Claims of Advanced Tech Recovered from UFOs

[owntheissue]

But still, we're back to the same issue. He held this position for maybe 2 years:


So, like running AFRL, he may have known all the secrets, but so did a lot of people, including his predecessor and his replacement. What sets him apart from all the rest, is the DeLong emails and suggested ties to Duggin, bringing UFOs into the discussion.

You're probably aware of the types of tech. being name checked by credible sources around this time.
Nothing to do with UFO's (or ET, anti gravity or recoveries etc). but a few things that would be essential ingredients for wider game changing technology that might look like they came from Mellon's legally ambiguous "NHI"'s.

If anything had come of the CRADA, which had no monetary gain for TTSA, it would have shown TTSA was trafficking in stolen government assets. Like AAWSAP being the result of Bigelow knowing Reid, I suspect Elizondo had an old Army buddy that helped facilitate the CRADA for this piece of junk.

Again back to the point on legal grey areas.
TTSA sent CIA co-intel specialist Lue on a documented mission to retrieve the "junk" and this was then presented as "NHI in origin".

No idea where to start on the legality of this as presented by TTSA.
Would likely end up in some sort of maritime law based finders keeps argument.

I'm not sure what "terrestrial know how" from Justice you're referring to, but the CRADA involved one of Art's Parts

The bit where Justice (LM Skunkworks Advanced Systems VP/holder of 5 classified patents) implied we could (only using curent tech.) use an atomic deposition method to create a sub critical wave guide similar to the "Junk" from "1996" here at 35.55 onwards.

Im not aware of any supporting evidence from "Universities" that detail A: How you'd use atomic deposition to create a sub critical wave guide with the described "mass reduction" properties or B: How it would work on a metamaterial spaceship (or anything else) - to actually reduce mass.

Unless Justice is just making all this up (doesnt seem the type TBH) - the implication seems to be he possibly knows something we dont (and he cant tell us why).

If McCasland was an important person in the chain of information about (postulated) UFOs, might I suggest an alternative to the overly-dramatic action film scenario that the "bad guys" (however you define that) "disappeared" him?

The point is the evidence suggests he has nothing to do with UFO's - but lots to do with terrestrial technologies that could easily fall into the NHI finders keepers scenario.

If I were betting- your speculation (my sympathies for your late husband) is probably partially correct.
It wasn't necessarily the MiB that took McCasland- it might have been the compounding burden of maintaining "forbidden knowledge"' alongside his encroaching mental decline.

 

[jumbobob]

The point is the evidence suggests he has nothing to do with UFO's

I don't know about that, there is evidence to a degree:

1. He worked at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, which was the official government HQ for UFO investigations
2. The leaked emails/"working" with Tom DeLonge stuff (which might have been a ploy by McCasland)
3. This body cam interview of the lady that attended the Space Force dinner also referencing "UFO" stuff

Point 1 might be the only actual evidence.
Point 2/3 is kind of "claimed"

While the above is convenient, I doubt we'll see anything proving or disproving the stories.

I do find it interesting that there is absolutely no trace of him, I've read all the likely scenarios etc.
It would be kind of funny if he went in to hiding because of paranoia about the other dead and missing scientists/military personal, and turns up one day back at his house.

 

[NorCal Dave]

TTSA sent CIA co-intel specialist Lue on a documented mission to retrieve the "junk" and this was then presented as "NHI in origin".

No idea where to start on the legality of this as presented by TTSA.
Would likely end up in some sort of maritime law based finders keeps argument.

I don't want to get all off topic here, but some of TTSAs shenanigans, like the CRADA with the Army give fuel to the UFO angle with McCasland.

I don't think Elizondo was ever CIA to my knowledge and I'm not sure which piece of junk he retrieved. There is an unrelated story about someone in Ohio (or someplace like that) having a piece from the UK Rendelsham UFO that Elizondo was going to have a guy named McGowin(?) pick up and ferry to Phutoff in Texas for a TV show.

As for the actual piece of junk TTSA entered into the CRADA with, it is an unusual sample with layered bismuth and magnesium. It originally was sent to Art Bell, host of the fringy late night radio show, Coast to Coast AM from an anonymous source claiming in the afore mentioned letters, it came from the hull of the Roswell UFO. It was part of a collection of samples from the same source that were sent to Bell and became known as "Art's Parts".

He in turn passed it over to journalist Linda Moulton Howe and she spent years looking into it. Besides its unusual composition, there is the suggestion that it could either function as some sort of "wave guide" or levitate if enough current was passed through it. This latter claim is from Travis Taylor in the '90s before he was a TV star on credulous shows like Ancient Aliens and Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch. Speaking of which, Howe would occasionally show this sample to Georgio on episodes of Ancient Aliens, as she kept it after she became to fringy even for Coast to Coast AM.

It's convoluted, but at some point DeLong acquired this sample from Howe, and in grifter fashion, sold the sample to TTSA, his own company, for $35k. Presumably, if DeLong had paid anything out of pocket to Howe, he was going to have TTSA investors cover that bill. Likely with a tidy profit. Again, the hustler angle that makes skeptics just dismiss UFO people as hucksters.

This is undoubtedly the same piece, as Justice made clear in a press release about it:

The ownership of these assets, which were previously retained and studied by investigative journalist Linda Moulton Howe and are reported to have come from an advanced aerospace vehicle of unknown origin, allows TTSA to conduct rigorous scientific evaluations to determine its function and possible applications.

"The structure and composition of these materials are not from any known existing military or commercial application," says Steve Justice, current COO of To The Stars Academy and former head of Advanced Systems at Lockheed Martin's "Skunk Works." "They've been collected from sources with varying levels of chain-of-custody documentation, so we are focusing on verifiable facts and working to develop independent scientific proof of the materials' properties and attributes.

http://archive.is/VxZtZ

Justice's comment about "varying levels of chain-of-custody documentation" is comical at best. There was an SEC filing showing DeLong collected $35k from TTSA for it:

Dated September 29th, the financial documents include an asset purchase agreement related to the sale of "metal pieces." To the Stars Academy is listed as the "Buyer" and company CEO Thomas DeLonge is listed as the "Seller." The price is $35,000. The filings say that a physicist employed by To the Stars named Hal Puthoff is analyzing the metals.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvg...ic-metals-that-might-actually-just-be-bismuth
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1710274/000114420419046318/tv530141_ex6-22.htm

We know DeLong got it from Howe and we know Howe got it from Bell. That's where the "chain-of-custody" ends, because Bell just got the sample in the mail from an anonymous source, accompanied by a series of beyond silly, trope filled letters explaining the supposed origin.

Bottomed line, this piece of junk again illustrates the level of credulity and hustling so prevalent in the UFO community and certainly suggests DeLong's emails to Podesta regarding McCasland's involvement in TTSA may be overly exaggerated.

 

[FDSaussure]

Given that Tom Delong is allegedly worth tens of millions of dollars seems odd he'd be grifting for a few thousand in profit.

 

[Harabeck]

Given that Tom Delong is allegedly worth tens of millions of dollars seems odd he'd be grifting for a few thousand in profit.

He may not be doing it for profit. Maybe he genuinely thinks he's advocating for an important topic. Or it's fun. Or whatever.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Given that Tom Delong is allegedly worth tens of millions of dollars seems odd he'd be grifting for a few thousand in profit.

We can start a new thread, or continue in one more appropriate. But, TTSA functioned largely to funnel money to DeLonge, regardless of how much he was worth. TTSA, or more accurately TTS AAS, (To The Stars Acadamy of Arts and Science) was created by merging with one of DeLonge's entertainment companies, To The Stars. TTS was the entertainment division of TTSA and as such, TTSA owed royalties via a licensing agreement to Angles and Airwaves, another DeLonge company.

In addition, like TTS did previously, TTSA received loans, at 6%, from Out Two Dogs Inc. and was required, under the terms, to repay at least 10% of funds raised in the TTSA public offering, to Our Two Dogs. Two Dogs was supposedly a hotdog cart owned by DeLonge and headquartered at the offices of Louis Tommasino, CPA & Associates and Tommasino was the CFO of TTSA. Obviously there was no hotdog cart. It was a series of interrelated companies, many of which ultimately owed money to DeLonge.

Again, the relevance here, is that DeLonge was looking for investors, or more importantly prominent people to be involved with TTSA, to entice investors. He was likely trying to recruit McCasland while also using McCasland's name in efforts to recruit Podesda, thus possibly over stating McCasland's involvement with UFOs.

EDIT: As this thread is about McCasland, I didn't want to get bogged down in TTSA, other than to point out there were some financial backdoors involved that might have encouraged over-stating McCaslands involvement. So, I left out my sources, much of which is in other threads, for brevity. I'm also going to violate the no-click policy by providing sources for the claims about TTSA here for those who want to chase them down.

From @Robert Sheaffer blog, here is his account and other sources for the Our Two Dogs Inc. financial involvement with TTSA:

https://badufos.blogspot.com/2018/03/to-stars-or-to-dogs-case-of-missing-hot.html

UFO researcher Kieth Basterfield (who I believe is a member here, but uses an alias so I'll let him chime in) tracked down many of TTSA's SEC filings, which indicated things like TTSA having a licensing agreement with Angles and Airwaves:

https://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com/search/label/TTSA

 

[owntheissue]

I don't think Elizondo was ever CIA to my knowledge and I'm not sure which piece of junk he retrieved. There is an unrelated story about someone in Ohio (or someplace like that) having a piece from the UK Rendelsham UFO that Elizondo was going to have a guy named McGowin(?) pick up and ferry to Phutoff in Texas for a TV show.

I'll search out the TTSA CRADA thread for further discussion.
As a quick comment- perhaps I was (wrongly?) confusing these videos videos with the materials submitted for the CRADA.

Looks like Hal's combination safe was stuffed to the brim with materials TTSA had documented themselves collecting whilst establishing chains of custody.
Who knows what came from where?

Back to McCasland.
I can easily envisage a scenario where people like Mellon use ET UFO's as a stalking horse to try and out classified technology they would like to monetise.
People like McCasland and Justice are unlikely to respond to the offer of more money to publicly embarrass themselves- but they might be ideologically attached to the principle of not hiding science (and therefore the ends justifies the means).

On the flip side of that you have people rep'd by Su Gough who have a legitimate national security interest which involves ensuring such technologies are protected as per their classification.

The result is an internal faction battle where certain job roles could put you in faction crosshairs due to forbidden knowledge.

If we take one random hot potato from around the time of McCasland- "Air Force Pursues Anti Matter Weapons" and consider the conflicting interests if this technology became a reality today.

Do you further science and save the world by providing clean electricity (at a price *Mellonwink) or do you keep it buried so "Iran" (randomised enemy) cant turn Earth into a post Death Star Alderaan?

 

[Harabeck]

Back to McCasland.
I can easily envisage a scenario where people like Mellon use ET UFO's as a stalking horse to try and out classified technology they would like to monetise.
People like McCasland and Justice are unlikely to respond to the offer of more money to publicly embarrass themselves- but they might be ideologically attached to the principle of not hiding science (and therefore the ends justifies the means).

On the flip side of that you have people rep'd by Su Gough who have a legitimate national security interest which involves ensuring such technologies are protected as per their classification.

The result is an internal faction battle where certain job roles could put you in faction crosshairs due to forbidden knowledge.

If we take one random hot potato from around the time of McCasland- "Air Force Pursues Anti Matter Weapons" and consider the conflicting interests if this technology became a reality today.

Do you further science and save the world by providing clean electricity (at a price *Mellonwink) or do you keep it buried so "Iran" (randomised enemy) cant turn Earth into a post Death Star Alderaan?

I think that's a fun exercise in science fiction. To clarify, I both mean your comment, and the Air Force investigation into utilizing anti-matter.

To touch on the latter, we have just recently been able to transport antimatter at all. The penning trap is just small enough to fit through a door, and the amount of antimatter is so small, it's measured in number of individual particles.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...-with-a-load-of-antimatter-heres-how-it-went/

On Tuesday the physicists loaded 92 antiprotons—the antimatter version of protons—into a truck and drove them around for about an hour and a half.

...
"We wanted to build something that fits in the back of your car in the beginning," Smorra explains. "But then, when you start looking at the details, what you need to build this trap, then it becomes bigger and bigger." The final trap they designed—essentially a massive box—ended up weighing about a metric ton and had to be lifted with a crane.

That said, "we managed to build something slim enough to fit through a door," Smorra adds.

My overall point is this: Talking about people's motivations can already be very tricky. Adding fiction on top of that already put out there by UFO proponents is probably not productive from the perspective of scientific skepticism.

 

[John J.]

People like McCasland and Justice are unlikely to respond to the offer of more money to publicly embarrass themselves- but they might be ideologically attached to the principle of not hiding science (and therefore the ends justifies the means).

McCasland was the Commander of the Air Force Research Laboratory. It must be unlikely that he is ideologically attached to the principle of not hiding science, at least science/ technology developed by the USAF with possible defence significance.
The AFRL exists to give the USAF, and the US armed forces generally, a technological edge over potential adversaries, or at least to attempt to mitigate the potential threats posed by adversaries. This would not be achieved by being open about their research.

I don't think a hypothetical black hats v. white hats scenario is likely to have played any part in the disappearance of McCasland.

Do you further science and save the world by providing clean electricity...

Most of the energy released by matter: antimatter annihilation is ionizing radiation such as gamma rays (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter).

Antimatter is expensive. It is probably the most expensive material that can be produced at present; Wikipedia as above

in 1999, NASA gave a figure of $62.5 trillion per gram of antihydrogen.
... ...
According to CERN, it has cost a few hundred million Swiss francs [1CHF = 1.27 US$, 02 June 2026] to produce about 1 billionth of a gram (the amount used so far for particle/antiparticle collisions).

The AFRL is demonstrably competent. But it isn't the Los Alamos or Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, CERN or Fermilab.

 

[Eburacum]

Antimatter is not a source of energy. It is a very, very, very inefficient way of storing energy for future use; you put gigawatts into a reactor to make a few positrons, and get a few electronvolts in return. It certainly isn't a clean source of energy, since its most energetic product is deadly gamma rays, and the rest is useless neutrinos.

 

[NorCal Dave]

As a quick comment- perhaps I was (wrongly?) confusing these videos videos with the materials submitted for the CRADA.

Looks like Hal's combination safe was stuffed to the brim with materials TTSA had documented themselves collecting whilst establishing chains of custody.
Who knows what came from where?

But again, this is all marketing hype. The video you linked to (linked below as well) provides nothing. It's lots of random shots of Elizondo, Justice and Puthoff handling anonymous pieces in bubble wrap. Then they sit around the conference table and report back to DeLonge and Mellon. It's staged. They never actually show any supposed "meta-material". The one time something is out of the wrapper, they blur it:

The key bit of narration starts around 1:09:

1:09
say let's just follow the data and see where it goes it is a bit like a fine art dealer right you're always looking
1:17
for that lost Picasso chances are everybody comes to you and says I have a lost Picasso and it's probably someone's finger painting that
they did in high school but occasionally and rarely it only takes one time you find that Picasso it locked away in someone's attic or someone's basement
and they didn't know they had it my whole career was about solving really hard problems this is a hard problem

Translation, they didn't have anything. All that stuff they're cataloging and carefully wrapping and unwrapping is, at best, bits of junk people have sent them or they've collected, because there some sort of UFO story associated with it:

0:23
forming is key to me now we have multiple samples now from multiple
sources ranging a wide variety of integrity even if the material goes
nowhere people are beginning to provide us things well that is a more more brilliant than I thought what's

At worst, they are literally props. Just ordinary things wrapped up and supposedly cataloged for a marketing video. Regardless of what they actually believed, they were looking for investors.

That they entered the CRADA contract with the Army to study the bismuth and Magnesium sample from Art's Parts, is conclusive. Justice made that clear in the press release and AARO eventually ended up testing the same sample. It's provenance starts and ends with Art Bell's mail box.

All of this was for nothing eventually. Here is some of the core TTSA people when this video was made backing 2019 or 2020:

Mellon, Elizondo, Justice, DeLonge and Puthoff. Trying to convince people (investors) that they had, or soon would have, material from crashed UFOs and the technology from them. By February of 2021, their SEC filing said it was all done:

To achieve its goals, TTSA has decided to restructure its operations to scale back its initiatives in science and tech commercialization and to place a greater emphasis on the operations of its entertainment business.

Further, as part of the restructuring, Stephen Justice, TTSA's Chief Operations Officer, Luis Elizondo, TTSA's Director of Government Programs & Services, and Christopher Mellon, a member of TTSA's advisory board, are no longer with the company. To keep in sync with TTSA's public benefit mission of informed entertainment media, the company plans to keep its science advisory board, whose connections will influence TTSA's stories for film, and to add a board member with expertise in the film industry."

It started as an entertainment company and after flirting with some science, it went back to being an entertainment company.

Back to McCasland.
I can easily envisage a scenario where people like Mellon use ET UFO's as a stalking horse to try and out classified technology they would like to monetise.

How? Mellon left government, where he was mostly a staffer, back in 2006. I doubt he has any insights to "forbidding knowledge" as you called it, that he or TTSA could monetize. They haven't yet.

TTSA was always a lot of smoke and mirrors looking for investors. It only lasted 3 years. McCasland's name has become caught up in it due to a few leaked emails and never had much to do with it, but here we are.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1v44NM9ls

 

[MapperGuy]

As you point out - commanding the AFRL seems like a prestige post.

And probably a useful ticket into a post-military high paying job with some defense contractor or another.

 

[owntheissue]

How? Mellon left government, where he was mostly a staffer, back in 2006. I doubt he has any insights to "forbidding knowledge" as you called it, that he or TTSA could monetize. They haven't yet.

Mostly a staffer?

He was the top civilian intelligence official who was legally responsible for administering the process which runs SAPOC.
Primary citation is his wikipedia page and the gizmodo article it uses.

He served as the Special Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Policy then as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence which means he was tasked with auditing and managing the funding and authorisation pipelines that feed directly into the SAPOC as per the DoD guidelines.

Before any of this - he was the senior staffer for Cohen in the Nunn-Cohen amendment- which actually wrote the protocols on how the gang of 8 gets briefed on TS/SCI SAP's.

 

[Eburacum]

Despite this Mellon has not successfully demonstrated any advanced technology derived from NHIs, or produced any material of extraterrestrial origin, or even any convincing evidence of UAPs, since leaving office in 2006. Twenty years, no results. Not good.

 

[Gary C]

Mostly a staffer?

He was the top civilian intelligence official who was legally responsible for administering the process which runs SAPOC.
Primary citation is his wikipedia page and the gizmodo article it uses.

He served as the Special Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Policy then as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence which means he was tasked with auditing and managing the funding and authorisation pipelines that feed directly into the SAPOC as per the DoD guidelines.

Before any of this - he was the senior staffer for Cohen in the Nunn-Cohen amendment- which actually wrote the protocols on how the gang of 8 gets briefed on TS/SCI SAP's.

That position makes him a subject matter expert on the programs being pitched to the government, the funding status of the prime contractors for those that are getting congressional scrutiny, and the progress reports and milestones being reported back to Congress for those large programs that are drawing legislative interest either because they are burning money and the funding committee wants to cut them or because the contractors are concerned about being cut and have brought in lobbyists and political operatives to try and prevent that.

It does not make him a subject matter expert on the underlying physical or mathematical theories being employed or the feasibility of the technologies pitched as solutions. The latter usually only becomes apparent at the time of delivery or when successive milestones start getting missed.

FWIW the bleeding edge technology that was about to revolutionize the world in 2006 was nanobots. At least that was the pop-science hype at the time.

 

[RTM]

Despite this Mellon has not successfully demonstrated any advanced technology derived from NHIs, or produced any material of extraterrestrial origin, or even any convincing evidence of UAPs, since leaving office in 2006. Twenty years, no results. Not good.

Twenty years, another forty and he will have done a full Puthoff.

 

[owntheissue]

Despite this Mellon has not successfully demonstrated any advanced technology derived from NHIs, or produced any material of extraterrestrial origin, or even any convincing evidence of UAPs, since leaving office in 2006. Twenty years, no results. Not good.

Nothing to do with this discussion.
The claim was Mellon (and other credible ITK'ers like McCasland and Justice) are using NHI UFO's as a stalking horse for outing classified terrestrial tech.

If the ET narrative is a stalking horse, then by definition, there should be no real evidence of NHI's.

If you can comprehend- would you mind sharing your speculative theory about why people like Mellon, McCasland and Justice are even involved with this subject if it's not about terrestrial tech.

 

[Andreas]

Translation, they didn't have anything. All that stuff they're cataloging and carefully wrapping and unwrapping is, at best, bits of junk people have sent them or they've collected, because there some sort of UFO story associated with it:

In Sweden, we have the quite impressive Archives for the Unexplained (AFU), which collects not only books and files from around the world but also all kinds of objects associated with different "unexplained phenomena." Among their 1.5 kilometers of shelving, they house a large number of "artifacts" collected by contactees and witnesses who have claimed that these objects originated from alien spacecraft. (I don't think I need to point out that most of these items have been thoroughly studied and found to have a rather terrestrial origin.) But AFU collects them for the right reason: to preserve these historical artifacts, make them accessible to the public, and safeguard modern folklore for future generations.

In that context, it's kind of sweet that Elizondo and his associates are trying to collect similar material, arguing that it is important for science. In reality, however, they will end up with exactly the same kind of items that are already publicly available at AFU—fascinating to look at for anyone interested in the UFO subject, but ultimately useless for scientific research.

If you can comprehend- would you mind sharing your speculative theory about why people like Mellon, McCasland and Justice are even involved with this subject if it's not about terrestrial tech.

I mean, people in government—as well as military personnel, scientists, and journalists—are just people, and sometimes they believe in all kinds of strange things. Some believe in aliens, others in ghosts, and a few think "chemtrails" are real. And some have realized that belief in UAPs can be monetized.

 

[Gary C]

Nothing to do with this discussion.
The claim was Mellon (and other credible ITK'ers like McCasland and Justice) are using NHI UFO's as a stalking horse for outing classified terrestrial tech.

If the ET narrative is a stalking horse, then by definition, there should be no real evidence of NHI's.

If you can comprehend- would you mind sharing your speculative theory about why people like Mellon, McCasland and Justice are even involved with this subject if it's not about terrestrial tech.

1. McClasland has not been demonstrated as having any involvement with UFOs, NHIs, UAPs, ETs, etc. That continues to be entirely speculative on the part of the believers and grifters.

2. You're asking us to speculate as to the motives of someone else's speculation? See above.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Nothing to do with this discussion.
The claim was Mellon (and other credible ITK'ers like McCasland and Justice) are using NHI UFO's as a stalking horse for outing classified terrestrial tech.

Maybe @Mick West or @Landru can move these last few posts over to a different thread like the one on Meta materials or wherever it might fit. The idea that all this talk of crashed UFOs may be "stalking horses" for real classified technology is interesting,and maybe warrens further discussion, but it's pretty tangential to McCasland's overall situation.