths.com/html/nro_drill.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060704_tripod_fema.html


covers most of the big ones I think... its a relatively simple matter to confirm whether or not these drills/exercises existed, typically the only thing being argued is their intent.
 
The pattern that I tend to see is that something horrible will happen and there was a drill on the same day.

Then people start looking at when drills are happening (having had no interest in them before and no idea how many had occurred or are occurring). You end up with lots of warnings about be careful on so and so day because there's a drill occurring.

Nothing happens on these days.

The something horrible happens and there was a drill on the same day.

Rinse and repeat.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
The pattern that I tend to see is that something horrible will happen and there was a drill on the same day.

Then people start looking at when drills are happening (having had no interest in them before and no idea how many had occurred or are occurring). You end up with lots of warnings about be careful on so and so day because there's a drill occurring.

Nothing happens on these days.

The something horrible happens and there was a drill on the same day.

Rinse and repeat.
Yeah, the response to this issue seems generally flippant from the debunking side. I find it interesting a concentration of related drills and exorcises on a particular day with loose or direct connections to the non-simulated events of that day is seemingly presumed to be entirely normal. If it is it is, but it doesn't seem that way to me. In fact to me it seems rather suspicious, actually. So is the next step to disregard my suspicion as nonsensical in general evasion of the issue, or can any sort of effort be made to verify/prove/compellingly argue for why there's nothing unusual about it, other than the usual 'well, Government probably runs a lot of drills, don't it?'
 

Grieves

Senior Member
To you? Probably not.

You're suspicious.

I don't care that you are.
Surely not.
What do you care about me?
I'm just some asshole on the internet.
How about Donna Marsh O'Connor though, who's daughter and unborn grandchild were killed in the attack?
She seems suspicious too. Just like countless other family members of victims. They want answers, not from me or from you, but from the people who were supposed to be thoroughly investigating the deaths of their loved ones, and who failed to do so... caving to evident pressures from an administration who failed to devote even a fraction of the effort, funding or authority necessary to get the job done right.

This forum is about debunking, right? That's what you're here for, isn't it? So, can you debunk the idea that it's quite unusual for related drills to be running the same day of the tragedy? How about in the case of London 7/7 bombings? Can anyone at least explain what the assumption of coincidence is based in? Is there some record of dozens of daily hijacking/terror attack related drills throughout the year I'm not seeing? If so, could I see it?
 

Grieves

Senior Member
I'm here for the chemtrails. I'll post my observations on other topics if they seem relevant.

9/11 bores me to tears. Sorry.
How exceptionally crass and generally heartless. I hope you're just trolling, and not so dreadful a human being as all that. In any event, if the violent murders which catalyzed the entire modern North American ethos are so terribly dull to you, perhaps you could keep out of related threads.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Grieves I think that violates the politeness policy.

How many drills go on in US on any given day? How many of these drills happen with nothing else happening that day?

I participate in something that happens on Memorial Day weekend, in Dallas. It is not unusual for there to be severe storms that weekend. I guess that one could look at that and decide that God, Mother Nature, weather witches or the government causes the storms on that weekend.

You cannot cherry pick a date and then use what you find for it as evidence.

Years ago, my Dad had a car he was proud of, it was a real nice demo. Newer and fancier than he normally bought. He bought it in late Feb. At the end of March, he was taking me to school on the way to work one rainy morning and lost control on a bad patch of pavement and went into a horse pasture. It took about a month for the repairs. Got it back and in May, someone backed into it at the grocery store and left a huge dent in the rear fender. He was going to get that repaired during the summer (when it was dry--they couldn't paint a car during rainy weather), but he kept washing it. In late June, a woman stopped in front of him on the freeway and he took out the guard rail so back to the shop. He stopped washing it, when he got it back. (BTW, those were the ONLY 2 major accidents he ever had, before or after. No more wrecks. By your reasoning, washing the car caused it to get into wrecks.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Grieves I think that violates the politeness policy.
I'll gladly take the ban on this one if that's the case, Cairenn. I've got much harsher language for anyone who thinks of the brutal mass-murder which entirely redefined our society as 'boring'. Shit's callous to an extreme degree.

How many drills go on in US on any given day? How many of these drills happen with nothing else happening that day?
No idea. Perhaps you could assist me in that regard? I've had a search about the web, but I can't find any figures on the subject. If there's a record of other, uneventful days in which multiple hijacking and terrorist attack drills and exorcises were concentrated prior to Sept. 11th, then it would indeed seem rather significantly less suspicious. Again, all I've heard from the debunking side on this is 'well, lots of drills in America, y'know...' and never with anything to back that up.

I participate in something that happens on Memorial Day weekend, in Dallas. It is not unusual for there to be severe storms that weekend. I guess that one could look at that and decide that God, Mother Nature, weather witches or the government causes the storms on that weekend.

You cannot cherry pick a date and then use what you find for it as evidence.
So the drills in your area are scheduled based on the expected or likely weather patterns around that time of year, and being prepared for those expected/likely weather patterns, just in case? I don't see how this strengthens your position that related drills scheduled for/around 9/11 aren't evidence of expectation/preparation/foreknowledge. Unless you're not even talking about a bad-weather drill, and are just commenting on how it frequently rains on this event of yours... in which case I don't see the relevance.

Years ago, my Dad had a car he was proud of, it was a real nice demo. Newer and fancier than he normally bought. He bought it in late Feb. At the end of March, he was taking me to school on the way to work one rainy morning and lost control on a bad patch of pavement and went into a horse pasture. It took about a month for the repairs. Got it back and in May, someone backed into it at the grocery store and left a huge dent in the rear fender. He was going to get that repaired during the summer (when it was dry--they couldn't paint a car during rainy weather), but he kept washing it. In late June, a woman stopped in front of him on the freeway and he took out the guard rail so back to the shop. He stopped washing it, when he got it back. (BTW, those were the ONLY 2 major accidents he ever had, before or after. No more wrecks. By your reasoning, washing the car caused it to get into wrecks.
I'm sorry, I don't understand the relevance of this anecdote, nor the point you're trying to make with it. Could you explain how you perceive my reasoning here?
 
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Thane Cesar

New Member
The drills are an illuminati ritual.I forget what its called, but its a prelude to an act that they plan to commit. This is also evident in the various instances of 911 appearing before spetember 11th
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Coincidence, is not evidence of something.
Washing the car did not make get into wrecks. However, it could look like that.

I ask again, How many drills are held around the US every day? Federal drills, airport drills, police dept drills, hospital drills and on and on.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Surely not.
What do you care about me?
I'm just some asshole on the internet.
How about Donna Marsh O'Connor though, who's daughter and unborn grandchild were killed in the attack?
She seems suspicious too. Just like countless other family members of victims. They want answers, not from me or from you, but from the people who were supposed to be thoroughly investigating the deaths of their loved ones, and who failed to do so... caving to evident pressures from an administration who failed to devote even a fraction of the effort, funding or authority necessary to get the job done right.

This forum is about debunking, right? That's what you're here for, isn't it? So, can you debunk the idea that it's quite unusual for related drills to be running the same day of the tragedy? How about in the case of London 7/7 bombings? Can anyone at least explain what the assumption of coincidence is based in? Is there some record of dozens of daily hijacking/terror attack related drills throughout the year I'm not seeing? If so, could I see it?
I am certain there is a record of drills but not centralised and kept at local level by which ever authority requested/ran it.

I would like to address the drills during the London bombings. Firstly they were a paper exercise but secondly drills go on like this all the time whether paper or in the field. I had a posting in London (with the Scots Guards) for a few months and as a senior medic I was involved in a great number of exercises and wargames. Most were in reaction to such IRA bombings as Hyde and Regents Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent's_Park_bombings but for me the main focus was attacks in the Royal Parks/Horseguards/the Palace etc. There were a great number of contingency plans in place and from what I understand there was a multidisciplinary team that would brainstorm more scenarios, often though in reaction to current attacks/events. During my time (80's) there was some form of exercise, live or paper, happening every day. In my opinion you can never exercise enough. So when I read that there was a paper exercise on the day of the London bombings I was nit surprised.

I appreciate that is purely anecdotal but I will say that I would expect the number of drills/exercises to be at least comparable to the UK if not more, especially given the challenges the US law enforcement face with firearms as compared to us.
 

Thane Cesar

New Member
Coincidence, is not evidence of something.
Washing the car did not make get into wrecks. However, it could look like that.

I ask again, How many drills are held around the US every day? Federal drills, airport drills, police dept drills, hospital drills and on and on.
Most drills are just drills, but every once in a while a drill becomes a real disaster.

Kinda like how the FBI stages terror attacks.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Do you have any evidence that the 'FBI stages terror attacks'? Other than the rants of a few conspiracy theorists?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I'll gladly take the ban on this one if that's the case, Cairenn. I've got much harsher language for anyone who thinks of the brutal mass-murder which entirely redefined our society as 'boring'. Shit's callous to an extreme degree.

...
It's not the event that is boring, it's the circular arguments that insistently play out that are - there's a difference between finding that boring and finding the event itself boring.

I think the limits of debunking reach to showing that drills happen on other days, to a regular consistency that make it likely a tragic event will happen on a day close to drills. There's no way an insistence on finding that significant can be debunked, so you'll just have to live with it I'm afraid.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
It's not the event that is boring, it's the circular arguments that insistently play out that are - there's a difference between finding that boring and finding the event itself boring.
If he wants to correct himself, allow him too. He said what he said, and it's not what you're saying here. You don't have to leap to his defense, it's not a team-sport.

I think the limits of debunking reach to showing that drills happen on other days, to a regular consistency that make it likely a tragic event will happen on a day close to drills.
There's no way an insistence on finding that significant can be debunked, so you'll just have to live with it I'm afraid.
If that's the case, could someone make a reach for these 'limits', and actually provide a mote of substantiation? Like, actually SHOWING that terrorist attack and hijacking drills are indeed as common as you say? That's all I keep hearing, over and over again on this subject, "Oooohh, the US runs lots of drills, so it's perfectly normal." Well that's great to say and all, but I've yet to see any evidence of it. Yes, surely, lots of drills were run in America in any given month prior to 9/11. But WERE they typically as concentrated as they were on 9/11, and WERE they frequently involving terrorist attacks/hijacked planes? Was it unusual or not, and on what are you basing the presumption that it isn't? All I'm getting here is 'we're assuming so, and that should be good enough."
Do you have any evidence that the 'FBI stages terror attacks'? Other than the rants of a few conspiracy theorists?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/o...ped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 here you go. It's actually something of an acknowledged fact.
I would like to address the drills during the London bombings. Firstly they were a paper exercise but secondly drills go on like this all the time whether paper or in the field. I had a posting in London (with the Scots Guards) for a few months and as a senior medic I was involved in a great number of exercises and wargames. Most were in reaction to such IRA bombings as Hyde and Regents Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent's_Park_bombings but for me the main focus was attacks in the Royal Parks/Horseguards/the Palace etc. There were a great number of contingency plans in place and from what I understand there was a multidisciplinary team that would brainstorm more scenarios, often though in reaction to current attacks/events. During my time (80's) there was some form of exercise, live or paper, happening every day. In my opinion you can never exercise enough. So when I read that there was a paper exercise on the day of the London bombings I was nit surprised.

I appreciate that is purely anecdotal but I will say that I would expect the number of drills/exercises to be at least comparable to the UK if not more, especially given the challenges the US law enforcement face with firearms as compared to us.
There's nothing at all wrong with an anecdote when it has bearing on the subject at hand. I understand how there would be no shortage of drills and exorcises taking place with various emergency services throughout the year in the UK, likely on an almost daily basis. That said, the drill taking place on the day of the London bombings, as claimed by the man orchestrating it, was meant to simulate response to bombings at the exact same sites where the bombings actually took place. That seems a rather cosmic-scale coincidence, doesn't it? Can it really be explained by "Well, folks were brain-storming about 9/11, guess they just got lucky..!"
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Setting up dupes for entrapment is not the same as staging an actual attack.
The media coverage of these instances of entrapment sell them to the American people as actual terrorist attacks, thwarted by the FBI. If a majority of Americans are lead to believe these were actual attacks which threatened actual lives, and experience any amount of fear/distrust/paranoia as a result which influenced their opinions or their votes, that qualifies as terrorism, doesn't it? If not, why?

ter·ror·ism
[ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
The media coverage of these instances of entrapment sell them to the American people as actual terrorist attacks, thwarted by the FBI. If a majority of Americans are lead to believe these were actual attacks which threatened actual lives, and experience any amount of fear/distrust/paranoia as a result which influenced their opinions or their votes, that qualifies as terrorism, doesn't it? If not, why?
Except now you are moving the goal posts. The original claim was that "the FBI stages terror attacks"- to which you claimed is was "an acknowledged fact". That is simply not accurate.

You now want to expand the scope of discussion to "terrorism"...which is understandable..and indeed you have a point.

But it doesn't change the fact that the original claim is false. None of the sting operations set up by the FBI resulted in an actual "attack".
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
If he wants to correct himself, allow him too. He said what he said, and it's not what you're saying here. You don't have to leap to his defense, it's not a team-sport.

....
I just related to his statement, in that the arguing around this event alternately frustrates, aggravates, and bores me, and so gave my opinion of the statement's meaning as one who feels the same.
But you're right, he can speak for himself if he thinks it worth clarifying, it seemed straight-forward to me though. It was your twisting of the statement to mean something it didn't that concerned me.



...
If that's the case, could someone make a reach for these 'limits', and actually provide a mote of substantiation? Like, actually SHOWING that terrorist attack and hijacking drills are indeed as common as you say? ....
I don't know if this is what you're looking for (I suspect it wont be no matter what anyway) but here is a list of Fema drills I found on above top secret

If he wants to correct himself, allow him too. He said what he said, and it's not what you're saying here. You don't have to leap to his defense, it's not a team-sport.

....
I just related to his statement, in that the arguing around this event alternately frustrates, aggravates, and bores me, and so gave my opinion of the statement's meaning as one who feels the same.
But you're right, he can speak for himself if he thinks it worth clarifying, it seemed straight-forward to me though.



...
If that's the case, could someone make a reach for these 'limits', and actually provide a mote of substantiation? Like, actually SHOWING that terrorist attack and hijacking drills are indeed as common as you say? ....
I don't know if this is what you're looking for (I suspect it wont be no matter what anyway) but here is a list of Fema drills I found on above top secret

http://www.emd.wa.gov/plans/documents/ExercisesandEventsCalendar-2009.pdf
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
And those are just the ones the FEMA holds. Local police and fire departments, airports, schools, universities, and even large companies hold drills. States, counties and cities also run drills. Locally the tornado sirens are sounded at noon of the first Wed in every month, unless there is severe weather in the area of forecast for that day.

Schools have fire and tornado drills, when I was in school, we also had 'nuke bomb' drills. Having a drill and a plan is good, not having them is foolish.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member


Not a drill or an exercise but a classified military planning project.
Your link doesn't mention 9/11
Yep they planned ahead, pre 2001.



A 2000 exercise at the Pentagon to train people in the event of an accidental crash. The Pentagon is very near the flight path of Reagan National.



A list of exercises (some annual or semi-annual) that were scheduled to take place around 9/11. The military exercises listed were not related to terrorism at all.



Mentioned in the previous link. I couldn't get the link to work but Global Guardian is mentioned here.

Nothing to due with terrorism. This is a yearly exercise.




The link you provided does a pretty good job of debunking the link between this drill and 9/11. NRO is located very near Dulles International Airport.
Your previous link did a better job explaining this.

FEMA observed a NY OEM exercise related to bioterrorism. FEMA was in New York City before 9/11 though. Way before. The FEMA Region II office is in NYC.

 

Grieves

Senior Member
Except now you are moving the goal posts. The original claim was that "the FBI stages terror attacks"- to which you claimed is was "an acknowledged fact". That is simply not accurate.

You now want to expand the scope of discussion to "terrorism"...which is understandable..and indeed you have a point.

But it doesn't change the fact that the original claim is false. None of the sting operations set up by the FBI resulted in an actual "attack".
Sure they did. The FBI very actively and physically orchestrated terrorist attacks. The attacks were simply 'thwarted', and never involved real tangible danger of wide-scale physical harm. These are instances in which the FBI orchestrated and encouraged a 'terrorist attack', in order to 'foil' it and influence public opinion. That the danger was never real is besides the point. These are instances in which the FBI used the threat of violence to influence political opinions, which is terrorism by the book, isn't it?
I just related to his statement, in that the arguing around this event alternately frustrates, aggravates, and bores me, and so gave my opinion of the statement's meaning as one who feels the same.
But you're right, he can speak for himself if he thinks it worth clarifying, it seemed straight-forward to me though. It was your twisting of the statement to mean something it didn't that concerned me.
I didn't twist his statement in the slightest, I took it at face-value. You're just giving him the benefit of the doubt, which is fine, but involves more 'twisting' than I've done.




I don't know if this is what you're looking for (I suspect it wont be no matter what anyway) but here is a list of Fema drills I found on above top secret

http://www.emd.wa.gov/plans/documents/ExercisesandEventsCalendar-2009.pdf
That's helpful, yeah, though in truth I was looking for something prior to September 2001, as the pre and post 9/11 climates where military/emergency response drills are concerned will almost certainly be incredibly different.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Sorry, I don't feel that giving someone a 'dummy' bomb, when they want to blow up something is "actively and physically orchestrated terrorist attacks". No more than having an agent enter a teen chat room and pretend to be a 15 yr old girl, is encouraging or planning pedophilia .
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Sure they did. The FBI very actively and physically orchestrated terrorist attacks. The attacks were simply 'thwarted', and never involved real tangible danger of wide-scale physical harm. These are instances in which the FBI orchestrated and encouraged a 'terrorist attack', in order to 'foil' it and influence public opinion. That the danger was never real is besides the point. These are instances in which the FBI used the threat of violence to influence political opinions, which is terrorism by the book, isn't it?
Incorrect.

NO terror attacks were staged.

If you want to play semantics then call it for what they were - FAKE. The Fake terror attacks were not simply "thwarted"- they were never going to happen in the first place. "staged" means to "organize and carry out"

Clearly, these fake events were never carried out.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Sorry, I don't feel that giving someone a 'dummy' bomb, when they want to blow up something is "actively and physically orchestrated terrorist attacks". No more than having an agent enter a teen chat room and pretend to be a 15 yr old girl, is encouraging or planning pedophilia .
Then you didn't read the article, or research any of the cases mentioned. These wren't dudes with a plan to blow something up given dummy bombs, these 'attacks' were, from the PLANNING stage, orchestrated by FBI agents. These weren't FBI agents sitting in an AlQueda chat-room under the moniker 'OBL<34U' waiting for terrorists to message them and say "Hey, I've got a bomb plot, wanna get on it...?!" This was the FBI seeking out people with terrorist sympathies and organizing/supplying/encouraging/transporting them in an effort to carry out attacks on targets which the FBI itself selected.

Incorrect.

NO terror attacks were staged.

If you want to play semantics then call it for what they were - FAKE. The Fake terror attacks were not simply "thwarted"- they were never going to happen in the first place. "staged" means to "organize and carry out"

Clearly, these fake events were never carried out.
You keep completely dismissing the crucial point. When these fake terrorist attacks were thwarted, the American people were told that real and potentially deadly terrorist threats had existed, and could have been carried out without the protection of the FBI. The FBI orchestrated a threat of violence themselves in order to politically manipulate the American people. The use of threats and violence to manipulate public political opinion is the definition of a terrorist act.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
You keep completely dismissing the crucial point. When these fake terrorist attacks were thwarted, the American people were told that real and potentially deadly terrorist threats had existed, and could have been carried out without the protection of the FBI. The FBI orchestrated a threat of violence themselves in order to politically manipulate the American people. The use of threats and violence to manipulate public political opinion is the definition of a terrorist act.
No. I am not.

The original claim was the "FBI staged terror attacks". No attacks were carried out...thus no attacks were "staged".

Its really quite simple.

"staged"; To arrange and carry out: stage an invasion.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
No. I am not.

The original claim was the "FBI staged terror attacks". No attacks were carried out...thus no attacks were "staged".

Its really quite simple.

"staged"; To arrange and carry out: stage an invasion.
So your argument here boils down to your personal interpretation of the usage of the word 'staged'? Well....
staged
[steyjd] stage.
2.
contrived for a desired impression: It was a staged, rather than spontaneous, demonstration of affection.
3.
occurring or planned to occur in stages: a staged increase in wages.
emphasis added in the hopes of putting semantics soundly behind us.


Evidence please?
The FBI has admitted to what we're discussing Cairenn. Look to the article linked a few posts back.
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
So your argument here boils down to your personal interpretation of the usage of the word 'staged'? Well.....
If only-...your definitions do not really fit the reality of the events.

The initial claim was that the "FBI staged attacks"- no attacks were staged, no attacks took place, and the FBI never even planned ANY "attacks".

They did facilitate- to varying degrees fake- attacks (although they were not fake to the supposed perpetrators).

The initial claim was bunk. To me "staging" an attack means to carry it out. Thats how I read the initial claim.

That you want to twist the truth to ascribe political motivations to the FBI and accuse them of terrorism "acts" is because knowing that some people could be persuaded to cause violence might cause others fear is a bit of a stretch...but I am not completely opposed to the conclusion.
 
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Grieves

Senior Member
If only-...your definitions do not really fit the reality of the events.

The initial claim was that the "FBI staged attacks"- no attacks were staged, no attacks took place, and the FBI never even planned ANY "attacks".

They did facilitate- to varying degrees fake- attacks (although they were not fake to the supposed perpetrators).

The initial claim was bunk. To me "staging" an attack means to carry it out. Thats how I read the initial claim.
So, to repeat myself, your argument here boils down to the semantics of the term 'staged', and how you personally choose to read the word. You seem to feel the usage requires an actual explosion/injuries/deaths. Please view the dictionary definition provided above, and it should dissuade you of this notion. Orchestrating, encouraging, providing materials, scheduling of, and transport for a terrorist attack is a process carried out in planned stages. A contrived terrorist attack meant to entrap someone with jihadist leanings is a staged event. The term fits on several levels.


That you want to twist the truth to ascribe political motivations to the FBI and accuse them of terrorism "acts" is because knowing that some people could be persuaded to cause violence might cause others fear is a bit of a stretch...but I am not completely opposed to the conclusion.
I don't think I'm doing that much twisting at all. The FBI orchestrated, supported, funded, and facilitated dummy terrorist attacks. The mislead patsies carrying these attacks out aside, the American People were not immediately informed there was no real threat. The exact opposite in fact is true: the American people were told these were real threats to their safety. In a Country where the deaths of 3000 people to a terrorist attack remains a salted wound of the subconscious, what else but fear, uncertainty, and compliance with growing authority could result of all these reported terrorists eagerly hatching plots in our midst? What cause would they have to make these contrivances public as threats, other than to inspire fear, uncertainty, and an environment conducive to growing authority? And is the definition of terrorism not the use of violence/the threat of violence to inspire fear and sway opinion?
 
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