Dane Wigington - Inaccuracies and Omissions

Leifer

Senior Member.
I found this article, in Dutch:

I couldn't find any official ruling for the case, only that same link that states the court ordered testing. The case kinda runs dry after that.....from what I could(n't) find.
Court ordered testing ? where are the results ?
Kinda off-topic here, but I'm curious.

I have another post on Felderhof's and Dane's recent post, mostly pointing out that Felderhof's "whistle-blowing" is not related to geoengineering, nor is it anything that Dane believes in either.
https://www.metabunk.org/will-chemt...rotoxic-syndrome-bandwagon.t2100/#post-167216

Willem Felderof has a website...hard to find because he's calling himself "Juan Matus".
http://juanmatus.com/
(...but it's simply links to other articles, ....not even a "contact" or email link.)
"Don Juan Matus", is a reappearing character in several Castaneda books.
On Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/juan.matus47?fref=nf

JUAN.jpg
 
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MikeC

Closed Account
Dutch court transcript via google translate -

as I read it the judgement is that KLM are not required to pay wages when he refused to work, and KLM are required to commission an independent review of TCP levels in cockpits within 14 days, to be completed within 6 weeks after that, and to pay penalties of 1000 Euro per day they do not meet this requirement to a maximum of 50,000 Euro.


5 The decision

The judge

5.1. 5.1.
KLM condemns within fourteen days after service of this judgment to a research institute or a researcher, to commission a study on the presence and concentration of TCP in cabin air of its Boeing 737;

provides that the investigation no later than one month after the service of this sentence will have to begin that examination may have a maximum duration of six weeks, four weeks for actual research and two weeks for the preparation of the report;

provides that the investigation should be entrusted to an independent and objective researcher or research institute;

provides that [plaintiff] must be involved in the research as follows:

- [Plaintiff] will be given the opportunity to comment on the questions and the research design and the appropriateness of a researcher or research institute,

- [Plaintiff] the opportunity will have to get themselves to exchange views with the researcher of mind and if required to be present at the examination;

provides that the parties are free mutual agreement, taking into account the considerations presented in 4:14, to make the above alternative arrangements;

5.2. 2.5.
KLM condemns to [plaintiff] to a penalty payment of
EUR 1.000, - for each day or part thereof that they did not meet the 5.1. convictions and modalities conforms to a maximum of EUR 50 000 - has been achieved, this penalty shall not apply to any overrun of the period within which the investigation must be completed;

5.3. 3.5.
declares this judgment to be provisionally enforceable,

5.4. 5.4.
compensates the costs and requires that each party shall bear its own costs,

5.5. 5.5.
denies any further or other claims.

This judgment was rendered by mr. RHC Jongeneel, judge, assisted by mr. PJ van Vliet, clerk, and pronounced in public on September 18 2013.

Content from External Source
 

MikeC

Closed Account
A search for "KLM TCP Cockpit Study" finds a few Dutch articles from eth end of 2013 apparently showing very low levels of TCP - eg this one:


Dutch scientific research institute TNO has only found very low levels of dangerous fumes in aircraft cockpits during flights, airline KLM said on Friday.



The institute was asked to investigate concentrations of TCP – a neuro toxin – in relation to a court case brought by a KLM pilot. He says he became ill by breathing in TCP which is found in cockpit air.

But TNO’s research found average TCP levels well below the permitted level and no traces of the most toxic type of the compound ToCP, KLM said on Friday.

20 flights

TNO conducted its research on 20 flights operated by nine different KLM Boeing 737s. The levels found were also much lower than those found in previous international studies, KLM said in a statement.

The airline described the results as ‘reassuring’.
Content from External Source
so it looks like that was the end of his crusade in this instance - the court ordered the tests, the tests were done, nothing was found.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Five days ago, Dane Wigington reprinted this excerpt from a recent article in ELUXE magazine:


Many of us have looked up to the sky and seen something a bit unusual these days: fat and thin white puffs in strange patterns. They kind of look like contrails, the vapor given off my planes. But they last much longer. And they spread out. And they seem to be in odd patterns….

These are not, in fact, contrails; rather, they’re “chemtrails,” a knock-off of the word “contrails.”
Contrails are trails of condensation that can be seen in the sky when a jet airplane is traveling at above 30,000 feet altitude, where the air is thinner and colder — very cold. Outside temperatures can dip to minus 60 F and the air is often full of minute ice crystals that hang suspended and invisible. When these ice crystals get sucked into a hot jet engine they turn into a gas, like steam, and can be seen as puffy white cloud-like lines that follow behind the jets. They usually dissipate and quickly fade away as the moisture once again returns to form invisible ice crystals.
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...eir-voice-heard-on-the-geoengineering-threat/
Content from External Source
Besides the fact that this incredibly wrong description of ordinary contrail formation was reprinted, I notice that even though Wigington included many internal links in his reprint, he deleted a link from the original ELUXE version to an accurate Wikipedia description of contrails

Here is the ELUXE version, note the link in the first paragraph:

Many of us have looked up to the sky and seen something a bit unusual these days: fat and thin white puffs in strange patterns. They kind of look like contrails, the vapour given off my planes. But they last much longer. And they spread out. And they seem to be in odd patterns….

These are not, in fact, contrails; rather, they’re “chemtrails,” a knock-off of the word “contrails.” Contrails are trails of condensation that can be seen in the sky when a jet airplane is traveling at above 30,000 feet altitude, where the air is thinner and colder — very cold. Outside temperatures can dip to minus 60 F and the air is often full of minute ice crystals that hang suspended and invisible. When these ice crystals get sucked into a hot jet engine they turn into a gas, like steam, and can be seen as puffy white cloud-like lines that follow behind the jets. They usually dissipate and quickly fade away as the moisture once again returns to form invisible ice crystals.
Content from External Source
http://eluxemagazine.com/magazine/dangers-of-chemtrails/#comment-443946

So, yet another example of what appears to be a deliberate omission and an inaccuracy by Dane Wigington.

If he had just published the inaccuracy it might have only appeared to be negligence or a lack of due diligence, but the deliberate omission of only that particular link which he realizes would be contradictory and accurately informative points towards yet another deliberate deception.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Outside temperatures can dip to minus 60 F and the air is often full of minute ice crystals that hang suspended and invisible. When these ice crystals get sucked into a hot jet engine they turn into a gas, like steam, and can be seen as puffy white cloud-like lines that follow behind the jets. They usually dissipate and quickly fade away as the moisture once again returns to form invisible ice crystals.
Content from External Source
That entirely backwards explanation sounds like the one given by Allan Buckman
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/08/chemtrail-whistleblower-allan-buckmann.html

I am a trained U.S. Air Force weather observer who worked in the military as an observer from 1960‐1964, serving mainly at Beale AFB, with a 3-month assignment at the Pacific Missile Range at Point Hueneme, Oxnard, California, working with NASA, RCA, and the U.S. Navy on the Tiros III weather satellite readout team. I am familiar with cloud observation, jet contrails, the military, and space-based weather information systems.

Contrails are by definition ‘condensation trails’ left by hot jet exhaust melting ice crystals which rapidly cool and refreeze and disappear. They do not stay in the sky and create clouds. A contrail is usually of low volume and extends some 2‐20 times the length of the aircraft. Exceptions occurred during WW II from large deployments of combustion engine bombers, but did not generally extend into the jet age.
Content from External Source
It's quite bizarre. An utter rejection of all known science, and pretty much a rejection of common sense. Ice crystals and water drops are visible. Water vapor is an invisible gas.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
I couldn't find any official ruling for the case, only that same link that states the court ordered testing. The case kinda runs dry after that.....from what I could(n't) find.
Court ordered testing ? where are the results ?
Kinda off-topic here, but I'm curious.

I have another post on Felderhof's and Dane's recent post, mostly pointing out that Felderhof's "whistle-blowing" is not related to geoengineering, nor is it anything that Dane believes in either.
https://www.metabunk.org/will-chemt...rotoxic-syndrome-bandwagon.t2100/#post-167216

Willem Felderof has a website...hard to find because he's calling himself "Juan Matus".
http://juanmatus.com/
(...but it's simply links to other articles, ....not even a "contact" or email link.)
"Don Juan Matus", is a reappearing character in several Castaneda books.
On Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/juan.matus47?fref=nf

JUAN.jpg

Ive got a friend that's a judge in the Netherlands.. granted its family court, but he might know where to go to find the ruling or he may know the judge that presided over the case.. I'll get back to ya as soon as I find anything.
 

tadaaa

Senior Member
An utter rejection of all known science.

the problem is Mick you are dealing with people who have zero knowledge of science - and I speak with some authority because I am describing myself - but luckily I do have a skeptic mind

if someone puts forward an extra ordinary claim, I demand extra ordinary proof - I am sceptical, but cognisant of my intellectual limitations (which is an eternal frustration, I would love to be able to follow your maths on various threads, but I simply can't :-(, but luckily I do know bullsh1t when I see/read it )

to most people water vapour and steam are one and the same

most people would say that what they see coming out of the kettle is water vapour

so when people say - look at the Aluminium content in the soil - most people do not realise Aluminium is the 3rd most abundant metal in the Earths crust

when people say - "look the sun is responsible for the observed warming" - it seems obvious, unchallenging, absurdly un-sceptical

YOU see the nonsense Mick, but a lot of people don't

I think the temptation is to judge people by your (high) critical/knowledgeable standards



arrgh - skeptic or sceptic !!!!! - which is the correct spelling
 
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David Fraser

Senior Member.
the problem is Mick you are dealing with people who have zero knowledge of science - and I speak with some authority because I am describing myself - but luckily I do have a skeptic mind

if someone puts forward an extra ordinary claim, I demand extra ordinary proof - I am sceptical, but cognisant of my intellectual limitations (which is an eternal frustration, I would love to be able to follow your maths on various threads, but I simply can't :-(, but luckily I do know bullsh1t when I see/read it )

to most people water vapour and steam are one and the same

most people would say that what they see coming out of the kettle is water vapour

so when people say - look at the Aluminium content in the soil - most people do not realise Aluminium is the 3rd most abundant metal in the Earths crust

when people say - "look the sun is responsible for the observed warming" - it seems obvious, unchallenging, absurdly un-sceptical

YOU see the nonsense Mick, but a lot of people don't

I think the temptation is to judge people by your (high) critical/knowledgeable standards



arrgh - skeptic or sceptic !!!!! - which is the correct spelling
But his experts do not have a zero knowledge of science, this is the issue that reinforces their belief. Mangels obviously has an understanding of science it is just he makes unsubstantiated claims.
 

tadaaa

Senior Member
sure, and that goes to the heart of this whole debacle

are the perpetrators of this anti science, anti knowledge agenda being wilfully mendacious and proselytising

after all converting the confused is easy
 
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tadaaa

Senior Member
further to my point above David, we must be mindful of the fact that just because we see the absurdity of these beliefs

it is not a given that everybody else does

I am not saying I know the answer - I feel as frustrated as we all do, at the celebration of ignorance that seems to pervade the current climate
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
the problem is Mick you are dealing with people who have zero knowledge of science - and I speak with some authority because I am describing myself - but luckily I do have a skeptic mind
yea, but in this case he was trained by the Air Force as a weather observer. Wouldnt that mean he knows at least a little something about clouds? and probably (i would hope) that engines combust and combustion produces water? I mean its the Air Force, knowing about planes is kinda their niche. no?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
But surely even someone who knows nothing about science would see that it is nonsense that "ice crystals are invisible and only become visible once they turn into a gas"? Maybe I am just being hopelessly over optimistic again...
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
But surely even someone who knows nothing about science would see that it is nonsense that "ice crystals are invisible and only become visible once they turn into a gas"? Maybe I am just being hopelessly over optimistic again...

I think, all along, people who believe Dane are mostly listening emotionally, not intellectually. They don't analyse what the words mean, they just go by the feeling being expressed.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think, all along, people who believe Dane are mostly listening emotionally, not intellectually. They don't analyse what the words mean, they just go by the feeling being expressed.

It's also a trust issue. Someone on Facebook told me that they don't understand the science behind "incredibly rare sun dogs", but they trust Patrick Roddie, and they don't trust me.

So to accept that I might be right seems like a betrayal of that trust, an insult to someone they respect.

It's a difficult thing to get past, which is why I try to keep things as neutral as possible in discussion, and try to show them neutral sources.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
To be fair, Mick: You're always typing stuff that forces me to think...Roddie is simply nicer to my inferior temporal gyrus.




Here's something Roddie wrote earlier this year:

"I collected rainwater in clean glass bowls on the roof of my San Francisco apartment building on April 5th, 2015, six thousand miles downwind from the nearest factory, power plant, refinery, freeway, quarry or mine."

It seems simple...straightforward, earnest...trustable. But I can't figure out the 6,000 miles part...
There's scarcely a spot in SF that is 6 miles from a freeway, never mind 6,000 (???)




p.s. I didn't see a Roddie thread...so I just put this here...
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
T
Here's something Roddie wrote earlier this year:

"I collected rainwater in clean glass bowls on the roof of my San Francisco apartment building on April 5th, 2015, six thousand miles downwind from the nearest factory, power plant, refinery, freeway, quarry or mine."

It seems simple...straightforward, earnest...trustable. But I can't figure out the 6,000 miles part...
There's scarcely a spot in SF that is 6 miles from a freeway, never mind 6,000 (???)

The keyword here is DOWNWIND. If Roddie lives near the coast and believes that the wind in his place is ALWAYS westerly, then 6,000 miles downwind is… China!;)
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
The keyword here is DOWNWIND. If Roddie lives near the coast and believes that the wind in his place is ALWAYS westerly, then 6,000 miles downwind is… China!;)
OMG! I...I...I'm speechless...


Okay, I should clarify: I lived in the Bay Area for years, and remember winds coming from all directions. Especially the so-called "Diablo winds" which come from the east
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_wind.

Today the wind is mostly from the northeast
Screen Shot 2015-10-24 at 1.01.26 PM.png

Here is the traditional wind pattern for January in SF.
Thus my reluctance to assume a constant westerly wind in SF.


Screen Shot 2015-10-24 at 12.59.33 PM.png

Now, to be fair, Roddie claims to have done his science experiment in April...
of course, we have no way of knowing whether he says that because it's true,
or if he knows that April is probably the month that the wind is most consistently westerly.


Screen Shot 2015-10-24 at 1.00.01 PM.png
At any rate, I'm still amused by the implication.

Sorry, back to the great Dane.
 
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MikeG

Senior Member.
It's completely widespread that anything having to do with Metabunk is not to be trusted. When you ask them to point out something wrong here, they usually just fall silent.

I ran across the "Metabunk is a site for disinformation agents" claim from a friend on Facebook. When I asked if she had ever visited Metabunk, that is exactly what I got: silence.

Hama Neggs' comment in #95 is spot on. Faith is what drives much of CT debate, particularly with respect to Wigington. Challenging faith is akin to challenging orthodoxy.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I ran across the "Metabunk is a site for disinformation agents" claim from a friend on Facebook. When I asked if she had ever visited Metabunk, that is exactly what I got: silence.

Ask her again. I like to press that sort of issue and not let them just toss out that claim and ignore challenges to it. "What are you basing that opinion on?" is a good question to ask.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
It is my experience that they usually they don't fall silent - they start shouting "shill" and "you're not seriously using metafail as a source are you" various other "insults!!
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
Ask her again. I like to press that sort of issue and not let them just toss out that claim and ignore challenges to it. "What are you basing that opinion on?" is a good question to ask.

That's fair.

In the past, I have actually spent a fair amount of time researching various claims, from chemtrails to Arctic methane, etc. The most recent is about Fukushima radiation. Then I ask her to engage the claims made by the various websites that provide this bunk.

Unfortunately, that is where the conversation breaks down. It seems that confirmation bias makes her threshold for credibility stay at about the "click bait" level of discourse. When I press, the goals posts move.

She is very good at the Gish Gallop, almost to the point where it sounds a lot like Dane Wigington.

I am not giving up. I am just beginning to realize just how long it might take.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I ran across the "Metabunk is a site for disinformation agents" claim from a friend on Facebook. When I asked if she had ever visited Metabunk, that is exactly what I got: silence.
well remember, if she is sharing bunk videos then giving a metabunk link can prevent the bunk from spreading. which is the most important thing. You could of course just gently mention that Metabunk is an open public forum..anyone can (and does) post here and if she disagrees with anyones post she can ask for more evidence (unlike other websites).

Women also like Snopes, so check snopes for debunks. Mixing up the debunk sources including NASA etc helps, if it is someone who just reshares alot of bunk.
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
I ran across the "Metabunk is a site for disinformation agents" claim from a friend on Facebook. When I asked if she had ever visited Metabunk, that is exactly what I got: silence.
A few times I've asked CT believers to come here and debate their 'evidence' or theories. None of them ever do.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
It's completely widespread that anything having to do with Metabunk is not to be trusted. When you ask them to point out something wrong here, they usually just fall silent.

I rarely link directly to metabunk anymore, unless I know the person is actually looking for the real information. I use the information that I learn here, and the sources that are used behind the debunks here. It's not as easy for them to shut you down immediately and scream "SHILL"
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
I rarely link directly to metabunk anymore, unless I know the person is actually looking for the real information. I use the information that I learn here, and the sources that are used behind the debunks here. It's not as easy for them to shut you down immediately and scream "SHILL"
You're a better man than I. :)

These days I will almost never invest any significant time in trying to bring someone around who has reached
the "I call everyone who doesn't agree with my CT a 'shill'" stage...it just seems like such a commitment,
with little chance of turning that ship around. Maybe I'm getting old, and mindful that I don't have enough
hours to waste addressing the truly vehement.
Have I mentioned, recently, the renumeration necessitated for a unit of unsliced bread, when I was in my tenth annum? :oops:
 

Lisa P

Active Member
A few times I've asked CT believers to come here and debate their 'evidence' or theories. None of them ever do.

From someone that was a chemtrail believer and loved a good argument that is waaay too scary an offer.

Once I found this place I did come here often to see what you all had to say and that helped a lot. I think one of the first things I read was the debate between Mick and Dane. I totally agreed with what Dane had to say but couldn't help but think how respectful and well mannered Mick was. I think it was a few months before I built up the courage to ask some questions but at that stage was starting to realise I was wrong. I was told by the chemtrail crowd not to associate with anyone from Metabunk and not to argue but I never listen if I am told what to do, reverse psychology works well with me!
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
That's fair.

In the past, I have actually spent a fair amount of time researching various claims, from chemtrails to Arctic methane, etc. The most recent is about Fukushima radiation. Then I ask her to engage the claims made by the various websites that provide this bunk.

Unfortunately, that is where the conversation breaks down. It seems that confirmation bias makes her threshold for credibility stay at about the "click bait" level of discourse. When I press, the goals posts move.

She is very good at the Gish Gallop, almost to the point where it sounds a lot like Dane Wigington.

I am not giving up. I am just beginning to realize just how long it might take.

The hardest thing is not to go for the Gish Gallop. It's soo tempting to respond to the new bunk they toss at you, because you know it's wrong too, But that never gets you anywhere. You HAVE to keep bringing the discussion back to the original point and keep them from changing the subject. As Mick has said, sometimes the best you can hope for is that they fall silent due to not knowing what else to say.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
well remember, if she is sharing bunk videos then giving a metabunk link can prevent the bunk from spreading. which is the most important thing. You could of course just gently mention that Metabunk is an open public forum..anyone can (and does) post here and if she disagrees with anyones post she can ask for more evidence (unlike other websites).

Women also like Snopes, so check snopes for debunks. Mixing up the debunk sources including NASA etc helps, if it is someone who just reshares alot of bunk.


I agree. Sometimes it is a matter of the messenger rather than the message. I will try recommending Snopes.


Alternatively, I also try to engage her over the original source of a claim.

Just this morning, she sent “Fluoride Officially Classified as a Neurotoxin in World’s Most Prestigious Medical Journal,” which cites the 2014 Lancet article as a source.

http://asheepnomore.net/2014/05/23/...eurotoxin-worlds-prestigious-medical-journal/

From what I have learned here on Metabunk and other reading, it is a typical “argument from authority” approach.


In response, I redirected her to the actual Lancet article.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3/fulltext

I recognize, as the study does, that high concentrations of any chemical are, by definition, toxic.

Then, I asked her to look at the article’s references to fluoride, which as it turns out, come from a study focused on China.

I then pointed out that China does not fluoridate its water supply. I noted that the most likely sources are natural (some areas of the world do have higher concentrations of fluoride in the water) and industrial (soft coal burning is apparently one main source).


Hopefully, this approach shifts the discussion from false correlations over to actual causation.

That is part of my methodology right now at least.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Hopefully, this approach shifts the discussion from false correlations over to actual causation.

That is part of my methodology right now at least.

I think it's good to at least TRY to get them to begin to suspect the motives or veracity of those who's stories they have been accepting as fact. In other words, after you show them that something going around the net is wrong, get them to look at the people who are repeating it.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
but interesting comment from Dane:

Hello Rosalie, my own mother has all but disowned me as she refuses to face reality. The same with my only brother. Don’t allow resistance from anyone to deter you from holding to the truth. All those that have so far chosen to remain asleep at the wheel will soon be forced to wake.
Content from External Source

It is so sad these people give up so much to maintain that belief.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I must say the comments on GEWatch are pretty discouraging...the same old myths and falsehoods that we have been attempting to correct for years:

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...onal-weather-service-and-noaa/#comment-122055


but interesting comment from Dane:

Hello Rosalie, my own mother has all but disowned me as she refuses to face reality. The same with my only brother. Don’t allow resistance from anyone to deter you from holding to the truth. All those that have so far chosen to remain asleep at the wheel will soon be forced to wake.
Content from External Source

In my experience with the Planet X hoax, people will put up with the "soon" prediction for YEARS, if you throw them an occasional tidbit to keep them interested.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
...interesting comment from Dane:

All those that have so far chosen to remain asleep at the wheel will soon be forced to wake.
Content from External Source

I kinda hoped so, for you (for quite a while), Dane. But you are one of the soundest sleepers I've ever encountered. :oops:
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
The new stuff ( bad) I see [] doesn't show up at all!
Content from External Source
huh??!!:rolleyes:

A lot of what Dane touts originated with Russ Tanner, including, as Dane says, that "short bright trails" are also "chemtrails". Tanner has been talking about non persistent trails being "chemtrails" for quite a while now. See here:

http://globalskywatch.com/stories/my-chemtrail-story/story/02-Summary.html#.VjHYN9KrQ1I

Interestingly, on a single day, all of the jet trails reverted to short trails that left no persisting plumes in the sky. Unfortunately, there was little change in the intensity of the symptoms or the tastes and odors in the air. The plumes had become short and non-persistent, but the frequency of these unmarked silver jets seemed to increase.
Content from External Source
And here: http://globalskywatch.com/stories/m...tion/the-great-contrail-con.html#.VjHcqdKrQ1I
Those spreading disinformation about chemtrails would like nothing more than for you to believe that short, non-persistent plumes coming out of jets are harmless contrails.
Content from External Source
They will tell you anything necessary to make you believe short trails are harmless.
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Beware of those who claim that short plumes emitted by aircraft are "contrails".
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Let me be clear: The trails had changed from persistent (long and lingering) to non-persistent (short and quickly dissipating).
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Amazingly, in April of 2009, in a single day, all of the trails changed from long, persistent trails to short, non-persistent trails.
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Just like Jamestown, the tastes and odors that occurred in the air during spraying after the change to short trails were identical to those before the length of the trails changed.
Content from External Source
Short, non-persistent chemtrails are everywhere.
Content from External Source
Second, they upgraded their equipment so spraying produced less-noticeableshort, non-persistent plumes.
Content from External Source
If you see a trail come out of a jet, long or short, persistent or non-persistent, you can be sure that it's a chemtrail.
Content from External Source
And here: http://globalskywatch.com/stories/m...l-information/plumes-change.html#.VjHhN9KrQ1J

In April 2010, chemtrails suddenly changed from large persistent plumes to very short, non-persistent plumes; the kind of plumes that some people believe are "contrails".
Content from External Source
 
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