London Woolwich Knife Attack: Conspiracy theories debunked by Infowars

[Brainiachick]

I cant comment here any more. Mick is censoring my comments. Obviously I question too much. =)

Bye.

I guess moderating your comments is what you meant to say...as if he'd taken away your ability [can] to comment, then you wouldn't have been able to write the above comment, would you? The boards sometimes need moderation if things are off base or they get too heated or outside of the politeness guidelines. My comments have been moderated in the past when someone tried to get under my skin.... it happens Gary, but I think you are welcome to post and comment....just saying.

 

[Alhazred The Sane]

Mick pointed out that it was simply off-topic. He regularly removes off-topic comments in order to keep threads together. It's not just Gary, so no point in feeling picked on.

 

[Joe]

Yeah it got off topic pretty quickly. Its just one of those conversations that polarises people pretty quickly. Like I've said along with everyone else, there's no conspiracy here, just a horrible tragedy.

Immigration is a political issue . They are children of third world immigrants that have not accepted the culture of the country they were born . So its pretty understandable it would go there . Not sure how politics work in the UK I know the BNP is pretty anti immigrant . Im sure there is a pro immigrant side as well ?

 

[David Fraser]

The killers of Lee Rigby were sentenced today.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...michael-adebolajo-adebowale-whole-life-ruling

Michael Abedolajo received a Whole Life sentence and Michael Abedowale received Life with a minimum of 45 years. The trial finished in December but sentencing was delayed waiting on a decision in another case at the Court of Appeal. The statutory sentence for murder in the UK is Life but normally a minimum term is set to serve after which the person is eligible for parole. However some are given Whole Life terms but a number of prisoners took their cases to the European Court of Human Rights stating that their sentences should be reviewed at some point. The EHRC ruled in their favour, effectively saying a Whole Life Term was unjust. However there were cases at the Court of Appeal challenging Whole Life terms and judge said they are valid, essentially telling the ECHR to bog off.

Abedolaja now joins an exclusive club of just over 50 on whole life terms, and I think the sentence shows the severity of the crime.

 

[Melbury's Brick]

The killers of Lee Rigby were sentenced today.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...michael-adebolajo-adebowale-whole-life-ruling


Abedolaja now joins an exclusive club of just over 50 on whole life terms, and I think the sentence shows the severity of the crime.

Both kicked off during sentencing, when the judge suggested that their actions made them traitors to their religion.
I believe that they wanted to be to die at the scene and become martyrs. They're not. They're common criminals behind bars.... Where common criminals belong.

 

[Gary Cook]

Some of the comments are very disturbing and it looks like some will never be convinced it was real. A false flag attack makes no sense at all. The Tories are under pressure at the moment with many followers shifting to UKIP, which is anti-immigration. I follow some of the BNP/EDL pages and those guys are having a field day with this. I suspect there is going to be a bit of trouble brewing.

Not meaning to be b*tchy but if I made unsubstantiated comments like saying that it was just likely to be a false flag based on a feeling then I would normally get my comment deleted. It doesnt seem to be both ways. Just saying because if I have noticed that then other people have too and sure we want he forum to be seen as unbiased as possible.

 

[Brainiachick]

Those two are clearly a danger to society. I am very pleased with the sentencing even if it would never bring Lee back - for once our courts have done right by the victim. The only problem is that the tax payer would now be responsible for their care for the remainder of their miserable lives in prison!

The ECHR can sometimes be over-reaching, but it is down to each member countries how they interpret and implement the Human Rights Act in their respective jurisdictions, and there's really not much the ECHR can do about this if the cases are not being directly heard at the ECHR.

 

[David Fraser]

Not meaning to be b*tchy but if I made unsubstantiated comments like saying that it was just likely to be a false flag based on a feeling then I would normally get my comment deleted. It doesnt seem to be both ways. Just saying because if I have noticed that then other people have too and sure we want he forum to be seen as unbiased as possible.

I don't understand your point. Have I said something untrue? Did the BNP/EDL make the most if the situation (given they were demonstrating outside the court today)? Was there not an increase in racially motivated assaults especially on mosques? Why would the government wish to stir up racial violence?

 

[Gary Cook]

I don't understand your point. Have I said something untrue? Did the BNP/EDL make the most if the situation (given they were demonstrating outside the court today)? Was there not an increase in racially motivated assaults especially on mosques?

Hey, I am not attacking you dudey. Just pointing something out. Considering how "conspiracy theorist" in nature I was when I joined this forum I think I am doing pretty well lol but it concerns me when people seem to be encouraged to think something definitely is not a false flag. Extreme beliefs either way are surely not desirable. Even Mick has said that we are debunking the false claims and not the potentiality. Or at least that is how I read his comments. Plus we could have a big frivolous debate about morals and whether they had the right to avenge murder Brits have done abroad in so called national armys. I am surprised there has been worse attacks more often. I could not blame them even though I am very much against instigating violence.

 

[David Fraser]

Hey, I am not attacking you dudey. Just pointing something out. Considering how "conspiracy theorist" in nature I was when I joined this forum I think I am doing pretty well lol but it concerns me when people seem to be encouraged to think something definitely is not a false flag. Extreme beliefs either way are surely not desirable. Even Mick has said that we are debunking the false claims and not the potentiality. Or at least that is how I read his comments. Plus we could have a big frivolous debate about morals and whether they had the right to avenge murder Brits have done abroad in so called national armys. I am surprised there has been worse attacks more often. I could not blame them even though I am very much against instigating violence.

Where did I say definitely not a false flag? I said it made no sense and gave some reasons as to that, all in the context of the comments I had just read on the video.

Please explain why that should have been deleted?

 

[Mick West]

Hey, I am not attacking you dudey. Just pointing something out. Considering how "conspiracy theorist" in nature I was when I joined this forum I think I am doing pretty well lol but it concerns me when people seem to be encouraged to think something definitely is not a false flag. Extreme beliefs either way are surely not desirable. Even Mick has said that we are debunking the false claims and not the potentiality. Or at least that is how I read his comments. Plus we could have a big frivolous debate about morals and whether they had the right to avenge murder Brits have done abroad in so called national armys. I am surprised there has been worse attacks more often. I could not blame them even though I am very much against instigating violence.

Sorry Gary, but you are rambling here. Dave made a quite reasonable observation about what he had seen as comments on the story and on other pages. Basically this falls under the meta discussion of conspiracy theories.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/

• The "Meta" exemption - threads and posts may be about a subject if they are not promoting or debunking any claims of evidence, but instead discussing it at a meta level - why people believe, why they are resistant to debunking, why bunk spreads, how best to address it, problems the bunk might cause. Metadebunking.

 

[Gary Cook]

Where did I say definitely not a false flag? I said it made no sense and gave some reasons as to that, all in the context of the comments I had just read on the video.

Please explain why that should have been deleted?

I never said anything should be deleted but just saying I have said similar stuff but for the opposite reason so to speak and have had it removed. From recollection anyway. Had so many comments moved or removed I lose track now lol. I think the more objective part of what I was saying to you is, is that really appropriate to write considering to counter it the only choice I would have is to make just as much of an unsubstantiated post in the other direction. For example, there are many elitists agendas and surely it is not right to presume what they are as essentially they are secret?

 

[Gary Cook]

Sorry Gary, but you are rambling here. Dave made a quite reasonable observation about what he had seen as comments on the story and on other pages. Basically this falls under the meta discussion of conspiracy theories.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/

• The "Meta" exemption - threads and posts may be about a subject if they are not promoting or debunking any claims of evidence, but instead discussing it at a meta level - why people believe, why they are resistant to debunking, why bunk spreads, how best to address it, problems the bunk might cause. Metadebunking.

I am discussing it but I am worried that my rebuttal may be deemed unwanted and removed, so to speak. Just having a convo about the subject and for the right reasons I think so I would hope not.

Although, I am sorry for digressing. Just not always the best at making a point. And most of my comments that were moved or deleted at least were for good reason as per the rules. I am not complaining.

 

[Mick West]

This is not the place for site feedback. Feel free to PM me, or post in the site feedback forum if you have concerns. Or simply post your thoughts that are on-topic in the appropriate thread. Your above comments are not on-topic, and will shortly be removed.

 

[Pete Tar]

You seem to be complaining that making a statement about this being a false flag is *equal* to some aside commentary about the political reality in Britain - it is not!
It is an extraordinary claim (you would be saying a secretive group hired these men to attack an english soldier just to stir up social unrest - ETA, or as the original claim was, that they are all acting and no-one was really hurt) that requires a higher standard of evidence. Dave's comments about the various interest groups reactions to this incident is a rational one and is based on known and established facts.

 

[Gary Cook]

You seem to be complaining that making a statement about this being a false flag is *equal* to some aside commentary about the political reality in Britain - it is not!
It is an extraordinary claim (you would be saying a secretive group hired these men to attack an english soldier just to stir up social unrest - ETA, or as the original claim was, that they are all acting and no-one was really hurt) that requires a higher standard of evidence. Dave's comments about the various interest groups reactions to this incident is a rational one and is based on known and established facts.

What is extreme about that? Surely your statement is contextual. I never said it was a false flag. I am merely saying that David's claim I would rebut. I accept I digressed and those comments above will be deleted but I would like a debate on that claim. I wasnt the guy who claimed it. I see that as bunk. No offence. David is only considering whether they would do that based on their allegiances to their political party but it clearly not impossible that they have other allegiances.

 

[Gary Cook]

Would anybody rebut that "War Weariness" is a real concept that effect a countries capacity to wage wars?

 

[NoParty]

Would anybody rebut that "War Weariness" is a real concept that effect a countries capacity to wage wars?

Yes

 

[Joe]

Both kicked off during sentencing, when the judge suggested that their actions made them traitors to their religion.
I believe that they wanted to be to die at the scene and become martyrs. They're not. They're common criminals behind bars.... Where common criminals belong.

They should execute them in the same way they murdered Lee Rigby . I hope they get murdered in jail . traitors to their religion or heros to their religion ? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cking-horrific-killing-Lee-Rigby-YouTube.html

The BBC is facing a backlash after allowing Anjem Choudary, an extremist preacher, air-time on one of its flagship programmes to discuss the murder of Lee Rigby.

Mr Choudary refused to condemn the killers of the soldier when asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, and said the cause of the murder was "David Cameron and his foreign policy."

 

[Gary Cook]

They should execute them in the same way they murdered Lee Rigby . I hope they get murdered in jail . traitors to their religion or heros to their religion ? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cking-horrific-killing-Lee-Rigby-YouTube.html

The BBC is facing a backlash after allowing Anjem Choudary, an extremist preacher, air-time on one of its flagship programmes to discuss the murder of Lee Rigby.

Mr Choudary refused to condemn the killers of the soldier when asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, and said the cause of the murder was "David Cameron and his foreign policy."

Would better role models be more desirable than violence or would violence be your first choice of solution?

 

[Pete Tar]

What is extreme about that?

You don't think saying the incident was staged and they are acting is extreme?
(the word was extraordinary though)

 

[Joe]

Would better role models be more desirable than violence or would violence be your first choice of solution?

eye for a eye . Pacifism leads to violence .

 

[Pete Tar]

So violence leads to not violence?
You seem to have a lot in common with hard-line muslims. You might be happier in a country with Sharia law.

 

[Gary Cook]

You don't think saying the incident was staged and they are acting is extreme?
(the word was extraordinary though)

It was extra-ordinary but I think many events are and violence is common-place in society but more precisely I was rebutting Davids comment that their political allegiances to their party are their only allegiances or at least that we cant know all what their allegiances would be. Surely that is self-evident?

 

[Gary Cook]

So violence leads to not violence?
You seem to have a lot in common with hard-line muslims. You might be happier in a country with Sharia law.

Who?

 

[Pete Tar]

(was to Joe's comment advocating old-testament biblical justice)

 

[Joe]

So violence leads to not violence?
You seem to have a lot in common with hard-line muslims. You might be happier in a country with Sharia law.

Thats payback pal . What would you do with them ? Have the taxpayer support them for the rest of their lives as they radicalize more in prison ? Would you rather spend your whole life in prison or be put to death ? Which is really more humane ? Liberalism ??? "Speak softly and carry a big stick"

You might be happier in a country with Sharia law

No but the UK may soon be one . [...]

You seem to have a lot in common with hard-line muslims. ?

No I know they do not respect weakness and take advantage of pacifist .

 

[Alhazred The Sane]

The killers of Lee Rigby were sentenced today.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...michael-adebolajo-adebowale-whole-life-ruling

Michael Abedolajo received a Whole Life sentence and Michael Abedowale received Life with a minimum of 45 years. The trial finished in December but sentencing was delayed waiting on a decision in another case at the Court of Appeal. The statutory sentence for murder in the UK is Life but normally a minimum term is set to serve after which the person is eligible for parole. However some are given Whole Life terms but a number of prisoners took their cases to the European Court of Human Rights stating that their sentences should be reviewed at some point. The EHRC ruled in their favour, effectively saying a Whole Life Term was unjust. However there were cases at the Court of Appeal challenging Whole Life terms and judge said they are valid, essentially telling the ECHR to bog off.

Abedolaja now joins an exclusive club of just over 50 on whole life terms, and I think the sentence shows the severity of the crime.

Good. May they both rot there, and live until they are old, old men.

 

[Alhazred The Sane]

They should execute them in the same way they murdered Lee Rigby . I hope they get murdered in jail . traitors to their religion or heros to their religion ? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cking-horrific-killing-Lee-Rigby-YouTube.html

The BBC is facing a backlash after allowing Anjem Choudary, an extremist preacher, air-time on one of its flagship programmes to discuss the murder of Lee Rigby.

Mr Choudary refused to condemn the killers of the soldier when asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, and said the cause of the murder was "David Cameron and his foreign policy."

Choudary is an attention seeking moron, with no grasp on reality. I despise Cameron as much as the next socialist, but the foreign policy he's on about began with Thatcher and hasn't changed a whole lot since. If anything, Blair moved it up a notch and can be singled out for jumping onto the US bandwagon to engage in an illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. Funny how the Beeb will allow this idiot time on the airwaves but when a hip-hop artist mentions Palestine his words are bleeped out.

 

[Joe]

Choudary is an attention seeking moron, with no grasp on reality. I despise Cameron as much as the next socialist, but the foreign policy he's on about began with Thatcher and hasn't changed a whole lot since. If anything, Blair moved it up a notch and can be singled out for jumping onto the US bandwagon to engage in an illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. Funny how the Beeb will allow this idiot time on the airwaves but when a hip-hop artist mentions Palestine his words are bleeped out.

Its called selective freedom of speech . Im surprised Choudary get any airtime in the UK ? He sure doesnt add any unity ? I still cant figure out what the hell was worth casualties on both sides for Iraq . they were better under Saddam. Libyans were also better under Qaddafi .

 

[Melbury's Brick]

They should execute them in the same way they murdered Lee Rigby . I hope they get murdered in jail . traitors to their religion or heros to their religion ? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cking-horrific-killing-Lee-Rigby-YouTube.html

The BBC is facing a backlash after allowing Anjem Choudary, an extremist preacher, air-time on one of its flagship programmes to discuss the murder of Lee Rigby.
Mr Choudary refused to condemn the killers of the soldier when asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, and said the cause of the murder was "David Cameron and his foreign policy."

Execution is not for me. That would be sinking to their level. You murder someone, you spend your life shitting in the corner of a locked room. That doesn't sound like a religion's hero to me. Incidentally, where's their god now?


Britain often falls victim to it's own freedoms. Anjem Choudray has the right to express his opinions, and he does it in a way that just avoids incitement laws. Is silencing him better than allowing him to express his odious opinions, so that he'll be heard when he oversteps the line?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...65/Weve-heard-enough-from-Anjem-Choudary.html

There is a nasty combination of victimhood, threat and doublespeak in his argument. He said he was "very proud" of Adebolajo as a Muslim, but insisted, "I can't control what the youth do," as though we were talking of wayward rascals who had broken a window instead of almost beheading a man in broad daylight. I don't suppose he can fully control it, but he energetically provides the fuel of justification (both killers were former regulars at al-Muhijaroun meetings).

Yet numerous British Muslims already strongly condemn Islamist violence. The Muslim Council of Britain, for example, called the murder of Lee Rigby "truly a barbaric act" (for this, they are dismissed by Choudary as "paid-up lackeys of the government"). Dr Taj Hargey, the imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, has persistently spoken out against "Muslim McCarthyism" in Britain

Either way..... For me, anything said in the name of a god or gods is a lie.
"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala Al-Maari

 

[Joe]

Execution is not for me. That would be sinking to their level. You murder someone, you spend your life shitting in the corner of a locked room. That doesn't sound like a religion's hero to me. Incidentally, where's their god now?


Britain often falls victim to it's own freedoms. Anjem Choudray has the right to express his opinions, and he does it in a way that just avoids incitement laws. Is silencing him better than allowing him to express his odious opinions, so that he'll be heard when he oversteps the line?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...65/Weve-heard-enough-from-Anjem-Choudary.html

There is a nasty combination of victimhood, threat and doublespeak in his argument. He said he was "very proud" of Adebolajo as a Muslim, but insisted, "I can't control what the youth do," as though we were talking of wayward rascals who had broken a window instead of almost beheading a man in broad daylight. I don't suppose he can fully control it, but he energetically provides the fuel of justification (both killers were former regulars at al-Muhijaroun meetings).

Yet numerous British Muslims already strongly condemn Islamist violence. The Muslim Council of Britain, for example, called the murder of Lee Rigby "truly a barbaric act" (for this, they are dismissed by Choudary as "paid-up lackeys of the government"). Dr Taj Hargey, the imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, has persistently spoken out against "Muslim McCarthyism" in Britain

Either way..... For me, anything said in the name of a god or gods is a lie.
"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala Al-Maari

Britain often falls victim to it's own freedoms. Anjem Choudray has the right to express his opinions

Then why not have a thread on Metabunk on how he is calling for violence and advocating it ? Seems his hate full rants cause more deaths then chemtrail believers ?

 

[Mick West]

Then why not have a thread on Metabunk on how he is calling for violence and advocating it ? Seems his hate full rants cause more deaths then chemtrail believers ?

How would that help? If he's not breaking the law then that's just extra publicity, and extra animosity. Debunk him or ignore him.

 

[Mick West]

And I think this thread has long overstayed its welcome, and need to be retired.

This is a debunking forum, not a politics forum.