NewAmericanCenturySucks
Member
I was referring to MH370's flight path whilst still aloft.
I find the US position ("gosh, I guess all our post-9/11 aircraft tracking systems take a ZEE ROW on this one") not credible.
Flight MH370 Speculation
- Thread starter TWCobra
- Start date
- Status
I find the US position ("gosh, I guess all our post-9/11 aircraft tracking systems take a ZEE ROW on this one") not credible.
TWCobra
Senior Member.
The US does not have god-like power yet, to track aircraft on the other side of the world that apparently didn't want to be tracked.
Nor does it have the power to remotely control foreign owned airliners, for reasons explained here.
[URL="https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh370-debunked-image-of-plane-over-andaman-islands-on-mapbox-map.3304/#post-101057"]MH370: Debunked: Image of plane over Andaman Islands on Mapbox Map[/URL]
Nor does it have the power to remotely control foreign owned airliners, for reasons explained here.
[URL="https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh370-debunked-image-of-plane-over-andaman-islands-on-mapbox-map.3304/#post-101057"]MH370: Debunked: Image of plane over Andaman Islands on Mapbox Map[/URL]
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
they should first dedicate a satellite that would track the plane, it's not easy procedure and they wouldn't fiddle with that without specific request from malaysian government
TWCobra
Senior Member.
Further info to hand from ATSB and Flightglobal:
http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releas..._Definition_of_Sea_Floor_Wide_Area_Search.pdf
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mh370-inquiry-puzzles-over-initial-satcom-message-400804/
http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releas..._Definition_of_Sea_Floor_Wide_Area_Search.pdf
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mh370-inquiry-puzzles-over-initial-satcom-message-400804/
TWCobra
Senior Member.
What FlightGlobal are saying in effect with the power outage probably caused by the generator supply to the AC buses being disconnected. You would never do that in normal operation as all it leaves you is emergency instruments working off a battery. The satcom works off the Right AC bus. Normally if you lose one AC bus, a bus tie opens to connect the bus to the opposite generator. In this case it appears both were deliberately turned off, once again pointing to deliberate intent and in depth knowledge.
NewAmericanCenturySucks
Member
Funny, because I consider prime-minesterial assurances of autheticity evidence FOR a cover-up. Nobody at that level is (allowed to be) THAT stupid. The misguiding of the search HAD to be intentional.
Don't know why - maybe they're stalling for time, for whatever reason.
Of course the plane itself is not a target under this CT. The point of this kind of black op would be to beta-test capability against live opposition, and/or gather/preserve intel/technology that may have been onboard.
MikeC
Closed Account
That's remarkably trusting of you!
Given your premise I guess so - but I think your premise has no basis in fact.
TWCobra
Senior Member.
NACS... you appear to be proceeding on the basis that a large cover-up/conspiracy is the default option. May I suggest you go back to square one, review the available evidence impartially and proceed from there?
The northern search area happened only because signals were received that seem to be from the FDR pinger. Put your self in the shoes of the searching authority. When such signals are apparently received on the arc, what would you do?
As far as Tony Abbotts pronouncement is concerned...
Seriously????? He is a grand-standing politician in the mould of all of grand-standing politicians. Forget what he said. He knows nothing about the intricacies of the problems. You don't seem to have much of a grasp either. Sorry if that appears to be impolite.
The northern search area happened only because signals were received that seem to be from the FDR pinger. Put your self in the shoes of the searching authority. When such signals are apparently received on the arc, what would you do?
As far as Tony Abbotts pronouncement is concerned...
Seriously????? He is a grand-standing politician in the mould of all of grand-standing politicians. Forget what he said. He knows nothing about the intricacies of the problems. You don't seem to have much of a grasp either. Sorry if that appears to be impolite.
zebra100
Member
Are you sure? If US wanted to get rid of 20 Chinese scientists in China and Malaysia-try that and see what hell will be broken-and think a better one than this by yourself
Jason
Senior Member
A power interruption happens when the engines flame out, which couldn't have been the reason why this happened the first time. It could've happened if he tried flying low to avoid being detected by radar, but that doesn't make sense since sat data is still being received while on the ground. They there's the loss of critical systems. What could cause the loss of critical systems. Can a pilot be responsible for this by doing something in the cockpit, like turning em off?There are only a few reasons for a log-on, it says, among them a power interruption to the satellite data unit, loss of the link due to aircraft attitude, or a loss of critical systems.
Jason
Senior Member
I have to admit though, it's probably the biggest coincidence in a tragic event in recent times that I can think of. Where 4 of the 5 patent holders went down in a plane, leaving the company 100% of the shares, in top secret radar cloaking technology. It's also ironic that these individuals had the ability to cloak radar and produce false targets, and they were on a plane that disappeared from radar and cut out communications. I know its all one big coincidence, but wow?
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Are these things actually true though?
Can you cite references for these things - 20 scientists, 4 patent holders, top secret radar cloaking, etc?
(preferably not beforeitsnews and infowars references)
zebra100
Member
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vooke
Active Member
Jason
Senior Member
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-ELECTRONIC-WARFARE-and-radar-defence-company
Freescale Semiconductor, which makes powerful microchips for industries including defence, released the powerful new products to the American market on March 3.
Five days later, Flight MH370 took off from Kuala Lumpur for Beijing with 239 people on board including 20 working for Freescale.
Twelve were from Malaysia, while eight were Chinese nationals.
Freescale’s shareholders include the Carlyle Group of private equity investors whose past advisers have included ex-US president George Bush Sr and former British Prime Minister John Major. Carlyle’s previous heavyweight clients include the Saudi Binladin Group, the construction firm owned by the family of Osama bin Laden.
The company says they were flying to China to improve its consumer products operations, but Freescale’s fresh links to electronic warfare technology is likely to trigger more speculation and deepen the mystery
“Four days after the missing flight MH370 a patent is approved by the Patent Office, four of the five Patent holders are Chinese employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Austin TX.
“Patent is divided up on 20 per cent increments to five holders.
“Peidong Wang, Suzhou, China, (20 per cent); Zhijun Chen, Suzhou, China, (20 per cent); Zhihong Cheng, Suzhou, China, (20 per cent); Li Ying, Suzhou, China, (20 per cent); Freescale Semiconductor (20 per cent).
“If a patent holder dies, then the remaining holders equally share the dividends of the deceased if not disputed in a will.
“If four of the five dies, then the remaining one Patent holder gets 100 per cent of the wealth of the patent.
“That remaining live Patent holder is Freescale Semiconductor.”
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Yeah, but nowhere does that say 20 scientists directly responsible for any cloaking tech or patent holders.
Nowhere does anyone establish that. Just that the company did some interesting work in that field.
That story just says,
, not that they had anything to do with said 'warfare gadget'.A US technology company which had 20 senior staff on board Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 had just launched a new electronic warfare gadget for military radar systems in the days before the Boeing 777 went missing.
That's all that's said about them.The 20 Freescale employees, among 239 people on flight MH370, were mostly engineers and other experts working to make the company's chip facilities in Tianjin, China, and Kuala Lumpur more efficient,
The patent doesn't sound anything like 'top-secret cloaking technology'.
Freescale was already the patent holder, they worked for them.System for optimizing number of dies produced on a wafer
Abstract
A system for optimizing the number of dies that can be fabricated on a wafer uses a die number optimization (DNO) routine to determine a maximum number of dies for a target die area (TDA), and generate an initial result list of die shapes that have the maximum number of dies for the TDA. Optionally, a die size optimization (DSO) routine can be executed to determine a list of die shapes having a maximum die area corresponding to the maximum number of dies, a first list of optimized die shapes having a maximum area utilization (AU) for a decreased TDA, and/or a second list of optimized die shapes having a minimum AU for an increased TDA. A candidate list (CL) of the various die shapes can be generated, and entries from the CL automatically selected and/or displayed to indicate proposed wafer layouts.
Inventors: Wang; Peidong (Suzhou, CN), Chen; Zhijun (Suzhou, CN), Cheng; Zhihong (Suzhou, CN), Ying; Li (Suzhou, CN)
Applicant:
Name City State Country Type
Wang; Peidong
Chen; Zhijun
Cheng; Zhihong
Ying; Li
Suzhou
Suzhou
Suzhou
Suzhou
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
CN
CN
CN
CN
Assignee: Freescale Semiconductor, Inc. (Austin, TX)
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,671,381.PN.&OS=PN/8
Also,
it's not clear the four men referenced as patent co-holders actually were on
Flight 370, as their names (as rendered above) don't appear on the flight manifest. (It's possible that the seeming absence of some matching names from the manifest could be due to slight differences in the transliterations of those persons' names from Chinese to English, however.) http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiapatent.asp
ConspiracyAtheist
Member
I must say; out of the 4 or 5 forums that I variably check in relation to the subject of MH370, this happens to be the one with the least technical discussion, least discussion of facts and evidence, and most farfetched.
This is not a knock on the site whatsoever, but maybe a knock on some of its members, and I think members should be encouraged to use a little more fact/evidence based dispositions. For example, as Pete Tar pointed out, "Jason" decided to cut and paste some excerpts from that express.co.uk article about the patent holders, but failed to post this little bit at the end of the article:
Any talk about this patent/freescale semiconductor/cloaking technology is not only completely baseless, but its just absurd, and something I'd expect to see in a sci-fi movie to be honest. Unless any additional information surfaces having to do with this (which I would easily bet $25,000 against), talk of freescale semiconductor and the patent holders should be prohibited.
Same goes for the US government having to do with the disappearance of of MH370. I just can't rationally or logically see a way that one could claim that this theory is the most plausible out of all of the theories. If you subscribe to this notion, than either you just haven't been paying attention much at all to the case of MH370 over the past 3 months, or you are just an irrational person.
I think that maybe the most interesting of the new developments is the following statement from a Telegraph article posted just today:
This would be my theory as of now, solely based off of everything known in this case. I believe it was the pilots plan to have this plane disappear forever secondary to his suicide, and the homocide of everybody on board. In doing so, he wanted to embarrass the Malaysian government by intentionally making them look foolish, as well as create a lasting mystery of the final resting place of the plane.
The new information seems to indicate that there was a complete loss of power on the plane. I believe that this was the doing of Zaharie, and he tried to make it look like the plane was undergoing a massive technical/electrical problem. He tried to mimic what would happen had the plane undergone a massive electrical problem (loss of comms, turn-around, fly low preparing to land).
However, once he re-traversed Malaysia, of which he had some knowledge of their military procedure, he too had knowledge that he wouldn't be able to traverse Indonesia like he did Malaysia without being spotted and action being taken.
So he skirted around Indonesia, made a turn South when he was in the clear, and away he went, into the depths and darkness of the uninhabited Southern Indian Ocean.
I didn't mention how he killed all the passengers and crew, but rest assure if he had this intent, it would not be too tough.
I think the purpose of making it look like an electrical failure with a turn-around and need for immediate landing was mainly to confuse the Malaysian ATC and military. In this case, they would, if anything, expect the plane to land somewhere rather than take action and assume something more nefarious was happening. So when the plane doesn't land, they are just left twiddling their thumbs, which more or less is exactly what happened. If this scenario is correct, then Zahari executed it perfectly. It's an atrocious and sad act. Any glaring holes in the theory?
This is not a knock on the site whatsoever, but maybe a knock on some of its members, and I think members should be encouraged to use a little more fact/evidence based dispositions. For example, as Pete Tar pointed out, "Jason" decided to cut and paste some excerpts from that express.co.uk article about the patent holders, but failed to post this little bit at the end of the article:
"However, the absurd theory does not add up. Although a Freescale patent does exist under number US8650327, none of the names listed actually appear on the passenger manifest released by the Malaysian authorities."
Any talk about this patent/freescale semiconductor/cloaking technology is not only completely baseless, but its just absurd, and something I'd expect to see in a sci-fi movie to be honest. Unless any additional information surfaces having to do with this (which I would easily bet $25,000 against), talk of freescale semiconductor and the patent holders should be prohibited.
Same goes for the US government having to do with the disappearance of of MH370. I just can't rationally or logically see a way that one could claim that this theory is the most plausible out of all of the theories. If you subscribe to this notion, than either you just haven't been paying attention much at all to the case of MH370 over the past 3 months, or you are just an irrational person.
I think that maybe the most interesting of the new developments is the following statement from a Telegraph article posted just today:
The report also notes that the plane's in-flight entertainment system delivered a satellite message 90 seconds after the first power failure but not after the second failure hours later. This, it says, "could indicate a complete loss of generated electrical power shortly after the seventh handshake."
This would be my theory as of now, solely based off of everything known in this case. I believe it was the pilots plan to have this plane disappear forever secondary to his suicide, and the homocide of everybody on board. In doing so, he wanted to embarrass the Malaysian government by intentionally making them look foolish, as well as create a lasting mystery of the final resting place of the plane.
The new information seems to indicate that there was a complete loss of power on the plane. I believe that this was the doing of Zaharie, and he tried to make it look like the plane was undergoing a massive technical/electrical problem. He tried to mimic what would happen had the plane undergone a massive electrical problem (loss of comms, turn-around, fly low preparing to land).
However, once he re-traversed Malaysia, of which he had some knowledge of their military procedure, he too had knowledge that he wouldn't be able to traverse Indonesia like he did Malaysia without being spotted and action being taken.
So he skirted around Indonesia, made a turn South when he was in the clear, and away he went, into the depths and darkness of the uninhabited Southern Indian Ocean.
I didn't mention how he killed all the passengers and crew, but rest assure if he had this intent, it would not be too tough.
I think the purpose of making it look like an electrical failure with a turn-around and need for immediate landing was mainly to confuse the Malaysian ATC and military. In this case, they would, if anything, expect the plane to land somewhere rather than take action and assume something more nefarious was happening. So when the plane doesn't land, they are just left twiddling their thumbs, which more or less is exactly what happened. If this scenario is correct, then Zahari executed it perfectly. It's an atrocious and sad act. Any glaring holes in the theory?
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Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Well to be fair, this is a speculation thread so unsupported theories are okay. Usually evidence is required, but as there is little in this case...
There are a couple more MH370 threads with a bit more technical substance to them, this one is more free-range.
You are of course encouraged to criticise and point out where and why a theory is implausible.
I only wanted to put a check on the 'chinese whispers' aspect of the freescale thing. An inferred possible connection to cloaking technology becomes a definite fact, technicians and engineers become scientists, etc.
(I arranged your post a little to make it easier to read)
I wish to share my view here on what has truly happened to the flight MH370 on 8th March 2014: -
1. It was started off neither by mechanical fault, hijack nor suicide. Or may I quote an unprecedented event has taken place that has led to a catastrophic mechanical failure on that ill-fated plane.
2. Simply, the plane was just at the wrong place, but at the right time and right condition. It was merely a natural tragedy that has taken place.
3. The plane was hit by a meteorite at a flash speed force that flared up the cockpit. A rapid decompression has taken place at the cockpit, initially. The fortified cockpit door has temporarily prevented decompression from taking place in the cabin with passengers. The pilot(s) tried miserably to control and salvage the plane, setting a new direction and switching on autopilot mode.
4. A few seconds later, an explosive cabin decompression set in due to the vast air pressure differences at high altitude with a thundering sound (when the plane climbed to 47,000 feet). The fire at the cockpit was instantly blown off (imaging to open up a champagne bottle). A heavy fog immediately filled the cabin interior as the relative humidity of cabin air changed as the air cooled and condensed.
5. All crews and passengers were presumably to have passed out or been dead during the time of explosive cabin decompression. There was a scene of absolute silence that filled in the cabin and the cockpit.
6. On an autopilot mode, the plane continued to cruise below 30,000 feet and circulate the Indian Ocean based on the pre-setting engaged by the pilot before his last breath. In fact, the pilot has performed a superbly professional job during a dire emergency by setting the plane to circulate around the least populated area such as the vast Indian Ocean rather than above someone else’s house. This was probably attributed to his deep interest and vast experiences gained through his constant in-house flight simulating practices as well as his rational response upon knowing the slim chance of landing the troubled plane himself after losing all the possible communication with the ground control tower.
7. The plane adjusted itself automatically based on the pre-setting parameters and continued to cruise at much lower altitude (i.e. closing to a plane landing altitude), thus evading all the radar detection in the surrounding countries. In fact, the plane did pass through the Andaman Islands and up until the Maldives southern tip islands before turning back in a circular route as shown in the Google map attachment.
8. The plane finally ended in the Indian Ocean due to out of fuel tentatively at the spot indicated on the attached Google map with coordinates: - 7.321795, 97.778432 i.e. north-eastern of Cocos (Keeling) Islands or south-western of Sumatera Island. There was a high chance that the plane glided into the ocean with very minimal debris remaining on the water surface. In other words, the plane may well be staying afloat at the 5th arc (instead of the 7th arc) of the Inmarsat’s satellite reading and continued to transmit the electronic ‘ping’ signal for some more two hours before finally sinking into the bottom of the ocean.
9. At the end of the day, it was neither the pilot’s fault, nor the MAS’s fault, nor the Boeing’s fault. Nobody and nothing were at fault. It was merely a pure natural tragedy – the plane being at a wrong place, but at a right time and condition.
10. Last but not least, I truly hope the relevant authorities or governments could refocus the search area in the Indian Ocean into the above mentioned coordinates.
1. It was started off neither by mechanical fault, hijack nor suicide. Or may I quote an unprecedented event has taken place that has led to a catastrophic mechanical failure on that ill-fated plane.
2. Simply, the plane was just at the wrong place, but at the right time and right condition. It was merely a natural tragedy that has taken place.
3. The plane was hit by a meteorite at a flash speed force that flared up the cockpit. A rapid decompression has taken place at the cockpit, initially. The fortified cockpit door has temporarily prevented decompression from taking place in the cabin with passengers. The pilot(s) tried miserably to control and salvage the plane, setting a new direction and switching on autopilot mode.
4. A few seconds later, an explosive cabin decompression set in due to the vast air pressure differences at high altitude with a thundering sound (when the plane climbed to 47,000 feet). The fire at the cockpit was instantly blown off (imaging to open up a champagne bottle). A heavy fog immediately filled the cabin interior as the relative humidity of cabin air changed as the air cooled and condensed.
5. All crews and passengers were presumably to have passed out or been dead during the time of explosive cabin decompression. There was a scene of absolute silence that filled in the cabin and the cockpit.
6. On an autopilot mode, the plane continued to cruise below 30,000 feet and circulate the Indian Ocean based on the pre-setting engaged by the pilot before his last breath. In fact, the pilot has performed a superbly professional job during a dire emergency by setting the plane to circulate around the least populated area such as the vast Indian Ocean rather than above someone else’s house. This was probably attributed to his deep interest and vast experiences gained through his constant in-house flight simulating practices as well as his rational response upon knowing the slim chance of landing the troubled plane himself after losing all the possible communication with the ground control tower.
7. The plane adjusted itself automatically based on the pre-setting parameters and continued to cruise at much lower altitude (i.e. closing to a plane landing altitude), thus evading all the radar detection in the surrounding countries. In fact, the plane did pass through the Andaman Islands and up until the Maldives southern tip islands before turning back in a circular route as shown in the Google map attachment.
8. The plane finally ended in the Indian Ocean due to out of fuel tentatively at the spot indicated on the attached Google map with coordinates: - 7.321795, 97.778432 i.e. north-eastern of Cocos (Keeling) Islands or south-western of Sumatera Island. There was a high chance that the plane glided into the ocean with very minimal debris remaining on the water surface. In other words, the plane may well be staying afloat at the 5th arc (instead of the 7th arc) of the Inmarsat’s satellite reading and continued to transmit the electronic ‘ping’ signal for some more two hours before finally sinking into the bottom of the ocean.
9. At the end of the day, it was neither the pilot’s fault, nor the MAS’s fault, nor the Boeing’s fault. Nobody and nothing were at fault. It was merely a pure natural tragedy – the plane being at a wrong place, but at a right time and condition.
10. Last but not least, I truly hope the relevant authorities or governments could refocus the search area in the Indian Ocean into the above mentioned coordinates.
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
3. meteorite? I'm not sure even if you had precise control of the meteorite you could make up such scenario.
4. It never got to over 40K feet, it was a radar mistake confirmed by various sources, the radar was simply far away and not calibrated well.
6. this contradicts what you have written in 5.
the pilot on his last breath couldn't be conscious enough (and have enough time) to fiddle with waypoints so that it goes precisely around indenosian airspace, not to mention low-level flying above malaysian mainland which autopilot could not execute
we agree in basic points but not after going around Indonesia, for me it's much more probable that he had some goal and here is my theory that explains how and why
4. It never got to over 40K feet, it was a radar mistake confirmed by various sources, the radar was simply far away and not calibrated well.
6. this contradicts what you have written in 5.
the pilot on his last breath couldn't be conscious enough (and have enough time) to fiddle with waypoints so that it goes precisely around indenosian airspace, not to mention low-level flying above malaysian mainland which autopilot could not execute
we agree in basic points but not after going around Indonesia, for me it's much more probable that he had some goal and here is my theory that explains how and why
Normally speculation is not encouraged, but there is very little to on with MH370, so it's somewhat unavoidable.
Unfortunately though, the discussion has seemed to veered towards baseless wild conspiracy theories. The patent thing in particular is just silly, and had been debunked months ago.
So I'm considering shutting down this thread, and reverting back to full Posting Guidelines requirements for the MH370 forum.
Jason
Senior Member
Don't you think at this point Malaysia would've definitely sent up their military jets to investigate what was happening, instead of twiddling their thumbs. Is it possible the pilot prepared for this scenario, but Malaysian military didn't even notice the turn around, decreased altitude, and loss of communication. If the Malaysian government, saw this happening shouldn't there be recorded communications from them to flight 370?
Point well taken, I honestly am embarrassed to admit this but I didn't bother reading the article in it's entirety. I remembered hearing this story in the weeks that followed the disappearance of flight 370 so thought it was true but just a coincidence. Obviously I'm wrong, and I stand corrected.
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
maybe they saw it but it was too late for interception, also it was a weekend night and the plane went along thai border leaving Malaysia, if it was nearing KL they could possibly react...
btw I don't know if I have posted this before but this is a very interesting parallel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961
hijackers diverting the plane from course, seeking asylum in Australia, crashing in Indian Ocean near some island because of fuel exhaustion, just too many parallels no?!
also the article is written on 17th Feb giving Captain (or someone else) idea the hijack actually COULD work?!
btw I don't know if I have posted this before but this is a very interesting parallel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961
hijackers diverting the plane from course, seeking asylum in Australia, crashing in Indian Ocean near some island because of fuel exhaustion, just too many parallels no?!
also the article is written on 17th Feb giving Captain (or someone else) idea the hijack actually COULD work?!
TEEJ
Senior Member.
Alan Schuster-Bruce from Inmarsat did consider that theory. See from 02:40.
From
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXz7x6yyT-wP-LGJcclczbg/videos
NewAmericanCenturySucks
Member
I started out with cover-up as the LEAST plausible option. It became my leading theory only after the ATSB's bogus releases of March 28 / April 1 that moved the search 2,500km NE. And the CONFIDENT statements - from Aussie reps from the PM on down to the search team - enhanced by US military search authorities - which KEPT it in the wrong place for 8 weeks.
Read the report you linked us to. They were led to the area by analysis of what the plane did while still on Malaysian radar (altitude and heading). STRICTLY. The pings are these days being BLAMED for drawing the search off target, but this is merely big lie #3.
Big lie #1 was the stated rationale for moving the search site. You saw for yourself the speeds this theory forced. Ridiculously implausible - and rejected flatly by outside experts (Duncan Steel, et al).
Big lie #2 was intimating - for 8 weeks - that pings from the ship's bar fridge were from MH370's FDR. The outside experts took one look at the frequencies, and flatly rejected their authenticity.
You swing your Occam's Razor, and come up with a specTACular array of abject incompetence and curious coincidence. I swing mine, and come up with a stall for time by competent people following orders.
I am keen, however, to have my grasp of the search history improved, such that it meets your criteria for speculating on this thread. Can you answer the 5 questions I pose (top of p. 29, this thread)? They all pertain to fig.4, p.6 of the ATSB report just issued.
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
because he was obviously p*ssed off with situation in his country and wanted to get his revenge on the government
I mean we have Snowden who did similar living in a much better country, so why something like that couldn't happen in Malaysia where situation is 1000 times worse.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
(Skipping to):
I am sorry, but I will just stop you there. NO. As an airline pilot for a few decades, no. Sorry, but the remainder of your ideas are equally implausible, for so many reasons...and it would be inappropriate to clutter this (overly long already) thread.
BombDr
Senior Member.
Well then you have to specify what systems you perceive to have failed...?
The US is not responsible for the primary and secondary radars in that part of the world.
The US satellites are not covering the whole globe 24hrs a day.
Every single thing in the air is not pinging on a screen in the Pentagon.
Please explain the failure that you perceive and what system has been stood-down / denied / re-tasked / covered-up that might support your assertion.
jonnyH
Senior Member.
Even if that is true, that does not meet the criteria required for a asylum claim to be successful.
http://www.asylumexplained.asrc.org.au/?page_id=316
Being frustrated and upset by your country's political situation is not enough. You need to demonstrate a well founded fear of persecution and point 9. above becomes a bit of an obstacle if you hijack a plane to get there.
9 Considerations to decide if you are a Refugee
To be a refugee who is given protection, ALL of the things below must apply personally to you and your situation. Please click on each of the headings below to find out more information about each part of the test which is applied in Australia to decide if someone is a refugee.
1. I am outside my home country
2. I am afraid to go home
3. I am afraid that if I go home I will face persecution
4. I am afraid that I will be persecuted
5. My fear of persecution is well founded
6. I cannot safely relocate to another part of my home country
7. The government in my home country cannot protect me
8. I do not have a right to go and live in a safe third country
9. I have not committed a war crime or any other serious crime
I'm still not convinced that Malaysia is as bad as you think. It's not perfect, but do a google search for "Malaysian refugees" and you get stuff like this about people taking refuge in Malaysia:
http://www.unhcr.org.my/About_Us-@-UNHCR_in_Malaysia.aspx
As for Snowden, the rules above relate to Oz but as they are based on the Refugee Convention they are fairly universal, Russia will likely use a similar formula and don't consider him to have committed a crime. They see it that he will be imprisoned in the US for being a whislteblower, which meets the criteria.During the 1970s and 1980s, UNHCR assisted the Malaysian Government in receiving and locally settling over 50,000 Filipino Muslims from Mindanao who fled to Sabah. UNHCR also supported the Malaysian Government in locally settling several thousand Muslim Chams from Cambodia in the 1980s and several hundred Bosnian refugees in the 1990s.
BombDr
Senior Member.
How about this guy?:
Or this?
Ian Hislop explaining capital punishment to an idiot politician...
What makes an Australian PM different?
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Jason
Senior Member
Yeah but him being a pilot and all wouldn't it have been easier to just fly to AU on vacation and seek asylum that way instead of risking the lives of 239 ppl including himself. Seems like an unnecessary risk
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
This made me think of something....the GPS network was originally devised by the U.S. military (**), but now is (somewhat) "open-sourced" to be used by virtually anyone on the planet.
(** Interesting side-bar. It was the launch of the Soviet satellite "Sputnik", and the efforts of some "nerds" who wanted to learn more about it...they devised a way to use the Doppler Effect of its radio transmission "beeps", and eventually calculated its orbital path. THEN, the pre-DARPA...aka, a faction of the U.S. military...approached them, and asked if this could be done in reverse. The thinking was, submarines at sea needed to know exactly where they were, in the case they had to launch missiles. Eventually, the concept of GPS was born....late 1950s. There was a full and fascinating story on NPR the other day....can't find the link, sorry).
GPS technology is just about, now, commonplace in most commercial airliners. But, is one-way..."receive-only".
The future (circa 2020-2025?) of Air Traffic Control technology will need to utilize GPS technology, and there will be a need to have "two-way" ability.
This is the concept of "Free Flight", and it will evolve over the upcoming decades. Likely in ways that we have yet to predict, as technological advances continue.
I think this might be a "cap" here, or at least a "split" point, because I realize it is so off-topic. Not even debunkable.....
ETA...a link to "GuyRaz" related to my narrative, above, about the Sputnik contribution to the development of modern GPS:
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ConspiracyAtheist
Member
Of the theories posted after mine, the issues I have are as follows: Regarding asylum, I see no evidence or even suggestion of circumstance that would lead one to believe that Zaharie wanted or needed asylum. For all intents and purposes, he had a very good life on the surface. Barring his emotional state of mind and the like, he was very well off in terms of wealth and respect. He had a gorgeous ex-wife or whatever that situation was, and children whom he loved dearly. He loved his job and was a dedicated pilot. I really see no valid reason why he would want to escape to australia--makes no sense.
As for the "meteorite" theory--just one aside before I attack that argument. A meteorite is space debris that actually makes contact with the earth's surface. What you meant to say was a "meteoroid," but that's besides the point. I think this theory contradicts a lot of what we know to be true regarding MH370. I won't admit to knowing much about space debris falling into earth, but I do know that they travel at extremely high speeds, and are usually incredibly dense. With the amount of force generated, I would highly doubt that a plane even as robust as a 777 would survive for too much longer after being struck with one of those bad boys.
In response to Jason, no I do not think that Malaysia would have sent up jets in my scenario--for the same exact reason that they didn't--because they were tremendously incompetent that night. They were not ready for something like this, were probably very confused, and more than likely were of the mindset that doing nothing would free them from any sort of legal or political negligence. This is assuming that they were even aware what was going on in real time, which I have a hard time believing they were. I think that although they knew this plane was not where it was supposed to be, they did not know exactly where it was, and had rather been safe than sorry (or just lazy).
In response to NewAmericanCenturySucks, I think you are jumping the gun with putting all of this nefarious blame on these countries. I'm not sure how you can accuse Malaysia, Australia, etc. of what you're accusing them of without knowing everything that they know. You must realize that you're making an incredible number of assumptions in your accusations and "questions" that you keep "challenging" us and them to answer. To be quite frank, I'm not even sure I fully follow what it is exactly that you're arguing. You seem almost John Nash-esque, from "A Beautiful Mind."
Finally, I'd like to add one thing. I know that my theory is centered around Zaharie conducting this horrific act, but to be honest in my heart of hearts it was very hard to do so. From everything I have read, it really seems that he was a very humble and dedicated man with a high moral code. I don't think he is an inherently evil person..But you never know where the tipping point is when you're dealing with human beings. And sadly enough, if he did happen to reach his tipping point, it just so happened that he was in a position to do an enormous amount of harm simply by virtue of the job he had.
As for the "meteorite" theory--just one aside before I attack that argument. A meteorite is space debris that actually makes contact with the earth's surface. What you meant to say was a "meteoroid," but that's besides the point. I think this theory contradicts a lot of what we know to be true regarding MH370. I won't admit to knowing much about space debris falling into earth, but I do know that they travel at extremely high speeds, and are usually incredibly dense. With the amount of force generated, I would highly doubt that a plane even as robust as a 777 would survive for too much longer after being struck with one of those bad boys.
In response to Jason, no I do not think that Malaysia would have sent up jets in my scenario--for the same exact reason that they didn't--because they were tremendously incompetent that night. They were not ready for something like this, were probably very confused, and more than likely were of the mindset that doing nothing would free them from any sort of legal or political negligence. This is assuming that they were even aware what was going on in real time, which I have a hard time believing they were. I think that although they knew this plane was not where it was supposed to be, they did not know exactly where it was, and had rather been safe than sorry (or just lazy).
In response to NewAmericanCenturySucks, I think you are jumping the gun with putting all of this nefarious blame on these countries. I'm not sure how you can accuse Malaysia, Australia, etc. of what you're accusing them of without knowing everything that they know. You must realize that you're making an incredible number of assumptions in your accusations and "questions" that you keep "challenging" us and them to answer. To be quite frank, I'm not even sure I fully follow what it is exactly that you're arguing. You seem almost John Nash-esque, from "A Beautiful Mind."
Finally, I'd like to add one thing. I know that my theory is centered around Zaharie conducting this horrific act, but to be honest in my heart of hearts it was very hard to do so. From everything I have read, it really seems that he was a very humble and dedicated man with a high moral code. I don't think he is an inherently evil person..But you never know where the tipping point is when you're dealing with human beings. And sadly enough, if he did happen to reach his tipping point, it just so happened that he was in a position to do an enormous amount of harm simply by virtue of the job he had.
TWCobra
Senior Member.
I agree. NACS, I to am struggling to find the relevance of your questions. This situation is unprecedented and all the applicable agencies have been struggling since day 1 to make sense of it.
I have been around long enough to appreciate the value of the saying, "when faced with the choice between a conspiracy and "$&@¥ up", go with the "$&@¥ up" every time". I believe this holds true in this case.
Yesterday I flew with a first officer who used to work in the satellite industry and knew quite a lot about the details of the Inmarsat data. He expressed doubts over the data by saying that the frequency discrimination required to make some of the measurements was akin to requiring the autoflight system on our aircraft to hold our altitude to with 3 mm. His knowledge of the system caused him to severely doubt that was possible.
The investigating team have been required to make the data from a communications system into a navigation system. They are jury rigging this as they go along and have been forced to go back, look at data from inaccurate sources such as the Malaysian Primary radars and adjust their conclusions accordingly.
I see absolutely no evidence of a conspiracy. I see an investigation without a blueprint to work from and that is why it has made errors. The errors have been made in good faith.
Your assumptions about some nefarious role by the US ,IMHO, reveal a bias that you should examine.
I have been around long enough to appreciate the value of the saying, "when faced with the choice between a conspiracy and "$&@¥ up", go with the "$&@¥ up" every time". I believe this holds true in this case.
Yesterday I flew with a first officer who used to work in the satellite industry and knew quite a lot about the details of the Inmarsat data. He expressed doubts over the data by saying that the frequency discrimination required to make some of the measurements was akin to requiring the autoflight system on our aircraft to hold our altitude to with 3 mm. His knowledge of the system caused him to severely doubt that was possible.
The investigating team have been required to make the data from a communications system into a navigation system. They are jury rigging this as they go along and have been forced to go back, look at data from inaccurate sources such as the Malaysian Primary radars and adjust their conclusions accordingly.
I see absolutely no evidence of a conspiracy. I see an investigation without a blueprint to work from and that is why it has made errors. The errors have been made in good faith.
Your assumptions about some nefarious role by the US ,IMHO, reveal a bias that you should examine.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
WELL SAID!!!
And, this simple fact (errors that might be made by individuals, in a situation when there is not direct observation) AND the Human propensity to always deflect "blame"...these are (just some of) the factors that lead to a multitude of "Conspiracy Theories" later..........
Later shown to just be a pebble packed in one of the parachutes. The meteorite hypothesis is highly unlikely, and not backed by any evidence.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Yes. Intersting.
HOWEVER...on all modern airliners there are periodic (several times per minute) ACARS data air-to-ground transmission links. ANY "Loss of Presasurization" event WOULD have have been recorded, and down-linked.
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
well Filipinos are even worse but that doesn't make Malaysia good
you do make some valid points but US would rather see Snowden hijacking 10 planes one by one than doing what he has done, which is basically a treason
if Captain succeeded in his mission, the australian government would be under pressure and they couldn't let him back in Malaysia because he would probably face a death penalty, also a "peaceful" hijack is not heavy crime for me, yes it's not professional and will do a harm to the company but it's not what people make it to be, since he was a Captain it was more of a divert than a hijack, it's like a bus driver straying to another city having to finish his own business, only on a much larger scale
umm, the point was in catching media attention, going to Australia on vacation and saying his government s*cks would hardly make the headlines
Snowden had all of that and even greater risk of getting caught (US intelligence is, well, a bit higher on the rankings than malaysian military/AF)
People sometimes just do a hero moments, it wouldn't be the first nor the last time in human history, some succeed, some not.
men with high moral code don't kill 200 people out of nowhere, and you contradict yourself here quite a bit, first you write :
"For all intents and purposes, he had a very good life on the surface. Barring his emotional state of mind and the like, he was very well off in terms of wealth and respect. He had a gorgeous ex-wife or whatever that situation was, and children whom he loved dearly. He loved his job and was a dedicated pilot. I really see no valid reason why he would want to escape to australia--makes no sense."
then :
"But you never know where the tipping point is when you're dealing with human beings. And sadly enough, if he did happen to reach his tipping point, it just so happened that he was in a position to do an enormous amount of harm simply by virtue of the job he had."
Sorry but someone hating the government would rather go and try to do them some harm than just go and kill himself and another 200 people. I don't exclude that possibility at all but diverting somewhere else is just much more probable for me.
completely agree here, mocking the military/AF was probably one of the goals and he knew their state and readiness, especially on a weekend night
exactly, the ACARS was turned off first and only then "something happened"
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