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  1. Chuck

    Chuck Member

    Today, I received the following video in an email. The sender was almost apoplectic. Doing a quick search "NASA War Documents Exposed", a boatload of conspiracy sites popped up with the below video. Seems to be fairly new "revelation". http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2013/06/pre-911-war-on-america-plan-exposed-2526158.html At the www.beforeitsnews.com site, I found the following:





    Anyone have any knowledge about these claims? They sound completely preposterous but I'd like to have something concrete to rebut this stuff. It's all about hyper weapons that supposedly the U.S. govt is planning to use on it's own people. Unless she's a academy award winning actor, the lady who has this document appears to believe every word of it.

    At www.usahitman.com is the following regarding this new revelation.

  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member


    Here's a copyable copy (113 pages):
    View attachment future-strategic-issues-and-warfare.pdf

    And a condensed version (48 pages)
    View attachment FutureWarfare.pdf

    Which gives background:



    All it is is speculation about what the future of warfare MIGHT be like, so that that the military can think about what they might want to do. There's no plan in there. It's all just speculation.

    Here's a similar thing that Bushnell did for the navy.

    http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_10/bushnell_shape.html

    And again, it's 12 years old!
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Joe

    Joe Active Member

    seems a little out there even for me , the document kinda looks fraudulent IMO . Makes for a good sci fi movie , Probably the alien shape shifters have taken over our government and need to exterminate us humans so they can populate our planet since they destroyed their planet and need a warmer earth since they are really lizard people ? :)
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The document is real, it's a real NASA document made for the military. But it's not secret. And it does not contain anything like what she thinks it does. She's just not understanding it.

    The phrase "Enemy After Next", is a ggod key phrase for this kind of thing. Search for it, and you will many similar books and documents.

    just .mil sites:
    https://www.google.com/search?q="enemy+after+next"+site%3A.mil

    Related papers:
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="enemy after next"

    It's nothing new, and it's not a plan.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    Well if it isn't Mick West, the same Mick West of Morgellons Watch no doubt, well Mick we know we can't believe anything you say because it's your job to discredit and debunk the facts and evidence because your a [...]. So what do you have to say about the scientists now publishing peer reviewed studies on morgellons, huh Mick what do you have to say? I see this document as a road map to the complete takeover of the U.S. and the powers that be have been following it to the letter, take it serious folks, it is real and it is happening right now.

    Oh and forgive me for not being POLITE, I'll try harder next time, Not.


    [edit: politeness]
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    Aww c'mon, and you couldn't even give us a link or a quote of the summary?
    Don't be a tease now.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

  8. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    He ridiculed and made fun of people? I find that hard to believe.
    Do you just mean he argued that what they thought, was not actually what they thought?
    Is that necessarily ridiculing and 'making fun'?

    Edit (this deserves a new thread, unless it's related to NASA somehow)
  9. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

  10. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    Regarding this document, read through it people, very closely, and you will find that a great deal of this stuff is playing out, for instance the document references
    Venezuelan Equine Encephalomyelitis

    lists relevant factors like "tested on humans", "no treatment available" and what do you know just this year there's an outbreak of this virus
    http://edition.channel5belize.com/archives/82104
    The powers that be are using this document in some capacity, it's obvious.
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Steve, I don't ridicule people with Morgellons. In fact a large part of my writing on the subject has been to encourage people NOT to ridicule them. I think it's very important to treat any ill person with great respect. I also think their needs are best served by working with their doctors to address their symptoms on an individual basis. Morgellons is essentially a broad list of symptoms that can be caused by many conditions.

    http://morgellonswatch.com/2007/06/26/morgellons-is-not-a-delusion/
  12. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    I'm not going to get into any debates with you Mick, about Morgellons or anything else because Information Warfare (IW) is your area of expertise, you get paid to do what you do. Interesting how this document references the use of IW under the heading Typical Scenario- "Take Down" of the U.S. by 10 people for <$10M. Even more interesting is the word usual in quotes. That implies that it is commonplace for our government to utilize this tactic on the citizens of the U.S., it's enemy. Your duties are as defined by Wikipedia , "the spreading of propaganda or disinformation to demoralize or manipulate". I have no doubt that you are operating in this capacity Mick, what I don't know, and surely never will, is how deeply your connected to this megaconspiracy. I'm sure you'll be all over my use of this term but it is what it is, a conspiracy invoving the Bildeberg group, the world banks, the CIA, the Trilateral Commision, current and former presidents, and no telling how many other groups or agencies whose actions have all been orchestrated by the Illuminati, there you go Mick, have a hayday with that one. One question though, are you yourself a Satanist like the Illuminati?
  13. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Does anyone care to count how many questions Steve managed to beg in that one paragraph?

    Tell us Steve - do you believe everything you read, or just the more far out theories?

    From your link:



    There is no text reading "tested on humans" or "no treatment available" at that link.

    According to the wiki page on the disease the virus was isolated in 1938 - so it has been known since before then, and outbreaks occur fairly regularly.

    And there IS a vaccine available


    Can you explain any link to any conspiracy??
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Does being Wiccan count to you?
    • Like Like x 1
  15. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    Look, I really have no desire to waste my time by debating people that have agendas. I ended up here by chance while researching the document referenced in this thread and I found it VERY interesting that good old Mick West was at the helm. He was a very hated man within the morgellons community, there were people then accusing him of having an agenda, the intentional spreading of misinformation for whatever reason, I didn't buy into the conspiracy stuff back then, in fact I often ridiculed those that solicited it, I figured Mick was just a guy that, like myself, liked to argue his position and one that needed to come to his own conclusion after a review of all the facts. Finding Mick West at the helm of a site dedicated to “debunking” however is now making me reconsider his motive, why would a guy who made enough money to retire at an early age spend his free time in front of a computer accomplishing nothing by arguing with people he thinks are crazy? This just doesn’t make sense, unless of course he has an agenda.


    To all those regular people out there, those who don’t get paid to discredit the truth, I have this to say, the USA, as well as much of the rest of the world, is facing an extremely dangerous enemy that not only threatens our freedom but our very lives. This enemy is deeply embedded within our society as well as in other countries and is actively working towards complete world domination. For one to even have the ability to entertain this idea they have to allow their mind the freedom to think. If there’s any chance whatsoever that 9-11 was orchestrated by members of our government wouldn’t it be worth an hour of your time to see the evidence so that you can make an informed decision? I encourage everyone to rethink 9-11 by going to AE911truth and watching the free one hour version of "Experts Speak Out". This video is supported by nearly 2000 professional Architects, Engineers, and Demolition experts, the very people that design as well as destroy high rise buildings, just listen to what they have to say, what have you got to lose. The uncovering of this lie is so extremely important that everyone needs rethink 9-11, for the sake of humanity. I'm not going to waste time responding to anyone that hasn't watched the video so don't bother wasting your time trying to discredit me. If after watching the video you wish discuss the information contained in it I'll be happy to reply, after all these people are experts and unless you are an expert in the field of engineering, architecture, or demolition your opinion is not going to count for shit.
  16. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member


    That enemy is ignorance.
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Steve no one here is getting paid. Why are you attacking us instead of the research?

    You post false information and then refused to back it up, choosing instead to attack others.

    Until someone can explain answer these questions:

    1)WHO planted the explosives? Controlled demolition of a building is not something that an untrained (untrained in Controlled demolition) person can do. It would have needed a crew from one of the companies

    2)HOW did they get the type of access needed to plant hundreds of explosives?

    3)WHAT was used to protect the explosives from the fires and WHAT was used to detonate them?

    I see no reason to waste my time on listening or watching or reading about an impossible scenario. I prefer well written science fiction for that.

    Maybe you are impressed with that 2000 number, I'm not, there are hundreds of thousands of professional Engineers and architects. As to 'demolition experts' I don't know why they are considered, unless they are in the field of Controlled Demolition. Others are like asking your ophthalmologist for advice on heart transplant surgery. Not their field.

    I deal in FACTS not opinions, and not agendas.
  18. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Do you support falsehoods and disinformation being used to mislead people?

    What is your agenda that you think that removing bunk from misleading and potentially dangerous public information is senseless?
    • Like Like x 2
  19. steve frey

    steve frey New Member




    Common tactics you guys are using here, it’s obvious you didn’t watch the video, instead of discussing the material presented in this video you try to focus attention away from it. But you should have asked me something a little harder to answer.

    What I am presenting here is my own opinion and does not reflect the view of the organization that I have promoted on this site.

    Who Planted explosives, how did they get access, how were they protected from the fires, and how did they detonate them?

    Seriously? How did they protect them from fire? That’s a lame question, you could build a box in your garage capable of withstanding the hottest fire possible when considering the fuel available in those fires. Jet fuel, which is basically kerosene right, doesn’t burn very hot. Lightweight, fireproof boxes capable of withstanding those fires can be readily purchased.

    These boxes could have been pre-assembled with explosives and wireless detonators and labeled with directions for their placement. Personnel with no expertise in the field of explosives could have placed those boxes. The elevator shafts would be strategic points to place theme, this would have provided access to the primary support structure of the building and it would have facilitated and concealed their placement because they are out of view,.

    Who had daily, unrestricted access to the elevator shafts, the elevator mechanics.

    Why should the elevator mechanics be suspect?
    ,

    Even though the emergency plan that the Port Authority had in place at the WTC called for the elevator mechanics to stay and help with rescues by assisting police, fire, and other rescue personnel, all of the 80 elevator mechanics that were inside the World Trade Center on 9-11 left the buildings on their own, without instructions from police or fire officials, and did not return.


    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-04-elevator-usat_x.htm

    Now it’s my turn to ask the question, how did WTC 7 freefall for over a hundred feet meeting no resistance whatsoever (which is not disputed by the official story) if the structural failure began at an isolated point? The remainder of the structure would have had to of failed simultaniously or would have had to ceased to exist at that very moment of initial failure. This is a violation of the laws of physics. Yeah I bet you won’t even try to answer that one will you?

    No more games children, either address what is presented in the video or I'm not going to play anymore. This crap about you dealing in facts and not opinions is so transparent that it's pathetic, the facts are what your affraid of so all you have is your opinion.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    Just, lol'ing, awesome.
    • Like Like x 2
  21. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    That's the best you can do? Well your even more ignorant, there, your turn.
  22. steve frey

    steve frey New Member


    Just how much training do they give you guys before sending you out on your "debunking" missions, obviously not very much. Do they give you guys capes too? They probably got a logo with the word bunk and a red circle and a line through it, "no bunk", only punks fight bunk, "danger bunk ahead", "potentially dangerous public information" WTF, your kidding right?
  23. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    I'm pretty sure that's the very least they can do. Which is more than you deserve.
    Promise? Consider it un-addressed then.
    • Like Like x 2
  24. steve frey

    steve frey New Member



    Yeah of course you want me to go away because you know you can't debunk the facts.

    Listen to the experts talk about 9-11

    not these clowns
  25. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    Facts by definition aren't bunk or debunkable.
    But no, it's just because you're rude and unpleasant.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Says another graduate of YouTube University.


    Promises, promises.
  27. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member



    You mean "you're"?
  28. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member



    Mike asked you: Do you support falsehoods and disinformation being used to mislead people?

    What is your agenda that you think that removing bunk from misleading and potentially dangerous public information is senseless?

    Do you think you can answer him? What are you here for?
    • Like Like x 2
  29. Rafterman

    Rafterman New Member

    Steve, what about the other several million architects and engineers around the world who don't agree with your 2,000?
    • Like Like x 1
  30. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    Is
    Is that so, show me that list of experts that doesn't agree with those that signed the petition, so far every Architect and Engineerthat sees the evidence signs the petition.
  31. Rafterman

    Rafterman New Member

    And how do you know that? Certainly by now pretty much every architect and engineer has had an opportunity to at least read the petition and only 2,000 signatures. Interesting.

    Have you been to an AIA convention and watched how they were laughed at and ignored? I have.

    Have you worked in the top two architecture schools in the United States and spent untold hours talking with architects about 9/11? I have.

    Did you watch 9/11 unfold less than 15 blocks away in the offices of one of the top US architects? I did.

    Do you currently work in one of the top technological universities in the world and spend your day talking with scientists and engineers? I do.

    I'd be happy to walk down the hall with the petition and see how many science and engineering professors I could get to sign it - including at least one Noble Prize winner in physics.
    • Like Like x 2
  32. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Steve, if anyone was paying be to debunk, I wouldn't be sitting in Dallas with a wet towel over my shoulders, because it is over 100 degrees and I can't afford AC. I am an artist with a science background.
    I would also have a computer and a fast internet. With my computer, a 5 min YT will take me 8-10 to watch. If you want to PAY me for 2 hrs of my time. I would bill you at my middle rate--$24 a hour (the economy killed the art jewelry market).

    Your answers to my questions show that you seemed to spent all your time listening to other 'believers', instead of going out and finding out what it takes to implode a building.

    I have done that, not from government sites but from the companies that do it, from sites that post science and not bunk.

    I have 2 things for you to read, they might take a total of 10-15 min to read.

    http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC STUDY 8-06 w clarif as of 9-8-06 .pdf

    http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/#feature

    I would be willing to discuss why you feel that they are incorrect.
    • Like Like x 1
  33. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    • Funny Funny x 1
  34. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Why don't you pick out a couple of their points for us. None of us make a living doing this.

    Let's start with this. Who are the experts?
  35. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    "The expert" is Dennis P. McMahon - lawyer, and self appointed "debunker of debunkers".

    Not quite sure why he is rated as an expert in building collapses by anyone.
  36. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    Okay, I'm interested in seeing how you debunk the recorded opinion of world renowned demolitions expert Danny Jowenko, who conviently died in a single car collision with a tree just three days after this video was made, hmmm that sounds eerily familiar, oh yeah just like Micheal Hastings, what a coincidence.

    Controlled Demolition Expert Danny Jowenko



    Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie
  37. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    He never did offer any actual evidence (other than his opinion) - which amounts to " the collapse was from the bottom up, just like I would have done a demolition".

    and while it is true you would do a demolition like this, it does not mean a building cannot collapse like that without demolition - a conclusions reached by "the official story", which found the collapse started on floor 13.
  38. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    Or how about explosives loader Tom Sullivan

  39. steve frey

    steve frey New Member

    How about Dr Robert Bowman, Lt Col U.S. Airforce Ret with 3 Degrees in Engineering

  40. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Last I heard Aeronautics and nuclear engineering wasn't actually civil engineering, and neither is an "explosives technician" en expert on demolition - or buildings, or anything else except handling explosives.

    Would you like to summarise what they actually say now that we've gotten past the appeals to authority?

    BTW Bob Bowman is considered a US Govt "psyop agent" by some conspiracy theorists - eg see here - http://beforeitsnews.com/9-11-and-ground-zero/2013/01/dr-robert-m-bowman-is-no-patriot-2439462.html or http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=367&Itemid=60 for someone lambasting him for lacking "empirical evidence" after having him speak at a couple of events.

    also of course this should probably be shifted to the 9/11 forum and off this thread.....
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