Facebook chemtrail "whistleblower"
- Thread starter TWCobra
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TWCobra
Senior Member.
It is clearly a hoax. This paragraph is the clincher for me.
Physicists involved in genetic modification at a particle collider facility??
He then goes on to tick the boxes...
Physicists involved in genetic modification at a particle collider facility??
He then goes on to tick the boxes...
That is the pro forma establishment of links that those he wishes to deceive will be interested in. The reaction of Madison's followers is dismally predictable. No-one has voiced any doubts. They are wide eyed starry believers.
David Fraser
Senior Member.
There is GM going on at BNL. I suspect someone has come across the wealth of research at BNL, then chosen a specific department to be "employed" and then claim they have had contact with all departments.
My experience of research centres like this is that they tend to be compartmentalised and very protective of their own departments. Also while there may be plenty of computer experts helping with the running of uni wide systems I found that people involved in specific projects also had a degree in that field, especially when developing software. The only other IT guys we would meet were the ones to ask " have you tried turning it on and off?"
JRBids
Senior Member
Oh geesh, not Brookhaven Lab! I live about 5 minutes from there. I've freelanced for scientists, I know the HR director and 3 physicists from there. Anything with the name "Lab" in it sounds really scary to a CTer, doesn't it? What next, Plum Island (which I've also been to and have not come down with any fatal diseases).
JRBids
Senior Member
Yeah, just wanted to post the full thing here, so she can't claim she was tricked.
https://www.facebook.com/madisonstar.moon/posts/347308675399873
It's unfortunate that the level of distrust make her believe the opposite of whatever I say.
I think it's unfortunate that neither she nor any of her followers can speak civilly. What a rude bunch.
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JRBids
Senior Member
They lack my iron first of civility
As someone else said earlier in the thread, can you imagine if we talked about them the way they talk about us?
After reading her page it is obvious that most everyone, probably including Madison, are very young. I'm thinking very early 20s at the most. They're getting more attention than they deserve.
Nick
New Member
Latest "breaking news" from madison > " Illness patterns coincide with heavy spray days during the winter months specifically. Reported deaths in US and Canada in Peterborough Ontario 307 acute asthma cases were reported in one day of heavy spraying. In Birmingham England 8,000 people died in 3 weeks of heavy spraying.
They are dumping 10-20 million tons of toxic aluminum and other unknown substances into the sky. The World Meteorological Organization says that climate change is human caused and has impacts on us now and those impacts will become more and more significant over time. Persistent contrails have an additive that causes contrails to be persistent which is the problem. What is that additive? These particles may be spread in the atmosphere via jet fuel. The substances found on the ground are exactly what are stated in the chemtrail patents. John Holdren (Obama Science Advisor) openly voices his support for geoengineering. The Arctic Methane Emergency Group is openly calling for emergency wartime geoengineering. Who is responsible for allowing these operations and why are we not allowed to halt this activity based on the data that has caused a decline in human health and the ecological system of our planet? What is the additive used for persistent contrails?"
They are dumping 10-20 million tons of toxic aluminum and other unknown substances into the sky. The World Meteorological Organization says that climate change is human caused and has impacts on us now and those impacts will become more and more significant over time. Persistent contrails have an additive that causes contrails to be persistent which is the problem. What is that additive? These particles may be spread in the atmosphere via jet fuel. The substances found on the ground are exactly what are stated in the chemtrail patents. John Holdren (Obama Science Advisor) openly voices his support for geoengineering. The Arctic Methane Emergency Group is openly calling for emergency wartime geoengineering. Who is responsible for allowing these operations and why are we not allowed to halt this activity based on the data that has caused a decline in human health and the ecological system of our planet? What is the additive used for persistent contrails?"
David Fraser
Senior Member.
Sod the politeness policy but this is barking mad.
Belfrey
Senior Member
Interesting set of claims there. I was looking for a source for the one about 8,000 people dying within 3 weeks in Birmingham (which would be rather big news if so), and the closest thing I could find was The Great Smog of 1952 in London. I can't even find any other conspiracy theorists making this claim, did she invent it out of thin air?
JRBids
Senior Member
solrey
Senior Member
Those claims come from an interview with William Thomas in the "Look Up" movie by SkyderAlert. The interview starts at 10:43 in the following clip.
He does mention that the hospital admissions and deaths happened during the winter months and involved mostly elderly people. Older more frail people sometimes have a hard time of it during harsh winters... whoda thunk?
The only other reference I found was an article in the UK Daily Mail about the harsh winter of 2013.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ected--experts-say-final-toll-horrendous.html
Another case of connecting cherry picked dots.External Quote:
mrfintoil
Active Member
Whenever there is a claim about experienced throats problems, asthma and skin rash during "heavy spraying" I have a strong feeling that this is simply psychosomatic, if the effects are even real. If the belief is strong believers can force forth a reaction (even if it's just imagined) because that is how they are more or less programmed to react.
But perceived irritation can very well lead to real symptoms, let's say for example someone with strong belief in "chemtrails" might perceive any form of itching on the skin as evidence, even though the itching would be considered normal in other situations. But prolonged scratching might cause real irritation in the skin, which will increase the urge to scratch, something which might generate "morgellons".
It feels like claims such as "307 acute asthma cases" are either exaggerated, or simply cherry picked. How many acute cases are there otherwise? What does statistics say and can a correlation be seen?
The reason I suspect this to be psychosomatic (if that is the right word) is how most of these believers instantaneously experience symptoms the moment they see trails in the sky, or they usually claim symptoms "later that day". But the point is that any spraying of particulates would usually take longer to reach the ground than just one day if we consider a linear falling speed alone. In fact, a grain of sand would take about a week to reach ground if it fell linear to the ground.
A usual sand grain mass of 5mg falling with air resistance coefficient of 0.24kg/m (usually assumed when "skydiving") gives us a falling speed of 0.0142935 m/s. A linear fall from 9000 metres would take approximately one week to complete.
But of course, the atmosphere is never uniform and without turbulence. Theoretically, in a realistic situation it may well take many weeks before the grain finds a way down to the ground.
Doing the same calculation for nano sizes gives us a falling time of about one year (assuming it would fall straight down without any other forces than gravity).
But perceived irritation can very well lead to real symptoms, let's say for example someone with strong belief in "chemtrails" might perceive any form of itching on the skin as evidence, even though the itching would be considered normal in other situations. But prolonged scratching might cause real irritation in the skin, which will increase the urge to scratch, something which might generate "morgellons".
It feels like claims such as "307 acute asthma cases" are either exaggerated, or simply cherry picked. How many acute cases are there otherwise? What does statistics say and can a correlation be seen?
The reason I suspect this to be psychosomatic (if that is the right word) is how most of these believers instantaneously experience symptoms the moment they see trails in the sky, or they usually claim symptoms "later that day". But the point is that any spraying of particulates would usually take longer to reach the ground than just one day if we consider a linear falling speed alone. In fact, a grain of sand would take about a week to reach ground if it fell linear to the ground.
A usual sand grain mass of 5mg falling with air resistance coefficient of 0.24kg/m (usually assumed when "skydiving") gives us a falling speed of 0.0142935 m/s. A linear fall from 9000 metres would take approximately one week to complete.
But of course, the atmosphere is never uniform and without turbulence. Theoretically, in a realistic situation it may well take many weeks before the grain finds a way down to the ground.
Doing the same calculation for nano sizes gives us a falling time of about one year (assuming it would fall straight down without any other forces than gravity).
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MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
You also have the issue that if the stuff is falling fast enough to be experienced down here, what is it that they are seeing up there?
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
It would be if it couldn't be easily waived away with having two things in chemtrails. One that drops, one that stops up there. The two components have different goals.
It's actually in the interest of the conspiracy that it's kept as vague as possible rather than trying to identify what they are composed of. Everyone can have their own personal experience while complaining about about the same thing with others whose experience is not the same.
It's actually in the interest of the conspiracy that it's kept as vague as possible rather than trying to identify what they are composed of. Everyone can have their own personal experience while complaining about about the same thing with others whose experience is not the same.
Nick
New Member
Yes that was the only reference i could find as well.
Nick
New Member
I`m wondering if she was fed this from her "whistle blower."
I've retitled this thread, removing reference to Madison. She's a very small promoter of chemtrails, but a highly energetic one. I think seeing her name all the time just drives her more, and gives her unwarranted credibility. We should discuss the claims of evidence if needed, but try to avoid helping promote her, or giving her any excuse for her "stalking" claims.
solrey
Senior Member
Found some info about Peterborough, Ontario. Turns out, there is an ongoing issue with dust from a nearby mine.
http://www.miningwatch.ca/blog/fami...exaggerated-benefits-and-underestimated-costsExternal Quote:
http://www.pcchu.ca/wp-content/uplo...-Mine-letter-to-residents-formatted-FINAL.pdfExternal Quote:
http://www.stopajaxmine.ca/blog/dust-problems-in-peterborough
Clusters of asthma cases have been identified, including the Peterborough area. If chemicals are being sprayed in the upper troposphere, why are there clusters of asthma rather than a more even widespread distribution?
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/A spatial analysis of asthma prevalence in Ontario.-a0313707120External Quote:
Belfrey
Senior Member
I'd say tentatively that it looks like her whistleblower "7" may have been an actual employee at BNL. She claims that he sent her a file with thousands of emails between the scientists there. She says she's having trouble understanding them (which to me lends some credibility to their provenance).
https://www.facebook.com/madisonstar.moon/posts/349663041831103
https://www.facebook.com/madisonstar.moon/posts/349663041831103
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The stuff she is quoting is just from various pages on the BNL web site, like:
http://www.bnl.gov/cfn/
http://www.bnl.gov/cfn/
I'd wait until she actually makes a claim. Right now she's just saying she does not understand what BNL does. Hardly the basis for a conspiracy.External Quote:
DieKnowSoar
New Member
I still have doubts about that. Not sure if what she thinks she is posting in her first 4 posts are snippets of these "emails" she needs help understanding but a quick Google search of the stuff shows it is nothing but text directly from the bnl website. I guess we'll wait and see if she posts anything that cant be publicly found. I started out thinking it was her trying to bring credibility but now I'm thinking she might be getting trolled.
(in order)
http://www.bnl.gov/world/
http://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=24151
http://www.bnl.gov/cfn/facilities/nanofabrication.php
http://www.bnl.gov/cfn/facilities/materialsSynthesis.php
DieKnowSoar
New Member
TomC
Member
I believe the key to persistent contrails is the potentially hazardous chemical compound Dihydrogen Monoxide.
I wonder if any chemtrail activists are involved in the campaign against it http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
Also, madison is now referring to "persistent contrails" does she accept that they exist now?
Ross Marsden
Senior Member.
No, I don't think so. This term is being picked up more and more in that community, and used without understanding that it has a specific meaning.
It is being used as a euphemism for something else. If you are in conversation with a chemtrail believer, and they use that term, ask them for a definition. "What do you mean when you say 'persistent contrails'. What's your definition? What are they composed of?"
It was the same with 'atmospheric aerosols' before WITWATS created the geoengineering myth, and even after that.
JRBids
Senior Member
They're open for tours every SUnday, if I'm not mistaken. She can take a tour.
David Fraser
Senior Member.
I bet Wikileaks are kicking themselves for missing out on this latest scoop.
JRBids
Senior Member
How cool is this?
This has what to do with chemtrails?
http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/default.aspExternal Quote:
This has what to do with chemtrails?
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David Fraser
Senior Member.
I have just had a peak at her page. She has posted a graph with reference to a study on the effect of aerosols on the performance of telescopes.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...49539065176835.61035.100003622311420&refid=17
I Googled the first sentence and found this study
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0473.pdf
Not exactly top secret stuff eh? Also very recent, hardly from 10 years ago
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...49539065176835.61035.100003622311420&refid=17
I Googled the first sentence and found this study
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0473.pdf
Not exactly top secret stuff eh? Also very recent, hardly from 10 years ago
FreiZeitGeist
Senior Member
These Measurements are mostly done by LIDAR-Systems. Ground-Based Lasers scanning the sky and using the refelections of the aerosoles to detect their distance. Simular to RADAR, but done with Lasers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar#Meteorology_and_atmospheric_environment
... Some LIDAR-Systems can detect the elements in the clouds, by using 2 Lasers with different Wavelengths. If one Laser uses a Wavelength that will be reflected and the other Laser uses a wavelegth that will be absorbed, it is possible to make conclusions about the elements being found.
LIDAR-Systems would be a smart possibility to bring evidence for the claims of the Chemtrail-Believers. Some LIDARs can analyse the elements of a cloud or a contrail. If there is Aluminium or Barium or whatever in a contrail, you can find it out with a LIDAR using different Wavelegths...
Hama Neggs
Senior Member
On the other hand, I have recently seen that some of them are claiming that short non-persistent contrails are "chemtrails" too. They just keep adapting their claims to fit the circumstances.
JRBids
Senior Member
Blue sky isn't ever "really blue" like they remember.
captfitch
Active Member
I suck at linking but allaboutvision.com says:
- Decreased color vision. Cells in the retina that are responsible for normal color vision decline in sensitivity as we age, causing colors to become less bright and the contrast between different colors to be less noticeable.
In particular, blue colors may appear faded or "washed out." While there is no treatment for this normal, age-related loss of color perception, you should be aware of this loss if your profession (e.g. artist, seamstress or electrician) requires fine color discrimination.
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