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  1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Is it just me, or does InfoWars seem to have a somewhat conservative, anti-muslim stance? I seem to recall some other stories where they readily accepted the radical Islamist motive instead of reaching for a deeper conspiracy.

    The comments are a great cross-section of how divided the conspiracist community truly is. When there isn't a sinister plot orchestrated by some clearly defined perpetrators benefiting from it, some folks attempt to construct one and others show some rationality, with a vast spectrum in between.
     
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  3. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Some of the comments are very disturbing and it looks like some will never be convinced it was real. A false flag attack makes no sense at all. The Tories are under pressure at the moment with many followers shifting to UKIP, which is anti-immigration. I follow some of the BNP/EDL pages and those guys are having a field day with this. I suspect there is going to be a bit of trouble brewing.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Active Member

    It's not just you.

    It's puzzling is how much anti-Islamic prejudice and vitriol can be found there, while they paradoxically maintain that almost all incidents of Islamic extremist terrorism are false-flag attacks orchestrated by the government, which may or may not itself have been infiltrated by Islamic extremists. Layers upon layers of nonsense. Jones seems content to stoke whatever irrational fears and prejudices his audience is susceptible to, even if they're mutually contradictory.
     
  5. Lost World

    Lost World New Member

    Jones & co are a lot of things, but they are not specifically anti Islamic. I watch a lot of Infowars transmissions and some of what they come out with beggars belief, but I don't think charges of racism and Islamaphobia are valid.
     
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  6. Drew

    Drew Active Member

    Perhaps so. I tend to get the craziness on display in his comment sections blurred with the craziness on display under the bylines. As I recall, Jones himself mainly seems to characterize militant islamists as working in the employ of US/NWO, but he has no problem promoting Obama-as-secret-Muslim theories. And his writers have no problem employing "creeping Shariah law" and "clash of civilizations" rhetoric.
     
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  7. Lost World

    Lost World New Member

    He does, but he's not apportioning blame specifically at Islam for that. Predictably he tends to claim that radical Islamists are played by the west; employed to help topple regimes we don't like, and then blamed and demonised for turning on the west, which I think to a degree is true. Indeed, Al Queada was essentially an invention of the west, and its creators knew that they were likely to turn their attentions to the west once they'd dealt with the Soviets. This was deemed by Carter and Brezinski as a relatively small price to pay.

    Jones is also non partisan. He does come from the right wing conspiracy theorist side of the fence, but anyone who listened to him during the Bush years will know his anti government rants were just as venomous then as they are now. The NYT called him a communist then. Now he's having a pop at Obama he's accused of being a fascist. I think he just hates and mistrusts the establishment whoever happens to be holding the reigns of power.

    Edit: He does have quite frequent differences of opinion with his writers on numerous issues, and doesn't vet their articles before they are published. I think Paul J Watson, the British guy is his news editor.
     
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  8. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Woolwich knife attack: Blood on hands added by media

    Supposedly British media have added blood to the video to inflame passions - there's a side-by-side comparison of hands in 2 different video presentations claiming blood in one and none in the other - I can't see any difference!!

    And yes, it is graphic! :(

     
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Already debunked by Infowars :) Basically the "original" is a fake, with the color level adjusted. This is proven by the red "no stopping" lines, and the front of the bus, showing up as yellow.

    (Merging this with the other thread)
     
  10. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Ah - thks
     
  11. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    What else would you call it ? A random act of violence ? Creeping Islam is what it is . Third world Islamist that cant assimilate into western society .
     
  12. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Seems like revenge/retaliation to me, in fact the guy says so in no uncertain terms. It is a terrible tragedy but I can't help but hear the hollowness and hypocrisy of Cameron and Obama etc condemning terrorism whilst at the same time ordering it carried out on a grand scale, abroad.

    It is undoubtedly a conspiracy because 2 people at least, (possibly 4), have been charged. As far as conspiracy by the U.K and U.S governments, the whole 'war on terror' is a blatant conspiracy to exert power in the M.E and overthrow governments, no matter the cost.

    The war on terror has cost millions of lives and resulted in the suffering of millions more. It is imperialism and propaganda combined with corporate greed. The longer we sit back and allow the politicians and corporations to inflict their campaign of terror in the M.E, the longer we will have to put up with such consequences.

    I know what I say is not popular but we are guilty as well. Anti Vietnam war, campaigners were not popular either but eventually they helped bring about the end of that war.

    Enough is enough.

    Any CT regarding false flag... actors etc is so patently ridiculous that I would supect anyone subscribing to such a thing has serious mental issues. Poor old AJ, can't win... if he calls it like it is he get's labelled as anti Muslim and a government shill. I find that ironic.

    I thought the U.K police acted really professionally and were a credit to the Country, also the public reacted bravely and responsibly in what was undoubtedly a terrifying situation. I thought it spoke volumes that there was no over reaction as occurs so often in the U.S. (referring to Law Enforcement Agencies)

    Well that is my thoughts on it... sorry if they offend but that's what I think.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onspiracy-murder-following-terror-attack.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22650578

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...or-suspects-courage.html?ICO=most_read_module
     
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  13. Lost World

    Lost World New Member

    This type of attack could be become more commonplace. There is no - or certainly little conspiracy - between like minded individuals needed for an attack to take place and succeed. There is just a concept and an idea that could be adopted by any disenfranchised or brain washed individual, Muslim or otherwsie.

    The genie is out of the bottle now. The seal has been broken, and we have MI5 expressing concern and stating for all to hear that it is very difficult to prevent this kind of attack. Good news and no doubt a 'light bulb' moment when any aspiring lone wolf hears these words, and also some Muslim commentator confidently predicting this will happen many times until British forces stop killing Muslims abroad. When you sow the seed of inspiration it tends to flourish, and for this reason it's easy to see how conspiracy theories arise from these horrible events. In this case the attacks evoke a strong reaction in the British right wing, specifically the EDL, which in turn as reported by the media is reflected by public opinion, all of which raises the possibility of further violence on our streets; violent Jihadists against white vigilante thug gangs, leading to increased police presence on streets. Increased citizen surveillance, including possible tightening of stop and search powers.
     
  14. FuzzyUK

    FuzzyUK Member

    I lived in Woolwich (a military arsenal based town of 350 years standing) for several years when I was younger. It has degenerated into a ghetto for traumatized Somalians, has a high population of Nigerians too and brings with it all sorts of social problems like pressure on housing, high unemployment, drug related and gun crimes, Muslim extremist views etc. Many of these people are perfectly normal as are the more devout Muslim community members.
     
  15. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Threats like this have been known for decades. I recall in the 80's that we in the British military were banned from wearing our uniforms out of barracks. There was a real fear of random attacks from the IRA and much based on the murder if an army recruiter in a car park. We used to get in real trouble if caught hitching a lift back to garrison. The rational was some Irishman could just swerve his car and take you out. Personally I was obsessive about security. We lived on a council estate and no one knew what I did for a living. My ex wife used to tell people I went to sea and it was not until I returned from the first Gulf War they realised (I was washing all my kit and had it all out to dry and a neighbour spotted it all and got nosey).

    I am amazed attacks like this are not more common place.
     
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  16. When all is said and done it's always possible to fall back on "they" did it to make conspiracists look foolish.

    That one's definitely a favourite of mine.
     
  17. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    'They' did what?
     
  18. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Was this man decapitated?
     
  19. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Apparently so.

    I came across a Youtube comment by someone called Jamnoise72. They try to attribute the attack to chemtrails. They even went so far as to claim it was a heavy spray day on the day Mark Duggan was shot by the police which triggered the riots the other summer.
     
  20. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    It's the 'apparently' that I'm trying to verify - it was said at first, but now I can't find it referenced in any official report.
     
  21. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Everyone is just standing around like nothing happened, I think if there was a headless body laying there people might be less likely to be so casual.
     
  22. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    The closest I can find is they attempted to behead him. If they had it would not surprise me if they would be waving it around.
     
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  23. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    More media jumping the gun probably. How long did it take police to arrive?

    Can't debunk the adage 'don't bring a knife to a gun fight' with this one.
     
  24. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    9 minutes for the unarmed response and then a further 5 for the armed response. This wiki page is quite informative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Woolwich_attack
     
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  25. BombDr

    BombDr Senior Member

    This is your own speculation and similar to what CTists said after Sandy Hook: "I don't see tears, they don't look upset enough to me..."

    Londoners are quite a hardy bunch and tend to ignore road accidents and stabbings and this part of London is not the best either. I have regularly used the medical facilities at Woolwich and know the area reasonable well. A lot of the witnesses were in shock and one woman simply walked past with her shopping s if nothing had happened.

    I don't know what exposure to traumatic events you have had, but whatever you think you 'would do' inevitably is wrong. Ypu might surprise yourself by how calmly you deal with it, or you may later be troubled by how badly your percieve it went. One thing for sure is you cannot watch 30 seconds of TV footage and say with any degree of certainty how you think people 'ought' to behave.
     
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  26. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    I don't think he is implying a staged incident, if that's what you're thinking.
    It was a reasonable observation, but you are correct that people's behaviour is not necessarily a good indication of the level of damage to the body, which is what we were trying to ascertain.
    I think horror could be overcome by morbid curiosity in a situation where there is no immediate danger, and also being in a shocked state due to witnessing violence doesn't mean people would be visibly freaking out.

    But the reports so far say they *attempted* to remove the head, which is still going to be pretty horrific.
     
  27. BombDr

    BombDr Senior Member

    I was not implying that Soulfly was suggesting some CT-style analysis and apologies if my words came accross as such, I was (probably not very well) trying to illustrate that people react to stress differently, and its a bit much to analyse percieved behaviour from a TV clip and use that as evidence of whatver narrative one would like it to have. I have already seen one such piece of garbage with amateur blood-splatter analysis, human behaviour analysis, lots of 'would have' and 'should have' and then the mental somersault that it was somehow the ever-present 'zionists' at work...

    Again, apologies to Soulfly if I appeared to suggest he was saying that it was an inside job.
     
  28. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah, that stuff is very aggravating and I know where you're coming from, and it was a fair point.
    I think in an extraordinary situation people will also take their cues on how to act from those around them; nobody really wants to 'lose it' unless everyone else is.
    "Is this what we're doing? Okay, I'll just stand over here then."
    Sometimes you just have to improvise 'normal' to cope.
     
  29. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Yeah I was only implying that if there was a body with a head till on it people would be less inclined to freak out. I think the lady with her groceries just is simply coming from somewhere beyond the scene and isn't paying attention enough until she gets closer. I'm sure many people arrived after the fact, not knowing what was going on. I think most of the casualness I appeared to see was simply people not really knowing what happened. A headless body would quickly let everyone know this is more serious than a car accident. If I arrived late and saw the guy in the street, with his head, I would be less freaked out than if the head was missing. Like Biggerdave said, he would probably have been holding it.
     
  30. BombDr

    BombDr Senior Member

    Well, Im writing this from Kandahar, Afghanistan and this is my forth tour. Iv seen a fair amount of killing, but not actually seen a manual decapitation - Iv been led to believe its actually harder than it looks, but in any case, the punishment that poor lad took makes me hope that he was rendered unconscious by the impact of the car.

    Now I'm going to do what I criticize others for doing, make assumptions from watching 20 clips from the telly, but it is also possible that most of the people there arrived after the fact and assumed it was either a car accident or some gangland fallout. Unlike CTists though, Im happy to be corrected when facts become available.
     
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  31. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    I take it you are stationed there? if so, thank you for your service! Pretty much what I was getting at. Head on body, whats going on. Head off body, holy crap that guy cut his head off, lets get out of here or lets get him, or hey lady with your groceries WATCH OUT!

    But like everyone else who was not there it is just my assumption from watching the video.
     
  32. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    The reaction of the public has been the subject of some discussion in my home. One likes to think that you would act in a brave manner but from what I could see the public really kept their cool. The attack was over and one of the attackers appears to be brandishing a firearm. As there is no general threat and police are on the way backing off seems the sound thing to do. People generally stay out the way if armed police are on their way, for some reason people prefer not to get shot.

    I find it interesting how people seem to automatically reach for their phone to film the event. A couple of summers back there was some trouble across the country. My daughter was working in Manchester city centre and word came that trouble had sparked, so I went in to escort her home. The scene was quite surreal with a few fires and windows getting broken and a bit of looting, but with quite an audience all filming it on their phones. No one seemed that bothered as though their phone afforded them some security. I guess that our phones now appeal to the voyeur in us and offer some detachment.

    Mind I had to laugh. I went to.my daughters place of work and no one was there. They had all cleared off to the pub and were sitting it out until the trouble died down. The pub landlord had just closed the curtains and turned the music up. It was a real Shaun of the Dead moment.
     
  33. FuzzyUK

    FuzzyUK Member

    Then one of aggressors ran up to the police car with his machet but got shot him in the legs; likewise the second aggressor who pulled a gun on the police got shot in the legs too.

    Abu Nusayba, a friend of one of the aggressors, Michael Adebolajo, gave an interview on BBC TV saying what a nice man he was. On leaving the TV center he was immediately arrested in relation to suspected terrorism offences. Bet he didn't bargain for that!

    Oh, despite high unemployment by the African community in Woolwich, Nusayba claims Adebolajo was offered a job by MI5 as a spy a few months ago.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468
     
  34. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Don't know how this got in your quote as it is not showing in original post: "Oh, despite high unemployment by the African community in Woolwich, Nusayba claims Adebolajo was offered a job by MI5 as a spy a few months ago."

    But what are you saying here? Despite high unemployment in the area? What difference would that make to MI5 recruiting policy?

    Seems a bit more involved than that, it is alleged:

    http://news.sky.com/story/1095401/woolwich-terror-suspect-friend-arrested

    It is amazing how these links between terrorists and CIA/MI5 recruitment/interactions etc keep coming up.

    I guess it could be argued 'they are on the case because they are 'known' to the security agencies but it always seems to be deeper than that and far more blurred as to exactly what their relationships are.
     
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  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  36. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member


     
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  37. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    I just want to address this comment. The UK has massive Muslim communities, with many families coming from Pakistan post Partition of India and to me they have "assimilated" really well. FFS a curry called a Tikka Masala is classed as one if our national dishes. However "religious" violence is not limited to Muslims. The UK has a long history of sectarian violence between Catholics and Protestants. One firstly thinks if Northern Ireland, especially during Marching Season but it is alive and well in Glasgow and to sone extent Liverpool. Some info on the issues in Glasgow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism_in_Glasgow I am certain that Google will bring up a myriad of murders in Northern Ireland that are sectarian in nature.
     
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  38. BombDr

    BombDr Senior Member

    So a single bloke on the telly says something and that makes it a fact? The BBC et al are simply transmitting a rumour and we are supposed to have some deeper understanding of what has happened because of it? Of course, people never tell lies to exaggerate their importance, do they?
     
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  39. BombDr

    BombDr Senior Member

    BTW, thanks to whoever gave me the EOD meme (Mick?) next to my user-name... real EOD is not like Hollywood, with digital clocks and a stark choice between different coloured wires, but I appreciate the gesture... Thanks!
     
  40. FuzzyUK

    FuzzyUK Member

    I suspect this Nusayba geezer, friend of suspect murderer Adebolajo was roped in by the police who are desperate to find out if this was a one off incident or something more sinister at a deeper level with a group plotting further attrocities.Even the girlfriends of the suspects have been arrested.
     
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