Chem/Con orbs.. no debunking these things

Spongebob

Active Member
It is a ufology phenomena mainly. There are a lot of "unexplained" videos showing these "UFO`s". They get really excited about them. Many claim that exactly the same looking ones as 'seen' in the OP`s video actually create crop circles... (as well as ignore contrails)

[video=youtube_share;_L6xGfe_a1s]http://youtu.be/_L6xGfe_a1s[/video]

Same light "orbs"? (birds/paper bags...)



With the one that looks like birds creating a pattern as they fly over it:
The guy who filmed this video actually admitted it to be fake... He even explained how he did it and it's even demonstrated how he did it.


edit: here - just in case anyone thinks these "orbs" are real...

http://www.robertschoch.net/Crop Circle Video Oliver's Castle Fraud LWCMD CT.htm


 

Leifer

Senior Member.
The OP is rejecting the many suggestions as to what the "orbs" might be, but he offering nothing on his plate. It's as if ....if we can't say exactly what they are, he then claims a victory of sorts.
Strange.....because saying we don't know what they are (exactly), is the most honest answer.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
The OP is rejecting the many suggestions as to what the "orbs" might be, but he offering nothing on his plate.

Just like someone else in an entirely different thread, regarding 9/11. I gave up on that person, it was pointless going around in semantic circles.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think a valuable lesson any debunker needs to learn is when to stop arguing with someone. Best of all - identify people you don't even want to start arguing with.

I tried to stay away from 9/11 debates, as it's basically religion at this point, but I got drawn in nonetheless.
 

Debunk This

Member
It is a ufology phenomena mainly. There are a lot of "unexplained" videos showing these "UFO`s". They get really excited about them. Many claim that exactly the same looking ones as 'seen' in the OP`s video actually create crop circles... (as well as ignore contrails) [video=youtube_share;_L6xGfe_a1s]http://youtu.be/_L6xGfe_a1s[/video] Same light "orbs"? (birds/paper bags...) With the one that looks like birds creating a pattern as they fly over it:
The guy who filmed this video actually admitted it to be fake... He even explained how he did it and it's even demonstrated how he did it. edit: here - just in case anyone thinks these "orbs" are real... http://www.robertschoch.net/Crop Circle Video Oliver's Castle Fraud LWCMD CT.htm
These objects ARE NOT birds/paperbags... how can honestly sit there and type that?
 

Debunk This

Member
The OP is rejecting the many suggestions as to what the "orbs" might be, but he offering nothing on his plate. It's as if ....if we can't say exactly what they are, he then claims a victory of sorts. Strange.....because saying we don't know what they are (exactly), is the most honest answer.
I'm not rejecting any VALID suggestions.. As I've said. these objects clearly are not birds/out of focus, lens flare etc ... so that leads me to guess that there is something being sprayed other than normal contrails
 

Debunk This

Member
Explain why you think they are not birds.
Look back at the posts.. i have spotted one of these objects out. i can tell you right now they are not birds. birds do not fly that high up in the sky, and they are not completely white and circular...
 

MikeC

Closed Account
How high are they? What exact altitude?

And why can out-of-focus birds not be a single round "orb" - exactly what are the physics of focus, perspective and distance that make this impossible?
 

Danny55

Senior Member.
"I'm not rejecting any VALID suggestions.. As I've said. these objects clearly are not birds/out of focus, lens flare etc ... so that leads me to guess that there is something being sprayed other than normal contrails"

But the objects do not come from the trail, they appear from the right, ahead of the plane, then head to the left.
 

Spongebob

Active Member
"these objects clearly are not birds/out of focus"

Why?


"so that leads me to guess that there is something being sprayed other than normal contrails"

Explain the leap from:

"I don`t think they are birds"


to

"something is being "sprayed" other than normal contrails"

Please...?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
If DT is genuine in his misunderstanding, then he's not alone. It seems that perspective a fairly common source of the misconceptions surrounding contrails (and UFOs). When people see two things next to each other in a photograph or video - particularly if there's no context, like in the sky, then they assume they are at the same distance from the camera.

Here's the original video, in highest definition available:



I suppose it's another illusion that it's referred to as an "orb", as in none of the frames does it appear anything other than a collection of about four pixels - it could be triangular, or bird shaped, just as easily as being round.

But things being next to each other in a picture does not mean they are the same distance for the camera.



So, DT, if you wish to continue with this, explain why you think the object is at the same distance as the plane
 
Last edited:

solrey

Senior Member.
I've been an avid photographer and stargazer for over 20 years and I'm very familiar with optics and optical anomalies. In the video linked in the OP, I notice the "orb" is actually a ring like a donut which is quite obvious in the negative view. That's the expected result of a nearby object out of focus and much much closer to the lens than the distant plane. Taking a star out of focus in a telescope also produces a ring/donut shaped image which is used to fine tune collimation, which is the technical term for lining up the mirrors on reflector scopes. Has anyone ever noticed, especially late in the day although it can happen at any time of day, small swarms of bugs illuminated or backlit by sunlight?

In this video bugs are illuminated by a porch light. Some of the bugs look very similar if not identical to the "orbs" in the videos DT posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vrjmmj7hcs

My educated analysis is that those objects are just bugs reflecting sunlight within 20 or 30 feet of the lens, making them shiny and out of focus. I'm sure to the untrained eye it can look pretty mysterious, especially to those with an imagination that tends to run wild.

cheers
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think it's a ring shape. That's not a negative view, it's some kind of edge detection filter.


Here's the image with the "ring" from the video


Here's the original from the video


Here's the negative:


And here it the negative run though Photoshop's "Stylize/find edges" filter
(This filter will actually give the same result on the original as on the negative - it detects changes in brightness irrespective of direction)


There's no donut effect in the original video. The use of the these filters in the video simply confuses matters.
 
Last edited:

firepilot

Senior Member.
And its interesting how these "orbs" are only spotted, after the fact via out of focus video posted on youtube.

Why is it, that they are never seemingly spotted at the time of filming? hmmmmmmm
 

Spongebob

Active Member
I've been an avid photographer and stargazer for over 20 years and I'm very familiar with optics and optical anomalies. In the video linked in the OP, I notice the "orb" is actually a ring like a donut which is quite obvious in the negative view. That's the expected result of a nearby object out of focus and much much closer to the lens than the distant plane. Taking a star out of focus in a telescope also produces a ring/donut shaped image which is used to fine tune collimation, which is the technical term for lining up the mirrors on reflector scopes. Has anyone ever noticed, especially late in the day although it can happen at any time of day, small swarms of bugs illuminated or backlit by sunlight?

In this video bugs are illuminated by a porch light. Some of the bugs look very similar if not identical to the "orbs" in the videos DT posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vrjmmj7hcs

My educated analysis is that those objects are just bugs reflecting sunlight within 20 or 30 feet of the lens, making them shiny and out of focus. I'm sure to the untrained eye it can look pretty mysterious, especially to those with an imagination that tends to run wild.

cheers


Great post.

The bug at 2:20 looks and behaves very much like the "orb" on the OP`s video.

Alien orbs attracted to a dangerous chemical trail is far more romantic though... :rolleyes:
 

solrey

Senior Member.
There's no donut effect in the original video. The use of the these filters in the video simply confuses matters.

Good catch, Mick. I'm on a roadtrip using my gf's laptop and about to hit the road again so I guess I jumped the gun a bit on the donut thing. Sorry 'bout that. It's just one indicator of many so it not being a ring doesn't necessarily rule out an out of focus bug.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
A bug is possible, but I think a bird is more likely based on the color.

I don't think it's particularly out of focus either - it's just that the camera lacks the resolution to resolve any detail. It's probably only 2 or 3 CCD sensors across.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
One class of possible candidates for "orbs" is wind-borne seeds. These have some kind of fluff attached for a high cross-section to mass ratio. And this fluff is usually white or at least a light colour.

This theory was tested in the New Zealand conspiracy community one Autumn (Fall) a few years ago.
Thistle Seeds photographed in Wellington
The Administrator changed the title of the thread from "Orbs photographed in Wellington" after it was revealed what had actually been photographed.

With some assistants and a good set up, it should be possible to obtain a photo containing a well sun-lit thistle seed fairly close to the camera while the focus is at near infinity.

As far as I can tell, the most convincing "orb" incidents occur in the Autumn (Fall) season and in locations where these seeds would be plentiful.

An observation from this experiment is that people who easily fall for hoaxes (like chemtrails) do not like to be spoofed.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, that sounds pretty plausible actually. It could also be any small white wind-blown debris, like a scrap of light paper.

We'll never know in this particular case, it's a UFO.

The important point is that there are literally hundreds of mundane things it could possibly be besides a 100 foot diameter white sphere travelling at 5000 mph with intermittent 50g accelerations (which is all what it would have to be if it were behind the plane)
 

swoop

New Member
I'm betting it is a bird at a distance and certainly a much lower altitude. There is nothing to suggest it isn't. it may only be a few hundred metres away, but enough to look like it is moving at great speed when compared to the plane in the background.
 

Debunk This

Member
One class of possible candidates for "orbs" is wind-borne seeds. These have some kind of fluff attached for a high cross-section to mass ratio. And this fluff is usually white or at least a light colour. This theory was tested in the New Zealand conspiracy community one Autumn (Fall) a few years ago. Thistle Seeds photographed in Wellington The Administrator changed the title of the thread from "Orbs photographed in Wellington" after it was revealed what had actually been photographed. With some assistants and a good set up, it should be possible to obtain a photo containing a well sun-lit thistle seed fairly close to the camera while the focus is at near infinity. As far as I can tell, the most convincing "orb" incidents occur in the Autumn (Fall) season and in locations where these seeds would be plentiful. An observation from this experiment is that people who easily fall for hoaxes (like chemtrails) do not like to be spoofed.
Sorry.. what exactly do you think these orbs are? If you guys are calling them birds/out of focus/plastic bags.. I'm not buying it... I have spotted one of these things first hand. go and check out the video
 

Debunk This

Member
"I'm betting it is a bird at a distance and certainly a much lower altitude. There is nothing to suggest it isn't" A pair of eyes maybe? since when are birds completely white and circular?
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
Sorry.. what exactly do you think these orbs are? If you guys are calling them birds/out of focus/plastic bags.. I'm not buying it... I have spotted one of these things first hand. go and check out the video

As you can plainly read in my message #103, the "orbs" I photographed were thistle seeds. They look like a lot of the orbs you see in photos and videos... including IMO the one you ref'ed in your OP, "UFOs? Orbs? What exactly are these things? - Watch In HD!"

You haven't actually stated what you think they are, yet you challenge ,"There is NOTHING you can say to debunk these orbs." Well, what do you think they are? And what are your reasons? You have not "spotted one of these things first hand." You found some in existing videos. You did not see them naked eye at the time, otherwise you would have videoed them. You wrote that as a caption in the video (assuming it is yours). You don't know what they are. Nobody does for sure, and that is the substance of your post, and not that no one can "debunk" them.

Whatever they are, they are nothing to do with contrails/chemtrails. They are nowhere near either the plane or the trail. At about 2:00 you can see the definition of the "orb" change as the camera struggles to auto-focus on the shifting image content. The "orb" is much closer to the camera than the plane/contrail/clouds/buildings.
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
"Nothing more needs to be said really..."

Really? What about trails in cartoons and kid's comics from the 1960s?

(Would I be wrong in assuming "debunk this" is Peter K from Melbourne?)
"DebunkThis", I'm wondering if you think there's anything suspicious about 1960s cartoons such as Roger Ramjet portraying long white trails behind jets also?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZIjT3S7wvc
You seem worried about contrails appearing in media from the present day.
Is that more suspicious than their regular appearance in 1960s cartoons for any reason?


It is an established fact that long horizon spanning contrails have been a normal common sight since the 1940s and common in magazine adverts for many decades.
Since they have been such a common sight for such a long time why do you think it's unusual for them to be portrayed in popular culture?
Would you get upset seeing images of stop lights and power lines in children's cartoons?
Stop lights and power lines are not naturally occurring objects yet as far as I know do not raise any suspicions amongst the general public.
Where should we literally draw the line?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo6rgrnY6TU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_oC-ijfQkA
http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/153/904/928/uvMn.jpg
http://store.vintagepaperads.com/servlet/-strse-25129/1958-Douglas-DC-dsh-8-Jetliner/Detail
http://www.adclassix.com/ads/57douglas.htm
http://www.adclassix.com/ads2/58douglasjet1.htm


I'd be very interested to hear if you are concerned about the white trails that form behind fast moving boats. Those trails are rarely of uniform length, duration or appearance.
They often criss cross and form parallel lines.
Would you argue that since they are claimed to just be the result of a boat's passage through water then they all should have identical appearance?
If they are just water then why shouldn't they look exactly the same from all boats in all conditions?
Do you think there is something suspicious about the claim that a speed boat wakes appearance is dependant on conditions?

BTW, Nice pic of Peekay22 here.
http://api.ning.com/files/XnVLs9zWi...peg?xgip=0:0:1148:1148;;&width=183&height=183
 

Debunk This

Member
"Nothing more needs to be said really..." Really? What about trails in cartoons and kid's comics from the 1960s? (Would I be wrong in assuming "debunk this" is Peter K from Melbourne?) "DebunkThis", I'm wondering if you think there's anything suspicious about 1960s cartoons such as Roger Ramjet portraying long white trails behind jets also? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZIjT3S7wvc You seem worried about contrails appearing in media from the present day. Is that more suspicious than their regular appearance in 1960s cartoons for any reason? It is an established fact that long horizon spanning contrails have been a normal common sight since the 1940s and common in magazine adverts for many decades. Since they have been such a common sight for such a long time why do you think it's unusual for them to be portrayed in popular culture? Would you get upset seeing images of stop lights and power lines in children's cartoons? Stop lights and power lines are not naturally occurring objects yet as far as I know do not raise any suspicions amongst the general public. Where should we literally draw the line? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo6rgrnY6TU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_oC-ijfQkA http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/153/904/928/uvMn.jpg http://store.vintagepaperads.com/servlet/-strse-25129/1958-Douglas-DC-dsh-8-Jetliner/Detail http://www.adclassix.com/ads/57douglas.htm http://www.adclassix.com/ads2/58douglasjet1.htm I'd be very interested to hear if you are concerned about the white trails that form behind fast moving boats. Those trails are rarely of uniform length, duration or appearance. They often criss cross and form parallel lines. Would you argue that since they are claimed to just be the result of a boat's passage through water then they all should have identical appearance? If they are just water then why shouldn't they look exactly the same from all boats in all conditions? Do you think there is something suspicious about the claim that a speed boat wakes appearance is dependant on conditions? BTW, Nice pic of Peekay22 here. http://api.ning.com/files/XnVLs9zWi...peg?xgip=0:0:1148:1148;;&width=183&height=183
(Would I be wrong in assuming "debunk this" is Peter K from Melbourne?) Yes, you are wrong. I'm not peekay22 .... They are FLOODING this CHEM/CON PROPAGANDA EVERYWHERE. There is NO reason for printing CONTRAILS on pokemon cards... NONE
 

Debunk This

Member
It's quite clear now that you guys are gov sponsored shill bags.. There is no point continuing as you guys are 100% convinced ANY type of chemical trail is IMPOSSIBLE,.. and that ANY type of orb anomaly that has to do with ANY chem/CON trails is either out of focus/birds/plastic bags, seeds etc.. Not buying it
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
DebunkThis, you haven't shown any evidence that there are trail images on Pokemon cards in the first place.
Can you point us towards any images of pokemon cards that show contrails?
Please provide a link.
Most of the cloud illustrations shown on the playmobile toy packaging are normal cloud formations no different to those documented in photographs over 100years ago.
https://picasaweb.google.com/Uncinus/CloudStudies1905And1925

I suspect your pokemon comments are actually referring to Japanese illustrator's action lines used by all illustrators to convey a sense of speed by simulating motion blur of the background.
This Gigantor cartoon from the 1960s uses action lines to convey the sense speed similar to the action lines used for the flying pokemon characters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWaTAZUxUQ
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/tvsea07_040.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_y6KWvpIx5yw/TSDqFovB5LI/AAAAAAAAAbg/yTCM04La_bk/s1600/swell.jpeg


Perhaps you might envisage a conspiracy explanation for the trails formed behind the Light Cycles in the 1980s children's movie "Tron" and it's sequel decades later?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ODe9mqoDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn4SUk6p1fg

BTW, I'm a professional design engineer and have written and illustrated aviation themed children's book titles incorporating such action lines in a book I published in 1987.
ISBN0731616057, 9780731616053
http://www.mckeewildthings.com/image/Wungle cover pos28602_C5092.jpg
http://www.mckeewildthings.com/image/BaronBumblast fly91_Cop5089.jpg
http://www.mckeewildthings.com/Illustrations.htm

I think your comments simply reveal you are not familiar with 20th century manga , anime and other illustration conventions known to most modern artists
 

swoop

New Member
It's quite clear now that you guys are gov sponsored shill bags.. There is no point continuing as you guys are 100% convinced ANY type of chemical trail is IMPOSSIBLE,.. and that ANY type of orb anomaly that has to do with ANY chem/CON trails is either out of focus/birds/plastic bags, seeds etc.. Not buying it

As a pilot myself I know there is no such things as "chemtrails" there are no hidden switches or tanks on aircraft. there is no conspiracy, just deluded people who think airlines are spraying the population!
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Sorry.. what exactly do you think these orbs are? If you guys are calling them birds/out of focus/plastic bags.. I'm not buying it... I have spotted one of these things first hand. go and check out the video

According to your theory that birds cannot show up on YouTube videos as round dots, here is a video of thousands of your "orbs"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoS3nIT2qYo

Birds riding a "thermal"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl46q4aDl4U

White seagulls at 1:35 to 1:45, in this vid....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72N3KqLjBrE

And note....these videos show high-flying birds as mostly round dots, even when the videographer is TRYING to focus on them.

----------
As a side note, I also found this vid of low-flying birds......pause the vid at nearly any point, and you will see another misunderstood photographic phenomenon, which some people (falsely) claim the existence of "rods"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXiCa8guBwg&feature=related
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
It's quite clear now that you guys are gov sponsored shill bags.. There is no point continuing as you guys are 100% convinced ANY type of chemical trail is IMPOSSIBLE,.. and that ANY type of orb anomaly that has to do with ANY chem/CON trails is either out of focus/birds/plastic bags, seeds etc.. Not buying it


"I don't believe it's what everybody else says it is, so it must be what i (refuse to) say it is," is not a position.

The burden of proof begins with you - the person making the claim. It really is that simple. What do you believe the blurry dot is?

I think you're here just to stir the pot. You can't prove me wrong so i must be right. :confused:
 

Debunk This

Member
According to your theory that birds cannot show up on YouTube videos as round dots, here is a video of thousands of your "orbs".... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoS3nIT2qYo Birds riding a "thermal".... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl46q4aDl4U White seagulls at 1:35 to 1:45, in this vid.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72N3KqLjBrE And note....these videos show high-flying birds as mostly round dots, even when the videographer is TRYING to focus on them. ---------- As a side note, I also found this vid of low-flying birds......pause the vid at nearly any point, and you will see another misunderstood photographic phenomenon, which some people (falsely) claim the existence of "rods".... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXiCa8guBwg&feature=related
Ahh.. yes White seagulls at 1:35 to 1:45, in this vid.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72N3KqLjBrE These objects DO look quite SIMILAR, although there is one main difference.. you can see the birds wings etc.. these orbs are static. no movement
 

Debunk This

Member
As a pilot myself I know there is no such things as "chemtrails" there are no hidden switches or tanks on aircraft. there is no conspiracy, just deluded people who think airlines are spraying the population!
What about all this contrail propaganda appearing in media and more? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0PEOn7TmG0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tccKw2XEceU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s38aNHCjGdc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E10CJUfU2vk I have even noticed similar trails on the LEGO advertisements here in AUS Why flood this shit everywhere?
 
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