Charlie Kirk Shooting

If you were in a crowd and a shooter was at a distance in an unidentified direction, you would not know where to hide anyway, would you? You'd probably think "not near the victim", but that's about it.
most of the crowd didnt -and wouldnt -know who "the victim" was.

and not knowing where to hide does not equal ''just stand at the balcony" (like dozens did) and watch everyone else duck. It is a bit stupid, and they were just lucky the shooter didnt keep shooting at easy targets.
 
If you were in a crowd and a shooter was at a distance in an unidentified direction, you would not know where to hide anyway, would you? You'd probably think "not near the victim", but that's about it.
It seems most of the crowd had at least the core survival elements down: staying alert, looking for cover (even a behind flimsy gazebo) or getting down. I guess "active shooter" drills that are part of University life in the US are effective.
 
Isn't not having someone filming in the face of danger stranger these days?

If you wanted to make something look real these days you probably have to have someone stood somewhere filming it on their mobile phone.

How do we define EXACTLY how people should act? It's hardly surprising that it's pretty much impossible and therefore any action can be deemed "strange". Not strange enough is strange. Strange is strange. Too strange is strange.

There is no porridge that's JUST right. Unless it's perfectly crafted. Which would make it obviously strange. It's not just right, it's TOO right.
Expecting everyone in a group to react in a specific way ignores the widely different life experiences of the individuals, it ignores exactly what they saw and heard (which will vary from person to person), and what their instant response is. Flight, fight, keep filming.... Firefighters ran toward the World Trade Center, everybody else runs away...
 
most of the crowd didnt -and wouldnt -know who "the victim" was.
What level of situational awareness are you ascribing to these people? I would have defaulted to the crowd being aware that the main speaker, who is in front of them at the time, had been shot. What else were they at the rally for if not to see the main speaker?
 
What else were they at the rally for if not to see the main speaker?
to hear the main speaker and the guy asking the questions?

basically 90% or more of the people ive seen interviewed who said they actually saw kirk shot (they all mention blood) were directly in front of him and 20 feet was the furthest distance i heard. certainly i imagine some further back also were looking directly at kirk the moment he was shot. Many said they turned toward the sound when they heard the shot and then everyone around them was dropping to the ground.

the awning didnt seem to blocking the view of kirk from those further back. one man about 80 feet back said the crowd dropped in a wave from near the stage and back vs the crowd all dropping at the same time. Maybe if you arent close enough to focus on the small area the blood was coming from your brain cant register anything really in the half second before everyone around you starts to drop? i'm guessing if charlie was mid word or mid sentence maybe that stop in action would have been more noticeable?

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What level of situational awareness are you ascribing to these people? I would have defaulted to the crowd being aware that the main speaker, who is in front of them at the time, had been shot. What else were they at the rally for if not to see the main speaker?
In current era of social media addiction, many are 'there' just to be at "an event". Many of you are probably aware of the phenomenon of attendees making a video of an entire popular music event but afterwards being unable to discuss what was played and in what order. IMO this subset of attendees can be expected to possess almost no situational awareness and to react in some pretty random ways to any unexpected event.
 
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Not sure what to think about this at the moment. It seems there's a lot of well reasoned skepticism from various gun enthusiasts/experts that the alleged gun/ammunition type used would have created a significantly different impact, and definitely an exit wound, which the footage from behind Kirk shows did not happen.
 
It seems there's a lot of well reasoned skepticism from various gun enthusiasts/experts that the alleged gun/ammunition type used would have created a significantly different impact, and definitely an exit wound, which the footage from behind Kirk shows did not happen.

I haven't watched the video of Kirk being hit, but some accounts suggest he was hit on the left side of his neck, causing an immediate catastrophic haemorrhage.
I don't know what direction Kirk was facing relative to the shooter.

We do not know the findings of any medical investigations other than there was a gunshot wound to the neck. We do not conclusively know that there wasn't an exit wound. As far as I know, we know the type of cartridge (allegedly) used, .30-06 Springfield, but not the type of bullet.

There are indications that on autopsy a bullet fragment was found but not the whole bullet:
External Quote:
A bullet fragment found lodged in Charlie Kirk's body showed signs of it could have been fired from suspect Tyler Robinson's rifle, newly unsealed court documents showed.
It's the latest blow to conspiracy theories that have dogged the conservative activist's killing.
That fragment was found to be a .30-caliber "deformed/damaged bullet jacket fragment" according to a report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) submitted to a Utah court in January and unsealed Wednesday.
New York Times 16 April 2026, "Newly unsealed ATF report on bullet that killed Charlie Kirk reveals what the feds really found — and the link to Tyler Robinson's gun", Priscilla DeGregory, Alex Oliveira, https://nypost.com/2026/04/16/us-ne...atf-ballistics-report-unsealed-by-utah-judge/

Also, New York Times 31 March 2026, "Prosecutors reveal what analysis of Charlie Kirk bullet and Tyler Robinson's gun really found", Priscilla DeGregory
External Quote:
Claims emerged this week that the "bullet jacket fragment" recovered from Kirk's body didn't match the .30-06 hunting rifle Robinson allegedly used in the September 2025 assassination — fanning online conspiracy theories about the conservative icon's death.
My emphasis, note, not "fragments", https://nypost.com/2026/03/31/us-ne...-bullet-and-tyler-robinsons-gun-really-found/

We know the ATF couldn't conclusively match the evidence to the alleged shooter's rifle, so it was either partial (not a complete bullet) or the whole bullet was present but substantially fragmented or deformed. The apparent references to a fragment (singular) in the NYT (including a quote from the ATF) suggest the former.
If the latter -the whole bullet, or a large percentage of it, was retrieved- it must have been significantly deformed or fragmented, as it could not be forensically linked to Tyler's rifle.*
This might indicate an expanding or fragmenting bullet which is more likely to remain within the target. not a military-style bullet with "full metal jacket".

External Quote:
Commercially manufactured rifles chambered in .30-06 are popular for hunting. [Tyler's rifle was in that category].
... Many hunting loads... ...use expanding bullets that can deliver rapid energy transfer to targets.
Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield
Expanding bullets lack the hard full metal jacket, and are more prone to fragmentation on impact.

Deforming/ expanding bullets (e.g. hollow points, soft points) are designed to increase energy transferred to the target ideally without passing through.
External Quote:
Expanding bullets are less likely to pass through the target, and if they do, they will exit at a lower velocity. This reduces the risk of accidental injury to bystanders.
Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
Full-metal jacket ammunition may be doctored to create an improvised deforming/ fragmenting bullet, e.g. by making cruciform cuts through the tip. Such "home-made" expediencies have unreliable performance and can fragment in flight.

The references to a (single?) bullet fragment found on autopsy suggests (to me) that most of that bullet did not come to rest in Mr Kirk's body.
If so, either a significant portion of it did indeed exit his body, or (I suspect, much less likely) Mr Kirk was struck by fragments from an already fragmented bullet.

A (hypothetical) expanding or fragmenting bullet, if it were arrested by striking bone, might not cause an exit wound, but had this happened we might expect most of the bullet to be retrieved on autopsy, probably with/ as a number of fragments, which doesn't appear to be the case.
External Quote:

-Full metal jacketed bullets produce less tissue damage and tend to travel through the body undeformed
- Semijacketed ammunition creates the classic lead snowstorm appearance on Xray due to the peeling back of the jacket as it travels through the body, releasing numerous, small lead fragments
"Autopsy & forensics, Types of injuries, Gunshot wounds", section Rifle wounds, Lorenzo Gitto, Robert Stoppacher, Pathology Outlines website https://www.pathologyoutlines.com/topic/forensicsgunshotwounds.html

If a 30-06 Springfield-type round was used, and the bullet hypothetically travelled through the side of the neck (that is, not on a trajectory through/ near the centre of the neck encountering bone) it would cause significant tearing at the proposed distance of approx. 130 metres (as would any full-power rifle cartridge). This is regardless of it being FMJ or expanding, or if it fragmented or not.

On each side of the neck, the carotid artery is a little under 25mm/ 1 inch or so beneath the skin's surface (Science Insights website says "roughly 1.5 to 2 centimeters (about half an inch to three-quarters of an inch) beneath the skin in most adults", https://scienceinsights.org/how-deep-is-the-carotid-artery/). It shares the carotid sheath with the internal jugular vein and vagus nerve.
A puncture or severing of the carotid fits very well with witness descriptions of a "fountain" of blood. Due to tearing effects, a full-power rifle bullet wouldn't even need to reach that depth to damage the carotid. The entry wound might be contiguous with the exit wound, if those terms still had meaning in this scenario, essentially a continuous wound across the side of the neck.

Again, from what we currently know it might be unlikely that a whole bullet/ fragments constituting most of a bullet were found during autopsy.
Until we know more, I think it's possible that Mr Kirk was struck on one side of the neck, damaging structures necessary for life.
The bullet must have at least partially fragmented, probably on impact, as one fragment was found on autopsy. Other fragments do not appear to be accounted for.
A second possibility is that the shooter used an expanding or fragmenting bullet, there was no major exit wound and the bullet/ most of it was recovered during autopsy but press coverage has been misleading, and the ATF, court professionals have failed to clarify what they know.

A third is a conspiracy, and the available information is unreliable or deliberately manipulated. Many tragic/ violent events and other dramatic happenings in public life attract such theories, most have little supporting evidence and fewer are ever borne out.

Fourth, a miracle, or supposed amazing strength on the part of Mr Kirk, possibly both, stopped the bullet to save others.
This has been suggested by Turning Point USA spokesman Andrew Kolvet (Turning Point USA was co-founded by Kirk).
External Quote:

The surgeon who operated on Charlie Kirk said the bullet that killed him miraculously did not exit his neck, likely saving others from getting hit.
Turning Point USA spokesman Andrew Kolvet revealed on Saturday night that he had spoken with the surgeon who made the comments directly to him.
In a post on X, Kolvet mentioned... "...the absence of an exit wound could be seen as a miracle, and I want people to understand that."

...The fact that Kirk's neck could stop such a powerful bullet, which is designed to kill animals many times larger than humans, was described as a "true miracle" by the surgeon who talked with Kolvet.

The surgeon further stated, "His bone density and health were so remarkable that he seemed like the man of steel. The bullet should have passed right through him, potentially injuring anyone behind him as well."
The surgeon reportedly said this was a miracle, as it likely saved the people standing behind him.
...'Even in death, Charlie managed to save the lives of those around him,' Kolvet wrote. 'Remarkable. Miraculous.'
From "Surgeon Discloses Details of Charlie Kirk's Wound Recovery Miracle" (a questionable title), Internewscast website (lots of pop-ups), 21 September 2025 https://internewscast.com/news/surgeon-discloses-details-of-charlie-kirks-wound-recovery-miracle/

I'm not sure Mr Kolvet's comments (or the surgeon's, if accurately reported by Kolvet) are helpful; perhaps they were intended to provide some form of solace to Mr Kirk's loved ones. I hope they aren't seriously regarded as evidence of a miracle.


*The rifling striations used to match bullets to firearms can still be present on the lower ends of expanding bullets, e.g. the photo of a .458 bullet in the Wikipedia article Expanding bullet, link above. It seems that no substantial fragment like this was found during the autopsy- if it were, forensically matching it to the rifle would have been possible.
 
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I haven't watched the video of Kirk being hit,
This seems necessary for the discussion. But it's totally understandable to no want to watch it. When I first saw it (it auto-played on X on my phone) I thought he'd been shot from short range and from his right side with maybe a fairly weak homemade gun.

I don't know what direction Kirk was facing relative to the shooter.
The alleged shooter was directly in front of Kirk at around 130m.

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I'm no gun expert but from some basic research the supposed rifle used to kill Kirk compared to say that used to kill JFK, is significantly more powerful and fired a heavier round. I think we've all seen the Zapruder film and the horrific damage it caused. Yet, what we see with Kirk is different with many ballistics commentators saying a shot from the front would have made a definite/significant exit wound and it being impossible for the round to not pass through.

Maybe they're all wrong.

The camera view from behind is here (it has no blood or gore so is safe to watch).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/live/5-HUyv9LyMg?si=WV21Jq1g2fKUvn-b&t=2074
[34:34]
 
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