Can you identify this?

P

Peter Godman

New Member
I filmed this in my backyard recently using night vision, but have been unable to identify the object or cause.

Some thoughts:

1] The object doesn’t follow the smooth trajectory of a plane or satellite.
2] The lack of industry standard lighting on the object suggests it is neither a drone nor helicopter.
3] The object disappears and reappears under night vision.
4] If anyone has the software to do so, stabilising the video, cropping it and plotting the objects pathway would be very informative.

*filmed on NVG30 in Brisbane, Australia, 13 April, 2024 at 21:13
*the date on the video is incorrect, it should read 13 April, not 12 April
*video is half speed


Is it a plane, satellite, drone, natural phenomena, unknown object, other?
I look forward to reading your thoughts on the object.



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRe3SeGqy6M
 
You are refering to the flashing light near the red X, right? Not the greenish squid-looking steady light over to the left? I don't see an object, I do see an intermittent light. Any reason to think it is NOT a satellite, or string of satellites passing the same general point, flaring?
 
JMartJr said:
You are refering to the flashing light near the red X, right? Not the greenish squid-looking steady light over to the left? I don't see an object, I do see an intermittent light. Any reason to think it is NOT a satellite, or string of satellites passing the same general point, flaring?
Click to expand...

yes, the flashing light near the X

as for satellites, if you have the software we can test that idea...... I dont have the software
 
Peter Godman said:
*video is half speed
Click to expand...

So, when I speed it up and watch closer to real time, it looks a lot like a distant aircraft. The flight path may be a combination of the distances with the movement of the camera and possibly the AC heading toward you before turning.
 
NorCal Dave said:
So, when I speed it up and watch closer to real time, it looks a lot like a distant aircraft. The flight path may be a combination of the distances with the movement of the camera and possibly the AC heading toward you before turning.
Click to expand...

that idea would be easy to test with the right software and know how

plotting the movement would also help, it isnt moving like a plane
 
Peter Godman said:
that idea would be easy to test with the right software and know how

plotting the movement would also help, it isnt moving like a plane
Click to expand...
just hit the "playback" button on FlightRadar24.

i dont know your location so i cant do it for you. (you also need to google the UTC time for your video, as the flight softwares use UTC time)


**although it could just be a drone filming that squid looking thing. what is that squid looking thing anyway?
 
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deirdre said:
just hit the "playback" button on FlightRadar24.

i dont know your location so i cant do it for you. (you also need to google the UTC time for your video, as the flight softwares use UTC time)

**although it could just be a drone filming that squid looking thing. what is that squid looking thing anyway?
Click to expand...

the "squid" is an out of focus star

the object was filmed from the location marked by the red box; whilst looking SWish

flighttrack.png
 
Peter Godman said:
the object was filmed from the location marked by the red box; whilst looking SWish
Click to expand...
Can you check your camera right now against your computer time and see if the camera time is correct?

if you click on any plane it gives you a full flight path. (and plane stats)
ex:
1713396188225.png
 
deirdre said:
Can you check your camera right now against your computer time and see if the camera time is correct?

if you click on any plane it gives you a full flight path. (and plane stats)
ex:
Click to expand...

the times are correct

zoom in on that plane, it is SE of my location, I was looking SWish
 
Peter Godman said:
zoom in on that plane
Click to expand...
i can see that without zooming in. in America not all planes are on radars, esp military planes, sometimes police helicopters arent there and you need to go to the police logs to get that data.

I dont know what Australia is like, if you call the airport right behind you would they tell you that kind of thing? Our small airports are usually not too busy to help ya out.

Otherwise dont know what to tell you, if its a hobby drone we'll have no way of tracking that down.
 
Peter Godman said:
plotting the objects pathway would be very informative.
Click to expand...
Image with the frames aligned below. There were 20 flashes, but only 14 are clearly visible in the aligned image, including the 1st and last, the missing 6 fit in the gaps between registered flashes:

Aligned.jpg

Timestamps for the flashes (in respect to the clock at the bottom of the screen in the footage):

21:13:38, 21:13:41, 21:13:45, 21:13:48, 21:13:52, 21:13:56, 21:13:59, 21:14:03, 21:14:07, 21:14:10, 21:14:14, 21:14:17, 21:14:21, 21:14:28, 21:14:32, 21:14:36, 21:14:39, 21:14:43, 21:14:46, 21:14:50
 
Looks like it's a satellite, specifically Globalstar M36 (NORAD 25623).

Methodology:

- Identified the stars
- Picked a reference star -- Hipparcos 29263 is the one next to the flashes at about 0:07 and 0:16 in the video -- and calculated its position from the approximate ground location
- Calculated the positions of all the satellites in the NORAD catalog around the time of the video (figuring that if the camera time can be wrong by a day, then it can also be wrong by a couple of minutes)
- Filtered for satellites that would be within a degree or so of the reference star

And there's one clear candidate with the right motion.

It might've been easier to just look in Sitrec, but whatever, this is how I've done such things before. Let's see if this link to Sitrec, with TLE loaded, works:

Sitrec link

If not and you have to do it yourself... the first flash appears to happen at around 11:13:07 UTC, and the TLE I used is:

1 25623U 99004C 24104.50217941 -.00000050 00000-0 47560-3 0 9991
2 25623 51.9964 292.8432 0010672 309.1877 66.3075 11.86566882127979
 
john.phil said:
Image with the frames aligned below. There were 20 flashes, but only 14 are clearly visible in the aligned image, including the 1st and last, the missing 6 fit in the gaps between registered flashes:

Aligned.jpg

Timestamps for the flashes (in respect to the clock at the bottom of the screen in the footage):

21:13:38, 21:13:41, 21:13:45, 21:13:48, 21:13:52, 21:13:56, 21:13:59, 21:14:03, 21:14:07, 21:14:10, 21:14:14, 21:14:17, 21:14:21, 21:14:28, 21:14:32, 21:14:36, 21:14:39, 21:14:43, 21:14:46, 21:14:50
Click to expand...

thanks John

eye balling the video gives the impression the flashes are not in a straight line; although this could be the lack of image stability giving the impression

are you confident your trajectory is accurate?

also,

can anything be gleaned from the flash pattern and timing?
3 - 4 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 3 - 4 - 3 - 4 etc
 
Last edited:
Peter Godman said:
are you confident your trajectory is accurate?
Click to expand...
Comparing the first and last frames show no noticeable position deviation. Comparing a random middle frame also shows very good agreement. The stars within the middle of the field of view look reasonably punctual. The peripheral stars with the pronounced coma still have it with minimal ghosting. The antenna and roof look well defined. The alignment looks successful.

Alignment_check.jpg
 
john.phil said:
Image with the frames aligned below. There were 20 flashes, but only 14 are clearly visible in the aligned image, including the 1st and last, the missing 6 fit in the gaps between registered flashes:

Aligned.jpg

Timestamps for the flashes (in respect to the clock at the bottom of the screen in the footage):

21:13:38, 21:13:41, 21:13:45, 21:13:48, 21:13:52, 21:13:56, 21:13:59, 21:14:03, 21:14:07, 21:14:10, 21:14:14, 21:14:17, 21:14:21, 21:14:28, 21:14:32, 21:14:36, 21:14:39, 21:14:43, 21:14:46, 21:14:50
Click to expand...

Now it really looks like a distant aircraft, at least to my eye.
 
i wonder if this sort of flight pattern would make a plane look like it "disappeared"
(seems some planes come in this way to land at the Brisbane big airport. )

Screenshot 2024-04-17 205014.png
 
john.phil said:
Comparing the first and last frames show no noticeable position deviation. Comparing a random middle frame also shows very good agreement. The stars within the middle of the field of view look reasonably punctual. The peripheral stars with the pronounced coma still have it with minimal ghosting. The antenna and roof look well defined. The alignment looks successful.

Alignment_check.jpg
Click to expand...

thank you, yes the trajectory looks correct
 
Last edited:
Peter Godman said:
-- we have nothing on flight radar
Click to expand...

That depends on being very accurate with time, day and direction, and whether the plane in question is "squawking" so that it appears on something like FlightRadar24.

Peter Godman said:
no sound heard
Click to expand...

Yes, but if it's far enough away, you're not going to hear it. You were using Night vision of some sort, so this AC may not have even been visible to the naked eye, let alone heard.

I live under the approach to Sacramento (SMF) and commercial aircraft from the Pacific Northwest come over at about 16,000'. I can usually hear those. I'm also in the flight path for San Fransisco (SFO) to Europe and the middle east. They are higher and maybe I can hear something. Smaller aircraft buzzing around the valley, just appear as blinking lights in the distance.

Peter Godman said:
and the plane appeared seemingly from thin air, traveled a short distance across the sky, then vanished
Click to expand...

Which would be consistent with a plan turning in a way that makes it visible for a while and then turning again to become not visible.

Again, I'm not saying it's an AC for sure, just that sitting on my patio at night I've certainly seen something very similar. A far-off blinking light that appears for a while and then disappears with no sound. Sometimes, if I have my phone handy, I can see that it's a particular aircraft on the Fight Aware app that I use, sometimes not. And with Night vision, I would think you may be able to see very distant AC when they're at certain angles to you.
 
NorCal Dave said:
That depends on being very accurate with time, day and direction, and whether the plane in question is "squawking" so that it appears on something like FlightRadar24.



Yes, but if it's far enough away, you're not going to hear it. You were using Night vision of some sort, so this AC may not have even been visible to the naked eye, let alone heard.

I live under the approach to Sacramento (SMF) and commercial aircraft from the Pacific Northwest come over at about 16,000'. I can usually hear those. I'm also in the flight path for San Fransisco (SFO) to Europe and the middle east. They are higher and maybe I can hear something. Smaller aircraft buzzing around the valley, just appear as blinking lights in the distance.



Which would be consistent with a plan turning in a way that makes it visible for a while and then turning again to become not visible.

Again, I'm not saying it's an AC for sure, just that sitting on my patio at night I've certainly seen something very similar. A far-off blinking light that appears for a while and then disappears with no sound. Sometimes, if I have my phone handy, I can see that it's a particular aircraft on the Fight Aware app that I use, sometimes not. And with Night vision, I would think you may be able to see very distant AC when they're at certain angles to you.
Click to expand...

all valid points Dave

I also expect the NV to pick up the object emitting the light, however that is not the case here, we see only a flash of light
 
Peter Godman said:
perhaps, but:
-- no sound heard
Click to expand...

A temperature gradient - not unheard of after dark - can cause sound from up high to never reach the ground. (I've been in the "middle" of a thunderstorm that was silent, OK, it was two storms surrounding me, but, with lightning-strikes aplenty, absolutely no sound waves reached me from them.)
 
GMassey said:
Looks like it's a satellite, specifically Globalstar M36 (NORAD 25623).
Click to expand...

sounds more convincing than previous proposals

however, are you confident this satellite:

1] travels the same path as indicated in the video?

2] and at the same time as indicated by the video time stamp?
..... the video time stamp is correct +/- 30 seconds; date should be 13th as already mentioned

3] is in the correct position to be reflecting the sun at that time of day; as well as flare (strobe) x20? ……. I have never seen a satellite strobe x20


** but most importantly, where is the satellite?

Typically under night vision a satellite is seen between the flares (strobes), in my video nothing is seen.

Also worth considering,

The light signature shown in my video, which I refer to as a “strobe”, is vastly different to the “flares” I typically see from satellites. A satellite flare typically looks more like this


Source: https://youtu.be/Zih6Py7zTT4?si=ZkNOTOC7eV5XwUoL&t=20
 
Last edited:
Peter Godman said:
I filmed this in my backyard recently using night vision, but have been unable to identify the object or cause.
Click to expand...

Peter Godman said:
Is it a plane, satellite, drone, natural phenomena, unknown object, other?
I look forward to reading your thoughts on the object.
Click to expand...
This looks very much like a flashing satellite to me, rather than the strobe light of an aircraft. I think @GMassey 's methodology above is sound - I'd probably do something similar.

Peter Godman said:
yes I checked

the time is correct, the date was off by 1 day, it should be 13th not 12th
Click to expand...

How accurate was the time? If we have the exact date & time the models should match exactly. Even a few seconds would make a difference.
@Peter Godman - can you check the time on the camera to see what it says today compared against an accurate clock? We could add any offset to our calculations.

you could use https://time.is/
 
flarkey said:
This looks very much like a flashing satellite to me,
Click to expand...

thanks flarkey

yes, if I had to choose between plane and satellite I would choose satellite

however, where is the satellite?

we should be able to see it under night vision (especially at the start), between the flares, but we dont
 
Last edited:
flarkey said:
How accurate was the time? If we have the exact date & time the models should match exactly. Even a few seconds would make a difference.
@Peter Godman - can you check the time on the camera to see what it says today compared against an accurate clock? We could add any offset to our calculations.
Click to expand...

"Even a few seconds would make a difference."

difference in what way?

"can you check the time on the camera"

when adjusting the date, I also adjusted the time, from memory it was +/-30 seconds
 
Peter Godman said:
we should be able to see it under night vision (especially at the start), between the flares, but we dont
Click to expand...
If it's that Globalstar star mentioned before then it might well have been too faint in between flashes. Seems like the faintest star I can make out in the video are around +6 in magnitude, that's brighter than the brightest the sat was predicted to become from your location:

1.png
https://in-the-sky.org/satpasses.ph...900&group=1&anysat=v2&s=GLOBALSTAR+M036&dl=dl

I suppose it's possible it was there all along, only too faint for the NVG to pick up except for the short brighter flashes (which Globalstar sats are known to produce).

Also it would indeed appear that the timestamp in the video might be off by about 30 secs. Maybe even a little bit more. 32 seconds? Something like that.
 
Easy Muffin said:
If it's that Globalstar star mentioned before then it might well have been too faint in between flashes. Seems like the faintest star I can make out in the video are around +6 in magnitude, that's brighter than the brightest the sat was predicted to become from your location:

1.png
Click to expand...

thanks for the link Easy

I easily saw the first couple of flashes with the naked eye, plus another 4 or 5 with the naked eye whilst holding the monocular NV; according to the table I should not have been able to see any of them with the naked eye
 
Unfortunately the flashing/flaring isn't included in the predictions, I assume they're too random. So the magnitudes in the table are only the baseline values, so to speak. They indicate the brightness of the satellite if it weren't flashing. The flashes themselves could be much brighter.

Like these, for example.

 
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