The towers had few girders. They used long span trusses between perimeter and core (actually attached to a belt truss at the core end.) In the core area they had beams between columns.
Correction noted.Correction... the floor trusses were supported on the core side on a belt girder... not a belt truss.
I'm simply questioning the evidence "molten steel". There was plenty of low-melting-point metal and flammable substances in the WTC.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPu9IqBfMIw
Please pay attention to the colour of the pouring metal at a specific time that is most visible:
1:40 - 1:50
It is fair to say this pouring liquid metal is glowing red hot and has been established.
Here are two videos of the only two options I've heard:
A video of Molten Aluminium
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVg8jx51nXM
And a video of Molten Steel
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlfMSOb8f18
Which one is most representative of what is seen there?
Molten aluminium does not radiate when poured. When it contained and static, it may glow red, but when it pours and separates from a constant heat source it just appears like liquid silver.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEEOkMW1CYI
Watch carefully between 2:23 where you see red hot aluminum, static in a container with constant heat till 2:40 as it turns silver when pouring.
The molten scrap steel is white-hot, not red-hot.
The poured Al seems to be just barely above Al's melting point (which is 660 °C for pure Al, lower for impure or alloyed) - it seems to cool to solid very quickly. What does it look like when heated to, say, 1000 °C?
As for speculation that perhaps the flow from the buiding's corner is molten Al from the plane: That would be alloys with significant additions of other metals such as Mg, Zn or Cu. How do they glow?
Go to 1:39, you can clearly see the 'red hot' molten aluminum heated to the temperatures you requested. It cools upon contact with air when released from it's melting pot. What we see cannot be aluminium as it ALWAYS rapidly cools upon contact with air, almost never retaining its glow outside it's melting chamber.
Please do not go off-topic. These 'elements' you loosely mention have no relevance and have never been considered to my knowledge.
Mg (Magnesium) glows white-hot when ignited and molten, and I don't see how so much would be found on one floor of an office building.
.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HOB_6SLhKA
Zn (Zinc) gives off a blue flame when ignited and is silver like aluminium when molten.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IzZMzNfUT0
Copper is, however, a likely alternative as it does glow red:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0tqcZkQ0dQ
but again I do not see a likely source for that much copper pouring out - wiring is all I can think of if you can suggest any other alternatives.
What we see requires a good amount of material to have been melted and produced - steel is the most likely candidate as it's in abundance.
You dismiss my point about steel, by pointing out a slight distinction in colour, which by why way 'white' is not all a correct observation for the steel in the foundry, and then go on to mention other ad hoc metals? 2 of which are are pulled out of nowhere. It is simply glowing a brighter/lighter hue, then compare that to burning Mg (which is completely white) and you will find it much closer to that of the molten metal we see coming out the tower.
I can find another video of molten steel with a better colour if you like:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGedYdPpxGA
This seems to be the more red-orange tone we see.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngmAFvxBH7Y
Surely all that 'white metal' can't be creating radiating orange light? Even in the original video, I linked you can clearly see the orange tint. That is borderline denialism to suggest otherwise.
Here is an example of how Aluminium can appear red, note that the container is red and keeping it hot (makeshift plaster foundry), keeping the aluminium warm; notice how it turns to silver when it falls out the bottom of the grinder within seconds (if you pay close attention you can even see it turn silverish upon contact with the grinder although this occurs very fast so try slowing it down):
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGedYdPpxGA
I'm ruling out what it isn't - which it isn't aluminium clearly. I showed steel since it is the only other mentioned option, and provided a link to that, I did nothing more than that. I agree I don't know what it is.
The molten scrap steel is white-hot, not red-hot.
The poured Al seems to be just barely above Al's melting point (which is 660 °C for pure Al, lower for impure or alloyed) - it seems to cool to solid very quickly. What does it look like when heated to, say, 1000 °C?
.
What thermite? Thermite is a fantasy.Er . . . thermite?
Edit: After a bit of checking, probably not; the ignition temperature of solid Al seems to be higher than that. I would expect it to be red hot, however.
...of what? See no-click policy, please.Go to 1:39,
Can you explain how you "see" the temperature?you can clearly see the 'red hot' molten aluminum heated to the temperatures you requested.
Bare assertion.It cools upon contact with air when released from it's melting pot. What we see cannot be aluminium as it ALWAYS rapidly cools upon contact with air, almost never retaining its glow outside it's melting chamber.
Uhm ... I had said:Please do not go off-topic. These 'elements' you loosely mention have no relevance and have never been considered to my knowledge.
Mg (Magnesium) glows white-hot ... Zn (Zinc) gives off a blue flame ... Copper is, however, a likely alternative as it does glow red:...
but again I do not see a likely source for that much copper pouring out - wiring is all I can think of if you can suggest any other alternatives.
The important word here is "alloy". An alloy is a metal that has lower amounts of other elements mixed in....molten Al from the plane: That would be alloys with significant additions of other metals such as Mg, Zn or Cu...
As Truthers never tire to point out, steel is actually a highly UNlikely candidate despite its abundance, because of its high melting point. Al (alloys), lead and copper probably were also relatively abundant in the buildings, at least locally.What we see requires a good amount of material to have been melted and produced - steel is the most likely candidate as it's in abundance.
Yes, sure, you can find lots of things on YouTube. Which is why I wrote:I can find another video of molten steel with a better colour if you like
...
This seems to be the more red-orange tone we see.
...
Surely all that 'white metal' can't be creating radiating orange light?
The short then is: We don't know, and probably can't know, what this flow is made of - and neither do you.
You wish you could rule out aluminium, but you can't, for you did not considerI'm ruling out what it isn't - which it isn't aluminium clearly. I showed steel since it is the only other mentioned option, and provided a link to that, I did nothing more than that. I agree I don't know what it is.
What thermite? Thermite is a fantasy.
What does it look like when heated to, say, 1000 °C?
I thought it was obvious that I meant "Thermite as part of the means to demolishing the WTC towers is a fantasy".Feed 'thermite' into Wikipedia. I can probably find videos of the thermite reaction being demonstrated [meaning I have seen videos and could probably find them again].
The bit of digging I did suggested that metallic aluminium [yes, molten; edit: I shouldn't have said "solid"] would catch fire somewhere between 1000°C and 2000°C. The former figure, quoted in #488, was what I was originally referring to:
I thought it was obvious that I meant "Thermite as part of the means to demolishing the WTC towers is a fantasy".
The short then is: We don't know, and probably can't know, what this flow is made of - and neither do you.
If the claim is that there's evidence of molten steel, and it turns out there isn't, then that claim of evidence has been debunked.Ok, then by your logic, we can't rule out that it isn't steel either. So this isn't 'debunking' molten steel then is it?
Can you explain how you "see" the temperature?
Bare assertion.
Of course it cools in a medium (air) cooler than itself, but how fast would depend on a number of factors, wouldn't it?
As Truthers never tire to point out, steel is actually a highly UNlikely candidate despite its abundance, because of its high melting point. Al (alloys), lead and copper probably were also relatively abundant in the buildings, at least locally.
You wish you could rule out aluminium, but you can't, for you did not consider
The short then is: We don't know, and probably can't know, what this flow is made of - and neither do you.
- alloys
- molten Al catching fire
- impurities and debris mixed into an Al flow
- anything else we fail to consider here
It isnt clear that this for sure isn't molten steel anymore than it for sure isn't molten aluminium because of reasons Oystein has stated - it's difficult to ascertain from a video. All this post has done is make arguments for why it couldn't be molten steel. It hasn't really proved or debunked anything. The arguments are not convincing.If the claim is that there's evidence of molten steel, and it turns out there isn't, then that claim of evidence has been debunked.
We can't rule out a nest of dragons under the pile either, but without evidence then why would you believe it?
Can you quote what you are referring to here?All this post has done is make arguments for why it couldn't be molten steel.
No, that does not follow by my logic.Ok, then by your logic, we can't rule out that it isn't steel either. So this isn't 'debunking' molten steel then is it?
Actually, if you look at the context, you implicitly did state a temperature - 1000 °C:I said 'red hot' you can see red can't you? I never stated a temperature, I stated a visual indiciator.Can you explain how you "see" the temperature?
you can clearly see the 'red hot' molten aluminum heated to the temperatures you requested.The molten scrap steel is white-hot, not red-hot.
The poured Al seems to be just barely above Al's melting point (which is 660 °C for pure Al, lower for impure or alloyed) - it seems to cool to solid very quickly. What does it look like when heated to, say, 1000 °C?
Huh? No. Since we are talking about the observation of a material outside the building, conditions inside no longer play a role.How fast it would it would lose its luminescence would depend on factors, particularly inside the building.
Why do you conjecture "metal"?But in the case of the molten 'metal' (undecided) leaking out the side of the building,
Well, I do not know the behavior of every metal or alloy or whatever at every temperature. Do you?it's basically in touch with mostly fresh air, no more additional heat than if you pour it out of a melting pot so it's likely negligible. You nitpick pretty weak points.
I am all for ruling out stuff. But I am realistic about the prospects of positive identification. Ain't gonna happen.I don't wish I could rule anything out, you can actually rule things out using logic and science, which is what this site is supposed to be for isn't it? You seem to be using diversion tactics as used by Public Relations in their various deceptions like the Tobacco Industry. "we can't know for certain what it is and isn't" I was ruling out what you had listed, I was not out to rule out what hadn't been suggested. Maybe if you would suggest these, instead of making non-arguments and deflecting, then we could see the possibilty.