Baltimore Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse

I noticed a few people mentioning the following on Twitter/X. A video of the disaster aftermath appears to show two birds (not seagulls!) flying in front of the wrecked bridge but simply disappearing in mid air.
They're not disappearing "in mid air". They're disappearing exactly at joints in the bridge struts, just the kind of place where they might have had nests. (Watch it at 1/4 speed to see this.) But it may well have been faked, as they look rather large in relationship to the bridge. I don't know what kinds of birds are found around that area.
 
There is an eclipse on April 8th, NASA or someone issued a fyi type warning about increased air traffic. the usual suspects are adding two and two, and getting absolute zero.
There are also worries among the conspiracy minded as states and cities prepare to deal with the huge influx of people, and the possible disruptions to traffic, cell phone systems, and the like. Having been in SC for the last American total eclipse, and seen the traffic across a state grind to a halt for hours after the Big Event, such planning seems just prudent to me...
 
apparently he's all freaked about some solar eclipse..ill have to look what eclipse? i skimmed that part so dont know what he's concerned about.)
The total eclipse will happen on April 8, visible from Texas to Ohio (and including my house in that region, so I will be having out of state guests). It would seem that some religious "end-times" preachers are having a fit about it.
External Quote:

James Lasher writes for the far-right Charisma News:

Scripture draws a distinctly possible connection between the solar eclipse that is going to occur on Apr. 8, and the area in which it will travel, and that is over the New Madrid Fault line.
These signs in the heavens lining up one after another after another, including the coming Jewish holiday of Passover taking place Apr. 22-30, have many fearful that a large-scale event is going to take place some time during or after the eclipse.
I was under the impression that it's the groundhog that's afraid of shadows, not geological fault lines! :D
 
they look rather large in relationship to the bridge. I don't know what kinds of birds are found around that area.
I thought that they were pelicans, before realizing that I'd set the speed on the vid to 1/4, so they were appearing to be doing the "big ol' pelican slow wing flap." At normal speed, they appear to be flapping like smaller birds, meaning they are either well in the foreground, not really near the bridge, or have been added so that they can magically disappear.

I don't think that they land on the bridge, they don't seem to decelerate or go through the "breaking maneuver" big back-peddling wing flaps you'd expect. (Example bird is a pelican because I already looked it up before I decided the video does not show pelicans after all. But whatever the bird, it is going to want to decelerate before coming into contact with a bridge!)


Source: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LkicYNc0JQE?t=4&feature=share
 
They're not disappearing "in mid air". They're disappearing exactly at joints in the bridge struts, just the kind of place where they might have had nests. (Watch it at 1/4 speed to see this.) But it may well have been faked, as they look rather large in relationship to the bridge. I don't know what kinds of birds are found around that area.
They look like some type of cormorants (large black bird near water) to me (as a bird watcher and photographer)

Birds don't just "stop flying" they air brake, change position and approach landing with a different posture.
 
they are geese. March 28th (so not "live" footage) at 8:05 a.m.

they do disappear in high def too, ..note before the red boat scene we dont see the camera pan over there at all. so there is some transition filter effect/splice used.

it is weird though, as after the geese disappear a little black bird flies in from the left briefly before going to the red boat.
there must be a film splice also between the geese and the little black bird from left. when you edit footage and youre trying to get it to fit it to a certain time segment you do just cut boring pieces out of footage at random (at least i always did)

a little white bird flies by just before the geese enter scene and it doesnt disappear. sorry my screen grab sucks.

3-28-2024 2-01-49 PM.jpg


https://archive.org/details/FBC_20240327_120000_Mornings_With_Maria_Bartiromo/start/300/end/360

1711650034125.png

add: to get over to the 8:05 film you need to use the slider on the bottom left of your screen
1711649607679.png
 
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add: and the rudder commands. my rudder video (some boat channel) taught me rudders work better and faster, the faster the boat is going. but even a fast boat it takes a bit of time for the rudder to "work" ie. move the boat.
In reality, rudders work better the faster water is traveling over them. For example, say a boat is going 5kts. There is a certain amount of water going over the rudder due to the 5kt speed plus the push of the water from the propellers. That is why it is prudent for me on my boat to slow down prior to engaging in a turn or entering into potentially hazardous areas as a later increase in speed will have an increased propeller effect (turning sharper in less space) on the turn. If, as in the case of MV Dali the captain orders the engines to reverse, the ship will lose rudder efficiency as the propeller effect is eliminated and the ship starts to slow further reducing water flow over the rudder. Plus "propeller walk" can cause the stern to move right or left on single screwed ships depending on the rotation direction of the propeller. My boat (an Island Packet 31) will walk the stern to port on reverse.

Of note, I have a slip in the inner harbor of Baltimore. My boat is currently outside the bridge, and I am in the process of changing slips as I cannot return to my marina.
 
Birds don't just "stop flying" they air brake, change position and approach landing with a different posture.
You're right, with a large bird. I've seen bank swallows zip into a hole without any perceptible change in speed or posture, but it seems unlikely that a larger bird could do that.
 
Of note, I have a slip in the inner harbor of Baltimore. My boat is currently outside the bridge, and I am in the process of changing slips as I cannot return to my marina.

So, any boat/ship up-stream from the bridge is currently trapped up there for the time being? And any boat/ship downstream can't get back up?
 
So, any boat/ship up-stream from the bridge is currently trapped up there for the time being? And any boat/ship downstream can't get back up?
certainly until they find the last 4 people, i doubt they would let anyone -besides essential personnel- travel the area. and even then it would likely depend on how confident they are the standing bits of bridge wont come down on passing boats.
 
i also think people will have trouble understanding the sizes involved here. the ship was " The ship is about 984 feet long – almost the length of three football fields. At the time of the crash, the Dali weighed 95,000 gross tons" (CNN).

that's insanely big and heavy.
She is also a 9,971 TEU vessel. Most of the containers on her are international 40 foot 2-TEU boxes, so there's likely 4,986 containers. If you started lining them up head to tail, you could make a line of containers stretching from the impact point to a few blocks short of the US Capitol Building.
 
So, any boat/ship up-stream from the bridge is currently trapped up there for the time being? And any boat/ship downstream can't get back up?
Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse Prompts USCG Safety Zone
https://www.waterwayguide.com/knowl...&utm_campaign=news&utm_content=News+3/27/2024

Effective immediately a safety zone is established for all navigable waters of the Chesapeake Bay within a 2000-yard radius of the Francis Scott Key Bridge. The 948-foot Singapore-flagged vessel DALI struck the Francis Scott Key Bridge on March 26, 2024.

The safety zone is intended to protect personnel, vessels, and the marine environment in these navigable waters. No vessel or person will be permitted to enter the safety zone without obtaining permission from the Captain of the Port (COTP) or a designated representative.
 
:( they are suspending all divers for recovery. the water is so dark they can only see about a foot ahead. the debris is too thick to see into. They will begin removing the debris.
 
There are also worries among the conspiracy minded as states and cities prepare to deal with the huge influx of people, and the possible disruptions to traffic, cell phone systems, and the like. Having been in SC for the last American total eclipse, and seen the traffic across a state grind to a halt for hours after the Big Event, such planning seems just prudent to me...

This is also the last total eclipse for most of continental US for the next 20 years, adding to the interest.
 
Re rudders: I thought I read somewhere that rudders (or equivalent devices such as steering oars) don't work at all if a boat is just drifting with the current. They need water to be flowing over them. But I guess if the power cuts out on a large moving vessel it would take a long time before the boat is just drifting.
 
Re rudders: I thought I read somewhere that rudders (or equivalent devices such as steering oars) don't work at all if a boat is just drifting with the current. They need water to be flowing over them. But I guess if the power cuts out on a large moving vessel it would take a long time before the boat is just drifting.
Please read #49
 
Any chance the comorants and eclipse can be removed from this thread?

agree about eclipse, but the comorants is woo associated with bridge. We wont get any new info for 2 to 4 weeks (preliminary report). and 12-24 months for the final investigation report.

i would hope the wiki page (linked in OP) will eventually be updated with less news article sources and more official information.
 
Of note, I have a slip in the inner harbor of Baltimore. My boat is currently outside the bridge, and I am in the process of changing slips as I cannot return to my marina.
Landru, have you found a temporary position for your boat? I'm wondering if there was a lot of competition for the available slips from other stranded vessels.
 
Landru, have you found a temporary position for your boat? I'm wondering if there was a lot of competition for the available slips from other stranded vessels.
I'm probably going to sell it which means changing marinas anyway. Here in the Mid-Atlantic most people either take their boats out of the water for the winter or move south. If they take it out of the water my guess they'll just delay splashing it until a channel is cleared.
 


20:17
This ship has a very slow-speed diesel engine, which is common on many vessels. However, I haven’t been able to ascertain whether this particular ship’s engine is directly connected to the propeller. If it is, there’s an interesting quirk: when starting the engine, you may need to spin it in the opposite direction. Perhaps they’ve turned the engine over and are now attempting to start it in reverse. The key point is that the engine was likely still spinning, with the propeller moving through the water. Consequently, there would have been some movement in the Pistons, albeit minimal.

Now, let’s address the issue of backing down. Some people compare this situation to their own boats, where reversing causes the bow to turn a certain way. However, it’s probable that this vessel never actually went into reverse. I’ve spoken with marine surveyors and engine engineers who concur. Stopping a slow-speed diesel propeller from spinning and reversing its direction takes time—more time than what we’re witnessing here. In a test conducted on a similar-sized vessel at full speed, it took over 9 minutes to transition from full ahead to a complete stop. Considering that our scenario is unfolding in just 4 minutes at approximately half speed, it’s unlikely that this specific action is occurring.

22:04
The ship’s unexpected turn raises questions. Why does this vessel alter its course when there’s minimal wind and current? Let’s explore the factors.

Firstly, I’ve thoroughly examined all possible issues. One noteworthy consideration is the tide. At this moment, there’s a slight outgoing tide, which could provide an explanation for the ship’s behavior. Even though the wind is calm, the tide’s movement might be influencing the ship’s trajectory.

Now, let’s take a closer look at the navigational context. The ship is navigating close to the Curtis Bay channel, marked by a prominent white channel on the marine traffic chart. Notably, the bridge is situated remarkably near the main channel, leaving little room for maneuvering.

The Curtis Bay channel, extending to the left, is where water flows out. If the tide is ebbing (as it was during the full moon), water will be moving away from the ship’s starboard side. This outward flow could exert a lateral force on the vessel, nudging it slightly.

Additionally, there’s a phenomenon called “bow suction.” As the ship moves forward, the bow tends to veer right, while the stern is drawn toward the bank. If the ship is already hugging the left side of the bank, this effect could be amplified. A gentle nudge in the wrong direction might cause the ship to deviate from its intended path.

In an ideal scenario with proper rudder control, a slight adjustment to the left would suffice to maintain the correct course. However, if the ship lacks rudder control, it may continue drifting off track. Perhaps this is one of the underlying issues leading to the unexpected turn.

In summary, understanding the interplay of tides, channel proximity, and bow suction sheds light on why the ship, named Dolly, is behaving this way. With precise rudder adjustments, it could navigate smoothly even under these challenging conditions.
 
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The official unified command site.
https://www.keybridgeresponse2024.com/


ABOUT THIS RESOURCE
This is a site dedicated to the handling of Key Bridge Response 2024. All information presented here is based on the available facts surrounding the incident. For the most up-to-date information and details on the different components of the response please refer to this site. This site is maintained by the Unified Command to provide information to the public on the status of the incident and response. We will continue to keep stakeholders informed through updates on this site. If you would like to receive email updates please subscribe to the incident mailing list.
 
an fbi bomb technician is on site.

8-o

"FBI's there, and look at this - FBI [em]bomb[/em] technition. Wow, hey, this one's gonna trigger all the conspiracy theorists for sure. Haha! You can bet they're gonna be coming out of the woodwork in this one".

*phew*

One of the solutions to this problem is the use of cutting charges, this is the application they're designed for, and I'd want an explosives expert to be overseeing that. As he implies: nothing to see here, float along. Unless I should be saying "brace, brace!" just before the onslaught of said conspiracy theorists...
 
One of the solutions to this problem is the use of cutting charges, this is the application they're designed for, and I'd want an explosives expert to be overseeing that.

more likely he is a supervisor for the fbi dive team we see in the video and just happens to also be a bomb technician. meaning there could very well be no connection to his patch with this particular dive job.

Today, USERT is part of the Evidence Response Team Unit (ERTU) within the FBI Laboratory. USERT divers are based out of the New York, Miami, Los Angeles, and Washington field offices and collaborate on cases across the country. With a total of 64 divers for the program, there are approximately 16 divers in each of the four field offices.

USERT members are not only expert divers—each one joined the FBI as an agent with a broad range of skillsets. Every agent can have a specialized collateral duty, in addition to their other responsibilities, which can take up to 25% of their time. USERT falls under this category, requiring tryouts to make the team and then rigorous training to prepare for the often grueling underwater work.


(the boat bow is "on top" an underwater gas line..but not sure if that's an issue for a bomb technician.)
 
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more likely he is a supervisor for the fbi dive team we see in the video and just happens to also be a bomb technician. meaning there could very well be no connection to his patch with this particular dive job.
Absolutely. To jump to any particular conclusion just from seeing one patch would be an error. Anyway, thank you for pointing us (me) towards that YT channel, it does seem like it has a high fact density, which is what I crave. However, I still think shaped charges (the v-shaped ones we all researched when 9-11 was still a thing) will be the simplest way of breaking the submersed (becaue they work under water) wreckage into towable portions. But I might be wrong.
 
However, I still think shaped charges (the v-shaped ones we all researched when 9-11 was still a thing) will be the simplest way of breaking the submersed (becaue they work under water) wreckage into towable portions. But I might be wrong.

i dont know much about them. There are still 4 souls down there presumedly buried under what needs to be removed, so i guess it depends how destructive those cutting charges are.
 
Anyway, thank you for pointing us (me) towards that YT channel, it does seem like it has a high fact density
they guy in post #65 has some good stuff too. just watched him give an overview of how marine insurance works etc.
 
While sniffing around for dates relevant to the introduction of protective fenders (presumable made from strats) around bridge supports (1991, apparently) I came to the conclusion that perhaps people weren't paying particularly close attention to them:

External Quote:
Guide Specification and Commentary for Vessel Collision Design
of Highway Bridges (1991)
ERRATA (August, 2006)
Since the AASHTO Guide Specification and Commentary for Vessel Collision Design of
Highway Bridges was adopted in 1991, there were no corrections or updates issued.
However, in making the Guide Specification available at this time, the following
corrections to the original document should be noted:

1. Page 4, Figure 1.5-2. In the flowchart at the “Is Bridge Adequate” box, the word
“Yes” to the right of the box should be changed to “No”
, and the word “Yes”
should be added below the box on the line pointing the “Design Complete”.
-- https://downloads.transportation.org/GVCB-1-E1.pdf
Emphasis mine.
 
Chief MAKOi published his evaluation of the accident:

(02:09 - 02:21) - There's a slight difference between the time stamps in the footage and in the VDR transcript;
(02:24 - 02:55) - Blackout causes all machinery to stop. Alarms sound, engine room becomes dark;
(03:50 - 04:09) - The main engine relies on auxiliaries, which require electricity before the engine can be started;
(04:10 - 04:45) - There are usually 3 or 4 big generators on board. 2 (3) are required to power the entire ship, 1 remains on stand-by;
(04:52 - 05:20) - There is also the emergency generator, which starts automatically after 45s (SOLAS requirement). Has its own fuel tank and switchboard, and only powers selected essential equipment and lighting;
(05:45 - 06:00) - The emergency generator cannot restore propulsion, but restores steering;
(06:11 - 06:28) - There are also batteries for radio, computers (UPS) and lights;
(06:37 - 07:01) - The emergency generator took 59s to activate;
(07:15 - 07:56) - The navigation lights are on the emergency switchboard and only activated after 59s. The VDR stopped recording during the period as well;
(08:26 - 09:24) - Black smoke after the emergency generator activation is probably from the big generators, required for restarting the main engine;
(09:34 - 10:08) - Difficult to start the main engine in reverse with the propeller still spinning;
(10:09 - 11:46) - AIS shows ship turned in the wrong direction, thus main engine was off, as rudder requires the propeller's thrust to be effective;
(13:12 - 14:10) - One big generator serves the main engine, the other(s) serve(s) the ship, a third (or fourth) on stand-by, they can be swapped;
(14:11 - 15:17) - All three (4) big generators failed, thus it's either fuel system related, or switchboard related (the latter more improbable due to electrical redundancies, but human error exists);
(15:17 - 17:31) - The black smoke, common fuel line and common fuel tank between generators, make the fuel system related issue more plausible, including human error (not refuelling the tanks, misoperation of valves, switching to wrong tank, contaminated/incorrect fuel);
(17:56 - 18:31) - Second "blackout" did not turn off the navigation lights, thus probably just an attempt to put the big generators on load ahead of main engine restart;
(18:32 - 18:43) - Port anchor dropped due to rudder ineffective, also had no effect;
(18:50 - 19:14) - Blackout again, thus even the emergency generator stopped;
(20:18 - 22:23) - It's the captain's responsibility and the chief engineer too;
(21:23 - 22:38) - Simulator training produces the same catastrophic results most of the time (Kobayashi Maru analogy);
(22:45 - 22:57) - Port regulation requiring tug assistance would most likely have avoided the accident.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxeKXjDVqMA
 
While sniffing around for dates relevant to the introduction of protective fenders (presumable made from strats) around bridge supports (1991, apparently) I came to the conclusion that perhaps people weren't paying particularly close attention to them:

External Quote:
Guide Specification and Commentary for Vessel Collision Design
of Highway Bridges (1991)
ERRATA (August, 2006)
Since the AASHTO Guide Specification and Commentary for Vessel Collision Design of
Highway Bridges was adopted in 1991, there were no corrections or updates issued.
However, in making the Guide Specification available at this time, the following
corrections to the original document should be noted:

1. Page 4, Figure 1.5-2. In the flowchart at the “Is Bridge Adequate” box, the word
“Yes” to the right of the box should be changed to “No”
, and the word “Yes”
should be added below the box on the line pointing the “Design Complete”.
-- https://downloads.transportation.org/GVCB-1-E1.pdf
Emphasis mine.

They're gonna have to go with traffic lights like train crossings, maybe.

He said he's not sure any modern protections would have been enough to withstand a direct hit from a ship the size of the Dali.

"Could we build a Fort Knox, a nuclear bunker in front of a bridge? It's structurally possible, but it's not economically feasible. And so, even in the most extreme bridge protections that we see, at this point, I remain unconvinced that in a similar incident, that they would perform successfully," Schafer said.

That echoed a point raised by U.S. transportation secretary Pete Buttigieg on Tuesday.

"I do not know a bridge that has been constructed to withstand a direct impact from a vessel this size," he said.
 
what is he a chief of? is he an official of this investigation?
From their YT profile

External Quote:

Hello YouTube! My name is Mark and I am a Seafarer by profession. To be specific, I am a Chief Marine Engineer. I also have years of experience as an Educator.This channel will showcase Vlogs mostly about the Seafaring Lifestyle. On occasion I'll also be posting videos related to my work aboard a commercial ship as a Chief Engineer, as well as educational videos and discussions about current events in the maritime industry.If you like my content, please don't hesitate to press the "Like" button. If you want to be updated when I post new videos, hit SUBSCRIBE. I hope you enjoy!
 
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