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  1. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    They very need to show damage by missile from S (Snizhne) as missile from Z (Zarochenskoe) so AA used this card - old missile with another speed, guidance etc. Also S position far then Z position so old missile can dont have range (need to check it).
    AA just lied again, nothing new!
     
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  3. In an interview on Dutch national television (aired yesterday night), chairman of the Dutch Safety Board (DSB), Tjibbe Joustra, said that "the Russians backed up". Chairman of Almaz-Antey, Novikov, was a member of the delegation of the Russian Federation that joined the meetings of DSB. These meetings were held three times, each of them lasting 3 days.

    During the second meeting Novikov did a presentation in which he explained that MH17 was downed by a 9N314M warhead. During the third meeting however, the Russians stated that the presentation from the second meeting should be seen as just an "example" of how the downing could have taken place.

    Joustra believes, looking back at how things went during these meetings, that it was Moscow that blew the whistle.

    Article is in Dutch: http://nos.nl/artikel/2062953-russen-maakten-terugtrekkende-bewegingen.html

    Translation by Google:

     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  4. Ole

    Ole Member

    The roof panels that weren't recovered don't seem to match the simulation either. The blue impacts in the simulation show a 40kg warhead that allegedly gave a poorer match to the real damage pattern. It would be interesting to know by what criteria they judged the quality of the match and if they took the roof panels into account.

    simul_fail.
     
  5. Unit0

    Unit0 New Member

    Hold your horses. The AA is not necessary to insist on Z. Any angle bigger than ~30 mean Buk was on ukraine side. The sense of the AA test is that they model the angle of 75 degrees looks much more realistic. It is based on rigth side of IL86 cabin with many outputs holes, that is neceserry for small angles like 20.
     
  6. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    Im looking on Almaz-Antey report and found
    ZAROCHENSKOE launch site
    c018a11f713855598620578c64f00b20.
    Almaz-Antey was so prejudiced!
    1. AA calculated 75 degree azimuth.
    2. Azimuth 75 degree directed to Zarochenskoe launch site.
    3. Zarochenskoe blame Ukraine
    4. Damage pattern have 75 degree azimuth and 20 degree elevation.
    5. Missile used - old outdated missile 9M38 which Russia dont have by AA info.
    6. 9M38 missile blame Ukraine.
    7. 9M38 missile have lesser range then 9M38M1 missile from previous report.
    8. New launch site (for 9M38 missile) moved even far from MH17 strike point (for blame Ukraine even better).
    9. 9M38 missile cannot have SAME ELEVATION 20 degree on range same or even more then 9M38M1 from previous report!
    ff1126fa0b17c990cd2441997fa8af5f.
    Ooops... When double blame converting in double lie.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  7. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    Almaz-Antey follow mine calculation.
    Here is fragment distribution by speed and angles:
    [​IMG]
    and
    Latest Almaz-Antey report (they still trying to show lancet so give wrong speed), look on disclosure angles:
    47b4765387e0adbedefe9f4fa7163312.
    It how science work.
    Later i will show how they wrong with speed of pellets.
     
  8. Unit0

    Unit0 New Member

    Don't hurry, young padawan.

    The AA experts dont have dirrect access to MH17 wreks. They cant "calculate" angle exectly. Even in future they will have possibility to explore wreks, will be hard to make guess for angle less then +/- 5 degrees.

    The task for investigation was a compare of the lunch point near Z (known BUK position) and near S. The conclusion about Z as much realistic lunch point (based on photo of wreks ) is "a calculated lunch point" only for same public.

    And as I said, any angles more 30 (west to Savur-Mohyla) is acceptable for AA and Russia.

    4dfb9aceb7795aaafae14846e383c4f6.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    Not sure why you calling me "young padawan"? Is it personal attack on me which mean im younger or not enough qualified? Then im will be glad to hear your status - when you join Jedi Council and who is your teacher?
    AA experts and NLR build detonation point calculation based on damage pattern provided by DSB. Both organisations have access to photos with entry holes and study it.
    Im dont have access to MH17 debris but build 3d model with detonation point, elevation and azimuth of missile close to NLR simulation.
    Also im debunked AA lie about fragments distribution in both cause - missile from Z and missile from S.
    Map which you linked dont show Z or S launch site. Can you mark it please? May be area of possible launch?
    What wrong with Saur-Mohila? Why you talking about this place?
    What is angle 30 what you reffering?
    Alot of questions because you dont provide any info but proclaim only impeachment for wide know data.
     
  10. Unit0

    Unit0 New Member

    I teach in Moscow Institute of Aviation. The Almaz building stay across a street. My specialisation is space rockets. My experience is that you need to with great respect to the opinion of professionals in they area, еven if you are from the aerospace industry too.

    You want to hit me using the term 3D model? I've seen lots of wrong models. Enough to take the time before to talk about AA, they are "lying". If you have differences with your model and AA then сheck your model. Again and again.

    Saur-Mohila is point of hard figthing in July 2014. East to Saur-Mohila was taked under control DNR forces 16 July 2015. Few next weaks ukranian army try to take Saur-Mohila attacking from west. Saur-Mohila (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savur-Mohyla) is located 2-3 km to west to Stepanivka, that you can find at fig.63 from report.
     
  11. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    Sorry but when Moscow Institute of Aviation start to teach Jedi Masters which can call me "young padawan"?
    You forgot about place where you can give commands or not. Here is forum for discussions. Everyone can build their model. If you have answers or corrections - shoot it. Leave Almaz-Antey with their lie outside please, if cannot confirm it with facts.
    And what? Why you talking about Saur-Mohila in MH17 thread? We dont discussing about Ukrainian-Separatists war.
     
  12. Unit0

    Unit0 New Member

    Restraint and thoroughness of assessments comes with experience.

    Can I talk about investigation of MH17 crush? My guess that 10 deegrees (20 from report and Saur-Mohila direction) is very thin edge to ukranian guild that even resonable arguments of AA will be considered impartially. Not now.
     
  13. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    In English speaking countries "young Padwan" is often used as a term to address someone who is obviously on the right path but needs more experience.

    It is a bit of a friendly joke, and utterly irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
     
  14. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    What launch point you talking about on map?
     
  15. Unit0

    Unit0 New Member

    [​IMG]
    The war memorial stay on Saur-Mohila peak. The forest to west and further was a zone controlled by Ukranian army.
     
  16. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    Thank you!
    What missile Ukraine used for shot down MH17 from this launch site?
     
  17. Unit0

    Unit0 New Member

    The Ukranian Buk may be located at any position to west from war memorial on Saur-Mohila.
     
  18. ad_2015

    ad_2015 Member

    Very well, but still what missile used for launch from Saur-Mohila or west?
    Where borders of possible launch from this area?
     
  19. vvalnik

    vvalnik New Member

    Saur-Mohila - a strategic height ( 277.9 m)
    From its peak visible area with a radius of 30-40 kilometers
    In good weather, with Saur-Mohila seen Azov Sea, located 90 km to the south

    In July 2014 Saur-Mohila was stronghold of the pro-russian rebels, and it is well exposed to fire all of the surrounding area
    Now tell us how Armed Forces of Ukraine dragged BUK to the foot of the Saur-Mohila and before the eyes of astonished pro-russian rebels shot by Boeing ) )
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
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  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This is an English language forum, please use English. If you want to have a private conversation in another language, then use the "Conversation" feature.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    • Like Like x 1
  22. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    However for those with English as a 2nd language I would happily have a post in both languages so I can check the finer meanings of translation - I am impressed by the details our ESOL correspondents are bringing to this debate - but sometimes the English doesn't quite make sense so perhaps if I could run the original language through google-translate I might get some better understanding of het meaning.
     
  23. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    The poster can do this too.