Debunked: Alex Jones

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Oxymoron

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I think you have overstretched Clock. That is a lot of work you put in but it is too diverse and lacks focus, i.e.

Here we go:

1. Mao Zedong said “political power grows out the barrel of a gun.” –True.

Alright, we’re off to a good start here, maybe Jones’ arguments are going to have a nice, solid base. From Chapter 6 of ‘On Guerilla Warfare,’ in which Zedong explains that military action is necessary to attain political action.

2. Mao Zedong killed 80 million people because he had all of the guns. –Mostly false, but partially true.

Zedong is believed to have killed close to 77 million people in China’s genocide and mass murder, but that includes deaths as a result of his policies as leader of China, including famine upon his people due to his hunger for more international power. So to claim that the deaths are SOLELY due to gun control is pretty farfetched, but I’ll give him partial credit.
SOURCE , SOURCE#2

I think you are getting lost in pedantics such as 'oh that's false it wasn't 80 million, it was only 77 million. Well you can counter, 'So what u saying is 3 million people are not significant?'. No I am not but in the scheme of things, Alex is in the right ball park and it makes no difference to his argument whether it was 80 or 77 million people who died as a result of Mao's policies. Even if it was 'only' a million, the case would still stand.

It is great you put the source but would be much better if you copy pasted in the quote so people can see what they are looking for, especially where he is alleged to say the deaths are SOLELY due to gun control.

Please take this critique the way it is intended... as helpful advice and encouragement.
 

mynym

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Thanks for the corrections, mynym, I was actually hoping someone would do this- this was in my first days as a debunker, I guess you can say I was still 'learning the craft' (I still am, mind you) and writing big posts like these were still a foreign to me. I was surprised how well received it was; people on skeptic project thought I did a good job, people on Metabunk thought I did a good job...

That's probably because it's generally fine. I could be wrong. But I like to think that I'm not.

Yes I'm aware of MKULTRA, but Alex Jones wasn't talking about that. He was talking about testing on foster children. To my knowledge, I don't think they've ever tested foster children to MKULTRA, (at least there aren't any reports on it)

I was thinking about sifting through all those documents to provide an example. Because as I recall, they're there. But perhaps I could just change the context or the theory in which the facts reside. The context I would put that in isn't as entertaining... but perhaps I could just restate it based on the fact that CPS and foster care is already "basically" tending toward experimenting on foster kids by giving them psychotropics to see how they react and so forth.

Jones tends to frame everything as an artifact of conscious forms of "elite" intelligence, so I'd have to go back and listen to however he incorporated the facts into his theories. But I don't really feel like listening to him, to be honest.

What I mean by NWO is the big bad mean theory in which a bunch of people want to take the entire world over, invade the people and throw them into FEMA camps and ruin the world.

There are numerous factions that do want to take over the world. That's not much of a secret, all one has to do is read their writings. Do they want to invade people? Actually, with respect to many in the military and various factions in empires that answer is yes. So they're often searching for a pretext for war. Examples could be cited. But maybe that's the main problem with Jones, he's often ultimately vague instead of specific with respect to his most significant claims. (Who are they? Bilderbergers and so forth, apparently. Ok. Exactly which members in the military industrial complex are with them? Who knows... but there are some "globalists" there somewhere. Etc.)

His vagueness is sort of like a Rorschach test, so people can see whatever they want to see in what he's saying once they get to his "central point" at the top of the pyramid. But it's worth mentioning many of the facts/dots that he's using as a conspiracy theorist "connecting the dots" are verifiable, although some have been falsified as well. What people usually really want to know is if the big picture of an "elite" is basically correct, though. Yet with Jones, the big picture is probably too vague to be verifiable.... what's a globalist? Or even a conspiracy? Sounds like a business or political meeting among people trying to incorporate themselves into international trade and therefore forming multinational/globalist corporations and so forth to me. No word yet on whether Tangy Tangerine or Alex Jones Inc. is going global. What are the standards for calling someone a globalist?

Anyway, there are still some areas where his "big picture" type thinking is strong and sometimes he even has the dots/facts that he's composing it out of correct. He needs to be a little more specific about exactly who and what he's talking about, seems to me. Although I guess he'd say that it's pretty much everyone moving toward being incorporated into the New World Order Inc.? So we're back to the fact that Jones himself is probably a "globalist" to the extent that he's penetrating international markets and so forth. And his business meetings? Well, it would be a conspiracy theory to speculate about them.
 
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mynym

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This is an article that I agree wholeheartedly with about Jones and his followers.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/dear-conspiracy-nuts-alex-jones-is-playing-you-for-fools/
“Mindless drones” of Alex Jones, that’s the best way to describe it I suppose. Conspiracy paranoia goes beyond a mild mental illness or a problem with intellectual maturity, it’s really a cult when you think about it.

The same things can be said of any big media personality or cult of personality in politics and so forth.

I would bet every last cent in my bank account that if tomorrow Alex Jones said that the end of the world was upon us and his followers should sell everything they own and head to the bunkers, they would do it without thinking.

Most of his listeners like to think of themselves as independent individuals, so that's unlikely.

But it's a demonstrable fact that if progressives told everyone to try to incorporate themselves in more of the banker's ponzi and "financial systems" so that the poor would supposedly have better healthcare, well. Or if leaders told progressives that civilization wouldn't survive unless they supported the eugenics movement, well. Etc. This is merely the nature of lemmings that applies to almost everyone and every movement. But it especially applies to progressives, given that they're easily trended based on the thinking that they're incorporated in a group that's creating linear progression. (No matter the actual facts of their history, etc.)

You see, Alex Jones isn’t a raving lunatic — he’s a very clever individual who realized there is a financial gold mine in peddling crazy conspiracy stories laced with a strong tinge of anti-Semitism.

With respect to pattern recognition and theories about conspiracy theories with no facts required, this guy could probably see a strong tinge of anti-Semitism in his cheerios each morning. Think about it... where are the facts he's basing his theories about Jones on? Are there any other than factual claims about followers that could be applied to anything from "ditto heads" to Obama's followers too? Has he even bothered to get beyond his perceptions to any type of documented facts or observable evidence with respect to Jones and his followers?

If you're going to go to the trouble of writing an article, at least include a few facts.

While Alex was still popping pimples in high school, there was David Icke who makes him seem almost normal. Alex Jones basically followed in his footsteps and surpassed him as the new leader of the conspiracy fringe.

Following in the footsteps:
Or not. So he's wrong on the facts.

He took the insane rants of David Icke and watered them down a little to be more palatable for a wider audience.. — which, of course, means more money in his pocket. You see, it all boils down to one thing: maximum audience which equals maximum revenue.

Sounds like the basic outlines of a conspiracy theory there, perhaps with more than a little explanatory power. That's an easy or basic theory though. It's the money. Genius. Or another conspiracy theory "tinged" with anti-Semitism? And there you go, his theories about Jones can all be falsified by the touch of a "tinge." Or not.

Apparently this guy doesn't actually know what he's talking about beyond perceptions rooted in his progressive worldview, given that he didn't bother to get all the facts upon which his theories are supposedly based correct. But you don't need to
 
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qed

Senior Member
Why is antisemitism a charge so readily thrown at skeptics?

Err... haven't you noticed that (almost) all white people are antisemitic, anti-eastern, anti-Muslim and anti-black (in increasing order of application).

Racism is so deeply ingrained.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
Under normal circumstances, it might be difficult to sell people non survival seeds, bunker gear, high end water filters and various other psuedo medicine and remedies. But you can do quite well if you can convince people that they need these things.

FWIW, Tangy Tangerine (a product that Alex Jones sells, and claims to have lost 37lbs by it's consumption.) contains lead, arsenic, and mercury which are all things that he regularly freaks out about, but apparently these substances are ok as long as they come from a product that he sells.

That man is all about the money.
 

Oxymoron

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Under normal circumstances, it might be difficult to sell people non survival seeds, bunker gear, high end water filters and various other psuedo medicine and remedies. But you can do quite well if you can convince people that they need these things.

FWIW, Tangy Tangerine (a product that Alex Jones sells, and claims to have lost 37lbs by it's consumption.) contains lead, arsenic, and mercury which are all things that he regularly freaks out about, but apparently these substances are ok as long as they come from a product that he sells.

That man is all about the money.
That's very interesting claim. What is your source?

According to this site, it is well under what would be expected and well under (800%), less than safe guidelines.

http://www.longevinst.org/nlt/heavymetals.html


Tangy Tangerine is sold from many outlets, so I do not understand why you would pick on AJ alone. Having said that, even if Tangy Tangerine was a scam, AJ could likely be an innocent victim of it, taken in by advertising and reviews such as:

http://www.livingstonparish.com/review-between-natraburst-tangy-tangerine.htm
Perhaps it would be better if you debunked Tangy Tangerine and then simply noted the fact that AJ subscribes to it, rather than portray him as a cognisant player in a scam.
 
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mynym

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Why is antisemitism a charge so readily thrown at skeptics?

Because it's a useful tool or bit of racial imagery when you don't have any facts. Read what he wrote again, what did he even say to supposedly "debunk" Jones beyond invoking "tinges" of racial imagery?

Not surprising to see a progressive using that technique against someone that they perceive as a threat to their political tribe/team, as from the eugenics movement on they keep on demonstrating that they're drawn to any form of pseudo scientific mishmash having to do with perceptions of "race." And European converts to Judaism supposedly being "semitic" is a prime example of that:
I'm curious, why do people want to debunk Alex Jones instead of focusing on a real power structure? Because it seems to me that even if he's on the rise these days, he's relatively powerless in comparison to American "exceptionalists" and Zionists... except when it comes to selling some Tangy Tangerine and so forth. They starve to death over 500,000 kids and say that the exceptional price in petrodollars was worth it, while PNAC begins planning for a New American Century in the background. But Jones sells some Tangy Tangerine and survival supplies... so he's the dangerous person probably representing dangerous factions of supremacists that therefore needs to be debunked?

500,000 kids dead due to starvation based on exceptional ideologies of supremacy "tinged" with Zionism and racism vs. scaring people based on a worldview that Jones built up and probably for the most part actually believes in.... while selling survival supplies.

I don't get it. You could sift through anyone's life to debunk them or aspects of what they've done and said. (E.g. the relationship between Jones and the "turd in the punch bowl" Icke vs. "ok, come on my show to entertain people with your icky lizard stuff now" stuff.) But why not "debunk" powerful people that have the power to kill hundreds of thousands of other people while looting the wealth of millions instead of focusing on people or entertainers that are relatively powerless?

Shrug. I guess Jones does say a lot of stuff that would seem to be easy to debunk.
 

Oxymoron

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Because it's a useful tool or bit of racial imagery when you don't have any facts. Read what he wrote again, what did he even say to supposedly "debunk" Jones beyond invoking "tinges" of racial imagery?

Look at you, all concise and no rambling. ;)

Bang on target... solid debunk upon solid debunk.

I can hardly believe the audacity when people allege AJ is anti semitic... as his wife is Jewish. :rolleyes:

My favourite was
And European converts to Judaism supposedly being "semitic" is a prime example of that:

When did a religion become a race?

 
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qed

Senior Member
Is Jewish a race or a religion?

For example, if I wanted to emigrate to Israel, can I convert religion, or must I change race?
 

Oxymoron

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Is Jewish a race or a religion?

For example, if I wanted to emigrate to Israel, can I convert religion, or must I change race?
If you become Jewish, (convert to Judaism, go through the rituals), you can go to Israel and become an Israeli.

Jews were all over the world, integrated into all societies. When Israel was formed, the call went out to all Jews to 'come home and support Israel' or 'send money to support Israel'. Consequently Israeli's come from all nationalities, European, Russian, Iranian, Syria... all over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5367892.stm
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/12/israel.iran
Iranian Jews were known to be the wealthiest and best educated of all the Jewish communities. They mostly chose to stay in Iran even after the Iranian revolution and up to around 2007, at which point many chose to leave and settle predominantly in Beverly Hills U.S

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.ne...he-persian-jewish-community-in-beverly-hills/
 
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qed

Senior Member
So no atheists can become Israeli?

For example, my parents are Jewish, but I become an atheist. Can I still emigrate?
 

Oxymoron

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So no atheists can become Israeli?

For example, my parents are Jewish, but I become an atheist. Can I still emigrate?
I think you could get Israeli citizenship as it is a secular Govt, much like you could get a U.S or U.K citizenship but to be 'an Israeli' in the 'spirit of the thing', I think you would need to be Jewish. After all, Israel was set up as a homeland for the Jewish people. Ergo, Israeli, has been a Nationality since Israel was formed.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
 

mynym

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Look at you, all concise and no rambling. ;)

Bang on target... solid debunk upon solid debunk.

I can hardly believe the audacity when people allege AJ is anti semitic... as his wife is Jewish. :rolleyes:

Not to mention that according to racists and actual anti Semites, he's part of a Jewish conspiracy for that reason.
Probably worth noting that if there was no Alex Jones or "Storm Clouds Gathering" as growing outlets for criticizing the oligarchs and bankers, then people might turn to the fascists in case of any collapse due to the whole process of the way that money/debt is currently being created out of nothing by occultists and Talmudists and so forth. Evidence, facts = Greece. I cite evidence, unlike a progressive that probably sees vague "tinges" of Antisemitism in Alex Jones because they've never actually argued with or dealt with Antisemitism in reality.

When did a religion become a race?

Apparently it was after Wilhelm Marr invented the pseudo scientific term "Semite," which was after oligarchs and international bankers claiming to be Jews and supporters of Zionism were done with Germany. "Judea Declares War on Germany" Etc. I wonder if they're about to declare war on Greece collectively. I can only imagine Jewish peasants there in that case: "Oh crap, they said that we just declared war on Greece. That's great." I hope the oligarchs and their media cut back on the headlines for the sake of Jewish peasants that actually have to live there, if they decide to declare war again.

Shrug. The longer people sit around trying to say that Jones is antisemitic instead of dealing rationally with some of the issues that he probably can't be debunked on, the worse the inevitable "correction" to increasing amounts of corruption will be. Because if corruption is not revealed by the media, then it will be revealed by infinite amounts of ponzi and symbols of debt/money colliding with a finite globe and the math and physics of which the real world is composed. It's a mathematical and physical certainty. Globalists say that won't happen because it's not a zero sum game, like Mr. "New World Order" Biden recently. There again, he said that they were planning to stimulate the economy with the MFer Global Corzine. And that went well, didn't it? Literally. He can't put two words together about the nature of banksterism and the Wizard of Oz at the end of the yellow brick road, so his silence says enough. They're either too dumb, literally, and therefore shouldn't be leaders. Or they're corrupt... and therefore shouldn't be leaders.

Jones is correct and cannot be debunked on the banking/ponzi aspect of it and NWO front men like Biden as far as I know. I'd be interested if anyone could debunk him on that or the whole process by which money/debt is being created out of nothing by international bankers in order to incorporate your children as collateral in the systems of debt/money that oligarchs trade with each other.

Actually, I think somewhere in this thread someone denied that the NWO even exists or something like that. If that's the case, then what have Biden and numerous other politicians and members of the ruling class been talking about when they keep saying: "We'd like to establish a New World Order. After all, we keep screwing the current one up with all of our ponzi." I don't get it. Maybe it's just the entertaining "ooga booga... scared yet!!!!!" framework or theories that Jones tends to put facts in. And then people go about their day to day life, they aren't scared, figure there's not much to fear... and then conclude that international bankers aren't actually looting the value of their economic language out from underneath them or that it won't cause "collapse" and so forth.

After all, life goes on... until that day when it doesn't.
 
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