Debunked: NASA War Document Exposed (The Future is Now)

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MikeC said:
Last I heard Aeronautics and nuclear engineering wasn't actually civil engineering, and neither is an "explosives technician" en expert on demolition - or buildings, or anything else except handling explosives.

Would you like to summarise what they actually say now that we've gotten past the appeals to authority?

also of course this should probably be shifted to the 9/11 forum and off this thread.....
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How about you f[...].
 
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Ah - the old "I cant' stand the pressure so I'm going to act like a baby and swear at you until you go away" routine.

I didn't remove your posts - they are still right there for people to view.

why wouldn't you want people to know the truth about your "experts"? what are you trying to hide?

Robert McCoy - architect....yet another non-expert on explosives and demolitions saying what he thinks happened without any actual evidence at all.
 
steve frey said:
Well if it isn't Mick West, the same Mick West of Morgellons Watch no doubt, well Mick we know we can't believe anything you say because it's your job to discredit and debunk the facts and evidence because your a [...]. So what do you have to say about the scientists now publishing peer reviewed studies on morgellons, huh Mick what do you have to say? I see this document as a road map to the complete takeover of the U.S. and the powers that be have been following it to the letter, take it serious folks, it is real and it is happening right now.

Oh and forgive me for not being POLITE, I'll try harder next time, Not.


[edit: politeness]
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Have you evidence that this is happening now, especially given this document is 12 years old times a ticking to keep on schedule.
 
Well let's look at your list of 'experts'

External Quote:
Steven Earl Jones is an American physicist. For the majority of his career, Jones was known primarily to other scientists for his work on muon-catalyzed fusion.
And the physicist that 'found thermite dust'

External Quote:
Those of you who have been following this blog for a while have probably noticed that I have a hobby of following the Full Members of ST911 (yes, I know, I should collect stamps or something). Originally in May, I brought up the issue that Jeffrey Farrer was listed as a Full Member, even though he was a lab manager, and not a professor. Then in August, after Judy Wood complained to Jim Fetzer, he was demoted to a Student Member. A week or two later, after Judy Wood left he was then promoted to Jeffrey Farrer PhD, a Full Member.

Now only a few weeks later he has quit the organization entirely.

Farrer, who manages BYU's Transmission Electron Microscopy Laboratory, sent an e-mail asking the group to remove his name from the Web site on Sept. 7, hours before BYU administrators informed Jones they were placing him on paid leave. Farrer had grown increasingly uncomfortable with the content of scholarsfor911truth.org. He was disturbed that it appeared to have a political viewpoint, though he said he would continue to work with the group.


"If it's a scholarly Web site, I don't think they should have a political viewpoint," Farrer said. "I thought there was too much finger-pointing and maybe a little too much speculation that wasn't based on confirmable evidence."
Not an expert in any field related to explosives

Lynn Margulis field is that of evolutionary biology, Not an expert in any related field

External Quote:
AIDS/HIV theory

In 2009 Margulis co-authored with seven others a paper stating "Detailed research that correlates life histories of symbiotic spirochetes to changes in the immune system of associated vertebrates is sorely needed" and urging the "reinvestigation of the natural history of mammalian, tick-borne, and venereal transmission of spirochetes in relation to impairment of the human immune system."[9] Margulis later argued that "there's no evidence that HIV is an infectious virus" and that AIDS symptoms "overlap ... completely" with those of syphilis.[10] Seth Kalichman cited her 2009 paper as an example of AIDS denialism "flourishing",[11] and argued that her "endorsement of HIV/AIDS denialism defies understanding.
External Quote:
Robert M. Bowman (born 1934) is a former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force in the Ford and Carter administrations, and a former United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions. He holds a Ph.D. in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from the California Institute of Technology
Not an expert in any related field

There are tens of thousands of architects and structural engineers and your 'expert' list doesn't even have a handful of them. found this

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/who-are-scholars-for-911-truth.html

External Quote:
EXPERTS CLAIM OFFICIAL 9/11 STORY IS A HOAX

Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an international consortium.

Duluth, MN (PRWEB)
January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts and scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen, John McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what really happened on 9/11.


Their most famous member, and co-founder, is Steven Jones, a physicist at Brigham Young University. He has become famous for publishing a paper on the WTC collapse. Thus far this paper though, has only been reviewed, not in a journal on physics, or structural engineering, but in a Marxist journal of political economy. BYU itself has rejected his work. Dr. Jones primary research has been, not in structural engineering or the reaction of metals to heat, but in cold fusion, which even in the physics community is regarded as bordering on alchemy. Even more bizarrely, his other famous published work was one right out of the World Weekly News, claiming that Jesus visited Central America based on ancient Indian artwork.

So maybe the "scholars" have other "experts" from whom Dr. Jones (Indiana?) is relying on, so I decided to look over their list of "full members" described here as:


Currently, S9/11T has four categories of members: full members (FM), who have or have had academic appointments or the equivalent;

I compiled the list of members and categorized them by specialty, position and institution, which actually was rather difficult. Oddly enough many of the members don't list their qualifications or university, which is quite strange, since every professor I have ever met is more than happy to go on for hours about their academic credentials.

I came up with a list of 76 members, expecting it to be full of Ivy League engineers and distinguished Middle Eastern scholars, experts bent on proving that the US government, and not Osama bin Laden attacked the World Trade Centers. I was wrong.

Out of the 76 "experts" the most common academic discipline was philosophy, with 9 members, including a co-founder. Since 7 members did not even list an academic discipline, this was 1/7 of their credentialed membership. English/literature and psychology came in next with 5 members each. Even theology and "humanities" came in with 4 and 3 members respectively. Among actual scientific fields, physics was way in front, with 5 members, including the aforementioned Dr. Jones. I am not sure as to their academic credentials though, at least one of the "physicists", Jeffrey Farrer, isn't even a professor, he is a lab manager at BYU. One has to wonder whether Steven Jones' janitor is also listed as an associate member?

So how many engineers do they have? Out of the 76, a grand total of 2. Jean-Pierre Petit, a French aeronautical engineer, who despite the obvious handicap of being French actually seems to have a relevant qualification. Curiously enough though, he doesn't seem to have written a single word on 9/11. He has written though, on a mysterious plot by the US military to bomb Jupiter with anti-matter weapons!

The second engineer is Judy Wood, who has been mentioned in the comments here for her bizarre billiard ball from the top of the World Trade Center theory. OK, Ms. Wood is an actual Mechanical Engineer at Clemson, but thus far her work has been primarily focused on the stresses of dentistry. A fascinating field no doubt, but hardly relevant to planes crashing into buildings.

So how many structural engineers are listed? Absolutely zero.

One of the HUGE problems I have with the 'truthers' is their willingness to discard the research and studies and opinions of REAL experts and then they trot out folks from other fields as experts
 
steve frey said:
Okay, I'm interested in seeing how you debunk the recorded opinion of world renowned demolitions expert Danny Jowenko, who conviently died in a single car collision with a tree just three days after this video was made, hmmm that sounds eerily familiar, oh yeah just like Micheal Hastings, what a coincidence.

Controlled Demolition Expert Danny Jowenko



Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie
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Is there any way you can produce something OTHER than YouTube videos? I find them time-consuming to watch, I can read a transcript so much faster.

Oh wow, TWO people died in collisions? THAT ever happens. Come on, how did the powers that be orchestrate a car crashing into a tree? I am extremely curious to hear the answer to this, Steve. Seriously. How is this NOT a coincidence?
 
steve frey said:
Im not doing this for your benefit Mike, or for Caireen, or for Rafterman, I'm posting for those who want the truth.
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IOW you are doing this for people who will just take your word and your links as gospel and not ask any questions. By the way, telling us to blow you violates the politeness policy. None of us talk like that how about you take a chill pill.
 
steve frey said:
Okay, I'm interested in seeing how you debunk the recorded opinion of world renowned demolitions expert Danny Jowenko, who conviently died in a single car collision with a tree just three days after this video was made, hmmm that sounds eerily familiar, oh yeah just like Micheal Hastings, what a coincidence.

Controlled Demolition Expert Danny Jowenko



Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie
Click to expand...



Could you please address the fact that in that very same interview Mr. Jowenko specifically says WTC 1&2 did NOT look like a controlled demolition and couldn't have been a controlled demolition?

How do you reconcile that?
 
MikeC said:
"The expert" is Dennis P. McMahon - lawyer, and self appointed "debunker of debunkers".
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I'm sure you meant to be more accurate and say: '...lawyer and self appointed debunker of self appointed debunkers'

Not quite sure why he is rated as an expert in building collapses by anyone.
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I can't quite determine where the link is for this guy so I don't know what he actually said but isn't it the job of a lawyer to make a legal argument by evaluating the best evidence from different disciplines? They do not have to be experts in the field in which they argue.
 
Cairenn said:
Oxy, a person's religion is not a subject of debunking.
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Cairenn, I wouldn't dream of it other than the fact you keep bringing it up yourself. Now it is either up for discussion or it isn't. If it isn't, it doesn't seem right that you keep bringing it up as some sort of 'authority badge' or accreditation. Does that seem fair?
 
I asked a question of someone. Many folks are confused about many Wiccan/Pagan/Heathen beliefs. I can often clear those up.

But instead I get an attack from you on my beliefs. An attack that if I had made it to say Joe, would have gotten me an infraction.
 
Here you go, proof that you're the crazy ones.

New US/UK Study Shocks World! "Conspiracy Theorists" Are 'Sane'; Government Dupes Crazy & Hostile!


In short, the new study by Wood and Douglas suggests that the negative stereotype of the conspiracy theorist - a hostile fanatic wedded to the truth of his own fringe theory - accurately describes the people who defend the official account of 9/11, not those who dispute it.
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Psychologist Laurie Manwell of the University of Guelph agrees that the CIA-designed "conspiracy theory" label impedes cognitive function. She points out, in an article published inAmerican Behavioral Scientist (2010), that anti-conspiracy people are unable to think clearly about such apparent state crimes against democracy as 9/11 due to their inability to process information that conflicts with pre-existing belief.
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http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/12/313399/conspiracy-theorists-vs-govt-dupes/
 
Cairenn said:
I asked a question of someone. Many folks are confused about many Wiccan/Pagan/Heathen beliefs. I can often clear those up.

But instead I get an attack from you on my beliefs. An attack that if I had made it to say Joe, would have gotten me an infraction.
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Steve Frey asked Mick if he was a satanist and you jumped straight in with 'I'm a wiccan will that do?' or some suchlike.

If you are so shy about it, why keep bringing it up?

It doesn't compute that when you say you 'are happy to clear things up for folks who are confused' and yet when I ask about it, I am accused of 'attacking you'.

It wasn't an attack on you at all anyway, I am simply finding it difficult to understand how someone can profess to being a wiccan, with all that entails) and yet refute anything that has no mainstream scientific approval eg does not sit with Darwinian Evolution etc.
 
steve frey said:
Here you go jerkoffs, proof that you're the crazy ones.

New US/UK Study Shocks World! "Conspiracy Theorists" Are 'Sane'; Government Dupes Crazy & Hostile!
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/12/313399/conspiracy-theorists-vs-govt-dupes/
Click to expand...

Yep there is already a thread on it. The politeness policy is in force to raise discussion above name calling. It means that people with different viewpoints can interact and learn from each other or about each others viewpoint. People who post reasoned, reasonable and polite argument, (or at least make the effort), are likely to make more of an impact than those who don't. I say this with the best will in the world Steve and suggest it is worth considering.
 
Oxymoron said:
Yep there is already a thread on it. The politeness policy is in force to raise discussion above name calling. It means that people with different viewpoints can interact and learn from each other or about each others viewpoint. People who post reasoned, reasonable and polite argument, (or at least make the effort), are likely to make more of an impact than those who don't. I say this with the best will in the world Steve and suggest it is worth considering.
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Your absolutely correct, I fixed it, I am one of those that is deeply passionate about this issue because so much rides on it and sometimes emotion gets the better of me.
 
Cairenn said:
What or who is Common Purchase?

I would suggest that you read the study, before it was put through the filter of a well known, conspiracy theorist.

http://www.frontiersin.org/personal...differences/10.3389/fpsyg.2013.00409/abstract
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I'm done here guys, the study suggests that less and less people are interested in what you debunkers have to say which means sites like this will get less traffic which means fewer people here looking for the truth. My goal is to help people find the truth so my time is better spent elsewhere.

Common Purpose = Nazi = NWO = Illuminati = Satan = perpetrators of Kennedy assisinations, 9-11, Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, and on and on.

In High Command - George HW Bush
 
Okay, good luck on your truth-filled journey. Watch out for guys in hoods chanting arcane syllables.

(also the study* you're endorsing says that debunkers and skeptics are irrational and hostile compared to ct proponents. Which behaviour have you demonstrated on this thread?)
*correction - the re-interpretation of the original study
 
Pete Tar said:
Okay, good luck on your truth-filled journey. Watch out for guys in hoods chanting arcane syllables.

(also the study you're endorsing says that debunkers and skeptics are irrational and hostile compared to ct proponents. Which behaviour have you demonstrated on this thread?)
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I don't think he is off to Bohemian Grove Pete. :)
 
Steve didn't seem to want to have a discussion, he seemed primed to attack more.

It would be a little hard for a TEXAN to be part of a UK group. I had never heard of them.

Steve you are not being reasonable. You have a 'religion' that is conspiracy theories and you are a fundamentalist on it.
 
A few points on this thread.

For all his faults, Steve remained mostly polite and when he responded to some serious questions, nobody answered him. Steve made a long reasoned post where addressed the question of who, how, etc and then made a question, which was ignored. Poor form.

I liked Carien's analysis of the 'experts'; very well done. Rigorous.

Also in regards to 'mainstream scientific approval ... Darwinian Evolution' - surely both of these things have nothing to do with anything? In the search for truth one uses the scientific method, as espoused by Mill. Evolution is merely a theory that has not yet been proven wrong, the theory that most fits the 'facts' of the world, i.e. what we can sense ourselves or otherwise. Of course, this leaves room for a lot of speculation, and there will always be people that consider themselves somehow more blessed with an ability to discern (create) the truth than anyone else.

CT theorists seem to have passed the bridge of the bell curve, sadly however, not far enough. However you try to spin it, a short tour of CT videos reveals people that have screws loose in varying number and extent, lone crackpots shunned by academia desperately believing, pathetically serious and pleased when the light of the video camera shines on them. Maybe I'm being a little harsh here.

Ah, and has anyone come across this website before? http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/
I've just stumbled across it, and think that beneath the patina of nwo illuminati nonsense (maybe it's just flavour?) there might be some serious truths there. don't hold me to it though, just stumbled across it while indulging in some light entertainment/researching nibirunia.

And one thing that's been bugging me. Bill Hicks. Kennedy assassination. Have people satisfactorily debunked that?
I'm a sceptic, however, within the reams of nonsensical gibberish there will be occasional truths. Like infinite monkeys, infinite typewriters, shakespeare.
Also, some kind of weird, smooth crafted circular device thing from ancient egypt. searched on google but couldn't find it. I remember it from the same vid about the helicopter and also with I think the same ridiculous woman from the NASA war doc video.
I won't believe heiroglyph shapes of helicopters etc, but an actual artifact ... debunking needed, please.

Regards.
 
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Please start new threads for new topics. One topic per thread, thanks.

Steve's points were mostly not answered because they were an off-topic "Gish Gallop". One thing a time will get much higher quality answers.
 
Joe said:
seems a little out there even for me , the document kinda looks fraudulent IMO . Makes for a good sci fi movie , Probably the alien shape shifters have taken over our government and need to exterminate us humans so they can populate our planet since they destroyed their planet and need a warmer earth since they are really lizard people ? :)
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I just saw this video being posted by one of my very conservative friends. The thing is I just read a book called, "the next 100 years," which also does and highlights some of the same stuff. Albeit in a more socioeconomic type of way. The way conservatives and conspiracy theorists are reacting to this, makes me wonder if this is how they react to every technological advancement...

On a different note, how the heck did this thread turn into a 9-11 conspiracy theory interrogation? With only one or two posts about the actual video someone asked to debunk. I am sure there are 9-11 CT threads that one can find. Are people too lazy to search?
 
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Chuck said:
Today, I received the following video in an email. The sender was almost apoplectic. Doing a quick search "NASA War Documents Exposed", a boatload of conspiracy sites popped up with the below video. Seems to be fairly new "revelation". http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2013/06/pre-911-war-on-america-plan-exposed-2526158.html At the www.beforeitsnews.com site, I found the following:

External Quote:
"This is the Bilderberg and illuminati's war plan to usher in the New World Order and their Agenda 21 plan. This NASA Document needs to go viral. Declaration of war on the people of the United States and the rest of the world."


Anyone have any knowledge about these claims? They sound completely preposterous but I'd like to have something concrete to rebut this stuff. It's all about hyper weapons that supposedly the U.S. govt is planning to use on it's own people. Unless she's a academy award winning actor, the lady who has this document appears to believe every word of it.

At www.usahitman.com is the following regarding this new revelation.

External Quote:
"Below is some very interesting information via document and video. Now the interview was done last week sometime but still has some very interesting points and theories which connect the dots to chemtrails, gmos, smart meters and more.. The below document was deleted off the NASA website awhile back but it provides a look into the future of warfare. Which will be used against the citizens of this country during martial law."
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The fact that the video links to a Facebook page called, "alien disclosure". Should be reason enough to dismiss this thing! Know this. Anytime some random YouTube video pops up on the internet and it links to some dude's facebook page...Marketing scheme!!!!

I've seen the same thing when the CT's were going around with the Boston Bomber CT's and how this was a false flag for Martial Law. There was a video on Youtube that claimed Boston was under Martial Law, actually probably quite a few, and they all linked to a facebook page called, Police State USA or something similar.
 
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