Debunked: Alex Jones

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muttkat

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That WACO/CIA smuggling stuff may be interesting, it sounds literally fantastic (the stuff of fantasy) but I am curious as to what of substance is behind it - want to make a thread on it?
Make the claim as clear and precise as you can think of (ie, 'Branch Davidians had proof of CIA child/drug smuggling on behalf of Bush' or whatever).

Well you can watch Truth & Lies of 911 Michael Ruppert. It has parts 1 - 14. He was a LA detective who confronts this CIA guy who didn't get the Bill nomination because of the confrontation. He proves that the CIA was using Parks and Wildlife airplanes for smuggling cocaine cause one crashed with a mother lode to pay for their covert operations and how Bill was involved when he was governor of Arkansas. I'm more familiar with that but i'm trying to set up a new thread and this one is down the line. Thanks for asking though.
 

EpsilonVonVehron

New Member
...kidnapped children for CIA paedofile programs
Wow that's quite some claim, I think you need to make a separate thread for this off topic stuff.
Edit... I see you replied before me.

Re, martial law,. As for the military police closing down Boston, I think if there were potentially armed and desperate terrorists roaming my city I would expect the same thing. Protecting civilians is important, no?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Martial law is an option in an emergency isn't it? - this clearly was an extra-ordinary situation, *and* was temporary, and I'm doubtful it fully fits the definition of martial law.
In full-scale martial law, the highest-ranking military officer would take over, or be installed, as the military governor or as head of the government, thus removing all power from the previous executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.[1]
...
Typically, the imposition of martial law accompanies curfews, the suspension of civil law, civil rights, habeas corpus, and the application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians. Civilians defying martial law may be subjected to military tribunal (court-martial).

This clearly did not take place. There was a voluntary curfew, and normal commercial activity was ceased temporarily while the hunt took place.
(Was it even military forces that did the search or branches of law enforcement? Would this distinction matter?)

I think this was the most recent example in America, not Boston.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I have a friend that lives in the Boston area. I asked him about it. Schools were closed, some businesses were closed, the transit system was shut down and that did cause some larger businesses to close. Most smaller businesses didn't , Not even bars. Lots of folks didn't stay home, they walked down to Starbucks or the neighborhood bar or cafe. There was nothing that approached martial law. The only folks that think that there was, are folks like you and Alex Jones and those that want to twist anything to fit their viewpoint.
 

muttkat

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Banned
Wow that's quite some claim, I think you need to make a separate thread for this off topic stuff.
Edit... I see you replied before me.

Re, martial law,. As for the military police closing down Boston, I think if there were potentially armed and desperate terrorists roaming my city I would expect the same thing. Protecting civilians is important, no?
Ok , I have had with you. You are homophobic and the earlier post from the anti Jewish site shows that you have other problems as well.

If you want to discuss the Branch Davidians then you need to start a new thread.

You have failed to show that Alex Jones is correct even 1% of the time.

The Gish Gallop about Waco is a distraction.

As usual, you don't ever answer my questions. You're the one who came with the Mike Adams list claiming it was Alex Jones and when I ask you what predictions......then you jump to another list and expect me to go down the list, yours of course. You want to throw your little quick snippets out but when you have to take some time and research to answer me back, oh hell no.

On the so called anti-Jewish site; that is run by a Jewish man and I think he's pretty cool and I'm part Jewish myself so use that line on somebody who cares. Thanks I don't care.

Homophobic? You're boring me. For your info, I use to be a manager in a strip club and some gay girls who liked me would want to kiss me and if I was tipsy and feeling silly; I'd let them. If I was homophobic Missy psychoanalyst I would of been punching them in the face.

You just have a problem, cause I prove you wrong all the time and your ego can't handle it. Sorry, it sounds like your personal problem. TAA TAA
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
I have a friend that lives in the Boston area. I asked him about it. Schools were closed, some businesses were closed, the transit system was shut down and that did cause some larger businesses to close. Most smaller businesses didn't , Not even bars. Lots of folks didn't stay home, they walked down to Starbucks or the neighborhood bar or cafe. There was nothing that approached martial law. The only folks that think that there was, are folks like you and Alex Jones and those that want to twist anything to fit their viewpoint.


Yawn........zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
It's not just AJ's predictions people. Take a look at his content. Trust me, I was watching and listening to this guy 24/7 for years, too many years. My youtube account is still stuffed with I think 3 years worth of his videos and radio shows. I learned a few things about AJ during those years:

AJ is the conspiracy king, so if he didn't break the story, he either ignores it, or tries to smear it. He actually gets upset when people have to remind him he didn't start the 911 truther movement.
AJ is a pompous blowhard who acts like a 12 year old kid who lost his meds and his mommy took his ipad away. Every single interview he's done on mainstream media is an example of this.
AJ promotes conspiracies that tie directly into his ad based sponsors.

chemtrails are killing you, buy this air purifier
Fluoride is killing you, buy this reverse osmosis filter system
The financial system is crumbling, buy these gold coins
Your food is being poisoned to kill you all, buy this colloidal silver
Government shock troops are going to kick in your door and send you to a FEMA concentration camp, buy this self defense training course and get a free handgun.

what is Alex Jones? A patriot? A freedom fighter? A conspiracy theorist?

No, he's a gatekeeper who gives you have truths smothered in BS and wrapped in ad based revenue. He is the man sent out into the world, to make anyone and everyone who has questions, about anything, look like a drooling raving idiot. He's a poster child for mental illness, how many times has he claimed "they are out to get me"? too many, that's how many. He's a poster child for gun control.

They guy literally incites his viewers to stockpile food and ammunition for the coming civil war against the government. He's a danger to himself and everyone around him. the only "predictions" he made that were accurate were made by others, like Bill Cooper. AJ is a honeypot.

But let me put that into language AJ listeners can understand:

Alex INFORWARS.COM Jones INFOWARS.COM is INFOWARS.COM lying INFOWARS.COM to INFOWARS.COM you


Remember when I stated..... I believed a nuke bomb to go off in Texas or Chicago. Well I just found this:

https://truthernews.wordpress.com/2...vid-chase-taylor-in-swiss-court-june-25-2013/

https://www.facebook.com/DavidChaseTaylor

Darn I'm good. lol
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
This is an article that I agree wholeheartedly with about Jones and his followers.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/dear-conspiracy-nuts-alex-jones-is-playing-you-for-fools/

 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
This is an article that I agree wholeheartedly with about Jones and his followers.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/dear-conspiracy-nuts-alex-jones-is-playing-you-for-fools/

Yep its all about money. Strange how it all goes up to the big corporations running the west. Can you flip a coin 100 times and call it right over 90 times?

Does Alex Jones get paid $37 million for ruining the economy like Larry Summers, aka 'Typhoid Mary'?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Larry_Summers

http://www.gregpalast.com/
 
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Oxymoron

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Banned
No longer:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...65c888-1e44-11e3-94a2-6c66b668ea55_story.html


Talk about off topic- in a thread on Alex Jones- out of now where you post about Summers...
Not really, (no pun intended :)). The discussion led to talk of 'financial motivations' and I felt it appropriate to juxtapose some 'real financial motivations'.

Yes interesting he has withdrawn. Thanks.

From your link:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/La...Banking_Banks_Economy_Finance-130917-640.html
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
Yes interesting he has withdrawn. Thanks.

From your link:


He has a lot of baggage- and not just of the conspiratorial-puppet master of financial evil kind...
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
He does, with both women and with blacks. His comments about Corneal West for the latter and this 'mess' for the first.




It was made worse by the fact that the other major candidate was a women
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
The discussion led to talk of 'financial motivations' and I felt it appropriate to juxtapose some 'real financial motivations'.

It seems that all the discussion about Summers is out of place in this thread ... and no one had recently brought up 'financial motivations' as Oxy asserted.
 
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Oxymoron

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Banned
It seems that all the discussion about Summers is out of place in this thread ... and no one had recently brought up 'financial motivations' as Oxy asserted.
That is a very convenient, and demonstrably false memory lapse, as you yourself brought the subject up by posting the link which you state you totally agree with:

Alex Jones isn’t a raving lunatic — he’s a very clever individual who realized there is a financial gold mine in peddling crazy conspiracy stories laced with a strong tinge of anti-Semitism. While Alex was still popping pimples in high school, there was David Icke who makes him seem almost normal. Alex Jones basically followed in his footsteps and surpassed him as the new leader of the conspiracy fringe. He took the insane rants of David Icke and watered them down a little to be more palatable for a wider audience — which, of course, means more money in his pocket. You see, it all boils down to one thing: maximum audience which equals maximum revenue.

Which of course opens up a number of other issues as well.

Strange how debunkers object when people counter with examples of real financial corruption involving billions as opposed to a guy earning a living, (Capitalism), and funding a counter campaign against corruption and bold faced lies wrapped up in 'marketing'. I am sure you would like to see him penniless and rummaging around rubbish bins like a lot of other Americans. And what would the argument be then... "Oh look what this loony is saying... the one without two cents to his name and rummaging around rubbish bins to survive. Are you really going to take notice of him?"

And how apt that you link to a source which cries 'anti semetic', even though he is married to a Jewish woman.

And BTW, it certainly has a helluva lot more relevance to this thread than some people astroturfing by jumping to WTC's 1 and 2 and lifts in the thread about WTC 7 and Chief Nigro ordering a collapse zone.
 
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Oxymoron

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Banned
He does, with both women and with blacks. His comments about Corneal West for the latter and this 'mess' for the first.


It was made worse by the fact that the other major candidate was a women

Well that makes sense. Stand down because of some rumpus over slightly sexist remarks rather than anything trivial like being one of the main architects of worldwide economic collapse. Viva democracy.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I'm not sure whether this should be in this thread of the Washington shooting one....maybe both - I have no problems with it being shifted if required....

HOWEVER....apparently Alex jones is more important than we thought, since the Washington shooting was/is actually a conspiracy by the global elite to discredit him and Infowars.

no.....seriously....:eek::rolleyes::D:rolleyes::cool:
So what is the problem with him saying what he said, (which is not what you said). It is all true. It happens all the time even on this site with allegations that Alex is responsible for radicalising people... the same for CT's in general. You have threads on this site dedicated to it. It is obviously part of a wider marginalisation/demonisation attempt.

Also the headline is bunk by headline: He did not say the attack was created to discredit him.

 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
And BTW, it certainly has a helluva lot more relevance to this thread than some people astroturfing by jumping to WTC's 1 and 2 and lifts in the thread about WTC 7 and Chief Nigro ordering a collapse zone.

But it doesn't Oxy. Quit with the baseless attack.

In the thread on Nigro- the thread had long since morphed to include discussion of "9/11"- the report, the possibility of 'bombs" etc (prompted by Grieves)...I responded to a comment about those supposed bombs.

In a thread debunking a specific person, you interject with with political rant about an entirely different person.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I have a friend that lives in the Boston area. I asked him about it. Schools were closed, some businesses were closed, the transit system was shut down and that did cause some larger businesses to close. Most smaller businesses didn't , Not even bars. Lots of folks didn't stay home, they walked down to Starbucks or the neighborhood bar or cafe. There was nothing that approached martial law. The only folks that think that there was, are folks like you and Alex Jones and those that want to twist anything to fit their viewpoint.
Yep Alex Jones did a really good job of getting fake militarised police to shake down houses so they could be filmed as evidence of a fake lockdown.


This guy is obviously not your friend.

 

MikeC

Closed Account
So what is the problem with him saying what he said, (which is not what you said). It is all true. It happens all the time even on this site with allegations that Alex is responsible for radicalising people... the same for CT's in general. You have threads on this site dedicated to it. It is obviously part of a wider marginalisation/demonisation attempt.

so you think that the Washington shooting was actually done by the authorities?

Also the headline is bunk by headline: He did not say the attack was created to discredit him.


So it's all a plan to discredit him and therefore the headline that says it is all a plan to discredit him is false?

He says the shooting was a "false flag" plot by the NWO/etc., and that the shooter was a "patsy". He notes that Russians and Nazi's staged false flags (Godwins law), he explains how these things work, tells us that the Fed's have a team that shoot the patsy and then shoot "the people" and it is all designed to discredit him.

How is the headline false??
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
so you think that the Washington shooting was actually done by the authorities?

I didn't say that

So it's all a plan to discredit him and therefore the headline that says it is all a plan to discredit him is false?
No there is a plan to discredit by association. i.e. 'they found that the shooter was into CT's or watched RT or Alex Jones'...as i said much along the lines of threads on this forum.

He says the shooting was a "false flag" plot by the NWO/etc., and that the shooter was a "patsy". He notes that Russians and Nazi's staged false flags (Godwins law), he explains how these things work, tells us that the Fed's have a team that shoot the patsy and then shoot "the people" and it is all designed to discredit him.

How is the headline false??
The proof Mike is in your, (and their), use of quotes where you/they take out a couple of words and write a narrative around them. Quote me what you say he says.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I didn't say that

I didn't say you did - I asked you if you did - and you haven't answered?
No there is a plan to discredit by association. i.e. 'they found that the shooter was into CT's or watched RT or Alex Jones'...as i said much along the lines of threads on this forum.

so there is a plan to discredit...OK....

The proof Mike is in your, (and their), use of quotes where you/they take out a couple of words and write a narrative around them. Quote me what you say he says.

He says the shooter was a "patsy" (quote), he says that false flags are done by getting the patsy shooter to a time and place to be killed by the response team who then go on to kill the victims (paraphrase), he says that the same team that was at the Boston false flag "up and down" (quote) responded to Washington.

So yeah - I've taken a few words as quotes that are easy to spot (not having a transcript) and added what I understand them and their context to mean. That is what people do - except you - you haven't even even been able to do that.

All you are doing is saying "you are wrong" (paraphrase) - a typical denialist tactic when you have no case.

I think you belong in ignore - you contribute nothing here except trolling and baseless argument.

Bye.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I didn't say you did - I asked you if you did - and you haven't answered?
so there is a plan to discredit...OK....
He says the shooter was a "patsy" (quote), he says that false flags are done by getting the patsy shooter to a time and place to be killed by the response team who then go on to kill the victims (paraphrase), he says that the same team that was at the Boston false flag "up and down" (quote) responded to Washington.
So yeah - I've taken a few words as quotes that are easy to spot (not having a transcript) and added what I understand them and their context to mean. That is what people do - except you - you haven't even even been able to do that.
All you are doing is saying "you are wrong" (paraphrase) - a typical denialist tactic when you have no case.
I think you belong in ignore - you contribute nothing here except trolling and baseless argument.

Bye.
I am so distraught :(
 

Clock

Senior Member.
Moving to this thread- the other one is getting cluttered with other non-topic arguments, and will most likely end up in the Rambles section. I'm reposting my info here.
 

Clock

Senior Member.


Alex Jones says Climate Change is fake!!!

In the first video, he states that thousands of emails of leaked Climate-Gate had been found which state that Climate change is faked, but that the earth is actually cooling. It's a shame that Alex and nobody else can actually show us any of these e-mails.
Then, he mentions that Al Gore lied and that Temperature goes up first, and C02 later, not the opposite. While Alex does not show any evidence of this, I did find this:http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-does-CO2-lagging-temperature-mean.html This website states that Gore over simplified the explanation of C02.

Later, he talks about Carbon Taxes. He goes on on his usual tangent that Carbon Tax proves the Global Domination Agenda and all of that other baloney. Alex seems to think that Carbon Tax affects everybody in the US. That is false. This is how Carbon Tax works:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/carbon-tax.htm

Alex talks a lot about the leaked climate gate e-mails, to the point where it seems as if I have to look it up to see what it is. A website puts things into perspective nicely:

If you want to see the full article, go here: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
 

Clock

Senior Member.


It's debunking time once again.

In the beginning of this video, Alex says some very true things, about the the earth and the universe, and how much humanity is capable of creating and doing things. It is actually very made, good job on Alex and his editing team. It all goes well until the 4:00 minute mark in the video above, when he mentions "The Globalists".

As I often say, before you start talking about the NWO or Globalists theory, you need to prove a correlation between the Governments, the industries and the media. If you cannot, then that automatically debunks the whole NWO thing. A good article (http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/global-domination-agenda-debunked/) discusses this here. It is well worth a read, and lays the smackdown on the theory.
Alex Jones: The entire development of these systems [technology] are in the hands of The Globalists, super predators, who have a lustful disdain, and hate for humanity.
Clock: Why do they have a hate for humanity? They are humans themselves, and if they want to kill off to kill off half of humanity (or all of it, while you're at it), what's the point? Then, there will be nothing to run and nothing to do. This line is also very silly, it sounds like they are talking about the evil empire in the Star Wars movies.

Globalists and social engineers talk about the total population like we are animals, and our main use is to be manipulated
-Nothing to say here. This is Alex's typical line of paranoia and opinion.

...to be controlled, to be tested upon,
If they did not give a damn about us why would they bother testing us? Besides, most scientists test their experiments with rats or mice. If you see in this link, (http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2012/20121101taffe.html) the journalists write that the first tests on the rats were successful. They would not test on humans.
Foster children have been used to be tested upon by the US Military for the past 60 years
-There have been cases of humans being tested (not children) for our safety during the cold war, in St. Louis/ Texas. However, this has been debunked here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/888-Army-Air-Sprayed-Poor-Americans-in-Texas-and-St-Louis
The whole "for more than 60 years" line lacks evidence and is false. He does not even bother to give us examples of children used for testing.

I'm asking humanity to realize that a very small group, of inbred, unhappy, twisted and wicked people, have seized control of human development, and are attempting to establish a total control system of technocratic surveillance systems and de-humanization. It is now that we must begin to struggle against their bureaucracy. Fighting their 1984 system, with liberty and enlightenment and truth, until the levers of technological development, are leveraged from the hands of the globalists. Humanity has a very dark future.
-Technically we all have control of human development. If you look up human development on google, you get this wikipedia page: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_development_(biology)) Sex is human development, it is not only something the "ultra mean globalists" have. And if he is talking about alternating a human gene and cloning it, well think again. Many countries are banning genetic human testing and cloning,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning#Current_law) so this entire statement is false and plain feermongering.

The real threats facing humanity are not the fake environmental threats that Al Gore and the UN talk about.
-Extremely debatabe

There are unchecked, cross-species genetic engineering. Tens of thousands of biotech companies, universities and governments, randomly splicing viruses, bacteria from plants and animals and then injecting them into other animals, which is already giving a rise to mutated viruses and bacteria and irrevocable vandalization of the genetic code of the planet.
-Although he is right here, it is taken entirely out of context. Mutated virus are created by mistake, in which there is not enough protein in the gene of the substance. If there is a mistake in the mutation, it cannot give any offspring, and if a DNA system is broken, it can be fixed using the DNA Repair system in order to prevent mutation. Although mutations can be problematic, they have lots of benefits as well: for example a cell named CCR5 can help delay the AIDS disease from having an effect your body, and people who naturally have mutations in their body can help fight very harmful diseases, such as the mutation CCR5-Δ32 help the human body to be immune from the Bubonic Plague. "...Mutation may enable the mutant organism to withstand particular environmental stresses better than wild-type organisms, or reproduce more quickly. In these cases a mutation will tend to become more common in a population through natural selection."-wkipedia Also, Mutations are not unchecked, I am not sure where Alex got that from. They are obviously checked if they know it can cause cancer, as seen in the wikipedia article below.
sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_advantages_of_mutation

High tech chemical and most importantly biological weapons development, unchecked nanotech,
-Unchecked Nanotech is pure fiction. This technology is always checked, and some of the problems that conspiracy theorists say about it (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nanotechnology#In_fiction) are just plain false.
Sources: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nanotechnology

the artificial creation of black holes,
-Alex pulled that out of his @ss. This is what a physicist has to say about it:

Although I see where Alex saw his info about the 2 phycists in china creating a black hole, this is actually what their experiment was

It mimics the properties of a black hole, the machine does not create a cosmetic black hole.

sources: http://www.askamathematician.com/20...ame-effects-if-so-how-small-could-it-be-made/
http://gajitz.com/suck-it-up-first-artificial-black-hole-built-we-survived/

any matter weapons of the airforce, who admits they developed a new viral vaccine that re-engineers the brain by attacking certain gangly i systems in which you could no longer feel emotions.
This is false, a pure fabrication. It you can't find it on google, where can you?

...and in the incoming years they are going to override every major life form on this planet without asking you.
Once again this is false, there are many groups that are against human cloning, again, look at the list of countries who refuse human testing.


That's a trillion times what Monsanto does planting your crops next to yours, and they come and charge in on your property and charge copyright infringement when they polluted your property.
Gmos debunked here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/177-GMO-conspiracy-theories


And then... Alex goes on another well spoken about how unethical it is to do all of these transformations. He still says his typical BS of "NWO are trying to distract you" but alex is actually being a wellspoken person in this, and I must say that he is doing a good job. It's really a shame that Alex Jones is a Conspiracy Theorist, as he is pretty well spoken when he is not yelling and screaming like an ape. But then, he goes back to the whole wake up message, which is dumb.

At one point he talks about those times when scientists say the planet would be better off without us. Alex says that is a plan by the NWO to make humanity seem as a desease. And honestly? The Scientists who say so are right. Michael Chriton once wrote in The Lost World that humans are so destructive, that is so easy for us to manipulate things that we are somewhat like a disease on the earth, and we abuse its resources to hell. And to be fair? we sort of do. Would Climate Change be an issue if we were not extracting oils from tar pits or decomposed fossils? Would have less floods and landslides if we did not cut as many forests down? Alex takes these quotes by scientists way out of context.

He says that they are openly planning to release biological weapons in order to kill us all, which is false as the US, UK and Russia banned the developement of stockipiling bio weapons, and they is also a lack of proof that the other countries will launch all of them on us to kill us all.

More rambling on trying to dumb us down. Yawn.

And.. he talks about that for the rest of the vid. I hope you enjoyed this debunking. And now, I will take a nice shower, this guy is giving me a headache!
 
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mynym

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As I often say, before you start talking about the NWO or Globalists theory, you need to prove a correlation between the Governments, the industries and the media.

It seem to me that all you'd have to do is read the writings of numerous religious and corporate/government factions within various empire that are looking forward to or seeking global government. People are seeking forms of global government or domination through empire and so forth, that's not even debatable. It used to be that many were seeking that based on race, openly. But there are still other forms of it, whether it's an Islamist seeking global government based on Sharia or a Talmudist seeking to establish a global empire through the banking system and usury. There were also other factions like the Jesuits seeking to bring everything under the dominion of the Pope or the Illuminati seeking to establish a form of global government run by their own cult members based on Egoism/Satanism.

With respect to modern versions of New World Order Inc. ideas themselves, that's an open conspiracy. So those ideas are typical to people trying to rule and dominate the globe for the sake of multinational corporations and ultimately, bankers. And if one had to pick which faction would ultimately be successful in ruling or dominating, it would have to be the "in plane sight" bankers and members of secret societies similar to the original Illuminati located on "33rd Liberty Street" or encrypting 11, 11, 11 to add up to 33 in their corporate logos and so forth. What's the huge difference between a business meeting and a conspiracy or certain levels of a corporation and a cult?

If you cannot, then that automatically debunks the whole NWO thing.

There's no way to debunk a documented and historical fact like the whole NWO thing. It's both a fact and a theory about historical facts.

Your link:
There are groups like that just as there have been groups like that throughout history. They've been exposed at various points throughout history and in modern times it's often not even a closed or a secret conspiracy. That's why politicians keep talking about incorporating everyone in a "New World Order" through banking and financial systems owned by oligarchs to this day. You can't "debunk" historical facts like the fact that they keep talking about creating a "New World Order" while conspiring in government or business meetings to bring exactly what they just got done openly talking about. (What a conspiracy theory it would be, to think that they're actually meeting to conspire to bring about some of the things that they just openly talked about as far as incorporating everyone into forms of global trade and global government.)

You can only have different perspectives and theories based on the facts. Trying to debunk facts usually represents denial of the sort that no theory could ever be admitted to, no matter how much explanatory power it has with respect to the facts. E.g.: "My theory is that the reason that they keep talking about establishing a New World Order is because that's what they want and are conspiring to bring about." VS. "No. There is no NWO! I'm scared... so prove it... or somethin'."

Being scared and seeing patterns in everything (Jones) or not being scared and seeking to atomize/debunk everything (Metabunk) is not a metric for the truth. (And yes, I just staked out the Center and so forth. But there's nothing for it when different patterns of thought are this extreme. It would almost be simpler to start backwards. What would a scary conspiracy be to you and what would serve as evidence for it? Or for Alex, what wouldn't be much of a conspiracy worth getting scared about while selling some tangy tangerine to try to awaken/scare more people about things?)

Alex Jones: The entire development of these systems [technology] are in the hands of The Globalists, super predators, who have a lustful disdain, and hate for humanity.
Clock: Why do they have a hate for humanity? They are humans themselves, and if they want to kill off to kill off half of humanity (or all of it, while you're at it), what's the point? Then, there will be nothing to run and nothing to do. This line is also very silly, it sounds like they are talking about the evil empire in the Star Wars movies.

If it sounds like or resonates with forms of entertainment, that might be because entertainers often get their ideas and inspiration from reality. (E.g., Lucas with his mythological archetypes, etc.) Still waiting on the Return of the Jesuits where they point out that the moon was created as a "death star" and so forth though. Just kidding. Or am I? Because there again, I might be using a Jesuit mind trick on you. Nothing to see here, move along.

Anyway, why do they hate humanity and all that? Are you kidding? You end your own post with possible reasons to hate vast swaths of humanity (or possibly everyone). So you'll probably need to get that settled in your own head first, before trying to project a standard of love and caring for all humanity onto others.

Globalists and social engineers talk about the total population like we are animals, and our main use is to be manipulated
-Nothing to say here. This is Alex's typical line of paranoia and opinion.

For the record, I wish that I didn't wind up defending Alex due to the extremes between "everything is a conspiracy" and "nothing at all to see here, move along." But with respect to that, that's nothing more than a well documented reality and a mentality that shows up time and again in religious thought too. It shows up in anything from concepts like the "kuffar" to the "goyim" among factions seeking global domination in the guise of religion and it already showed up in the eugenics movement and Nazism too. Do you think that mentality just disappeared or that there's no evidence that other elitist factions fall into it too?

The reason that reasoning works, humanity's treatment of animals. Maybe if people treated animals better, then there wouldn't be much reason to fear being treated like an animal.

"When someone has behaved like an animal, he says: 'I'm only human!' But when he is treated like an animal he says: 'I'm human too!'" --Karl Kraus

The whole "for more than 60 years" line lacks evidence and is false. He does not even bother to give us examples of children used for testing.

(MKULTRA CIA Document Index)
(Human Experimentation - An Overview of Cold War Era Programs, GAO Report, September 28, 1994)

If you can't get the basics right and are trying to debunk well documented facts then why do you expect the rest of your claims to be taken seriously by anyone but low information content people that tend to agree based on their biases?

There's no issues with a lot of what you wrote but you can't "debunk" facts or sit around demanding that everything that Jones uses as mere background information be provided or proven to you.
 
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Clock

Senior Member.
Thanks for the corrections, mynym, I was actually hoping someone would do this- this was in my first days as a debunker, I guess you can say I was still 'learning the craft' (I still am, mind you) and writing big posts like these were still a foreign to me. I was surprised how well received it was; people on skeptic project thought I did a good job, people on Metabunk thought I did a good job, despite many of the things I am saying here are a bit "half-assed" if you will, so I really do appreciate your corrections.

The whole "for more than 60 years" line lacks evidence and is false. He does not even bother to give us examples of children used for testing.
(MKULTRA CIA Document Index)
(Human Experimentation - An Overview of Cold War Era Programs, GAO Report, September 28, 1994)

Yes I'm aware of MKULTRA, but Alex Jones wasn't talking about that. He was talking about testing on foster children. To my knowledge, I don't think they've ever tested foster children to MKULTRA, (at least there aren't any reports on it)


What I mean by NWO is the big bad mean theory in which a bunch of people want to take the entire world over, invade the people and throw them into FEMA camps and ruin the world.
 

Clock

Senior Member.
Another person (from a conspiracy website, interestingly) debunked Alex Jones-Piers Morgan interview. Here is the debunking:

[h=1]Fact-checking Alex Jones’ gun control interview on Piers Morgan[/h]
Here’s the viral-video interview Alex Jones had on Piers. He goes on about gun control and uprising/revolution that will occur if boundaries are overstepped. Jones calls him a “Hatchet Man” for the New World Order; tee-hee, Jones is always good for entertainment value, if nothing else.


Piers states that he supports a nationwide ban on semi-automatic, high-capacity clips, close gun-show loopholes that allow private dealers to sell guns without background checks. This is about the first and only point he will get during the interview because Jones proceeds to go off on him.

Here’s an unprofessional fact-check breakdown of Alex Jones’ statements, consisting of Wikipedia and other website references that I could find to the best of my ability to determine the truth. Please double check them to see what you think. I’m by no means an expert in this, but Wikipedia is supposed to be held to a similar validity and accuracy as an encyclopedia (I heard a whole story on this on the radio once), so for the most part I think Wikipedia is a fairly safe resource, but definitely not the end-all be-all.

Here we go:

1. Mao Zedong said “political power grows out the barrel of a gun.” –True.

Alright, we’re off to a good start here, maybe Jones’ arguments are going to have a nice, solid base. From Chapter 6 of ‘On Guerilla Warfare,’ in which Zedong explains that military action is necessary to attain political action.

2. Mao Zedong killed 80 million people because he had all of the guns. –Mostly false, but partially true.

Zedong is believed to have killed close to 77 million people in China’s genocide and mass murder, but that includes deaths as a result of his policies as leader of China, including famine upon his people due to his hunger for more international power. So to claim that the deaths are SOLELY due to gun control is pretty farfetched, but I’ll give him partial credit.
SOURCE , SOURCE#2

Mao Zedong was in power from 1949-1976 as leader of the Communist Party and of the People’s Republic of China. He executed and murdered millions of people, and even killed some land owners in order to give their land to poorer peasants. But to say that Zedong’s gun control policy killed every single one of the 77 million (estimated) people is far beyond realistic. Gun control was only introduced in China in 1966, after an incident in Tiananmen Square. It wasn’t until 1996 that full gun controls were put into measure; that’s 20 years after Zedong’s death.
SOURCE

3. The government buys 1.6 billion bullets, armored vehicles, tanks, helicopters, predator drones, armed now in U.S. skies, being used to arrest people in North Dakota. -True

They did in fact arrest people in North Dakota in 2012 through the use of a Predator drone, and it doesn’t look like it’s going to stop anytime soon. The FAA suggests we could have over 30,000 drones by 2020 in the American skies.
SOURCE , SOURCE#2

4. The Second Amendment isn’t there for duck hunting. It’s there to protect us from tyrannical government and street thugs. -Partially true.

The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights that has had the most recent Supreme Court rulings in 2008/2010 that the amendment is there to protect an individual’s right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia. They didn’t really mention tyrannical government, but you could assume street thugs were included since they go on to mention self-defense.
SOURCE

5. Women in India are signing petitions to own firearms because they believe the police won’t protect them. -True.

274 license requests and 1,200 inquiries (from December 18th- January 6th) for firearms have been submitted by Indian women in response the recent rape incident of a woman being gang raped and murdered on a bus.
To play devil’s advocate, there’s evidence that guns would actually make these women more vulnerable because of domestic violence.
SOURCE

6. F.B.I. crime statistics from 2011 show a 20+% crime drop in the last nine years. –False… but only slightly.

As a 10-year trend (okay, that’s slightly longer than the nine year quote), violent crimes (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault) have gone down 15.5%, not 20+%. This is a bit nit-picky, so to keep this argument logical, let’s go ahead and further research this since Jones’ point is that the violent crime rates have gone down, even though gun ownership has gone up.

I believe Jones says nine years specifically because he’s referencing the expiration of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban which banned the manufacturing of semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines from 1994-2004. If that is the case, there have been several studies into the effectiveness and crime rates during that timeframe. Most of these reports found that there were very little, to know significant effect on gun violence. Even a report by the U.S. Department of Justice made the statement that assault rifles are rarely used in gun crimes.

It appears that Jones’ statement is true, but a point that I can honestly bring up (which is sort of covered by Piers during the interview) is that there have been several mass murders since 2004, all made possible through the use of assault weapons. Is the number of lives lost compensated for in these studies? I would think not, they are looking at crime rates and instances; not the 10+, 20+, 30+ dead bodies racked up in one mass shooting. And also, if you look at the Bureau of Justice’s violent crime rate trends since 1994, you can see that there has been a sharp decline since 1994, with numbers dipping to all-time lows since 1973. Does this show a correlation to the ban of assault weapons? According the studies it does not, but I’m just going to point that out.
SOURCE , SOURCE#2 , SOURCE#3

Another interesting source here shows what the law enforcement feels about the assault weapons.

7. Hitler took the guns. –False

The German government passed the ‘Regulations on Weapons Ownership’ that made all firearms illegal in 1919, well before Hitler. After that, in 1928, there were other gun laws that made it legal to own guns again, but only with several permits. In 1938 Germany made revisions that deregulated rifles and shotguns, and relaxed the gun laws to only consider handguns. The Nazi gun regulation of 1938 did in fact restrict handguns from the Jewish people, but not the entire country.
SOURCE

8. Stalin took the guns. -True
SOURCE

9. Mao took the guns. -False (see #2 above)

10. Fidel Castro took the guns. -False.

Cuba has a Constitution that specifically states they can be armed in Chapter 1, Article 3:

Article 3: In the Republic of Cuba sovereignty lies in the people, from whom originates all the power of the state. That power is exercised directly or through the assemblies of People’s Power and other state bodies which derive their authority from these assemblies, in the form and according to the norms established in the Constitution and by law.
When no other recourse is possible, all citizens have the right to struggle through all means, including armed struggle, against anyone who tries to overthrow the political, social and economic order established in this Constitution.
SOURCE
 

Clock

Senior Member.
SOURCE

11. Hugo Chavez took the guns- True.

Only in 2012, but I’ll give this one to Jones.
SOURCE

12. Suicide is now the #1 cause of death in America. -Partially true and false.

Suicide has taken over motor vehicle crashes as the #1 cause of death by injury, not flat-out cause of death. Heart disease and cancer still takes the cake by almost ten-fold, which is the ultimate conspiracy theory; our food. Jones sort of implies that Prozac is one of the “suicide-mass murder” pills that is the cause of all this, I’m not sure how to fact check that one properly. Jones posted more about it HERE. My vote is that I don’t trust ANY of the drugs given out, although I feel that some people do benefit from them, but for the most part they are unnecessary and dangerous mind altering drugs. The doctors get compensated to hand them out like candy, which is a byproduct of our capitalistic-for-profit healthcare system.
SOURCE , SOURCE#2

13. Morgan asks “How many gun murders were there in America last year?” Jones replies, “About 11,458, and about 74% of those were gang related.” –Possibly True and DEFINITELY false

I couldn’t find the official statistics for 2012, but I did find charts for 2011 and further back on the FBI website. I don’t know how Jones got 11,458 precisely, but it doesn’t seem all that far off from the average of the last few years, so this one could be true.
SOURCE

As far as that 74% claim, let’s break that down: 74% X 11,458 = 8,479 gang related murders in 2012. This is far more than the average of 2,000 per year from 2006-2010, so this one is grossly false.
SOURCE

14. Jones then replies, “How many people die from infections in hospitals? 197,000.” -False.

This topic is one I’m more familiar with in my anatomy studies. He is referring to nosocomial infections, and there are an estimated 99,000 deaths caused per year due to this. It is still an alarming number (and higher than the number of gun related deaths in America).
SOURCE

15. This one is by far one of the funniest exchanges during the interview, so I’ll transcribe more of it below:

Piers says, “How many gun murders were there in Britain last year?” and Jones refuses to answer, calling it a trivial “Perry Mason factoid.” Alex Jones also replies, “How many great white sharks kill people every year but they’re scared to swim?” Jones says that the UK has “hoards of people burning down cities and beating old women’s brains out every day, they arrest people in England if they defend themselves, that’s on record, my god, you’ve got a total police state.”- False

Although I’m sure an old woman’s brains have been “beated out” somewhere in the UK, the English don’t arrest anyone for defending themselves. They do, however, favor gun control. The police are generally not allowed to carry guns though, which contradicts the police state argument somewhat. The UK does enjoy one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world, 40 times lower than that of America. The UK has a much lower intentional homicide rate with 1.2 per 100,000 residents, while the USA has 4.8 per 100,000 (which is actually still a fairly low rate, the world’s average is 6.9 per 100,000).
SOURCE , SOURCE#2 , SOURCE#3

16. Jones tells Piers to “go back and face charges for the hacking scandal.” -True

Piers was involved with a hacking scandal where he was involved with a phone hacking of Lord Leveson in 2012. He is also supposedly buddies with phone hacker Rupert Murdoch of Fox News.
SOURCE

17. Piers is a “Hatchet Man” for the New World Order. -Undetermined

With his ties with Rupert Murdoch I wouldn’t put it past him. The mass media types are sketchy at best. Although he does argue against the British Royal Family in the Princess Diana ‘Unlawful Killing’ documentary so maybe he’s not.

18. Piers claims there were 35 gun deaths in the UK last year. -Undetermined

There were 39 gun deaths in 2008-2009, so this one’s probably true.
SOURCE

19. Jones cites a study about a form of murder called ‘democide’ referenced in a Hawaiian university study that researches the number of deaths caused by government. He claims 292 million people were killed by the government in the 20th century. -True, (true enough).

After scouring around the internet, I think Jones is referencing professor of political science Rudolph Rummel out of the University of Hawaii, where he postulates that 262 million people were killed by government causes in the last century. Rummel coined the term democide, and has researched the topic extensively.
SOURCE

20. Jones says that statistically where there are more guns there is less crime. -Undetermined

Jones’ website uses violent crime offense figures to make an assumption, and this oversimplifies the statistics in my opinion. Although the article makes some good points and is worth a read. He references a DailyMail article (which is from clear back to 2001) that talks about the crime rates in the UK, but he conflates all crime with violent gun crimes, where the DailyMail article is talking about any crime, such as having your car stolen.

Overall though, this is a topic that could be misconstrued and overevaluated no matter which side you’re one. Pro-gun people cite NRA-sponsored gun studies, while Anti-gun types will cite more liberal sources, so it’s hard to find a non-biased and true solution. Hence the fierce debate over the subject.

To add one more option into this debate, I’d like to argue that less guns means less crime by citing the crime rate decrease we’ve had since the late ‘90s against the Gallup poll that shows the gun ownership in America decreasing drastically since the ‘90s. This same source (The Washington Post) posits more arguments that suggest gun rates increase as do violent crimes and vice versa.
SOURCE , SOURCE#2 , SOURCE#3 (Gallup Poll graph)

21. Jones says that knives murders are three times higher than gun murders. -False

I don’t know where he came up with that figure. The USDoJ has several years of data that suggest otherwise.
SOURCE

22. Mexico has a total gun ban and the most violent crime rate in the world. -False

Mexico has an intentional homicide rate of 22.7, compared to Hondoras (91.6), Jamaica (52.2) and dozens of other countries; it is probably not the highest violent crime rate in the world. Also, it is legal to own a gun in Mexico, they also have a Constitution with a right to bear arms. They have piles of red tape and applications to go through before getting it, but they are not completely banned as Jones claims. Ironically, most of the illegal guns in Mexico are from the U.S..
SOURCE , SOURCE

23. The U.K. has the highest violent crime rate. -Partially true.

In all of Europe, the U.K. does have the highest violent crime rate with 2,000 violent crimes per 100,000 people, as compared to the U.S. where we have 466 per 100,000. Note that violent crimes include murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. So does this have a correlation with guns? Not really, but it’s still true.
SOURCE
 

JeffreyNotGeoffrey

Active Member
23 points where he picks apart various claims by Jones is a gish gallop? Don't think so. He actually spent some time on each to talk about it. Keep in mind that seemed to be a debunk of the garbage Jones spewed on Piers Morgan. You almost have to gish gallop to debunk Jones since when he talks he seems to average about 3 pieces of bunk per minute. The man is a gun nut and fails to properly show his points for more guns. Canada seems to have approximate gun ownership levels as the US, but has a way lower violent crime rate/gun homicide rate. I wonder if another point to consider is population density. But the whole Hitler took guns thing is false. The NRA et al love to trot that one out, and it is pants on fire false. In fact Hitler loosened gun regs on everyone except of course the Jews.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't mean to be funny Clock but that is some gish gallop there... I mean that is HUGE man.

I think the point has been made that Jones often says things that are false, or highly arguable. But these long lists seem rather pointless on page 3. This thread is not really conforming to the Debunking People guidelines, or the Posting Guidelines.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Gish gallop is not point/counterpoint, it's point/point/point/point...etc.

(ETA. I'm confused. 'doesn't conform to posting guidelines'? What would be the appropriate place to discuss Jones' claims?)
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"not really conforming", as it lacks focus and efficiency. It's one thing to demonstrate Jones has a pattern of using falsehood. It's another to try to get into detail on each and every one of those falsehoods in a single thread. And then keep adding lists on top of that. Many of the items deserve their own more detailed individual threads, and any discussion of them here (on page 3+) is just going to get lost.
 
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