1. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Also...




    Read more at http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...ts-vaccinate-his-children#Tk2zj3vaqrxubqSo.99
     
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  2. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    A recent study on medical conspiracy theories shows that 1 in 5 believe doctors and the government are conspiring to hide a link between vaccines and autism. That doesn't necessarily mean these people do not vaccinate their children. Still, 20% is a lot larger than I would have guessed.



    graph1.
     
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  3. cosmic

    cosmic Active Member

  4. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

  5. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    So what is too blame for the increases in autism throughout the US? Why are so many kids autistic these days as compared to lets say 50 or 100yrs ago. Or is it simply that autism has always been this prevalent but Dr.'s couldn't identify it in the past or didn't fully understand it.

    OT, we were discussing virus mutations above and why they've been able to be successful. Do you think increased medical care and awareness has allowed these mutations in the human genome to thrive and succeed. I mean, mutations are either successful or they aren't, and a process of survival of the fittest should've eliminated autism, downs syndrome, and many other genetic mutations. Could medical care contribute to these mutations surviving in the human population or even becoming more prevalent?

    As humans, we always need to identify what the cause was, Right? Something has to be a factor in increased autism throughout the US and the world, so what is it. Its not a successful mutation, so what could be contributing to it, like dwarfism. They've been able to survive in todays world because people are more understanding and acceptable. But I would imagine that 100's of years ago,it would've been an entirely different story.
     
  6. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member



    @cosmic @Svartbjørn My Google-Fu is failing me. Have there been any follow up surveys with parents after their kids get sick from vaccine preventable diseases? Do any of these people regret not immunizing their children? Have they learned anything?

    I would think these people would make good vaccine advocates.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
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  7. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    My wife is from the Philippines and I think the best way to get information on this is to look at civilizations that don't get vaccinated. From normadic tribes in Africa to Asia.
     
  8. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    Its hard to find that kind of information to be honest with you, but when I did a simple search on google I was presented this below. Pretty amazing to be honest with you, and not what you would expect in the US. It seems sociodemographics play a role in it.

    Whats even more alarming is people are "self educating" themselves using the all mighty INTERNET.
     
  9. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member



    This seems to be the most common explanation. They are refining the diagnosis and the definition of the disease. Autism is not just one behavioural issue, it's a spectrum of disorders.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
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  10. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    This article discusses how people determined on their own accord that Amish people don't have many autistic children in their communities and since they don't vaccinate, it must mean vaccines cause autism. WRONG!!!
    http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus...ccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/
     
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  11. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    And then you come across articles like this which was written less than a month ago; http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26/unvaccinated-children-healthier/



    Where are they getting this information from? Are any of their studies peer reviewed? Its because of sites like VACTRUTH, in today's day and age where people research on their own via internet that is causing an increase in parents not vaccinating their kids.
     
  12. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/suppl_3/s253.long
    Vaccines against Lyme Disease: What Happened and What Lessons Can We Learn?



    Also.
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v439/n7076/full/439509a.html
     
  13. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    Where are these sites getting their information from?

    I'm not promoting this belief, but it honestly astounds me that there are so many studies for unvaccinated children, or what claim to be studies, for all we know they could be surveys, but for vaccinated its hard to find this information, Why?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  14. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    :mad:
     
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  15. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Wow, boo and shame!
     
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  16. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    IFLScience has been dedicating a bit of time lately to fighting anti-vacc bunk.
    http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

     
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  17. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    Because its being diagnosed rather than attributed to something else. I dont think there's really enough quantatative data to say that there are MORE cases of Autism. Over time medicine has gotten better, within the last 50 to 100 years we've started to unlock the human genome and understand how DNA works. We have the tools to study diseases better.. so we're able to better diagnose them. But let's also not take into account that there are Drs that make bad diagnoses (I think thats the plural of diagnosis) every day because there's still a LOT we dont know and understand.

    This is rather its similar to the "increase in natural disasters" over the last 50 to 100 years. There may be an increase, but the biggest reason why it feels like there are so many, is because the technology exists to move the information around the planet at the speed of light... or via a 10 or 15 second delay via satellite (*rimshot). The truth of the matter is NOBODY knows what causes Autism to trigger in some people and not in others. If it were a case of the vaccinations doing it then youd see families with multiple children all developing Autism at or near the same time. It happens, but its rare, and there's still no real credible evidence that Vaccines are the cause.
     
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  18. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

  19. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I don't think autism is a genetic mutation personally, so i'll just answer in regards to Down Syndrome.

    but even if everyone got tested and aborted that wouldn't reduce the occurrence much if at all. (I assume the same for Dwarfism). Families typically have non Down Syndrome children as well as Down Syndrome. If it is a genetic trait (exasperated by age of parent) the trait is still going to survive the gene pool because the vast majority have no idea they have it. They have 'typical' children, who go on to pass their genes to more children etc.
     
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  20. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    After looking at ASD for some time I think the mechanism for its expression is rather complex. I think there may be a recessive vulnerability in about 1% of the population. Triggers or factors that correlate with expression seem to be infection (in either gestating mother or infant), certain medication/s, pollution, age of mother and father, immune system insult, diet, etc. I compiled about (I think) 26 factors where some people feel there may exist a correlation.

     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
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  21. cosmic

    cosmic Active Member

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  22. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    Just skimming through the thread.

    I feel compelled to add myself to the list of persons who has received all the vaccinations required for school (1962 - 1975) as well as a few extras such as Shingles and Hepatitis.

    ,,, and there's nothing wrong with me,,, with me,,, with me...
     
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  23. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Also I often wonder if that, combined with having been breast-fed at the formative infant stages {>burp<} makes a significant difference in resistance to disease, and overall future health as an adult?
     
  24. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member


     
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  25. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Having read this survey and the article that quotes Andreas Bachmair (homeopaths are not doctors) they seem to rely on uncontrolled online surveys and responses to questionaires collected by an undescribed method. There is nothing scientific about what they doing and in some cases they seem to be comparing apples and Hondas and declaring the equivalent. If data collection relies on voluntary answers from the anti-vaccination adherents rather than random samples of the population at large then the results they desire are predetermined.
     
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  26. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    So could we attribute more mothers using formula vs breast milk as a "possibility" for increased autism. Or possibly C-sections. When the baby passes through the birth canal they pick up healthy bacteria that colonize in their intestines which help them develop their immune system. Maybe it could be a combination of the two, 1. increased C-sections, and 2. babies going straight to formula instead of using breast milk
     
  27. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Is autism linked to early immune system health or lack of?
     
  28. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    youre beating your head against a wall. you cant just say "autism" because what they are calling 'autism' today is a multitude of different things.
    and this thread is about vaccines and vaccines do not cause autism.
     
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  29. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    I was trying to ascertain why Jason made the statement he did as I did not see how it followed from the breast-feeding/immune system article.
    But offtopic, okay.
     
  30. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    Sorry for going OT
     
  31. Dan Wilson

    Dan Wilson Active Member

    Not necessarily. Mutations can help, hurt, or anything in-between. Evolution is not a process that strives toward perfection. Evolution if often okay with "good enough." Survival of the fittest is not a real term used by people who study evolution so that doesn't help the misconceptions. A better way to put it is a "struggle for existence." For example, someone genetically determined to develop parkinson's disease (you can even imagine this in a pre-civilized world) could still be "good enough" to pass on his/her genes to the next generation. Disadvantages can still be passed on as long as they don't prevent everyone who has that disadvantage from reporducing. Evolution also isn't very good at eliminating asymptomatic carriers of genetic disease.

    I don't understand how the authors of that page think they can associate things like asthma, dyslexia, and anxiety to vaccines. The logic makes no sense, the data does not specify sample size for each group, and it's already been pointed out that is relies on internet administered voluntary questionnaires which just screams bias. They also try to exaggerate their "data" by making the y-axis scale very tiny to give the appearance of big differences in the two groups.
    The fact of the matter is that children are certainly much better off getting vaccinated and we have seen examples of what happens when populations forego vaccination.

    http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...ak-centered-around-vaccine-skeptic-megachurch


    http://www.vaccinetimes.com/the-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-a-k-a-the-german-study/
     
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  32. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Eh, I love going off on tangents, don't worry about it. As long as you can drag yourself back to the main topic within a few posts I don't think it's a big issue. I sometimes think forum dictates can be a bit too low-tolerance on digressions, as they happen naturally when discussing any subject. But I see how it becomes 'noise' to the main topic so I understand the guideline.
     
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  33. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    mostly you were heading into a quagmire with 'what causes autism'. we would need dozens of threads for that topic! ; )
     
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  34. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member


    "Giggity Goo!" ( Couldn't resist. Maybe a vaccine when I was a child caused it? ;) )
    [​IMG]
     
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  35. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    ^
    Off topic. :)
     
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  36. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    Last edited: May 8, 2014
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  37. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Thought maybe this was a recent FB post you came across and wanted to be able to share the post on my FB, but that's okay.
     
  38. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    A buddy of mine posted it on FB, but I stripped the pic out because I dont have his permission to post stuff on his behalf. Not 100% sure where the actual post itself came from, but its stored on imgur.
     
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  39. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    Jenny McCarthy now claims she is not "anti-vaccine"; It's all been a great misunderstanding.

    I'm not exactly sure of her position regarding vaccines but it seems to be something like: she doesn't think they're bad, it's just that they're not good, one size does not fit all. Sage advice when shopping for underwear, dubious when used to determine the medical future of your children.

    In an effort to clear up the confusion about what the heck she's talking about, the Washington Post has published a compare an contrast of her recent quotes and compared them to things she has said about vaccines in the past. Here's a sample...



     
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  40. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    erg. 2008 2:45 "I'm not anti-vaccine BUT....." I like 4:40 "well I believe that parent's anecdotal information IS science based information" [comment removed: reason Politeness Policy]
     
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