9/11 Conspiracy Theories: Inside The Lonely Lives Of Truthers, Still Looking For Their Big Break

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
http://www.ibtimes.com/911-conspira...ruthers-still-looking-their-big-break-2091474

An interesting article about the 9/11 Truthers, with a focus on the affect it has on their lives.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member
Honestly.. My heart goes out to anyone going through that. It sucks when your beliefs are looked upon as nutty or you just get the hand waiving dismissal because people dont want to deal with it, or talk about it. Even in the stuff I debunk among friends I get looked at like Im crazy... I get asked why I dont have better things to do with my time.. when you explain to them its because you like knowing how things work they give you that head turn dogs do, roll their eyes and go back to whatever they were doing. The only major difference is when Im around nerds or geeks... then it becomes fun because we have common ground. To the average person, they dont care, it doesnt affect them so they blow it off. The isolation sucks.
 

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Bruno D.

Senior Member
You should add a "sad face" together with the funny face, Mick.

I agree with @Svartbjørn , it doesn't matter what are your beliefs (CTs, aliens, an unorthodox religion, etc), this isolation is just that, sad. You have to choose between silencing / lying about your beliefs and loosing friends / distancing from family. It's a loose loose situation.

And to think that a big part of this is being caused by professional fear-mongering gurus ... it makes me sick.

I would choose the "sad face" for this post.
 

Cube Radio

Member
Speaking as a 9/11 skeptic myself, I can't say this reflects my experience, although I am sorry for those who feel isolated by the knowledge that the events of 9/11 are not properly explained by official channels. I'm happy to talk about it at work, where my colleagues are always interested in issues like insider trading or the collapse of WTC7.

My partner is very understanding and I'll make sure that when our children are old enough they understand how Newton's Third Law makes the collapse of the towers highly questionable, and I'll tell them the history of events like the anthrax attacks. The soccer team I play for all agree that the collapse of WTC7 is incredibly suspect. Only the other day the window cleaner was telling me how dubious the official narrative of 9/11 is, and that was without me prompting him or bringing the subject up. When I told a friend about this on the train to work, the people around us in the carriage grinned in agreement.

I even mentioned it to my representative on the local council and he was not dismissive. I feel as though the environment is generally supportive of the desire to find the truth, and I'm sure that as time passes the knowledge that we've been lied to will become increasingly mainstream.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I feel as though the environment is generally supportive of the desire to find the truth, and I'm sure that as time passes the knowledge that we've been lied to will become increasingly mainstream.
It's been 14 years.

I know it's very serious to you, but I think society is "generally supportive" of truthers in much the same way that they are supportive of Mormons. Most people recognize Mormonism essentially a quirky religion some guy found in a hat while wanting to marry a lot of young women. But we also recognize for the LDS members it's a way of life, and quite a fulfilling and helpful one - a source of community and personal joy. So we don't mock Mormons, we might even listen politely as they explain their religion. Some people might even be converted to Mormonism.

So it is with 9/11 Trutherism. It's quirky belief system, based largely on (perfectly normal) misunderstandings of physics (like your misapplication of Newton's Third Law), and a heightened distrust of people in power. Truthers are part of society, like Mormons are. But they have no Utah, they are always in a minority, and a bit out of place. But people are generally polite to them, just like they are to Mormons.


(And if anyone is a Mormon, I apologize if my analogy offends you, substitute Scientology in in the above :) )
 

Cube Radio

Member
The passage of time is immaterial, and in my view is supportive of the 9/11 skeptics' arguments; the next generation reacts to the footage of the towers exploding just as the people around did when they exploded, which is to say they're unaffected by political influences and say what they see.

What's required for the the official narrative to persist successfully into the future as the dominant myth is a modelling effort that shows how something relatively simple and easy to understand, such as Newton's Third Law, is not violated by the destruction of the towers. Mere mathematics and unverified computer models like the NIST WTC7 effort aren't going to cut it in future.

It's wholly reasonable to expect experimental verification for the official tower collapse theory and it's wholly reasonable to expect the official narrative to be overturned in time if it is not forthcoming. In this sense it is the defenders of the official myth who are like religious people, believing in something that fundamentally does not have experimental verification and as such is without genuinely scientific support.

Please link, though, to the thread here on Metabunk that explains to your satisfaction how Newton's Third Law applies to the towers. It's pretty absurd to imagine the mass above can retain integrity or density sufficient to crush all the way down, which is why I emphasise experimental verification of that theory is necessary if such an idea is going to persist into the future.
 

Cube Radio

Member
Incidentally, it's not that serious to me. We have to enjoy our lives, despite lies about things like anthrax attacks and WMDs originating from corrupt US administrations :)
 

NoParty

Senior Member
...Most people recognize Mormonism essentially a quirky religion some guy found in a hat while wanting to marry a lot of young women.
I've been trying to explain Mormonism to folks for decades...since I first started writing research
papers on Joseph Smith, from back when I was in college (it was "current events" way back then).

But I'm stealing "...quirky religion some guy found in a hat." (Fell off my chair laughing & almost broke my thummim!)
 

NoParty

Senior Member
...footage of the towers exploding just as the people around did when they exploded, which is to say they're unaffected by political influences and say what they see.
Please link, though, to the thread here on Metabunk that explains to your satisfaction how Newton's Third Law applies to the towers. It's pretty absurd to imagine the mass above can retain integrity or density sufficient to crush all the way down, which is why I emphasise experimental verification of that theory is necessary if such an idea is going to persist into the future.
And I'm confident that if the next generation learns Newton's Third Law honestly
(vs. wackadoodle explanations on YouTube) they'll be able to understand the non-exploding of the towers just fine.
 
http://www.ibtimes.com/911-conspira...ruthers-still-looking-their-big-break-2091474

An interesting article about the 9/11 Truthers, with a focus on the affect it has on their lives.
Among the people I hangout with, my view that 19 jihadis highjacked 4 four planes and smashed 3 of them into buildings and one into the ground is frowned upon. These people tend to be loud and impossible to reason so I don't...anymore. I can seriously say I feel as lonely as these Truthers feel when it comes to not being able to connect with people who share a totally different world view then theirs. Fortunately my friends are also big Game of Thrones fan so we can connect on that at least.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm sure that as time passes the knowledge that we've been lied to will become increasingly mainstream.
The passage of time is immaterial
These two statements seem be in conflict.

Please link, though, to the thread here on Metabunk that explains to your satisfaction how Newton's Third Law applies to the towers.
It does not apply to the towers, as it's a law about point masses. This has been explained multiple times, but is off topic here. Feel free to continue the discussion on one of these threads:
https://www.google.com/search?num=50&es_sm=119&q="point+masses"+site%3Ametabunk.org
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
And more generally, please don't let this thread get sidetracked into discussing particular 9/11 points. There's almost certainly a thread for that.
 

Bruno D.

Senior Member
The passage of time is immaterial, and in my view is supportive of the 9/11 skeptics' arguments; the next generation reacts to the footage of the towers exploding just as the people around did when they exploded, which is to say they're unaffected by political influences and say what they see.
Actually what's going to happen is exactly what already happened with JFK assassination (52 years), moon landing (46 years), Princess Diana (18 years) and so many others. There are going to be a small group of people who firmly believe the Conspiracy Theory, there is going to be some debunking efforts and myth busting, and there is going to be a lot of surveys saying that 10% to 20% of the people don't believe the fact, but the great majority of the people will either dismiss it or not be interested.

Why would 9/11 be different? It's exactly the same thing as the other Conspiracy Theories. 9/11 (14 years), Katrina (10 years), Sandy Hook (3 years), Boston Bombing (2 years), etc.

Some years from now, new ones will popup. Every attack, every accident, every tragedy is a Conspiracy, and all of them have the same fate: some will believe them, some will debunk them, a lot will dismiss or ignore them. It's just a matter of analyzing history.

All in all, it's good that you are not lonely, but it's bad that you are spreading the bunk. It's even sadder that you intend to put that into the mind of young children that will not have a chance to think by themselves. But it happened in the past with the old CTs, and will happen in the future with the new CTs, and it's not up to you or me to change that. This is a free country after all.
 

Cube Radio

Member
It's even sadder that you intend to put that into the mind of young children that will not have a chance to think by themselves.
I would love to show my children an experimental model that validates the collapse theory you are so sad to see interrogated. Where is it? Let us move from this thread to that one.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
I've found that when I explain chemtrails to people they look at me with the same incredulous, puzzled look they give me when I explain what Scientologist believe. I suppose some may be curious and/or think there may be something to the engram thing, but it's not like they all of a sudden have an epiphany. Just like if I explain chemtrails, a few comment that they think there's something to it, those clouds must be pollution. People hearing something for the first time sometimes think about what you said. Doesn't mean they believe it or are going to dive into it.
 

Gretchen

New Member
The demolition claim does seem to be one of the most enduring, probably because it's a dramatic visual when accompanied by a soberly convincing narrative on YouTube. The fact that y'all are talking about making models seems to bear this up. Jenga might work.
Putting aside the validity of the physics - and this is a point someone/many made elsewhere - let's just cut to the 'Why?'
Was the complete collapse of both towers absolutely essential to the aims of the conspiracy, like an exploding car is essential to the drama in an action movie?

On the loneliness, the two most committed CTs I know personally happen to be the most insular and emotionally dysfunctional of my friends. Another friend who is very interested in CTs but absolutely willing to discuss and question them with me has had successful relationships.
All very anecdotal of course and riddled with confirmation bias but hey, I'm only human. :cool:
 

Bill Isaacs

New Member
http://www.ibtimes.com/911-conspira...ruthers-still-looking-their-big-break-2091474

An interesting article about the 9/11 Truthers, with a focus on the affect it has on their lives.
I can only account for my own experiences with this topic. I'm not lonely, and my friends are not all 911/Truthers. It's mainly about presenting the evidence that you believe is factual and in contradiction of the NIST report (that is rather like shooting fish in a barrel, I'll admit). If you go off half-cocked because you want to believe that there was a conspiracy, but don't know how to vet evidence, you will be a lonely nut in the corner of a coffee house. There are a lot of nutty theories out there (including one which espouses the use of small nukes, which this theory claims would account for the vaporization of the radio mast -- you know, the one which is NOT vaporized and sits in the 9/11 museum this day), but there is a very strong body of evidence that is not nutty. See Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth.

My point is, I respect your guidelines but can't see the lack of balance in your post about 9/11 "Truthers" being lonely cut outs in society. Undoubtedly a few of them are, but most are not in my experience. Besides, you'd have to include a barrel full of the victims' family members if you intend for your characterization to be a broad brush.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member
My point is, I respect your guidelines but can't see the lack of balance in your post about 9/11 "Truthers" being lonely cut outs in society. Undoubtedly a few of them are, but most are not in my experience. Besides, you'd have to include a barrel full of the victims' family members if you intend for your characterization to be a broad brush.
Sure - except this is from an article, remember, not necessarily what anyone here is characterizing them as.

I know of a few CT believers in both camps, some who are "socially challenged" and one or two others who just seem to buy into a theory here or there because "it just looks dodgy".

I don't think the article is trying to claim that all CT's are lonely, paranoid types with nothing better to do.
 

BombDr

Senior Member
I know of a few CT believers in both camps, some who are "socially challenged" and one or two others who just seem to buy into a theory here or there because "it just looks dodgy".
I think I get most frustrated with the 'it just looks dodgy' explanation too.

Unfortunately I have less sympathy for CTs as my experience is one of vague claims, that when I point out the problem with that claim moves swiftly on to 'what about....'.

The other thing that boils my piss is when they link a Youtube video to back up their claims. The phraseology of the CT world has stuck and repeated verbatim as if it means something or established facts:

Free fall speed
Controlled demolition
Nano thermite
No building has ever collapsed by fire
Air defence stood down
Most heavily defended airspace in the world
$2.3Trillion
Sheeple
Hijackers found alive
Passport found in pristine condition
Pyroclastic
etc...


I don't advocate mockery or ostracisation of CTs, but when one gets to a point that black is white, then there is no point in discussion further as no answer will satisfy if their beliefs are also convenient to their inherent world view.
 

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
I have not seen any activity around this year's 9/11 anniversary that drew a hundred truthers or more. What a pathetically marginal group this is!
I'm not sure that is a valid point. To protest around memorials [of thousands] of people dying is absolutley vile. Memorials are about mourning the people lost, not HOW the people died or some political rant about evil government.

I dont think the vast majority of CTs are vile to the extent of disrespecting Memorials. That would be like Westboro Church level of disrespectful.
 

Oystein

Senior Member
I'm not sure that is a valid point. To protest around memorials [of thousands] of people dying is absolutley vile. Memorials are about mourning the people lost, not HOW the people died or some political rant about evil government.

I dont think the vast majority of CTs are vile to the extent of disrespecting Memorials. That would be like Westboro Church level of disrespectful.
Truthers have gathered in Ney York on the 9/11s of every year - their turnout was larger in the past.
There are no other days when Truthers come out in significant numbers anymore.
(Actually, some of the presentations Gage gave in Europe last April and May drew several hundred fans)
 

NoParty

Senior Member
...I'm not lonely, and my friends are not all 911/Truthers. It's mainly about presenting the evidence that you believe is factual and in contradiction of the NIST report (that is rather like shooting fish in a barrel, I'll admit). ...9/11 "Truthers" being lonely cut outs in society...
First, I'm eager to hear the easy list of NIST contradictions you've compiled...many previous assertions
by some others turned out to be empty promises...but do a quick site search, here, first, to make sure
you know what's already been covered (many points have been beaten to death, years ago).

Second, I've seen "truthers" all over the spectrum, from guys who say "Well, I don't pretend to
know what exactly happened that day, but I wouldn't put anything past that Bush clown,"
who
is otherwise pretty average, re. employment, family and social life...
to sad, extreme folks way, way down the rabbit hole, who think Loose Change & The Matrix are documentaries,
and that "9/11 is just the tip of the iceberg" because virtually every news event is "really a false flag"
because...uh...reasons. These people seem to alienate themselves from just about everyone who
won't buy in to the wacky narratives...so they keep returning to the small corner of the internet
that will assure them that all their fears are reasonable. :( It's sad, and I'm glad that's not you.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member
Occasionally a conspiracy theory comes up at work, be it 9/11, London subway, Nibiru.... and others look at me for comment. I explain the gist of what conspiracy is supposed to be and usually get sa " that is nutty!" type response.
Latest was a vicsim thing, though I don't recall wrt to what. I explained that there are people who believe this about 9/11 and Boston Marathon, for instance. The comment from one coworker" that's insane"
 

JRBids

Senior Member
I get the same thing. "I've heard about the 9/11 thing but CHEMTRAILS/CRISIS ACTORS/NIBURU? That's crazy!" Occasionally with chemtrails it's "well it can't be good to have all that exhaust up there" "or it can't be good to have those clouds block the sun."
 

CeruleanBlu

Active Member
http://www.vancouversun.com/technol...resigns+after+questioning/11397717/story.html

Another article about the affect conspiracist belief has on the lives 9/11 Truthers, with this political candidate from Canada publicly apologizing for offending people with her beliefs, before quitting.

 

benthamitemetric

Senior Member
It's a vicious cycle of sorts. People start adopting conspiracy theory beliefs for a combination of social/political reasons, their friends push them away a little in response, they meet new friends online who believe the same thing, and eventually they become too invested in their new social/political identity to go back to their old way of thinking. The natural tides flow against escaping from such a mindset as more fervent belief simultaneously causes one to become more ostracized from the mainstream at the same time that fellow believers offer support and insulation from such ostracization. From time to time, I will get in a lengthy back-and-forth with a conspiracy theorist online somewhere and I realize that, even though I am well aware of the nature of their cognitive affliction, I still cannot help myself from being snide and condescending in a way that likely only serves to reinforce their beliefs. In my world (corporate law) you explain things thoroughly and politely at first, but you do sometimes have to resort to bluntness if intransigence and/or illogical thinking are mucking up a deal. The old shot across the bow to get everyone snapped back to reality and focused. In my experience, that style never works with conspiracy theorists, yet I still let myself get bated into doing it time and again (e.g., "we've just concluded that you were completely wrong about X and now you are changing the subject to Y; are you really too stupid/ignorant/nonthinking/etc. to see that our conclusion on X, being contrary to the previous basis for your beliefs, ought to have some impact on your beliefs? no? really?"). It's easy to see how these individuals wind up feeling isolated, and it is sad.
 

NoParty

Senior Member
This isn't 9/11 but chemtrails. I guess they are willing to give up everything also.View attachment 15230
I'm not sure which is sadder:

The account Sean gives,

or his thinking that--via social media--enough people will see him as "doing the right thing" to counter
the staggering humiliation of having your wife leave you...and insulting your intelligence, too. :oops:
 

nivek

New Member
This thread here is for discussion the article about supposed social isolation in truthers.
Indeed, many of these 'truthers' isolate themselves by being overbearing, ignorant of physics and facts, and generally think those who do not subscribe to their beliefs are brainwashed idiots...
 

NoParty

Senior Member
Indeed, many of these 'truthers' isolate themselves by being overbearing, ignorant of physics and facts, and generally think those who do not subscribe to their beliefs are brainwashed idiots...
I sincerely don't want to sound harsh (or repetitive), but so often when I'm reading the words of such people,
the phrase "Dunning-Kruger! Dunning-Kruger!" keeps popping into my head.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/al-laique/snRg3X6AqAE

On the whole, the body of competent scientists would be expected to pretty accurately assess
their own competence, or maybe even slightly underestimate themselves.

Many truthers, on the other hand, seem to have no grasp of the essential physics or facts, and seem to
presume that the scientists are working on a similarly shabby foundation, which of course, is not true.
In short, they can't see that they can't see.



(It appears that this is true for the main body of truthers...for the small subset that make "truther" claims,
though--on paper at least--they should understand the science better, there are probably a variety of
motives driving their opposition to "the official story.")
 
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nivek

New Member
(It appears that this is true for the main body of truthers...for the small subset that make "truther" claims,
though--on paper at least--they should understand the science better, there are probably a variety of
motives driving their opposition to "the official story.")
This is a good point, there could be many underlying issues, personal or not, which drives their motivation and deep rooted belief system(s) which I might add may have nothing to do with the events of 911 nor the US government...In my experience there are many 'truthers' who also do not accept the fact man landed on the moon either and follow a variety of other alleged conspiracies which furthers their self-imposed isolation...
 
Sure - except this is from an article, remember, not necessarily what anyone here is characterizing them as.

I know of a few CT believers in both camps, some who are "socially challenged" and one or two others who just seem to buy into a theory here or there because "it just looks dodgy".

I don't think the article is trying to claim that all CT's are lonely, paranoid types with nothing better to do.
Identifying formerly with the conspiracy theory camp, I can certainly attest to feeling lonely at times; bored, and not intellectually stimulated by much. However, not for a lack of relationships or things to do. I have a wife, children, family - as well as one or two close confidants.

I do suffer from social awkwardness a bit, but not so much that it's been a debilitating handicap in my adult years. I'm a highly introverted, emotive, and introspective person - but horribly susceptible to trickery. I'll be the first to admit that when I would think with my emotions - or with fear - I was extremely gullible and open to deception. This may or may not be true for 9/11 Truthers. It definitely was for me.

During my brief period of conspiracy belief, my brother essentially told me I was bonkers on the phone. My father thought I was nuts when I showed up with a KJV bible for him to have (I was a proponent of KJV ONLY at the time) telling him the blood moon apocalypse was nigh and he needed to "get right with the Lord". If it wasn't so crazy, it might be funny. Actually, it is sort of funny in hindsight.

I hope I didnt stray too far from the subject at hand and the reply I gave wasn't overly verbose. To summarize: There is a certain melancholy and loneliness that's unique to conspiracy theorists because of the views that they hold.
 

benben

New Member
First post here

I have a few friends on the fringe of believing certain conspiracies. Discussions can be quite interesting sometimes. For the most part, they are normal, intelligent people. But I have one friend who's gone completely off the deep end with chemtrails.

This particular lad posts a continuous barrage of bunk on Facebook daily. The 46 common friends we had on FB is now down to 3. You cannot discuss anything with him if you don't agree with him, as it will turn into an argument, every time.

If he sends me a video like "chemtrail whistleblower adresses UN", I'll try to explain why if every word of the title is misleading, then how can you believe what comes after? He simply points to another video or to pics he took of the sky. And now he supposedly feels sick from these chemicals (I was born asthmatic and am not affected like he is, strange)

Anyhoo, the point of this post is that well, he's becoming increasingly isolated, attacking all his former friends because they (and I) are sheep, need to wake up etc ...

It's sad to see this formerly physically active, cheerful person become angry, irrational, isolated and fearing everything. It drives me nuts to see what guys like Micheal J Murphy, Dane Wiggington and others are doing to these people with their lies.
 

benben

New Member
Just after writing that post, I saw a thread about Michael J Murphy's new film ... in this thread was a link to a FB page and there, the first thing to catch my eye? Posts from my real life chemtrail friend ... Anyone replying to him is attacked, called a name, and then "BLOCK HIM". Such nice tactics LOL

This is why I love this forum. It's for discussion. As long as you act respectably, anyone can post, even the ct believers.
 
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SmokeHillFarm

New Member
This is a good point, there could be many underlying issues, personal or not, which drives their motivation and deep rooted belief system(s) which I might add may have nothing to do with the events of 911 nor the US government...In my experience there are many 'truthers' who also do not accept the fact man landed on the moon either and follow a variety of other alleged conspiracies which furthers their self-imposed isolation...
I have often noticed that belief in conspiracies is much like birth defects -- it usually comes in multiples.

After wasting uncountable hours on Youtube over the past dozen years (basically trying to inject a bit of sanity so that younger, more naïve viewers at least get both sides of the argument), it seems to me that the typical 9/11 Truther believes in MANY other rather peculiar conspiracies: chemtrails, JFK assassination plots, deliberate public poisoning by vaccines, Illuminati, Bilderbergers, alien visitations, and the ever-popular "Jewish Banking Cabal Controls the World." And often they tie them together in marvelously inventive ways.

I fully expect someday to find a Truther describing how JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald were seen lounging on some beach in Indonesia with Banana Daquiris, laughing at how their hoax allowed them to consummate their love in secret.

It's easier to swallow than the No-planer fantasies, or mini-nukes, or super ninja nano-thermite.
 
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