Clouds over Mount Shasta - Dissipation Trail?

[deirdre]

Is there an investigation?

yes.

I have never changed the time stamp since I set it, the first time I set up the camera.

do you remember the month you bought the camera? or last changed any batteries that would mess with the time? I think we've all shown enough already the clouds have natural explanations and precedents, but if we want to try to narrow down the contrail cause, time kinda matters. I'm not dismissing the 8:30 possibility, but i can't dismiss the 9:30 possibility either. i'm also not dismissing 10:30 because depending on what month in what state you set the camera....

 

[Mkitz]

I've already addressed the contrail issue as physically impossible to be the cause of the vapor trail. A contrail has to long a duration and a shadow would have been present in multiple frames. Thank you, but the previous post suggested I could not have taken the pictures from my house, since did not line up properly with the mountain. i Posted a series of images this morning that shows structures in the lower oart of the frames appearing and disappearing. I have seen no response. There are patterns that I have shown that are unique and difficult to account for by wind currents. Let's move in from contrails, with all due respect. Thank you.

 

[deirdre]

Let's move in from contrails, with all due respect.

you want to move on from the main topic of the thread? hhmmm...

 

[deirdre]

I've already addressed the contrail issue as physically impossible to be the cause of the vapor trail.

because its not a vapour trail. so you do know that now. that's great!

I have seen no response.

because we've been responding to the same claims for days.

If you arent interested in providing the photos i am interested in, then i guess the convo has come to end. Good luck to you, and i do think you should post some of those to FLickr or another photo site as they are beautiful.

 

[Mkitz]

because its not a vapour trail. so you do know that now. that's great!


because we've been responding to the same claims for days.

If you arent interested in providing the photos i am interested in, then i guess the convo has come to end. Good luck to you, and i do think you should post some of those to FLickr or another photo site as they are beautiful.

If your the last word and speak for the moderator, I will move on. I appreciate your kind words for the photos. Regards.

 

[deirdre]

If your the last word

you can have the last word, but OUR convo has come to an end. As besides the photos i requested, i dont know what else to possibly add to OUR convo. Regards to you too

 

[Mendel]

If your the last word and speak for the moderator, I will move on.

Only the moderators speak for the moderators. The forum shows "staff member" under their profile picture.

 

[deirdre]

Only the moderators speak for the moderators. The forum shows "staff member" under their profile picture.

He knows that. His sentence was sarcastic.
He just blended my response to one of his questions, with my next paragraph which was me saying ciao. This is understandable, i should have added some more line spaces between the two thoughts or said "our" instead of "the".

he did though remind me of a blog i was looking at as he linked to it. that guy has cool photos too
https://hikemtshasta.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/cascades-mt.-shasta-oct2019-712-custom.jpg

 

[NorCal Dave]

Time stamps mean nothing to me, this is not a camera used for forensic investigations. Is there an investigation?

Well, yes. That's what we do here. Photography is one of your hobbies, trying to understand things presented here is ours and could be yours if you decide to stick around.

We sometimes obsess over details because clues may be hidden there.

In this case you're saying the vapor trail only lasted milliseconds based on the fact that it only appeared in 1 frame of the photo session. But you also said that you were taking photos every 15 seconds. As I pointed out above, that creates a 30 second window between 2 photos with no vapor trail, so less then milliseconds. Time enough for a contrail shadow? I don't know. You also said your engaged in prepping hair color chemicals when the photo session started. Was that a bigger priority then making sure a photo was taken exactly every 15 seconds? We don't know. Just trying to gather facts and understand the situation.

I don't think anyone is questioning your sincerity or honesty. We're just trying to investigate what was giving to us. It's our hobby.

 

[Mkitz]

Well, yes. That's what we do here. Photography is one of your hobbies, trying to understand things presented here is ours and could be yours if you decide to stick around.

We sometimes obsess over details because clues may be hidden there.

In this case you're saying the vapor trail only lasted milliseconds based on the fact that it only appeared in 1 frame of the photo session. But you also said that you were taking photos every 15 seconds. As I pointed out above, that creates a 30 second window between 2 photos with no vapor trail, so less then milliseconds. Time enough for a contrail shadow? I don't know. You also said your engaged in prepping hair color chemicals when the photo session started. Was that a bigger priority then making sure a photo was taken exactly every 15 seconds? We don't know. Just trying to gather facts and understand the situation.

I don't think anyone is questioning your sincerity or honesty. We're just trying to investigate what was giving to us. It's our hobby.

The time stamps are 9:31:36 and the next frame is 9:32:13. 37 seconds between frames. The time stamp is off by one hour, should read 8 a.m. and to 9 a.m. The hair prepping was done prior to beginning the photo session, but yes my wife is a very high priority, if you know what I mean.
I think the contrail shadow hypothesis is untenable. The idea that a jet flying at a steep, suicidal angle downward into the mountain, just happened to appear and cast a shadow is unrealistic. I contrail shadow would have visible 37 seconds later in the next frame and it is not. It just seems widely speculative. I saw an object and it made no noise and we know it would not be jet, since it would it put precariously next to the ridge. If it were a jet half a mile way from the mountain or away from the slopes of the mountain, the shadow caste would be quite wide. It is also interesting to note that most of the patterns under the laminar flow coincide with where the vapor trail is pointing into the mountain. so Any one can do a quick search on laminar flows, I posted four earlier, but they did not meet the posting requirements, however, there were no patterns between the laminar flow and the mountain. A pocket of below the laminar flow was free from the turbulence created by the laminar flow for two hours. The patterns rise upward and the laminar flow is running horizontally and it does not disrupt these upward patterns. Lenticular clouds may rotate slightly, but they do not transform their shape to the degree that was present that morning. I have posted those images above, from lenticular to a complete rotation and transformation and the extension of a tube like structure. How does the perfedly symmetrical tube like form emerge from. a rotating lenticular with all the turbulence present. The focus on the vapor trail is taking away from a discussion of kind dynamic forces in the wind can produce the complete rotation, tube an all the patterns? I find that just as interesting as the case of the so called vapor trail. Clouds can take on wonderful shapes, but what is causing a lenticular cloud to rotate when the laminar flow does not typical ly have that degree of rotation? What is shaping the various patterns below the laminar flow, is it just convection? Thank you for your continued interest.

 

[deirdre]

The idea that a jet flying at a steep, suicidal angle downward into the mountain, just happened to appear and cast a shadow

that is not at all how contrail shadows work. i earlier explained that the contrail casting the shadow can be many thousands of feet higher and way off to the side.

the fact that whatever it is, seems to be heading toward the mountain peak is a trick of perspective. which has also been pointed out to you multiple times.

I contrail shadow would have visible 37 seconds later in the next frame

unless you changed your camera settings. or a cloud between your lenticular and the contrail far away obscured the shadow. ideas that i also have already mentioned.

If it were a jet half a mile way from the mountain or away from the slopes of the mountain, the shadow caste would be quite wide.

then put the plane further away.

so Any one can do a quick search on laminar flows, I posted four earlier, but they did not meet the posting requirements, however, there were no patterns between the laminar flow and the mountain

we all can go out and find pics with no turbulence under the lenticular.

The patterns rise upward and the laminar flow is running horizontally and it does not disrupt these upward patterns.

based on videos of lenticulars forming, its because they were being absorbed by the lenticular.

Lenticular clouds may rotate slightly, but they do not transform their shape to the degree that was present that morning.

members have posted examples that they actually can.

The focus on the vapor trail is taking away from a discussion of kind dynamic forces in the wind can produce the complete rotation, tube an all the patterns? I find that just as interesting as the case of the so called vapor trail. Clouds can take on wonderful shapes, but what is causing a lenticular cloud to rotate when the laminar flow does not typical ly have that degree of rotation? What is shaping the various patterns below the laminar flow, is it just convection?

my pic above in #248 is a tube and "rotating".

if you want a blow by blow of what humidity and wind and thermal conditions need to occur for each 2 minutes of movement over 2 hours you might be better off posting on a cloud forum or meterologist site. (then link us so we can see what the "cloud experts" say). but for them to tell you all that you will need to find a site (like FLICKR or instagram) where you can upload your pics bigger. You will need to upload all the pics with timestamps included and exif data, so they can see the actual progression for themselves instead of you just picking and choosing what to share with us. <<not insulting you, i know the limitations of this site.

oh and upload the photos unmanipulated. meaning no sharpening, turning to black and white etc. the investigator can do all that themselves if they need the pattern sharpened for examination.

 

[NorCal Dave]

oh and upload the photos unmanipulated. meaning no sharpening, turning to black and white etc. the investigator can do all that themselves if they need the pattern sharpened for examination.

Yes please, I second this. Given some of the things said like here:

Since it was early morning, viewing the mountain and the clouds above revealed no details with the naked eye because of the brightness of the sun shining on the clouds.

Observing the cloud above the mountain from ground, it appeared as very shallow and almost insignificant. I was using a 600mm telephoto lens that makes the cloud seem much thicker. Again, anyone viewing the cloud above the mountain would have thought nothing of it, all detail was undetectable because of the brightness from the sun behind the mountain. Only shooting at 1/4000 of a second under high magnification revealed the changing patterns

Ok, first, no observer from the ground would think that the small band of clouds moving over the mountain were any great significance. As I said, I was shooting at 1/4000 of a second to compensate from the brightness in the clouds that made the detection of the patterns impossible. Even the hikers on the mountain would not have noticed the patterns because of the closeness and because of the brightness. That morning my interest was only to capture hikers, to see how much detail I could resolve with the new lens and camera.

And :

If this were an ordinary occurrence, surely some one would have captured it before.

Before we discuss supernatural causes, we need to establish that what you photographed is completely unprecedented, or just a unique combination of your camera setup and the B&W-high-contrast presentation of the photos.

In other words, we lack any sort of control for what your presenting to us as unprecedented. Do you have other pictures of lenticulars clouds with the same camera setup? If so, what do they look like when made B&W with boosted contrast? It may be that what you captured is perfectly natural, just nobody has photographed and presented it in the same way as you.

 

[Mkitz]

that is not at all how contrail shadows work. i earlier explained that the contrail casting the shadow can be many thousands of feet higher and way off to the side.

the fact that whatever it is, seems to be heading toward the mountain peak is a trick of perspective. which has also been pointed out to you multiple times.


unless you changed your camera settings. or a cloud between your lenticular and the contrail far away obscured the shadow. ideas that i also have already mentioned.


then put the plane further away.


we all can go out and find pics with no turbulence under the lenticular.


based on videos of lenticulars forming, its because they were being absorbed by the lenticular.


members have posted examples that they actually can.



my pic above in #248 is a tube and "rotating".

if you want a blow by blow of what humidity and wind and thermal conditions need to occur for each 2 minutes of movement over 2 hours you might be better off posting on a cloud forum or meterologist site. (then link us so we can see what the "cloud experts" say). but for them to tell you all that you will need to find a site (like FLICKR or instagram) where you can upload your pics bigger. You will need to upload all the pics with timestamps included and exif data, so they can see the actual progression for themselves instead of you just picking and choosing what to share with us. <<not insulting you, i know the limitations of this site.

oh and upload the photos unmanipulated. meaning no sharpening, turning to black and white etc. the investigator can do all that themselves if they need the pattern sharpened for examination.

Thank you, great suggestion. I did attempt to post on Cloud Appreciation site and all images were rejected. Not cloud like enough?

 

[Mkitz]

Yes please, I second this. Given some of the things said like here:






And :



Before we discuss supernatural causes, we need to establish that what you photographed is completely unprecedented, or just a unique combination of your camera setup and the B&W-high-contrast presentation of the photos.

In other words, we lack any sort of control for what your presenting to us as unprecedented. Do you have other pictures of lenticulars clouds with the same camera setup? If so, what do they look like when made B&W with boosted contrast? It may be that what you captured is perfectly natural, just nobody has photographed and presented it in the same way as you.

I do not specialize in cloud photography, so few lenticular cloud images. Deirdre posted images earlier of Kevin Lahey who specializes in Mt Shasta cloud formations. I nothing in his images that are the same. I wrote him a few days ago for comments of I my images, gave yet to hear back. if you look at the tube photo posted earlier, there is no rotation in tube that extends out.
I have asked for comments on how wind can carve these various patterns, have yet to hear a response. The lower image has an energy type quality, ionization? How does wind create that shape? Clouds do store a lot of energy, lightning.

Deirdre, Thank you, great suggestion. I did attempt to post on Cloud Appreciation site and all images were rejected. Not cloud like enough?

 

[deirdre]

Thank you, great suggestion. I did attempt to post on Cloud Appreciation site and all images were rejected. Not cloud like enough?

don't bring up spaceships. just ask what meteorologic conditions would produce such clouds, since that is what you are saying you want to know.

Clouds can take on wonderful shapes, but what is causing a lenticular cloud to rotate when the laminar flow does not typical ly have that degree of rotation?

 

[Mkitz]

don't bring up spaceships. just ask what meteorologic conditions would produce such clouds, since that is what you are saying you want to know.

Great advice, no spaceships. It appears no one has a response to the question as to how wind could form the images I posted or produce examples of this cloud behavior. Surely someone must have seen this somewhere.

 

[Ann K]

It appears no one has a response to the question as to how wind could form the images I posted or produce examples of this cloud behavior. Surely someone must have seen this somewhere.

I believe a number of people have taken the trouble to do exactly that, again and again and again on this thread, both pictorially and in diagrams of wind behavior, but you keep insisting yours are "different". Please, go back and look at the whole thread with an open mind.

 

[Mkitz]

Ann K, I have reviewed the examples presented and find them unconvincing, otherwise I would not have re-posted he question. I can assure you that mind is open, I am sorry that you think it is closed. I have four decades of experience as a scientist and teaching science, I am well aware of how biases can muddy perceptions. Thank you.

 

[AmberRobot]

Great advice, no spaceships. It appears no one has a response to the question as to how wind could form the images I posted or produce examples of this cloud behavior. Surely someone must have seen this somewhere.

Someone in the world may indeed have but they just don't happen to be a someone who is posting to this thread.

 

[Mkitz]

Someone in the world may indeed have but they just don't happen to be a someone who is posting to this thread.

AmberRobot, I reported what I saw and reported my impression that it was not likely to have been an aircraft. I did not say that I saw a spaceship. Had you witnessed what I saw, I think you would have been equally puzzled. Regards.

 

[deirdre]

Ann K, I have reviewed the examples presented and find them unconvincing

Then you can stop saying that noone has presented the data in this thread. at least be honest and say "noone has presented data in this thread that convinces ME"

 

[deirdre]

It appears no one has a response to the question as to how wind could form the images I posted

ps. you havent presented ANY explanation as to how a ufo could form the images you posted. ionization? what does that mean and how does that work?

 

[AmberRobot]

AmberRobot, I reported what I saw and reported my impression that it was not likely to have been an aircraft. I did not say that I saw a spaceship. Had you witnessed what I saw, I think you would have been equally puzzled. Regards.

I am not worried about the "spaceship" as I find that exceedingly unlikely to be the correct interpretation of what you claim to have seen. I'm focused more on the contention on your account that you saw something truly unique in the cloud behavior over the mountain. So, what I was saying was that somewhere someone may have seen something similar in the clouds over a mountain but just isn't participating in this thread. That the people here cannot provide evidence of similar behavior on other mountains that you personally find compelling is not proof that what you saw was unique.

 

[deirdre]

So, what I was saying was that somewhere someone may have seen something similar in the clouds over a mountain but just isn't participating in this thread

even if they did see the exact same shapes and transition schedule..wouldnt that just mean the aliens were over that mountain too?

of course if the aliens were real then we really should be seeing those exact same shapes and transition schedule periodically.

 

[Mkitz]

I am not worried about the "spaceship" as I find that exceedingly unlikely to be the correct interpretation of what you claim to have seen. I'm focused more on the contention on your account that you saw something truly unique in the cloud behavior over the mountain. So, what I was saying was that somewhere someone may have seen something similar in the clouds over a mountain but just isn't participating in this thread. That the people here cannot provide evidence of similar behavior on other mountains that you personally find compelling is not proof that what you saw was unique.

Couldn't agree more, Thank you,

 

[Mkitz]

even if they did see the exact same shapes and transition schedule..wouldnt that just mean the aliens were over that mountain too?

of course if the aliens were real then we really should be seeing those exact same shapes and transition schedule periodically.

Excellent point, I cannot speak for when aliens choose or do not choose to. make their presence known.

 

[deirdre]

Excellent point, I cannot speak for when aliens choose or do not choose to. make their presence known.

i thought for sure you would see my pic in post 248 and say "ah more proof of aliens!" because my pic is way weirder than any of yours.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/clouds-over-mount-shasta-dissipation-trail.12794/post-285276

 

[Mkitz]

i thought for sure you would see my pic in post 248 and say "ah more proof of aliens!" because my pic is way weirder than any of yours.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/clouds-over-mount-shasta-dissipation-trail.12794/post-285276

Welcome to the club

 

[deirdre]

Welcome to the club

i'm not in the club, sorry. as i said, when i joined Metabunk it was 4 years of nonstop Contrails Contrails Contrails, day in and day out. I know way more than a gal like me ever needs to know about vortices, sublimation, turbulence, condensation, aerodynamics, short wave/long wave, etc etc.. basically all the funky stuff that white bits in the sky do.

add: i should add that contrails ARE clouds, so you don't confuse my comment with the alleged contrail in your photo. i'm not talking about that.

 

[NorCal Dave]

@Mkitz, although I rarely check in on Facebook anymore, I did stumble upon a group yesterday called Siskiyou Shutterbugs. So, a page for photographers in the far North State with lots of Mt. Shasta activity. Might be a good place to share some of your photos and get some feedback.

 

[Mkitz]

That is great, thank you.

@Mkitz, although I rarely check in on Facebook anymore, I did stumble upon a group yesterday called Siskiyou Shutterbugs. So, a page for photographers in the far North State with lots of Mt. Shasta activity. Might be a good place to share some of your photos and get some feedback.

NCD,that is great. Thank you.

 

[Mkitz]

i'm not in the club, sorry. as i said, when i joined Metabunk it was 4 years of nonstop Contrails Contrails Contrails, day in and day out. I know way more than a gal like me ever needs to know about vortices, sublimation, turbulence, condensation, aerodynamics, short wave/long wave, etc etc.. basically all the funky stuff that white bits in the sky do.

add: i should add that contrails ARE clouds, so you don't confuse my comment with the alleged contrail in your photo. i'm not talking about that.

My attempt at humor, I don't expect to see you our next saucer head meeting