I fail to see the relevance of the distinction. Surely their actions throughout are a good indicator of whether or not they were behind the Ghouta attack in terms of releasing CW's. Please elaborate.
There is a strong case to be made that both sides have the propensity to do terrible things, I absolutely agree. But the discrepancy is not in their propensity, but in their
capability to do such a thing with any effectiveness on such a large scale. Occam's razor points squarely at the SA.
Oxymoron said:
We have seen official reports produced by accredited Russian Chemical Weapons inspectors which clearly states, (with good reason.. namely the gas was home made and the delivery system was home made as well and the type used by the rebels), why the CW attacks actually came from 'the rebels'
Are you referring to the DND article? That was from before the Ghouta attack. I would like some independent corroboration of those claims as well, no sources were provided. But it's besides the point, anyways, the previous chemical weapons incidents in Syria were miniscule in comparison to the Ghouta attack.
Oxymoron said:
You think, the U.S think, Joe blogs thinks it likely... WTF. Are you seriously justifying the use of hundreds of missiles which will likely kill thousands of people on the basis of 'I think, they think'?
It is absolute madness. Whatever happened to getting evidence and what about entering into diplomatic talks specifically on the subject of CW's? And where are these 'intercepted messages', who are they from and to and what do they say and how were they obtained and why are they not brought forward for analysis?
Let's be realistic - even if the strikes were on the scale of the NATO strikes in Libya, in all likelihood the collateral damage would not reach into the thousands. While I'd prefer
no strikes and
no collateral damage, there's no need for hyperbole here.
Oxymoron said:
That is ridiculous. Safety of the inspectors was the responsibility of the Syrian Govt and they were under sniper fire and who knows what else. It didn't take them long to get their samples and they themselves were happy that they got the necessary evidence... they just haven't had time to properly analyse it and write a report. But no the U.S wanted its lightning strike last wekend even whilst the inspectors were still there.
So, the rebels are capable of pulling off this attack, but the government couldn't have fabricated some issues to deny the UN inspectors access for 3 days, shelling the area during that period, and shortening the time they were allowed to ~1.5 hours. Talk about doublethink, in this case the little guy
must have orchestrated this false flag and the government is really the good guy taking the fall.
In fact, let's apply your logic to the sniper attack on the convoy. It would be silly for the rebels to have attacked the UN convoy, seeing as they want the inspectors to see the affected area whether or not it was staged. The case for it being an accident is slim, seeing as the convoy was white, new SUVs with clear UN labels on them.
Please, share with me the commentary from the UN inspectors illustrating how pleased they were with the SA's accommodations.
Oxymoron said:
That didn't stop them from taking out the WTC's did it? So why cannot 'in your opinion', a small group set off some CW's, which you agree they likely have and are capable of manufacturing anyway?
I agreed that it's possible they have them, not that they were capable of manufacturing them or using them effectively. Sarin is difficult to make well, even by competent individuals. When it's impure, it's not very effective. Look into these incidents and note the perpetrators all had masters and postdocs in medicine and physics and carried out their attacks in the subways of the most densely populated city in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsumoto_incident
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway
CWs are an incredibly dangerous thing to store and handle, let alone use. The DND article demonstrates the danger. I think it's unlikely they not only managed to effectively use the weapons but pulled off an attack of this scale in such a manner that it effectively frames the SA. CW are tricky to use with any effectiveness.
Oxymoron said:
So 'you don't think' they could do it? You don't think they are organised enough? I thought they were the No1 menace on the planet and that is why we needed the War on Terror to stamp them out. Not going very well that, is it? Terrorists growing in numbers and power exponentially. 'I think' the War on Terror is a waste of time, unless there is an ulterior motive and it is really a War on The People in which everyone is surveilled and watched as if they were a terrorist... all apart from the actual terrorists that is.
But these are special terrorists, deadly and dedicated and capable of nuking the U.S one minute and tearing a countries infrastructure to pieces fighting a powerful Syrian army but at the same time being so nebulous and dumb they couldn't organise a p... up in a brewery the next. Just what the doctor ordered... tailor made 'Universal Terrorists' on demand. The ultimate 'plausible deniability'
There's a lot of fluff here that suggests a misunderstanding of what Terrorism is and what qualifies someone as a Terrorist. Noone is claiming that there is this monolithic entity known as the terrorists who are all working in cohesion together against the west. It's disparate entities, in many cases directly conflicting each other. It seems that's your interpretation of harsh laws and the erosion of civil rights in the name of fighting "terrorism"(which, like yourself, I totally disagree with - but I recognize the distinction between the
actuality of terrorism and the abuse of the term for political reasons).
They don't all target the west, in fact most of the deadliest attacks since 9/11 did not occur in the west.
Oxymoron said:
Stores have been found. The Turkish Army captured 4KG of Sarin from the rebels in April which was enough to kill millions. All they need to do is tell some young or dumb fighters to carry this and load that and fire the other and hey presto... who cares if they die as well they are simply unwitting martyrs... Allah Ahkbar or whatever.
This is a gross oversimplification of what it takes to employ Sarin. Sources I've read indicate that chemical rockets were found in the affected areas, which are among the few delivery methods fitting the description of the scale of the attack. I doubt whatever group of rebels which you're suggesting pulled off this false flag would not only have the equipment and training necessary but were allowed into SA controlled areas in order to fire them to begin with, resulting in the SA being framed.
What I'd
really like to know is, given that these rebel groups are supported by NATO and oh-so-capable enough to pull of a false flag attack on this scale, why they didn't hit the ball out of the park? There's more than enough CW in Syria to kill everyone there. Surely a bigger attack over a longer period of time would have done more to convince the outside world to intervene.