Is there a conspiracy around chemical weapons attacks in Syria

Oxymoron

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High in even the mainstream media is the news of chemical attacks in Syria and the resulting dangers of an escalation in war in the area. But who is responsible and why?

The finger is being pointed to Assad by the West even though there is a distinct lack of proof at this time. In fact there is much evidence that the 'rebels', could actually be the perpetrators. Finds of chemical munitions (supplied by Saudi Arabia) have been made in areas recently taken from rebel forces.

So is there a conspiracy to instigate direct action by the U.S in Syria as per PNAC aims?

Preparations appear underway with U.S Naval forces building up in the Med and Obama is under pressure to intervene even though responsibility for the attack is not clear.

Also interesting is the statement that 'If it is proved that the Syrian Gov are responsible, a red line will have been crossed'. However there is no reciprocal warning if it is found that the attack is by 'rebel forces'.
http://news.yahoo.com/syria-accuses-rebels-using-chemical-weapons-141457992.html
http://rt.com/op-edge/syria-gas-attack-chemical-propaganda-796/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-arabia-tries-to-woo-russia-away-from-syria-with-arms-deal/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/15/us-syria-crisis-arms-idUSBRE97E0QH20130815
http://iransaudisyria.com/2013/syria-naval-base-blast-points-to-israeli-raid/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-arabia-tries-to-woo-russia-away-from-syria-with-arms-deal/
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I have not read it like that. I have interpreted it as they need more info hence the UN and Russia pushing for inspections.
 

Oxymoron

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I have not read it like that. I have interpreted it as they need more info hence the UN and Russia pushing for inspections.
Hope you are right.

Do you not find the disparity between ('If it is proved that the Syrian Gov are responsible, a red line will have been crossed'. However there is no reciprocal warning if it is found that the attack is by 'rebel forces'.), of concern.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Hope you are right.

Do you not find the disparity between ('If it is proved that the Syrian Gov are responsible, a red line will have been crossed'. However there is no reciprocal warning if it is found that the attack is by 'rebel forces'.), of concern.
Of course I do and I am very cynical. However I am pretty certain that if it was not Assad action will be taken. While the MSM may be posturing about US policy you need to remember the Russians. I think people are taking their lead.

To me this could be a good opportunity for the UN to step up to the crease.
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
Do you not find the disparity between ('If it is proved that the Syrian Gov are responsible, a red line will have been crossed'. However there is no reciprocal warning if it is found that the attack is by 'rebel forces'.), of concern.
Given that the US position on the Syrian conflict (mirrored by many allies) desires to see the Assad regime out of power, I don't see how the statement is a surprise. Even if it were somehow traced to opposition forces, which I think is unlikely -- I doubt that the White House and State Department would be thrilled to learn of rebel forces using chemical munitions, however I wouldn't expect to see a warning directed at the faction they support.
 

Oxymoron

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Given that the US position on the Syrian conflict (mirrored by many allies) desires to see the Assad regime out of power, I don't see how the statement is a surprise. Even if it were somehow traced to opposition forces, which I think is unlikely -- I doubt that the White House and State Department would be thrilled to learn of rebel forces using chemical munitions, however I wouldn't expect to see a warning directed at the faction they support.
I think you are likely right.

There was a good debate on Al Jazeera over who was responsible but I cannot find it on their site or YT. U.S senator assigning likelihhod of blame strongly to Assad Gov whilst dismissing evidence that it could easily be rebels.

Turkey found enough Sarin in rebel hands back in April (4kg), to kill 4 million people but even that seems difficult to find on the net.

Here is a YT video purportedly showing rebels practising with nerve agent, (probably Sarin) on rabbits.


I don't know who is responsible any more than most people but it seems like a good idea to check iy out thoroughly before aiding Al Nousra, (Al Qaeda) to depose Assad and plunge Syria into another Iraq or Libya with millions dead and wounded.

McCain obviously wants to get stuck in.

No one can ever know that they understand something.
They can only hope that they understand.
 
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Oxymoron

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http://www.blacklistednews.com/Syri...ck;_US_Says_"Too_Late'/28384/0/38/38/Y/M.html

 

cosmic

Senior Member.
Here is a YT video purportedly showing rebels practising with nerve agent, (probably Sarin) on rabbits.
There's of course good reason to treat claims aired on Syrian state television with skepticism due to the propaganda battle being waged. The same can unfortunately be said for the opposition's attempts to counter the state with their own. It all really underscores the dire need for UN/independent investigation before the conflict escalates any further.
 

Oxymoron

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There's of course good reason to treat claims aired on Syrian state television with skepticism due to the propaganda battle being waged. The same can unfortunately be said for the opposition's attempts to counter the state with their own. It all really underscores the dire need for UN/independent investigation before the conflict escalates any further.
I think this argument is well put.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/US_Set_to_Launch_‘Iraq,_The_Sequel’_in_Syria/28383/0/38/38/Y/M.html
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
I think this argument is well put.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/US_Set_to_Launch_‘Iraq,_The_Sequel’_in_Syria/28383/0/38/38/Y/M.html
There really is not enough evidence either way, and this information asymmetry is made worse by the propaganda coming from both sides.

I have to take issue with this news site, however. Several claims they make are either unsupported or outright wrong. For example,

Errr, any supporting evidence to this? Firstly, there have been more than a handful of chemical weapons attacks in Syria in recent weeks(not just one or two). Secondly, we have no idea where the UN inspectors are staying in Damascus, and saying that the attacks were just a few miles away from where they were absolutely needs to be corroborated in order for it to be a remotely relevant or even useful tidbit of information. Syria is, as has been pointed out before, literally swimming in chemical weapons, it's entirely possible that both sides are using them.

This is absolutely not true, see here.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I think this argument is well put.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/US_Set_to_Launch_‘Iraq,_The_Sequel’_in_Syria/28383/0/38/38/Y/M.html
Has not a great deal of the reporting come from Medecin sans frontieres? I would say they are totally reliable.
 

ColtCabana

Senior Member
You can cherry pick enough evidence to make a conspiracy about absolutely anything you can think of, no matter how absurd.
 

Oxymoron

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You can cherry pick enough evidence to make a conspiracy about absolutely anything you can think of, no matter how absurd.
So you have the proof that Assad Gov did it then do you? And what happens after the U.S hawks send in 200 missiles and the U.K sends in 2 (just to say... yeah we agree... can we have a pat on the head now?) Of course it will "be legal" as it is "humanitarian aid". And the band played believe it if you like. It's all 'black and white' to you Colt isn't it?
 

ColtCabana

Senior Member
So you have the proof that Assad Gov did it then do you? And what happens after the U.S hawks send in 200 missiles and the U.K sends in 2 (just to say... yeah we agree... can we have a pat on the head now?) Of course it will "be legal" as it is "humanitarian aid". And the band played believe it if you like. It's all 'black and white' to you Colt isn't it?
If you give me twenty minutes, I could have enough evidence that velociraptors discovered America after taking control of the Death Star.

My point is that to conspiracy theorists, nothing ever just happens. It's all apart of some giant plan that they cherry pick evidence to support. When your first instinct is "this must be a false flag and I'm going to prove it" then you have obvious cognitive issues.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
So Assad didn't do it? Just like Sadam and Quadafi never killed any of their people. Or if they did, the 'West made them do it."
 

Oxymoron

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So Assad didn't do it? Just like Sadam and Quadafi never killed any of their people. Or if they did, the 'West made them do it."
Do you have any proof he did... because if you do I am sure the U.N would be very interested in hearing from you. But no you don't do you. All you have is your usual baseless accusations and an extraordinary eagerness to 'bring freedom' with rockets and drones, iris scans and dna databases and 'well yeah you expect collateral damage don't you'...cavalier attitude.
 
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Oxymoron

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If you give me twenty minutes, I could have enough evidence that velociraptors discovered America after taking control of the Death Star.

My point is that to conspiracy theorists, nothing ever just happens. It's all apart of some giant plan that they cherry pick evidence to support. When your first instinct is "this must be a false flag and I'm going to prove it" then you have obvious cognitive issues.
Well of course " nothing ever just happens. It's all apart of some giant plan". If you think it 'all just happens with no thought and planning'... well what can I say.
 

ColtCabana

Senior Member
Well of course " nothing ever just happens. It's all apart of some giant plan". If you think it 'all just happens with no thought and planning'... well what can I say.
Oh, wow! A conspiracy theorists taking something someone says entirely out of context. That's a new one!

My point is that conspiracy theorists don't ever consider the possibility that this world has a few sick individuals who wish to do harm to others. EVERY SINGLE large scale attack or event is part of some plan designed by the government/Illuminati/New World Order/j00z/whatever buzz word it is this week.
 

Oxymoron

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Oh, wow! A conspiracy theorists taking something someone says entirely out of context. That's a new one!

My point is that conspiracy theorists don't ever consider the possibility that this world has a few sick individuals who wish to do harm to others. EVERY SINGLE large scale attack or event is part of some plan designed by the government/Illuminati/New World Order/j00z/whatever buzz word it is this week.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.
 

Oxymoron

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There really is not enough evidence either way, and this information asymmetry is made worse by the propaganda coming from both sides.
Exactly, so is that a proper basis to go to war with a country which is thousands of miles away and is no threat to you... 'because they may have chemical weapons from Saudi Arabia (your ally), in their underpants? You have seen the result of the U.S warmongering and disgraceful ineptitude and horrors that it has brought.

I have to take issue with this news site, however. Several claims they make are either unsupported or outright wrong. For example,
Content from external source
Somehow we are supposed to believe that within 72 hours after the arrival of a UN chemical weapons inspection team to assess — with the Syrian government’s cooperation — the sites of previous claimed chemical weapons attacks, that same Syrian government would launch a chemical weapon attack on civilians just miles from where the UN inspectors are staying.
Errr, any supporting evidence to this? Firstly, there have been more than a handful of chemical weapons attacks in Syria in recent weeks(not just one or two). Secondly, we have no idea where the UN inspectors are staying in Damascus, and saying that the attacks were just a few miles away from where they were absolutely needs to be corroborated in order for it to be a remotely relevant or even useful tidbit of information.
That is entirely accurate and reported by all news sources

Syria is, as has been pointed out before, literally swimming in chemical weapons, it's entirely possible that both sides are using them.
So what, loads of countries have chemical weapons... they were even supplied by Saudi Arabia. Perhaps both sides are using them... no one knows but what is not in doubt is Cameron & co and the U.S are chaffing at the bit to get stuck in and fuel another bloodbath because they know that 'when there is blood on the streets, there is vast amounts of money to be made'.
This is absolutely not true, see here.
That is dealing with the reaction to the initial 'bloodless coup'. The U.S is still funding the military junta despite the irrefutable evidence of there shooting unarmed civilians in the thousands.
 

Oxymoron

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Conspiracy Theorists Mind Set:

Terrorist Attack? Government did it.
Assassination? Government did it.
I stubbed my toe? Government did it.

Get it?
No I don't get it... we are discussing the U.S and U.K going to war, yet again, with yet another M.E country which was on its wish list PNAC. No one cares about your toe. It is no conspiracy theory it is a conspiracy fact. Do you have proof that Assad has used chemical weapons and 'the rebels' haven't?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
So basically at this point, they're 100% sure it was Assad to blame (says VP Biden, via CNN report I just read), and they've already moved warships with cruise missile into place, ready to strike whenever. They're just waiting on the word.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So basically at this point, they're 100% sure it was Assad to blame, and they've already moved warships with cruise missile into place, ready to strike whenever. They're just waiting on the word.
Even CNN is calling this out as seeming like an excuse, rather than a reason:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/meast/syria-chemical-weapons-red-line/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
So what, loads of countries have chemical weapons... they were even supplied by Saudi Arabia. P.
Evidence of both of those assertions please?

It seems that Syria is producing it theirselves.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Do you have any proof he did... because if you do I am sure the U.N would be very interested in hearing from you. But no you don't do you. All you have is your usual baseless accusations and an extraordinary eagerness to 'bring freedom' with rockets and drones, iris scans and dna databases and 'well yeah you expect collateral damage don't you'...cavalier attitude.
Do you have proof otherwise? Or do you just have questions?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Even CNN is calling this out as seeming like an excuse, rather than a reason:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/meast/syria-chemical-weapons-red-line/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
Carney is quoted by CNN as saying:
"Allowing the use of chemical weapons on a significant scale to take place without a response would present a significant challenge to or threat to the United States' national security"

Basically, because it was a large(r) scale attack, we must do something about it. Hero complex stuff. In the name of 'national security' as always.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
No I don't get it... we are discussing the U.S and U.K going to war, yet again, with yet another M.E country which was on its wish list PNAC. No one cares about your toe. It is no conspiracy theory it is a conspiracy fact. Do you have proof that Assad has used chemical weapons and 'the rebels' haven't?
Do you have proof of whatever it is you think happened? Or you just don't know what happens but the "official story" smells?
 

Oxymoron

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How many countries have chemical and biological weapons and nukes. It is not an excuse to start a war... especially with our abysmal track record.

http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/02/syrian-m...om-rebels-russia-blocks-un-quasir-resolution/
 

Oxymoron

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Carney is quoted by CNN as saying:
"Allowing the use of chemical weapons on a significant scale to take place without a response would present a significant challenge to or threat to the United States' national security"

Basically, because it was a large(r) scale attack, we must do something about it. Hero complex stuff. In the name of 'national security' as always.
It has nothing to do with the warmongering U.S or the U.K. It is none of our business.

Sarin type gas can be made and distributed from caves and kitchens and we all know how easy it is to disperse ... viz Tokyo subway. They have planned and schemed for this for years as evidenced by PNAC.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
It has nothing to do with the warmongering U.S or the U.K. It is none of our business.

Sarin type gas can be made and distributed from caves and kitchens and we all know how easy it is to disperse ... viz Tokyo subway. They have planned and schemed for this for years.
Hence the need to inspect the areas so chemical signitures can be analysed. They are able to tell the difference.
 

Oxymoron

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Whatever one you don't believe.

What evidence do you have that " there a conspiracy to instigate direct action by the U.S in Syria as per PNAC aims?"
Because they are doing it now. Missiles are prepared... cabinets are in emergency session... the players are justifying it ... without the least modicum of evidence.
 

Oxymoron

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Hence the need to inspect the areas so chemical signitures can be analysed. They are able to tell the difference.
They are not interested. It is obvious from the rhetoric "Assad is guilty... we are planning our action"

All I hope is that we have sufficient MP's with enough backbone to stop it... but I doubt that very much.
 

Mick West

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Staff member
Because they are doing it now. Missiles are prepared... cabinets are in emergency session... the players are justifying it ... without the least modicum of evidence.
Oh I think there's a modicum. There's a bunch of dead people, children, and animals, and some people who seem superficially to have symptoms of nerve gas poisoning. There's just not conclusive evidence of exactly what was done, and by whom.

There does seem to be a rush to action on the part of the US. It does remind me of the start of the Iraq war. But I admit I'm not entirely familiar with the subject.
 

Oxymoron

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Oh I think there's a modicum. There's a bunch of dead people, children, and animals, and some people who seem superficially to have symptoms of nerve gas poisoning. There's just not conclusive evidence of exactly what was done, and by whom.

There does seem to be a rush to action on the part of the US. It does remind me of the start of the Iraq war. But I admit I'm not entirely familiar with the subject.
No, I am not questioning that gas was used. I am saying there is no evidence as to who deployed it and why. It is Iraq 2 Mick and it will be even more catastrophic.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
I think the jury is still way out on this...there are many reasons why more extremist elements amongst the rebels would like to draw the US et al into to Syria- 2 birds with one stone- get rid of Assad and open a new front against the US....and whilst Kerry claims to have evidence, they haven't presented it as far as I know.

However, "Iraq 2" is hyperbole...especially with the Russians standing right behind Assad- "Libya 2" maybe but the idea of invading Syria is not something that seems very likely for many reasons. There has been quite some hesitation from the Obama Admin to actually engage in this conflict. If it was Bush, chances are the missiles would be flying already.
 
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