Claim: UFO's May Be Stealth Aliens Living in Caves, on the Dark Side of the Moon or Alaska

[jdog]

Mind you, these are also the authors of From Angels to Aliens: Humankind's Ongoing Encounters with, and Evolving Interpretations of, the Genuine Celestial Unknown, as published in Zygon: Journal of Religion and Science:

Throughout history, people have observed aerial events that appeared extraordinary and anomalous. In earlier eras, these were often interpreted through a lens that invoked special classes of divine beings, such as angels (who, compared with gods, are regarded as more likely to interact with humans). Today, in our ostensibly secular scientific age, there is a tendency to assume such observers were mistaken, and that with the benefit of modern knowledge, these events can be "debunked" and attributed to conventional naturalistic explanations. However, recent years have seen a burgeoning interest and even concern over the issue of unidentified aerial phenomena. Through the lens of our "space age," these are sometimes interpreted using notions such as extraterrestrial agents. Ultimately though, this article suggests that both categories of explanation, from angels to aliens, may be the perennial human quest to render comprehensible, through the prism of prevailing beliefs and traditions, an ongoing encounter with celestial phenomena that remain genuinely unknown but deeply significant.

Welcome to Zygon: Journal of Religion and Science. Published since 1966, Zygon is dedicated to the manifold interactions between the sciences and human religious and moral convictions. We seek to consider the whole range of the sciences; cosmology and physics, biology and the neurosciences, sociology, psychology, and anthropology. We seek to be open to religious and non-religious perspectives, those rooted in the great traditions such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, but also to religious naturalism, secular humanism, and atheism, both variants at home in the Western world and versions elsewhere on our globe. We cover ideas (theories, theologies) as well as practices. We address ethical issues and analyze the history of the differentiation between science and religion and their subsequent interactions.

"The word zygon means the yoking of two entities or processes that must work together."

 

[John J.]

ResearchGate isn't a journal itself, but a place to share papers that haven't been published (at least not yet)

Oh, no problems as such with Research Gate.

But the Journal that published "The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis: A case for scientific openness to a concealed earthly explanation for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena" is Philosophy and Cosmology, website here http://ispcjournal.org/

If they're prepared to publish Gish-gallops of unreason, wishful thinking and misinformation like "The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis" the journal as a whole, and its editors and reviewers, should be judged accordingly.

The authors of the paper are Tim Lomas (Harvard University), Brendan Case (Harvard University) and Michael Paul Masters (Montana Tech of the University of Montana).

Let's have a quick look at Philosophy and Cosmology's Editorial Board, from their website http://ispcjournal.org/editorial-board/,

What an extraordinary coincidence; the journal that chooses to publish Tim Lomas, Brendan Case and Michael Master's, um, alternatively-reasoned paper happens to have Tim Lomas and Brendan Case on its editorial board.

This must be a coincidence, and it certainly can't be taken as evidence that either (1) some other members of the board are credulous dupes whose understanding of contemporary philosophy and cosmology is so tenuous that they didn't recognize the negative value of "The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis..." as an academic paper, or (2) some members of the editorial board are collaborating in publishing their colleague's work which might not get published in a journal designed to increase knowledge in its sphere of interest, making use of a credible peer review process the hidebound "traditional" journals, wedded as they are to deeply Western-centric notions of objective reality, cause and effect, scientific methodology and syntax.

We know this because Philosophy and Cosmology's website tells us

All submissions are subjected to double-blind peer review.

I'm sure that they mean "blinded" to the identity of a paper's author(s), even if in this case it does look a bit like
"wilfully blind to the lack of merit in a paper co-authored by two members of our own editorial board."

Significant edit: I had somehow overlooked Case's membership of Philosophy and Cosmology's Editorial Board in the first version of this post. Not, of course, that this would have had any bearing on Philosophy and Cosmology's decision to publish a junk convention-challenging paper written by two members of their board.

 

[John J.]

...publishing their colleague's work which might not get published in the hidebound "traditional" journals, wedded as they are to deeply Western-centric notions of objective reality, cause and effect, scientific methodology and syntax.

Don't you just live it when your own rants turn out to have real-world validity?

Just found this on the staff page of Harvard's Human Flourishing Program website https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/our-people:

Dr. Lomas's research mainly focuses on cross-cultural perspectives on well-being, and especially on concepts and practices deemed 'non-Western.'

 

[jdog]

Oh, no problems as such with Research Gate.

But the Journal that published "The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis: A case for scientific openness to a concealed earthly explanation for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena" is Philosophy and Cosmology, website here http://ispcjournal.org/

If they're prepared to publish Gish-gallops of unreason, wishful thinking and misinformation like "The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis" the journal as a whole, and its editors and reviewers, should be judged accordingly.

The authors of the paper are Tim Lomas (Harvard University), Brendan Case (Harvard University) and Michael Paul Masters (Montana Tech of the University of Montana).

Let's have a quick look at Philosophy and Cosmology's Editorial Board, from their website http://ispcjournal.org/editorial-board/,

View attachment 69254 View attachment 69256

What an extraordinary coincidence; the journal that chooses to publish Tim Lomas, Brendan Case and Michael Master's, um, alternatively-reasoned paper happens to have Tim Lomas and Brendan Case on its editorial board.

This must be a coincidence, and it certainly can't be taken as evidence that either (1) some other members of the board are credulous dupes whose understanding of contemporary philosophy and cosmology is so tenuous that they didn't recognize the negative value of "The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis..." as an academic paper, or (2) some members of the editorial board are collaborating in publishing their colleague's work which might not get published in a journal designed to increase knowledge in its sphere of interest, making use of a credible peer review process the hidebound "traditional" journals, wedded as they are to deeply Western-centric notions of objective reality, cause and effect, scientific methodology and syntax.

We know this because Philosophy and Cosmology's website tells us

All submissions are subjected to double-blind peer review.

I'm sure that they mean "blinded" to the identity of a paper's author(s), even if in this case it does look a bit like
"wilfully blind to the lack of merit in a paper co-authored by a member of our own editorial board."

Significant edit: I had somehow overlooked Case's membership of Philosophy and Cosmology's Editorial Board in the first version of this post.

Interesting. All the articles I could find -- and Google itself -- linked to the ResearchGate version of the paper, which as noted is now a dead link.

I don't have any problems with people writing such a paper. I do have a problem with them expecting to be taken seriously.

 

[Ann K]

At first glance that seems like a lot of people to go missing in a place where there aren't a lot of people. The date is a bit vague but if we go with 1970 to 2020 that's 50 years and around 400 disappearances per year. Still seems a little high, but maybe not. If a large number of non-residents travel to a remote part of the state to hike, hunt or recreate and get lost, they may never be found.

Bear in mind that outside of towns, Alaska is virtually roadless. Almost all travel is done by air, which suggests that (1) misidentification of a plane may lead to "UAP" reports, and (2) disappearing in a crash in an almost-inaccessible spot is not at all unlikely. I have heard of a pilot who simply followed the wrong valley (in a place where it's hard to tell one river from another) until he ran out of gas.

Similarly, in a part of the country where one Appalachian ridge looks very like another, Davy Crockett was reputed to have said that he was never "lost", but he had been confused for weeks at a time.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Bear in mind that outside of towns, Alaska is virtually roadless. Almost all travel is done by air, which suggests that (1) misidentification of a plane may lead to "UAP" reports, and (2) disappearing in a crash in an almost-inaccessible spot is not at all unlikely. I have heard of a pilot who simply followed the wrong valley (in a place where it's hard to tell one river from another) until he ran out of gas.

Yeah, like Flight 19 in 1945 sort of starts the Bermuda Triangle, the loss of Speaker of the House Hale Boggs (D, Louisiana) and representative Nick Begich (D, Alaska) who were on a flight that disappeared between Juno and Anchorage in October 1972 gets the story going. No wreckage was ever found. That is usually the start of the Alaska Triangle myth.

I still can't find a reputable source for the 20,000 missing people.

 

[Mendel]

Yeah, like Flight 19 in 1945 sort of starts the Bermuda Triangle,

even though it is quite explainable

 

[FatPhil]

My take is that the term "pre-diluvial" was chosen because they wanted to be clear to a poorly-educated audience who can't distinguish between "ante-" and "anti-".

"Sign me up for anti-natal classes!"

 

[Mendel]

"Sign me up for anti-natal classes!"

Apparently, Americans don't trust their fellow citizens with "ante-natal":

Article:

Antenatal is more commonly used in British English, prenatal in American English.

Source: https://www.italki.com/de/post/question-259167

I took an umbrella because I anticipated precipitation.

 

[Mendel]

Let's go for the magical hypothesis:
• MH1: there's a secret society of human wizards and witches that is responsible for these unexplained mysteries.
"Evidence" can be found galore in traditional folktales.

From another thread:

/Rare Exports/?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/

In the depths of the Korvatunturi mountains, 486 meters deep, lies the closest ever guarded secret of Christmas. The time has come to dig it up. This Christmas everyone will believe in Santa Claus.

Metacritic says the Finnish one's better

• MH2: It's Santa Claus.

Reasoning: you can't prove he doesn't exist; and to be able to gift millions of children in a single night, he clearly knows something about the laws of physics that we don't. GIMBAL shows his sleigh on a test ride. The white color of Tic Tacs is due to snow and ice. Note that the 3 unidentified UAP last year were encountered up North.

 

[FatPhil]

Apparently, Americans don't trust their fellow citizens with "ante-natal":

Article:

Antenatal is more commonly used in British English, prenatal in American English.

Source: https://www.italki.com/de/post/question-259167

I took an umbrella because I anticipated precipitation.

Side note: the quote marks were because I was quoting my g/f. We're childfree.

Well done on the "ante"-meaning "anti"-spelling find, there aren't that many. "Antique" has the same root too, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[John J.]

Interesting. All the articles I could find -- and Google itself -- linked to the ResearchGate version of the paper, which as noted is now a dead link.

Here you go, courtesy of Wayback Machine, dated 12 June 2024 -the full text is viewable.

The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis: A case for scientific openness to a concealed earthly explanation for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena
June 2024 Philosophy and Cosmology 33

https://web.archive.org/web/2024061...lanation_for_Unidentified_Anomalous_Phenomena

You had me worried for a bit @jdog- I wondered if I had confused Tim Lomas' earlier paper The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis: A Case for Scientific Openness to an Interstellar Explanation for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (abstract; link to full text http://ispcjournal.org/journals/2024/32/PhC_vol_32_Lomas.pdf) with the current one
(The cryptoterrestrial hypothesis...)

Lomas' The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis... was published in Philosophy and Cosmology Vol. 32 (February 2024).

 

[NorCal Dave]

Just copying something @Giddierone had posted on the related pareidolia thread, show how viral this paper is going. I know I saw it 3 differnt times on my own news feed this morning:

Of course, Joe Rogan is talking about it too. I thought it was an odd little paper for a bunch of insiders, but clearly, it's hit a nerve with the media. I guess that makes sense, as it's repackaging ideas that go back to at least Lovecraft, as noted upstream, and are a prominent part of ScyFy from Invasion of the Body Snatchers, The Outer Limits, The Twilight Zone on up to David Ike and QAnon's secretly hidden lizard alien elites.

It's an old trope with a new veneer of Hava'd Academic legitimacy. As noted before, their main argument seems to use the old adage of "Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence" as a reason to consider the mountains of shit they throw at the wall all of equal evidentiary weight.

There is a whole section of how old the Earth is, meaning there was plenty of time for other intelligent species to have evolved and created civilizations and they may be here living with us now. They then make the same argument they use for most of the paper:

There is NO evidence for other intelligent species evolving earlier in Earth's history BUT there is NO evidence that one did NOT, therefore both possibilities are just as likely. And since we're trying to explain UAP and modern humans don't explain them, then the non-evidenced other intelligent species that might have evolved on Earth millions of years ago is actually more likely because it helps explain UAPs. Round and round.

Now that it's all over the media, I'll keep digging into it, time permitting.

 

[RTM]

Harvard "Researchers", as shown throughout the thread this should be referred to by what it really is: speculative fiction.

 

[jdog]

Just copying something @Giddierone had posted on the related pareidolia thread, show how viral this paper is going. I know I saw it 3 differnt times on my own news feed this morning:

View attachment 69267
View attachment 69268

Of course, Joe Rogan is talking about it too. I thought it was an odd little paper for a bunch of insiders, but clearly, it's hit a nerve with the media. I guess that makes sense, as it's repackaging ideas that go back to at least Lovecraft, as noted upstream, and are a prominent part of ScyFy from Invasion of the Body Snatchers, The Outer Limits, The Twilight Zone on up to David Ike and QAnon's secretly hidden lizard alien elites.

It's an old trope with a new veneer of Hava'd Academic legitimacy. As noted before, their main argument seems to use the old adage of "Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence" as a reason to consider the mountains of shit they throw at the wall all of equal evidentiary weight.

There is a whole section of how old the Earth is, meaning there was plenty of time for other intelligent species to have evolved and created civilizations and they may be here living with us now. They then make the same argument they use for most of the paper:

There is NO evidence for other intelligent species evolving earlier in Earth's history BUT there is NO evidence that one did NOT, therefore both possibilities are just as likely. And since we're trying to explain UAP and modern humans don't explain them, then the non-evidenced other intelligent species that might have evolved on Earth millions of years ago is actually more likely because it helps explain UAPs. Round and round.

Now that it's all over the media, I'll keep digging into it, time permitting.

Who among us can guarantee there are no Nazis lurking in the moon?

 

[Calter]

It's sad to see misinformation spread in real time. Multiple articles made by people that have no knowledge on relevant subjects about a poorly made paper, all riding on "Harvard researchers".

It doesn't matter that the paper is just a recap of "top 4 most common stories about aliens hiding among us", it doesn't matter that the paper itself even states in their own conclusion that crypto terrestrials are an extremely unlikely possibility, what matters is that someone from a very prestigious university said something that could be turned into clickbait.

 

[Edward Current]

It's sad to see misinformation spread in real time. Multiple articles made by people that have no knowledge on relevant subjects about a poorly made paper, all riding on "Harvard researchers".

What really chaps my hide is that news outlets are calling this a "study," and even a "Harvard University study," as if it's on par with a vaccine trial. This is actually dangerous.

 

[Calter]

Took me a while to find them, but relevant xkcd (1) (2)

 

[Mendel]

Who among us can guarantee there are no Nazis lurking in the moon?

I guarantee it.

 

[Mendel]

There is NO evidence for other intelligent species evolving earlier in Earth's history BUT there is NO evidence that one did NOT, therefore both possibilities are just as likely.

You really should indicate that this is a paraphrase.

The analogy is that, when faced with two toddlers and an empty nutella jar, there is no evidence that the clean toddler didn't do it, but you're still going to scold the one with chocolate stains on her face.

There's a marked imbalance in the likelihood of either possibility.
One happened, the other did not.

 

[MonkeeSage]

A new article by Níall Feiritear in the Irish newspaper Sunday World discusses Garry Nolan endorsing a theory that orb UAP are part of a defense system to protect humans, and cites the cryptoterrestrial paper as supporting evidence.

Stanford Professor says Irish man's UAP global defence theory needs to be investigated - All quotes are from this article.

In June 2023, the Sunday World newspaper published the exclusive story of Patrick Jackson, an Irish man who lives in Cambridge.

Patrick had spent 20 years studying the sphere UFOs seen by many in the skies, something which was also grudgingly admitted by the Pentagon last year.

"I have been talking to Patrick for over a year now and was among the first to try to get him out there. I think there's something worth investigating," Professor Nolan wrote at the weekend.

The Nobel Prize nominee commented further on Patrick's theory, which essentially states that sphere UAP provide a planetary defence, acting as a protection for humans.

I won't get into detail about Jackson's claims as it would be off topic for this thread but here is the previous article mentioned above that goes into them.

Nolan appears to be generally endorsing Jackson's idea.

"I am deeply aware of the situation. I find the results and general observations compellingly worth trying to understand," Professor Nolan continued.

"Sets of spheres seen in photos that were 'unnoticed' over decades. Who would know to 'hoax' them repeatedly until Patrick noticed them? Full credit to him."

Now here is were it is relevant to this thread, Patrick appeals to the CTH paper.

Speaking again exclusively to the Sunday World, Patrick said [...] "This suggests that whoever built [the sphere network] is still around and maintaining it - a second species. Harvard researchers suggest aliens may live among us."

Indeed a Harvard study released in early June stated: "UAP have been reported in various forms, including spheres, discs, triangles, and other shapes, ranging in size from small orbs to large craft.

"Many exhibit flight patterns and manoeuvres that defy conventional aerodynamics, such as sudden changes in direction, high speeds, and the ability to hover without apparent propulsion systems.

"...This is the 'cryptoterrestrial' hypothesis, namely the notion that UAP may reflect activities of intelligent beings concealed in stealth here on Earth (e.g., underground), and/or its near environs (e.g., the moon), and/or even "walking among us" (e.g., passing as humans)."

The first two quoted sentences do not appear in the CTH paper, but they are accurate paraphrases of two similar sentences. The problem, as has been noted previous in this thread, is the CTH paper is just quoting people like Garry Nolan (cited multiple times) as a basis for the CTH. From the CTH paper:

Thus, not only should the CTH not be summarily ruled out, we argue it should be explicitly given due consideration. Epistemologically, the rationale is similar to Nolan's remark about "leaving open the idea that it's some form of consciousness that is non-material"; even if
the CTH also "sounds absolutely crazy," people are seemingly becoming compelled to take it seriously.

So we essentially just have circular reporting here with fancy college names thrown in to give an air of authority. Nolan is cited to support CTH paper, CTH paper is cited to support Nolan's endorsement of Jackson's ideas.

And then to no one's surprise, alleged events at Skinwalker Ranch, with a reference to BAASS/AAWSAP, are cited as support by Jackson.

Patrick provided the Sunday World with further imagery of the spheres he and his colleagues have reportedly been able to observe and categorize.

"On the left is the Type3 Sphere at my research location, and on the right is the Type3 Sphere at Skinwalker. It's the same phenomenon occurring worldwide. I can trigger the AI to carry out scarecrow actions."

Skinwalker Ranch in Utah is a location where many sphere UAP were reported during a Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) study. [...]

"30 East Drive (Building in Yorkshire), houses a small Type3 Sphere," Patrick continued.

"Due to the house's limited space, the sphere's movement is restricted, making it relatively easy to locate through its emissions.

"Anyone with a basic understanding of network communications will recognize the light patterns as data transmissions.

"This is one of our tests. Just weeks ago a 1.6GHz signal was detected burst relaying at 30 East Drive, the site of the notorious poltergeist in the UK.

"This same frequency, also found at Skinwalker Ranch, is present in so-called haunted buildings worldwide," Patrick added.

So it's all just the same sources being recycled and referencing each other.

The timing of the article fits the hypothesis that there's a concerted effort to make the UAP topic appear more academically mainstream. Nolan is currently a Board member of the recently established UAP Disclosure Fund lobbying organization.

A bit off topic here but the article also just ends with a random tangent from Nolan about how private groups, which are apparently armed, are being set up to retrieve crashed UAP before the government gets to them. Aye yi yi.

Professor Nolan said this week that plans are underway to retrieve UAP for the public's benefit.

"There's one legal way, which is to go out and look for the evidence ourselves. The stuff that is claimed to be obtained is in the possession of the Government because they got there first," he said.

"We have an amazing detection system, satellites that were spent billions of dollars putting up; when stuff goes awry, they get there first.

"There are operations being set up to make parallel retrieval teams that have nothing to do with the Government, to get there first.

"And hopefully not engage in a firefight," he concluded.

 

[FatPhil]

"I have been talking to Patrick for over a year now and was among the first to try to get him out there. I think there's something worth investigating," Professor Nolan wrote at the weekend.

The Nobel Prize nominee commented further on Patrick's theory, which essentially states that sphere UAP provide a planetary defence, acting as a protection for humans.

Curious...

Nomination archive
Search for persons

List people/organizations whose name contain:
[Nolan ]

and whose gender is:
[x] Any
[ ] Male
[ ] Female

Search result for "Nolan":
Nolan, John J

Note that if you search for gender, you search among the subset of nominations that contain this information. See the manual for more information

-- https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/archive/search_people.php

(Note, I had to "paint" a few of the fields in manually, they didn't copy/paste. I guess I could have screenshotted, but you trust me, right?)


EDIT:
Apparently I'm not the first to have noticed the label being applied to him, but ...

Update: Today I Learned that the nominees are kept off this search for 50 years. I didn't know that. So that makes this link useless in this context. Sorry.

--
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/UAP/comments/xw35jo/garry_nolan_and_the_nobel_prize_wheres_the/?rdt=58183

 

[NorCal Dave]

So we essentially just have circular reporting here with fancy college names thrown in to give an air of authority. Nolan is cited to support CTH paper, CTH paper is cited to support Nolan's endorsement of Jackson's ideas.

Absolutely! And we can throw in the thread about Nolan endorsing a "shadow biome" in this thread:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ga...idence-of-shadow-biosphere.13511/#post-317544

The "shadow biome" also shows up in the Crypto Terrestrial paper, so a whole lot of cross referencing:

Moreover, our epistemological humility ought to extend to biology too, as argued by Davies et al. (2009) in a paper on the potential for Earth to host a "shadow biosphere" (or "shadow biome") involving forms of "weird life … whose biochemistry is so nonstandard that it would not be detected by life-detection tools targeted at standard terran biochemistry." This kind of idea has sometimes been known as the "paraphysical" hypothesis, which essentially denotes forms of life that are physical but are usually undetected and unknown to us17. Here one might note that although Davies et al. were generally referring to a shadow biome on a molecular level, there has recently been speculation with regard to larger life forms, as seen for example in relation to a strange airborne "jellyfish" UAP reported by Corbell (2024).

Total speculation on my part but note also the citation for "Corbell (2024)". He's actually cited twice in the main body of the paper and twice more in the notes. That's 4 citations in a Harvard associated paper for a fashion designer turned UFO hunter that still thinks Bob Lazar has element 115 sitting out in his garage. These aren't citations to scholarly academic works, rather things like the website TMZ, but hey it's 4 more citations in a Harvard associated paper than most, if not all of us have. Again, a consorted effort to legitimize UAPs and the study of them.

Curious...

Hmmm.... Per Stanford's webpage for Dr. Nolan:

Honors & Awards

---

• Burrough's Wellcome Investigator's Award In Pharmacology, Burroughs Wellcome (1995-2000)
• Scholar of the Leukemia Society, Leukemia and Lymphoma Society (1996-2000)
• Stohlman Scholar, Leukemia and Lymphoma Society (2000)
• Outstanding Research Achievement, for Mass Cytometry and CyTOF, Nature Publishing Group (2011)
• Teal Innovator Award, Department of Defense (2012-2017)

https://web.archive.org/web/20220211204330/https://profiles.stanford.edu/garry-nolan?tab=bio

Copilot the Windows AI can't find any mention of Nolan winning or being nominated for a Nobel either. I should note, it doesn't appear Nolan himself is making this claim.

 

[RTM]

Someone here said recently; that for someone who has delivered absolutely nothing, Nolan is held in very high regard in the UFO community. I suppose you could say that for a lot of people, but he is one of those who will always try to take shots at skeptics and it's usually met with some chorus of "speaking his mind".

 

[yoshy]

EDIT:
Apparently I'm not the first to have noticed the label being applied to him, but ...

Update: Today I Learned that the nominees are kept off this search for 50 years. I didn't know that. So that makes this link useless in this context. Sorry.

--
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/UAP/comments/xw35jo/garry_nolan_and_the_nobel_prize_wheres_the/?rdt=58183

I suggest that we nominate @Mick West so then we can refer to him as Nobel prize nominee and science investigator Mick West. Think about how much his haters in the UFO community would get triggered by that

 

[Mendel]

"And hopefully not engage in a firefight," he concluded.

"And hopefully not commit a felony" seems a somewhat dodgy standard to live by, no?

 

[JMartJr]

I suggest that we nominate @Mick West so then we can refer to him as Nobel prize nominee and science investigator Mick West. Think about how much his haters in the UFO community would get triggered by that

Oh what the Heck, Nobel nominations for al of us!

 

[Edward Current]

"And hopefully not commit a felony" seems a somewhat dodgy standard to live by, no?

It would be much more productive if they engaged in a livestream, so we'd finally have some evidence that this E.T. The Extraterrestrial fever dream is real. Instead, he conjures an image of traveling Branch Davidians.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Looking at this paper a bit more, I now get to the general thesis. This maybe should have been in the OP, but in my defense, I'd argue the authors buried the lead a bit. As noted in the OP, having quoted people like Nell, Grusch, Puthoff, Elizondo, Gallaudet and others the authors established that UAP are a real phenomenon worth studying (all external content from the paper in the OP unless noted otherwise):

Evidently, political complications aside, authorities are perplexed and moreover concerned about UAP, which are a real empirical mystery that science is surely obligated to investigate, as indeed is already happening in some quarters.

And that the Crypto Terrestrial Hypothesis (CTH) can possibly explain the Non-Human Intelligence (NHI) associated with UAP's. Note that the idea that UAPs HAVE a NHI association is already a given:

In essence, as per all ultraterrestrial hypotheses, the CTH suggests the NHI responsible for UAP may already be present in Earth's environment in some sense, as opposed to having an extraterrestrial explanation.

So, why the CTH? The authors claim this is based on 2 "empirical mysteries":

The starting point for taking the CTH seriously is perplexity over two interrelated empirical mysteries.

Basically, UAPs like water and volcanoes:

First, it is increasingly apparent that UAP are not only aerial but can also move underwater in ways that – per their airborne counterparts – defy explanation.

The second related empirical mystery is that some UAP sightings involve craft and other phenomena (e.g., "orbs") appearing to enter/exit potential underground access points, like volcanoes.

As to the first claim, the authors present various bits of evidence that UAPs are more common in or near water:

The importance and indeed urgency of paying attention to such phenomena has been outlined in a White Paper by Retired Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (2024a) – cited above as corroborating Grusch's claims – who argues that an extensive body of accounts and data show "Unidentified Submersible Objects" (USOs) acting in ways that surpass human technology, and even challenge scientific understanding of what is possible underwater.

"These objects have been observed to behave in ways that defy our current understanding of physics, much like their aerial counterparts. They are said to move at incredible speeds, and are capable of sudden and rapid acceleration, deceleration, and direction changes, all without any visible means of propulsion or control"10

Indeed, in an article in The Daily Mail (Waugh, 2024) – titled, "Forget UFOs, alien hunters say we should be focusing on Unidentified Submerged Objects (USOs)" – former Russian Navy officer turned UAP researcher Vladimir Azhazha is quoted as saying, "Fifty percent of UFO encounters are connected with oceans. Fifteen more - with lakes. So, UFOs tend to stick to the water."

And some more from Garry Nolan:

As Nolan (2022) stated in an interview, when asked if "whatever this is is coming from outside our atmosphere or … from beneath our oceans," he replied "Both," adding with respect to undersea activity that "sonar images show these things moving at speeds a dozen times faster than our fastest submarines."

There's some other stuff discussed but I think they sum it up here:

Although subsurface observations of these craft do not necessarily mean they reside underwater, such accounts should be considered in light of the CTH possibility.

As for the UAPs trying to get in and out of subterranean secret bases, volcanoes seem the best bet:

The second related empirical mystery is that some UAP sightings involve craft and other phenomena (e.g., "orbs") appearing to enter/exit potential underground access points, like volcanoes.

They give the example of Popocatepetl volcano as a "smoking gun":

The Popocatepetl volcano in central Mexico, for example, is considered a "hotspot" for such observations (Carter, 2023), with numerous such events captured on camera in 2023, which some UAP observers suggested was a "smoking gun" regarding NHI activity on Earth (Donald, 2023).

Some smoking guns:

Assorted explanations for some of the supposed UFOs seen near Popocatepetl, like the Moon, lens reflections and rocket launches are discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/what-are-popocatepetl-strange-lights.12225/

Their reason then for considering the CTH is that "UAP are not only aerial but can also move underwater" and some people took photos of the Moon and other stuff at Popocatepetl that might be UAPs. It seems a bit of a stretch.

The first real problem is that there's no one source for reliable UFO/UAP reporting. Without reliable numbers, how does one determine that a high or unusual percentage of said UAP reports are associated with water or Volcanoes? One could peruse the collections of reports from MUFON, NUFORK, NICAP, CUFOS or any other civilian group, but 10s of thousands of anecdotal reports are just that, a bunch of anecdotes. Here is a typical NUFORK case report as shared on another thread that includes not only UAPs but possible creatures:

NUFORC UFO Sighting 138962

Occurred: 2018-02-26 19:45 Local
Reported: 2018-02-26 19:57 Pacific
Duration: 10 minutes


Location: Desoto, WI, USA

Shape:
Characteristics: Aircraft nearby, Animals reacted

I seen 3 fighter jets circling my area flying back and forth over my house. After the fighter jets went north, I looked up in the sky and seen what appeared to be tiny little blue stars moving very fast across the sky with absolutely no sound!

Shortly after I seen the moving stars, or what ever it was, I heard a very loud screeching from some type of animal. Not sure what it was but it was freaky!

https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=138962

Before making any assumptions about the frequency of UAPs as related to water or volcanoes, one first has to weed through ALL the reports make some sort of sense from them. Two people tried this, sorta. Cheryl and Linda Costa searched through MUFON and NUFORK reports and attempted to catagorized them. From UFO promoter/journalist Ralph Blumenthall's NYT story about them (bold by me):

These questions and many others emerge from the first comprehensive statistical summary of so-called close encounters: 121,036 eyewitness accounts, organized county by county in each state and the District of Columbia, from 2001 to 2015.

The unlikely compendium, "U.F.O. Sightings Desk Reference," is the work of a couple in Syracuse, who crunched unruly data on U.F.O. reports collected by two volunteer organizations: the Mutual U.F.O. Network, or Mufon, and the National U.F.O. Reporting Center, or Nuforc.

The book contains no narrative or anecdotal accounts, just 371 pages of charts and graphs that slice and dice the geography and timing of the incidents and the various shapes that witnesses reported: flying circles, spheres, triangles, discs, ovals, cigars.

Many of the sightings turn out to be explainable, the authors say, but a small percentage defy resolution.

They did this because:

"We wanted to do our bit for disclosure," she said. "It's something the government should have been doing."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/science/ufo-sightings-book.html

The updated version will set one back $40, so not likely to be on my bookshelf:

But hey, I did notice a cheaper logbook where I can record all my own UFO sightings and then make my own database:

Regardless of what is in the UFO Sightings Desk Reference, it is pulled from MUFON and NUFORK records, which we've noted in other treads is problematic. These are collections of self-selecting reports, as anyone that reports to them KNOWS there is a MUFON and/or a NUFORK to report UFOs to. And the authors of the CTH paper make no mention of this book, so even if there was useful information pointing to the increased frequency of UFO/UAP activity in or near water and volcanos, they didn't make use of it.

The idea that a high percentage of UAPs are sighted near water, if even true, can be explained even using this flawed UFO map:

Partly like the Desk Referance book, this map is pulled from NUFORK reports and then plotted on a map. NUFORK is a Washington State based, English language reporting organization. Hence, the reports skew to the US and English speaking countires. While there are various problems with this map discussed in another thread, it does demonstrate one of the axioms of UFO reporting, mainly, lots of reports happen where lots of people are.

Note that the plots in the US roughly follow the population trends for the US, lot's of people means lot's of UFO reports and lot's of people live near the coast or water. No big mystery.

The same thing applies to Bigfoot sightings, even though he should be in remote areas, The Big Guy, like Starbucks, tends to be where people are:

Map discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mi...eporting-map-actually-based-on-us-data.12721/

As for UAPs being attracted to volcanos, that's just a ludicrous example of the authors back fitting a preconceived notion as best they could. It seems that, having already come up with the CTH, the authors needed some evidence to back it up, particularly the idea that CTs are living under ground as described by Richard Shaver in the OP:

In the latter article, one observer is quoted as suggesting the volcano functions as an inter-dimensional "portal" (an "intergalactic gateway between two locations in space-time"). However, other people speculate that some UAP might not only be drawn to such locales (e.g., as a portal, or for purposes such as hiding or gatheringenergy), but might come from underground (i.e., with the NHI responsible residing in a subterranean way).

To that end, they suggest that UAPs must fly into active volcanos? As into the hot gases, the flying rocks and dust and the molten hot magma? Their evidence for this is a few reports and photos from 1 (one, singular, solemente) active volcano in Mexico. But wait, doesn't the US have the most UFO/UAP reports? That's what the authors say:

(Although UAP are a worldwide phenomenon (Lomas, 2023b)1, the dynamics of this topic are mostly driven by developments in the US, which of all nations has seen the most UAP-related activity, both in terms of sightings and the attention paid to them.)

So, if the US has the most UAP sightings, there must be a lot of active volcanos in the US, right? More like 3 in the last 200+years:

Excluding steam eruptions, these volcanoes have shown activity:

• Mount St. Helens, Washington - Eruptions and/or lava dome growth occurred in the late 1700s, 1800-1857, 1980-1986, and 2004-2008.
• Lassen Peak, California - A series of steam blasts began on May 30, 1914. An eruption occurred 12 months later on May 21, 1915. Minor activity continued through the middle of 1917.
• Mount Hood, Oregon - After being dormant for over 1,000 years, Mount Hood had an eruptive period beginning in 1781 that lasted for about a decade. In the mid-1800s, local residents reported minor explosive activity.

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/which-volcanoes-conterminous-united-states-have-erupted-nation-was-founded

And one is hard pressed to find a lot of UFO/UAP reports about these eruptions. I'm not really sure what's up with thier volcano claim, other than throwing in some anecdotes to make underground CT sound plausible. Again, this in one of two "empirical mysteries" about UAP that supposedly led them to the CTH.

Moreover, there is the idea of "sum is greater than its parts" type argument used throughout this paper. In fact the whole paper seems to be a piling on of one thing after another each reenforcing the other. To that end, the authors use the word "moreover" a lot, like this:

Moreover, in June 2023 explosive "whistleblowing" claims were made publicly by David Grusch,

And this:

Moreover, these allegations seem to have been taken seriously by the intelligence,

In fact, the word "moreover" appears 38 times. As if each bit of whatever follows logically from the previous bit of whatever. Bigfoot evidence follows Shaver Mysteries evidence. Kinda.

Lastly there is the 3rd listed author, Michael P Masters. He has UFO/Time Traverler UFO books aimed at the lay person:

Maybe more interesting is this line @deirdre found in a thread about his Extratempestrial Model:

first sentence, page 4 of The_Extratempestrial_Model

This experience, along with the fact that I've always been easily bored by the banality of reality, was the impetus for my deep dive into the UFO phenomenon.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361103244_The_Extratempestrial_Model

Maybe he's still just board with the banality of reality and is a bit of a provocateur?

Other Master's thread here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...are-causing-close-encounter-experiences.12949

 

[JMartJr]

The importance and indeed urgency of paying attention to such phenomena has been outlined in a White Paper by Retired Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (2024a) – cited above as corroborating Grusch's claims – who argues that an extensive body of accounts and data show "Unidentified Submersible Objects" (USOs) acting in ways that surpass human technology, and even challenge scientific understanding of what is possible underwater.
...
Ideed, in an article in The Daily Mail (Waugh, 2024) – titled, "Forget UFOs, alien hunters say we should be focusing on Unidentified Submerged Objects (USOs)" – former Russian Navy officer turned UAP researcher Vladimir Azhazha is quoted as saying, "Fifty percent of UFO encounters are connected with oceans. Fifteen more - with lakes. So, UFOs tend to stick to the water."

From post above.

I think this point needs to be stressed -- similarly to the case with UAP/UFOs in air, the technology of the supposed vehicle, however impressive and physics breaking, still has to move the vehicle through Water 1.0, which would be even more problematic than Air 1.0, being relatively uncompressable and a lot more dense. It would be unavoidable that you'd be doing nasty things to the air if you had magic tech that let you do insane speeds and such in the air, you'd do similar things to the water. Some of those things would be pretty noticeable -- but nobody seems to be noticing them happening.

EG: Consider the punch of the mantis shrimp

If threatened, the peacock mantis shrimp can whip out these appendages at speeds of 23 m/sec (75 ft/sec). (About 51 miles per hour, accelerating for maybe an inch! -- JM) That's 50 times faster than the blink of an eye, or about the same as the trajectory of a .22 calibre bullet – and with a force some 100 times that of its weight, making it the strongest self-powered strike by an animal.

So rapid is the uncoiling of their deadly limbs that it generates vapour-filled bubbles between the limb and the animal it is about to hit. That effectively doubles the impact of the strike: after the club makes contact with its target, the bubbles collapse and unleash a shock wave that may stun or kill the prey (sometimes even if the blow misses altogether!).

Source: Guinness Book of World Records (https://www.guinnessworldrecords.co...t-powerful-punch-in-the-animal-kingdom-567501)
and

It's (the punch is -- JM) so quick and creates so much pressure, that the shrimp actually vaporises the water in front of it. This creates small 'cavitation bubbles' that not only emit bright light, but also temperatures of around 4,000°C.

Source: https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/mantis-shrimp

Now mantis shrimp are small, and their leg clubs are even smaller, and although they accelerate at impressive speeds they do not challenge scientific understanding of what can happen underwater! That would be even faster. Imagine what UFOs the size of Fravor's Tick Tack or the Mother Ship it is imagined it might have come, not just throwing a punch at a clam for a fraction of a second but maneuvering about as they travel the seas from would do in terms of cavitation,heating, bursts of light, etc. It would be extremely hard to miss.

Edited to remove an extraneous word that muddles the meaning a bit...

 

[Mendel]

The second related empirical mystery is that some UAP sightings involve craft and other phenomena (e.g., "orbs") appearing to enter/exit potential underground access points, like volcanoes.

Do these "scientists" think volcanoes are holes in the ground that you can fly through? and geologically stable enough to support underground infrastructure?

 

[Mendel]

Professor Nolan said this week that plans are underway to retrieve UAP for the public's benefit.

"There's one legal way, which is to go out and look for the evidence ourselves. The stuff that is claimed to be obtained is in the possession of the Government because they got there first," he said.

"We have an amazing detection system, satellites that were spent billions of dollars putting up; when stuff goes awry, they get there first.

"There are operations being set up to make parallel retrieval teams that have nothing to do with the Government, to get there first.

"And hopefully not engage in a firefight," he concluded.

I can see where this is going: "Our private retrieval team has recovered some UFO parts. We're not disclosing the location because we don't want the government to get it."
And then they can sell scrap metal as "genuine UFO parts" to the rich folks who'd otherwise buy NFTs with their money.

Given their track record on handling evidence properly (provenance and provenience), UFOlogists are the last people who should retrieve something like that.

 

[John J.]

A new article by Níall Feiritear in the Irish newspaper Sunday World discusses Garry Nolan endorsing a theory that orb UAP are part of a defense system to protect humans, and cites the cryptoterrestrial paper as supporting evidence.

Stanford Professor says Irish man's UAP global defence theory needs to be investigated - All quotes are from this article.

Patrick Jackson's "UAP global defence theory" has popped up here before before:

Then there's Patrick Johnson [Jackson], on TwitterX, a poltergeist enthusiast who has a complex theory on "orbs" (which he mostly calls spheres) that's morphed over the years from paranormal to aliens.
https://twitter.com/PatrickQJackson

I'm going off-topic but Mick's link is worth a quick read.
Mr Jackson believes the orbs are part of a millennia-old Earth defence system, and poltergeist activity is some sort of side-effect, or perhaps a way of keeping people away from the locations of orb operations- one of three types of spheres described by Mr Jackson reside in (presumably 'normal') buildings. They operate 5-10 miles (approx. 8-16 km) apart from each other, so we must conclude that orb and poltergeist activity is being seriously under-reported.

...Mr Jackson – an IT database specialist – says he honed his skills on trying to understand poltergeist activity in a famous location – 30 East Drive, home to the most 'aggressive poltergeist' in the UK.

"I observed silver spheres flying around the house, tennis ball sized drones, intelligently controlled.

"Like marbles bouncing off the walls, hitting my face.
Content from External Source

Unfortunately I don't think Mr Jackson managed to capture any footage of these events, which must be very frustrating for him seeing as he'd gone there specifically to investigate strange activity.

Luckily, we can visit 30 East Drive, "home of the most aggressive poltergeist in the UK", in Pontefract, West Yorkshire for an overnight stay at just £85 (just over $104) so it's pretty certain that someone will be able to confirm Patrick's observations,
Link here, Haunted Rooms webpage of Haunted Breaks Ltd.

The house itself is a fairly standard-looking 1950's semi-detached, so the Earth defence spheres obviously took up residence sometime since then, maybe while the owners were at work or out shopping.

Personally, if a mysterious high-tech planetary defence system started hitting me in the face, and I realised it was acting intelligently, I'd re-evaluate some of my beliefs, but maybe Mr Jackson is more stoical. Or maybe he can't take a hint. ;)

Edited to add: If Mr Jackson's belief that poltergeist activity is a mechanism to deter people from investigating orb operations, the sale of tickets to visit 30 East Drive demonstrates that this tactic is failing.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ua...rb-captured-by-photographer.13197/post-302475

I have some regard for Mr Jackson, who is clearly an independent thinker with an interest in the unexplained.
His lack of (shared) footage of poltergeist or orb activity might give us some concern about the repeatability of his claims,
particularly as one type of the claimed UAP/ orbs/ poltergeists are based in buildings- our buildings- 5 to 10 miles apart.
So there's lots of them.

If we credit the orbs with a 10 mile (16.09 km) communication range with their neighbours, we can say each might have a zone of responsibility (within a 10 mile radius) of approx. 314.159 square miles (813.668 km sq.)

The island of Ireland has an area of 32,595 sq. miles (84,421 km2), so there must be a minimum of 103 or 104 orbs on duty in Ireland.
-That's 103-plus buildings, some of which might be inhabited like the house in Pontefract, England, where the orbs are stationed and where they use "radiation" to generate kinetic effects in an attempt to keep humans away, fearful as we are of poltergeists.
(Skating over the fact that the house that Mr. Jackson investigated in Pontefract is selling tickets for sleepovers/ "investigations", see link above. Oh, they're sold out up till the end of 2024).

Assuming a similar density, there must be around 12,086 domestic orb-poltergeists spread across the USA, since time immemorial, meaning there's a serious under-reporting of orb/ UAP/ poltergeist activity, despite the best efforts of Skinwalker Ranch cast members personnel in recent years.

The late Patrick Moore said (in Can You Speak Venusian? IIRC) that independent thinkers add to the gaiety of nations, and we might extend that to Mr. Jackson. Moore was writing before the widespread politically motivated/ malicious spread of pseudo-scientific disinformation that we see now.

But if Garry Nolan, proud of his credentials as a Stanford academic, chooses to see Mr. Jackson's theories as useful leads to describing an objective reality which encompasses mysterious orbs under intelligent non-human control, hidden in literally thousands of normal buildings across the world, it isn't helpful.
It isn't scientific, it isn't true, it doesn't add to the gaiety of nations, and it isn't funny.

 

[John J.]

[Quoting Garry Nolan] "There are operations being set up to make parallel retrieval teams that have nothing to do with the Government, to get there first.

"And hopefully not engage in a firefight," he concluded.

(1) I would rather the elected government of the United States of America dealt with any extraterrestrial technology or creatures that landed within its territory rather than some self-selected unaccountable group.
Same goes for any of the established liberal democracies. Maybe some legislation to this end is called for.

(2) If Garry Nolan knows of groups within the US that might engage United States Government-employed personnel in a firefight, for any reason, he should share that information with Federal law enforcement.

(3) Anyone involved in a "parallel retrieval team" and who thinks that it is useful to be armed while "on retrieval" should consider (a) who are they are prepared to fight/ defend themselves against; (b) why Nolan (or Bigelow, or SWR folk, etc.) aren't in the firing line with them.

(4) Garry Nolan is not an engineer or physicist. The last thing Stanford University needs is Nolan prising open some Kosmos satellites' reactor in order to learn the secrets of the ultraterrestrials.

Nolan seems to be progressing from unfounded and eccentric views to a different sphere of minority thinking entirely.

 

[Ann K]

I can see where this is going: "Our private retrieval team has recovered some UFO parts. We're not disclosing the location because we don't want the government to get it."
And then they can sell scrap metal as "genuine UFO parts" to the rich folks who'd otherwise buy NFTs with their money.

What goes around, comes around! The story I've been told is that one of Wernher von Braun's early V-2 rockets was tested at White Sands NM but crashed a short distance away in Mexico; the markets of Juarez were subsequently flooded with every bit of scrap metal they could find and sold as "genuine rocket parts".

 

[NorCal Dave]

Professor Nolan said this week that plans are underway to retrieve UAP for the public's benefit.

"There's one legal way, which is to go out and look for the evidence ourselves. The stuff that is claimed to be obtained is in the possession of the Government because they got there first," he said.

"We have an amazing detection system, satellites that were spent billions of dollars putting up; when stuff goes awry, they get there first.

"There are operations being set up to make parallel retrieval teams that have nothing to do with the Government, to get there first.

"And hopefully not engage in a firefight," he concluded.

Maybe its own thread, but seriously what the hell is he talking about? "Operations being set up to make parallel retrieval teams" sounds like UFOlogical fantasy come true.

The government is always snatching up the crashed UFOs and hiding them, but now the UFOlogists will have their own armed(?) commando teams on standby ready to repel out of black helicopters and then transfer the crashed UFO to a safe, but non-government facility where they can be reverse engineered for the benefit of humankind.

That "revers engineered for the benefit of humankind" is just a throw away PR line giving to the press when the question of "why?" comes up. The really important part is the UFOlogist being able to join an ass-kicking non-governmental elite Alin/UFO commando unit. Imagine putting down the dusty books, the photo analysis, the MUFON catalog and sitting up from the computer screen to strap on oodles of kit and an AR-15 before stepping onto a waiting UH-60 to be whisked away to the latest UFO crash site before the lazy MiBs can get outta bed!

You're no longer just a "YouTube researcher", your now an elite retrieval specialist. You are now part of "Nolan's Nik'rs", grabbing the UFO before the government can:

Oh, to dream and dream big!

The other reality is, there have been countless civilian UFO groups and organizations for at least the last 75+ years as well as privately bankrolled efforts like NIDS or government paid for versions like BAASS and they have never retrieved jack-shit! Aside from a few bits of junk, slag and industrial waste, they have NOTHING.

If the argument is the US government has all the data to find the crashed UFOs, then how is this new effort any different? I guess the new group could buy time of commercial satellites or try to get Elon involved, but there still not going have the capabilities the US government has, so they're always going to be in 2nd place. The whole thing is from a James Bond movie, the bad Roger Moore ones.

 

[RTM]

Of course he could always ask Ross Coulthart. No need for commandos, unless Ross has some of his own.

 

[JMartJr]

This is all feeling very LARPy to me. It may be more about cosplaying (or the online equivalent) as paramilitary UFO retrievers?

IF they are really proposing showing up at a crash site of some flying vehiclethat they have not identified with guns to shoot at first responders, that sounds as dangerous as (redacted!) I suppose they might enjoy feeling persecuted and self-important when they get arrested, but if it gets to the part where they are thrown in prison it might not be as much fun.

 

[Ann K]

This is all feeling very LARPy to me. It may be more about cosplaying (or the online equivalent) as paramilitary UFO retrievers?

IF they are really proposing showing up at a crash site of some flying vehiclethat they have not identified with guns to shoot at first responders, that sounds as dangerous as (redacted!) I suppose they might enjoy feeling persecuted and self-important when they get arrested, but if it gets to the part where they are thrown in prison it might not be as much fun.

I'm still wondering when some northwoods hunter will shoot a person disguised as Bigfoot.

 

[Giddierone]

I'm still wondering when some northwoods hunter will shoot a person disguised as Bigfoot.

Man apparently attempting Bigfoot hoax killed on Montana highway

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE87R1B7/

Montana man told police a hunter 'mistook him for Bigfoot' and shot at him, cops say

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/national/article223287195.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/national/article223287195.html

I'm sure there are more cases.