Debunking Vaccine Myths

[Soulfly]

Also...

Judge Rules In Favour Of Father Who Wants To Vaccinate His Children

After a lengthy legal battle in Australia, a father has won the right to vaccinate his two children despite strong opposition by the mother.

The couple, who cannot be named for legal reasons, divorced several years ago. It is alleged that during the marriage, the father went along with the anti-vaccination views of the mother to "keep peace". Since their divorce, however, it became apparent to the father that the children were unable to engage in certain extracurricular activities because they had not been vaccinated, and some family members even refused to allow their children to socialize with these children because of this.

During the court case, the mother claimed that the children were likely to suffer damage from these vaccines due to particular allergies and therefore should not be vaccinated. A senior consultant in immunology, however, argued against this and told Justice Foster that the children do not have any allergies which would pose a danger if the children were vaccinated.

The mother also presented the judge with hundreds of documents which supposedly purported the dangers of vaccination, which Justice Foster said were mostly "comments, submissions, irrelevancies." They included the links between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism, despite the fact that the original study suggesting this has not only been withdrawn by the journal that published it many years ago, but has also been thoroughly debunked by the scientific and medical community.

Read more at http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...ts-vaccinate-his-children#Tk2zj3vaqrxubqSo.99

 

[Trigger Hippie]

A recent study on medical conspiracy theories shows that 1 in 5 believe doctors and the government are conspiring to hide a link between vaccines and autism. That doesn't necessarily mean these people do not vaccinate their children. Still, 20% is a lot larger than I would have guessed.

Medical Conspiracy Theories and Health Behaviors in the United States

Over the past 50 years, numerous conspiracy theories have materialized around public health matters such as water fluoridation, vaccines, cell phones, and alternative medicine. What remains unclear is whether the American public supports these conspiracy theories or whether they correlate with actual health behaviors.

JAMA Intern Med. Published online March 17, 2014. doi:10.1001/jamainternmed.2014.19

 

[cosmic]

Still, 20% is a lot larger than I would have guessed.

Same here. It's quite a challenge to repair the damage caused by anti-vaccination groups.

• How Public Health Advocates Are Trying To Reach Nonvaccinators
• Antivaccination Parents Dig In Heels Even after Receiving Medical Info
  

 

[Svartbjørn]

Found another good article from Global News, in Toronto:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1260577/vaccination-myths-debunked/

 

[Jason]

A recent study on medical conspiracy theories shows that 1 in 5 believe doctors and the government are conspiring to hide a link between vaccines and autism. That doesn't necessarily mean these people do not vaccinate their children. Still, 20% is a lot larger than I would have guessed.

Medical Conspiracy Theories and Health Behaviors in the United States

Over the past 50 years, numerous conspiracy theories have materialized around public health matters such as water fluoridation, vaccines, cell phones, and alternative medicine. What remains unclear is whether the American public supports these conspiracy theories or whether they correlate with actual health behaviors.

JAMA Intern Med. Published online March 17, 2014. doi:10.1001/jamainternmed.2014.19

View attachment 6791

So what is too blame for the increases in autism throughout the US? Why are so many kids autistic these days as compared to lets say 50 or 100yrs ago. Or is it simply that autism has always been this prevalent but Dr.'s couldn't identify it in the past or didn't fully understand it.

OT, we were discussing virus mutations above and why they've been able to be successful. Do you think increased medical care and awareness has allowed these mutations in the human genome to thrive and succeed. I mean, mutations are either successful or they aren't, and a process of survival of the fittest should've eliminated autism, downs syndrome, and many other genetic mutations. Could medical care contribute to these mutations surviving in the human population or even becoming more prevalent?

As humans, we always need to identify what the cause was, Right? Something has to be a factor in increased autism throughout the US and the world, so what is it. Its not a successful mutation, so what could be contributing to it, like dwarfism. They've been able to survive in todays world because people are more understanding and acceptable. But I would imagine that 100's of years ago,it would've been an entirely different story.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

In other words, giving the parents new information made them more opposed to vaccinating a future child.

@cosmic @Svartbjørn My Google-Fu is failing me. Have there been any follow up surveys with parents after their kids get sick from vaccine preventable diseases? Do any of these people regret not immunizing their children? Have they learned anything?

I would think these people would make good vaccine advocates.

 

[Jason]

In other words, giving the parents new information made them more opposed to vaccinating a future child.

@cosmic @Svartbjørn My Google-Fu is failing me.

Have there been any follow up surveys with parents after their kids get sick from vaccine preventable diseases? Do any of these people regret not immunizing their children?

My wife is from the Philippines and I think the best way to get information on this is to look at civilizations that don't get vaccinated. From normadic tribes in Africa to Asia.

 

[Jason]

In other words, giving the parents new information made them more opposed to vaccinating a future child.

@cosmic @Svartbjørn My Google-Fu is failing me.

Have there been any follow up surveys with parents after their kids get sick from vaccine preventable diseases? Do any of these people regret not immunizing their children?

Its hard to find that kind of information to be honest with you, but when I did a simple search on google I was presented this below. Pretty amazing to be honest with you, and not what you would expect in the US. It seems sociodemographics play a role in it.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/05/08/who-doesnt-vaccinate/#.U0WqsvRDtac
As compared with the undervaccinated children, the unvaccinated children were more likely to be male, to be white, to belong to households with higher income, to have a married mother with a college education, and to live with four or more other children. Other studies have shown that children who are unvaccinated are likely to belong to families that intentionally refuse vaccines, whereas children who are undervaccinated are likely to have missed some vaccinations because of factors related to the health care system or sociodemographic characteristics.

Whats even more alarming is people are "self educating" themselves using the all mighty INTERNET.

One last intriguing bit of data on vaccine refusers: They self-educate, and use the Internet to do it. To wit:

…parents of exempt children were more likely than parents of vaccinated children both to have providers who offered complementary or alternative health care and to obtain information from the Internet and groups opposed to aspects of immunization. The most frequent reason for nonvaccination, stated by 69% of the parents, was concern that the vaccine might cause harm.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

So what is too blame for the increases in autism throughout the US?

Much of the increase is believed to be due to increased awareness of the disorders, and suggests doctors are diagnosing autism more frequently, especially in children with milder problems.

In earlier decades, an autism diagnosis was confined to children with severe language, intellectual and social impairments and unusual, repetitious behaviours. But the definition has gradually expanded and now includes milder and related conditions that cause social and learning problems for children.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/u-s-an...the-rise-studies-show-1.1749020#ixzz2yQEx1X68

This seems to be the most common explanation. They are refining the diagnosis and the definition of the disease. Autism is not just one behavioural issue, it's a spectrum of disorders.

 

[Jason]

Much of the increase is believed to be due to increased awareness of the disorders, and suggests doctors are diagnosing autism more frequently, especially in children with milder problems.

In earlier decades, an autism diagnosis was confined to children with severe language, intellectual and social impairments and unusual, repetitious behaviours. But the definition has gradually expanded and now includes milder and related conditions that cause social and learning problems for children.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/u-s-an...the-rise-studies-show-1.1749020#ixzz2yQEx1X68

This seems to be the most common explanation.

This article discusses how people determined on their own accord that Amish people don't have many autistic children in their communities and since they don't vaccinate, it must mean vaccines cause autism. WRONG!!!
http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus...ccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/

Anecdotal Amish-don't-vaccinate claims disproved by fact-based study
By Seth Mnookin
Posted: June 28, 2011
The various vaccine manufactroversies that have spread in the wake of the Andrew Wakefield's bogus claims that the measles component of the MMR vaccine might be linked to autism are too numerous to unpack in one brief blog post. One of the most persistent has been the Amish fallacy: Most Amish don't vaccinate; there's almost no record of autism in Amish communities; ergo, vaccines cause autism. (This argument has also been used, time and time and time again, to illustrate the efficacy of a proposed vaccinated-versus-unvaccinated study.)

Not surprisingly, no part of the Amish fallacy — which has been kicking around for over a decade and gained new prominence and attention with this, purely anecdotal 2005 dispatch* — is true. Over the years, Ken Reibel at Autism News Beat has documented the problems with the Amish report, although the myth still persists.

 

[Jason]

And then you come across articles like this which was written less than a month ago; http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26/unvaccinated-children-healthier/

Studies Prove Without Doubt That Unvaccinated Children Are Far Healthier Than Their Vaccinated Peers
Christina England

February 26 2014

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A study from the 1990s has come to light, proving that compared to unvaccinated children, vaccinated children were more likely to suffer from asthma, eczema, ear infections, hyperactivity and many other chronic conditions. Furthermore, the study identified that there was a ten-fold increase in the incidence of tonsillitis in the children who were vaccinated, and a total lack tonsillectomy operations among the children who were unvaccinated.

In 1992, the Immunization Awareness Society (IAS) conducted a survey to examine the health of New Zealand's children. Unsurprisingly, the results of their study indicated that unvaccinated children were far healthier than vaccinated children.

Questionnaires were given out to IAS members, their friends and their associates asking various health questions. A total of 245 families returned their questionnaires, giving the researchers a total of 495 children surveyed. Of these children, 226 were vaccinated and 269 were unvaccinated.

Healthy Children and Ethics
The ages of the children ranged between the ages of two weeks – 46 years (obviously some friends were older with older children). Of the children studied, 273 were males and 216 were females. (Six children were unclassified.)

Sue Claridge, who reported on the study, wrote:

"Respondents were asked to provide the year of birth, gender, vaccinations received, whether or not the child suffered from a range of chronic conditions (asthma, eczema, ear infections/glue ear, recurring tonsillitis, hyperactivity, diabetes or epilepsy) whether or not he or she needed grommets, had had a tonsillectomy, or were shown to develop motor skills (walking, crawling, sitting-up etc.). Parents also provided information on breastfeeding and bottle feeding and when a child was weaned if breastfed."

During the study, another interesting fact emerged. Researchers discovered that 92 percent of the children requiring a tonsillectomy operation had received the measles vaccination, indicating that the vaccination for measles may have made some of the children more susceptible to tonsillitis.

The study also revealed that 81 of the families had both vaccinated and unvaccinated children. Many of these families had vaccinated their older children but had grown more reluctant to vaccinate their younger children, due to their growing concerns regarding vaccine safety.

Researchers concluded that:

"While this was a very limited study, particularly in terms of the numbers of unvaccinated children that were involved and the range of chronic conditions investigated, it provides solid scientific evidence in support of considerable anecdotal evidence that unvaccinated children are healthier that their vaccinated peers." [1]

Although governments from around the world have continually stated that studying vaccinated versus unvaccinated children would be unethical, the New Zealand researchers are not the only group of researchers to study comparisons.

Vaccinated Children 5 Times More Likely To Suffer From A Range Of Diseases
In September 2011, German researchers carrying out a longitudinal study surveyed a total of 8000 unvaccinated children from the ages of 0 –19. As with the New Zealand study, researchers collected their data by conducting a survey using questionnaires. [2]

Results showed that vaccinated children were up to five times more likely to suffer from a variety of diseases and disorders than unvaccinated children.

Their results were compared to another German study (KiGGS), which examined a larger sample group consisting of 17,461 participants between the ages of 0 –17.

Dr. Andreas Bachmair, a German classical homeopathic practitioner, responsible for collecting the results of the survey from the website vaccineinjury.info stated that:

"Asthma, hay fever and neurodermatitis are seen very frequently today. A recent German study with 17461 children between 0-17 years of age (KIGGS) showed that 4.7% of these children suffer from asthma, 10.7% of these children from hay fever and 13.2% from neurodermatitis. These numbers differ in western countries, i.e. the prevalence of asthma among children in the US is 6% whereas it is 14-16% in Australia (Australia's Health 2004, AIHW).

The prevalence of asthma among unvaccinated children in our study is around 2.5%, hay fever, 3%, and neurodermatitis, 7%. According to the KIGGS study more than 40% of children between the ages of 3 and 17 years were sensitized against at least one allergen tested (20 common allergens were tested) and 22.9% had an allergic disease. Although we did not perform a blood test, around 10% stated that their children had an allergy." [3]

(As this study is a longitudinal study, the number of children being studied has since risen to 13,222. To join the study, you can fill in the questionnaire provided by clicking on the link listed as the third reference at the end of this article.)

Although there were four cases of autism reported among unvaccinated children, Dr. Bachair reported that:

"Of these 4 children one tested very high for metals (mercury, aluminium, arsenic); in another case the mother was tested very high for mercury."

However, this number pales into insignificance when we compare it to the 1 in 88 children currently being reported as autistic by the CDC. [4]

Other Conditions Found To Be Almost Non-Existent In Unvaccinated Children
Dr. Andreas Bachmair continued his report by stating that their study found the prevalence of sinusitis, warts, skin problems and middle ear infections were also much lower in the unvaccinated children, as were the cases of diabetes and epilepsy.

He went on to say that the results demonstrated that the prevalence of many conditions in the unvaccinated children were also significantly lower. These were:

"Other disorders and diseases

As we included open questions in our survey we evaluated the prevalence (of the first 10,070 participants) of some other disorders and illnesses. Unvaccinated children show very low prevalences of the following disorders:

• Dyslexia: 0.21%
• Speech delay/articulation problems: 0.38%
• Sensory Processing disorder: 0.28%
• Anxiety: 0.25%
• Depression: 0.12%
• Bedwetting: 0.12%
• Celiac disease: 0.12%
• Gluten sensitivity: 0.41%
• GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease): 0.06%"

Dr. Bachair concluded his amazing and intuitive paper by adding a number of statements from parents, which I believe really added weight to her overall findings.

Conclusion
I find it amazing that despite mainstream media and leading government agencies stressing repeatedly that studies comparing vaccinated children to unvaccinated children cannot take place for ethical reasons, groups around the world are taking it upon themselves to do these studies anyway.

While surveys of this kind are often dismissed as being purely epidemiological and passed off as little more than stamp collecting, I believe that studies of this nature should not be dismissed out of hand. After all, many stamp collections contain just one stamp that is worth far more than its weight in gold.

These studies show without doubt that unvaccinated children are healthier than their vaccinated peers and, for this reason, these studies should be given careful consideration by all parents and professionals studying vaccination safety.

Where are they getting this information from? Are any of their studies peer reviewed? Its because of sites like VACTRUTH, in today's day and age where people research on their own via internet that is causing an increase in parents not vaccinating their kids.

 

[Soulfly]

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/suppl_3/s253.long
Vaccines against Lyme Disease: What Happened and What Lessons Can We Learn?

This article reviews events that led to the withdrawal of the only vaccine to prevent Lyme disease licensed in the United States. The primary issues that led to the vaccine's withdrawal appear to be a combination of vaccine safety concerns, sparked by a molecular mimicry hypothesis that suggested that the vaccine antigen, outer surface protein A, serves as an autoantigen and hence was arthritogenic; concerns raised by anti-vaccine groups regarding vaccine safety; vaccine cost; a difficult vaccination schedule and the potential need for boosters; class action lawsuits; uncertainty regarding risk of disease; and low public demand. This article reviews lessons learned from these events and proposes that future candidate Lyme disease vaccines are unlikely to be developed, tested, and used within the United States in the near future, thus leaving at-risk populations unprotected.

Also.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v439/n7076/full/439509a.html

Unfounded public fears place pressures on vaccine developers that go beyond reasonable safety considerations, as the search for an acceptable vaccine against Lyme disease may demonstrate.

 

[Jason]

Where are these sites getting their information from?

http://www.vaccineinjury.info/vacci...inated-children/survey-results-illnesses.html

I'm not promoting this belief, but it honestly astounds me that there are so many studies for unvaccinated children, or what claim to be studies, for all we know they could be surveys, but for vaccinated its hard to find this information, Why?

 

[Trigger Hippie]

Unfounded public fears place pressures on vaccine developers that go beyond reasonable safety considerations, as the search for an acceptable vaccine against Lyme disease may demonstrate.

 

[Pete Tar]

And then you come across articles like this which was written less than a month ago;

Wow, boo and shame!

 

[Soulfly]

IFLScience has been dedicating a bit of time lately to fighting anti-vacc bunk.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

In light of recent outbreaks of measles and other vaccine preventable illnesses, and the refusal of anti-vaccination advocates to acknowledge the problem, I thought it was past time for this post.

Dear parents,

You are being lied to. The people who claim to be acting in the best interests of your children are putting their health and even lives at risk.

They say that measles isn't a deadly disease.
But it is.

They say that chickenpox isn't that big of a deal.
But it can be.

They say that the flu isn't dangerous.
But it is.

They say that whooping cough isn't so bad for kids to get.
But it is.

They say that vaccines aren't that effective at preventing disease.
But 3 million children's lives are saved every year by vaccination, and 2 million die every year from vaccine-preventable illnesses.

Read more at http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied#8eFDDvhmXbmPiyBQ.99

 

[Svartbjørn]

So what is too blame for the increases in autism throughout the US? Why are so many kids autistic these days as compared to lets say 50 or 100yrs ago.

Because its being diagnosed rather than attributed to something else. I dont think there's really enough quantatative data to say that there are MORE cases of Autism. Over time medicine has gotten better, within the last 50 to 100 years we've started to unlock the human genome and understand how DNA works. We have the tools to study diseases better.. so we're able to better diagnose them. But let's also not take into account that there are Drs that make bad diagnoses (I think thats the plural of diagnosis) every day because there's still a LOT we dont know and understand.

This is rather its similar to the "increase in natural disasters" over the last 50 to 100 years. There may be an increase, but the biggest reason why it feels like there are so many, is because the technology exists to move the information around the planet at the speed of light... or via a 10 or 15 second delay via satellite (*rimshot). The truth of the matter is NOBODY knows what causes Autism to trigger in some people and not in others. If it were a case of the vaccinations doing it then youd see families with multiple children all developing Autism at or near the same time. It happens, but its rare, and there's still no real credible evidence that Vaccines are the cause.

 

[Pete Tar]

http://rbutr.com/rbutr/PluginServlet?redirect=2214477&fromPlugin=false

(Ha, already metabunked it seems, short memory)
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/va...up-to-500-more-disease-than-unvaccinated.618/

 

[deirdre]

OT, we were discussing virus mutations above and why they've been able to be successful. Do you think increased medical care and awareness has allowed these mutations in the human genome to thrive and succeed. I mean, mutations are either successful or they aren't, and a process of survival of the fittest should've eliminated autism, downs syndrome, and many other genetic mutations. Could medical care contribute to these mutations surviving in the human population or even becoming more prevalent?

I don't think autism is a genetic mutation personally, so i'll just answer in regards to Down Syndrome.

1968
Down syndrome is first detected using a form of amniocentesis that is later abandoned due to health risks. Amnios do not come into common use in the United States until safety trials are completed in 1976.

http://www.globaldownsyndrome.org/a...n-syndrome/research-and-medical-care-timeline

but even if everyone got tested and aborted that wouldn't reduce the occurrence much if at all. (I assume the same for Dwarfism). Families typically have non Down Syndrome children as well as Down Syndrome. If it is a genetic trait (exasperated by age of parent) the trait is still going to survive the gene pool because the vast majority have no idea they have it. They have 'typical' children, who go on to pass their genes to more children etc.

 

[George B]

After looking at ASD for some time I think the mechanism for its expression is rather complex. I think there may be a recessive vulnerability in about 1% of the population. Triggers or factors that correlate with expression seem to be infection (in either gestating mother or infant), certain medication/s, pollution, age of mother and father, immune system insult, diet, etc. I compiled about (I think) 26 factors where some people feel there may exist a correlation.

This is one of the goals I set out to accomplish a laundry list of possible causes, triggers, factors, influences, etc of Autism.

1) Electromagnetic pollution increasing in same way as autism . . .
2) Ionizing radiation . . .
3) Glutamate (free) poisoning . . . [youtube]

4) Inbreeding
5) Vitamin D deficiency . . . http://m.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/apr2009_The-Link-Between-Autism-and-Low-Levels-of-Vitamin-D_01.htm
6) Folic acid poisoning . . . genetic mutation called MTHF . . . http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFR
7) Fluoride . . . the drops for infants
8) GMO foods . . .
9) Chromosomal mirco-deletion . . . http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletion_(genetics)
10) More awareness = more diagnosis and change in parameters
11) Baron Cohen found that Autism is an extreme form of male dominant brain . . .
12) Pot smoking parents . . .
13) Constant state of tripping . . . Elevated urine levels of bufotenine in patients with autistic spectrum disorders and schizophrenia. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20150873/
14) Anti-depressants . . .
16) Thyroid level abnormalities pre-delivery
17) pitocin drips . . . So thyroid function and labor and delivery management are suspects as well . . . . http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/12/autism-labor-induction/2641391/
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/12/autism-linked-to-induced-or-augmented-labor-study-says/
18) The contaminates, adjuvants, and preservatives (mercury, etc) in vaccinations given to infants and children . . . http://m.southmilwaukeenow.com/blogs/communityblogs/211735051.html
http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/01/new-disclosures-on-vaccine-safety-data-link.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed: ageofautism (AGE OF AUTISM)
19) The age of the parents . . .
20) The genetic weaknesses of affected infants and children . . .
21) Bacterial and/or viral intestinal infection . . .
22) High fever and/or infection experienced by the expectant mother
23) the use of Tylenol or other non-aspirin drugs by mother/infant/child . . .
24) BPAs . . .
25) a high rate of autism and a high rate of recovery were observed. Examination of the data suggested that the rubella virus was the primary etiologic agent . . . http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01531116
26) Prenatal exposure to Lead, Mercury and exhaust air pollutants . . . http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/19/health/prenatal-pollution-autism

 

[cosmic]

Where are these sites getting their information from?

Their own horribly flawed survey. David Gorski examined it here: A survey administered by a German anti-vaccine homeopath backfires spectacularly

 

[jaydeehess]

Just skimming through the thread.

I feel compelled to add myself to the list of persons who has received all the vaccinations required for school (1962 - 1975) as well as a few extras such as Shingles and Hepatitis.

,,, and there's nothing wrong with me,,, with me,,, with me...

 

[WeedWhacker]

...who has received all the vaccinations required...

Also I often wonder if that, combined with having been breast-fed at the formative infant stages {>burp<} makes a significant difference in resistance to disease, and overall future health as an adult?

 

[Pete Tar]

A BYU-Harvard-Stanford research team has identified a molecule that is key to mothers' ability to pass along immunity to intestinal infections to their babies through breast milk.


The study highlights an amazing change that takes place in a mother's body when she begins producing breast milk. For years before her pregnancy, cells that produce antibodies against intestinal infections travel around her circulatory system as if it were a highway and regularly take an "off-ramp" to her intestine. There they stand ready to defend against infections such as cholera or rotavirus. But once she begins lactating, some of these same antibody-producing cells suddenly begin taking a different "off-ramp," so to speak, that leads to the mammary glands. That way, when her baby nurses, the antibodies go straight to his intestine and offer protection while he builds up his own immunity.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081026101713.htm

The interaction between mother and child postpartum plays an important role in the development of the infant's immune system. The immunological memory of the mother is passed to her infant via breast milk, and breast milk contains a variety of immune-modulating compounds causing immunological imprinting and programming (88).
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/9/1782S.full

 

[Bill]

Where are these sites getting their information from?

http://www.vaccineinjury.info/vacci...inated-children/survey-results-illnesses.html

I'm not promoting this belief, but it honestly astounds me that there are so many studies for unvaccinated children, or what claim to be studies, for all we know they could be surveys, but for vaccinated its hard to find this information, Why?

Having read this survey and the article that quotes Andreas Bachmair (homeopaths are not doctors) they seem to rely on uncontrolled online surveys and responses to questionaires collected by an undescribed method. There is nothing scientific about what they doing and in some cases they seem to be comparing apples and Hondas and declaring the equivalent. If data collection relies on voluntary answers from the anti-vaccination adherents rather than random samples of the population at large then the results they desire are predetermined.

 

[Jason]

A BYU-Harvard-Stanford research team has identified a molecule that is key to mothers' ability to pass along immunity to intestinal infections to their babies through breast milk.


The study highlights an amazing change that takes place in a mother's body when she begins producing breast milk. For years before her pregnancy, cells that produce antibodies against intestinal infections travel around her circulatory system as if it were a highway and regularly take an "off-ramp" to her intestine. There they stand ready to defend against infections such as cholera or rotavirus. But once she begins lactating, some of these same antibody-producing cells suddenly begin taking a different "off-ramp," so to speak, that leads to the mammary glands. That way, when her baby nurses, the antibodies go straight to his intestine and offer protection while he builds up his own immunity.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081026101713.htm

The interaction between mother and child postpartum plays an important role in the development of the infant's immune system. The immunological memory of the mother is passed to her infant via breast milk, and breast milk contains a variety of immune-modulating compounds causing immunological imprinting and programming (88).
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/9/1782S.full

So could we attribute more mothers using formula vs breast milk as a "possibility" for increased autism. Or possibly C-sections. When the baby passes through the birth canal they pick up healthy bacteria that colonize in their intestines which help them develop their immune system. Maybe it could be a combination of the two, 1. increased C-sections, and 2. babies going straight to formula instead of using breast milk

 

[Pete Tar]

using formula vs breast milk as a "possibility" for increased autism.

Is autism linked to early immune system health or lack of?

 

[deirdre]

Is autism linked to early immune system health or lack of?

youre beating your head against a wall. you cant just say "autism" because what they are calling 'autism' today is a multitude of different things.
and this thread is about vaccines and vaccines do not cause autism.

 

[Pete Tar]

I was trying to ascertain why Jason made the statement he did as I did not see how it followed from the breast-feeding/immune system article.
But offtopic, okay.

 

[Jason]

I was trying to ascertain why Jason made the statement he did as I did not see how it followed from the breast-feeding/immune system article.
But offtopic, okay.

Sorry for going OT

 

[Dan Wilson]

OT, we were discussing virus mutations above and why they've been able to be successful. Do you think increased medical care and awareness has allowed these mutations in the human genome to thrive and succeed. I mean, mutations are either successful or they aren't, and a process of survival of the fittest should've eliminated autism, downs syndrome, and many other genetic mutations. Could medical care contribute to these mutations surviving in the human population or even becoming more prevalent?

Not necessarily. Mutations can help, hurt, or anything in-between. Evolution is not a process that strives toward perfection. Evolution if often okay with "good enough." Survival of the fittest is not a real term used by people who study evolution so that doesn't help the misconceptions. A better way to put it is a "struggle for existence." For example, someone genetically determined to develop parkinson's disease (you can even imagine this in a pre-civilized world) could still be "good enough" to pass on his/her genes to the next generation. Disadvantages can still be passed on as long as they don't prevent everyone who has that disadvantage from reporducing. Evolution also isn't very good at eliminating asymptomatic carriers of genetic disease.

Where are these sites getting their information from?

I don't understand how the authors of that page think they can associate things like asthma, dyslexia, and anxiety to vaccines. The logic makes no sense, the data does not specify sample size for each group, and it's already been pointed out that is relies on internet administered voluntary questionnaires which just screams bias. They also try to exaggerate their "data" by making the y-axis scale very tiny to give the appearance of big differences in the two groups.
The fact of the matter is that children are certainly much better off getting vaccinated and we have seen examples of what happens when populations forego vaccination.

http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...ak-centered-around-vaccine-skeptic-megachurch

The latest outbreak of measles in the U.S.—a preventable disease that the Western Hemisphere eradicated decades ago, thanks to vaccines—has been traced to a megachurch in Texas. The church's senior pastor, Terri Pearsons, had previously criticized vaccines, USA Today reports.

The outbreak sickened 25 kids and adults. At least 12 of them weren't fully immunized. Others had no records of immunization. One ill child is 4 months old, too young to have received the measles vaccine. On average, among 1,000 kids who contract measles, one gets a serious brain infection called encephalitis and one or two kids die.

http://www.vaccinetimes.com/the-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-a-k-a-the-german-study/

Results -The study showed that for pertussis, measles, mumps, and/or rubella, unvaccinated children had on average triple the number of infections when compared with sufficiently vaccinated children. Specifically:

• Pertussis: Unvaccinated 15.8% – Vaccinated 2.3%
• Measles: Unvaccinated 15% – Vaccinated 5.2%
• Mumps: Unvaccinated 9.6% – Vaccinated 3.1%
• Rubella: Unvaccinated 17% – Vaccinated 6.8%

 

[Pete Tar]

Sorry for going OT

Eh, I love going off on tangents, don't worry about it. As long as you can drag yourself back to the main topic within a few posts I don't think it's a big issue. I sometimes think forum dictates can be a bit too low-tolerance on digressions, as they happen naturally when discussing any subject. But I see how it becomes 'noise' to the main topic so I understand the guideline.

 

[deirdre]

Sorry for going OT

mostly you were heading into a quagmire with 'what causes autism'. we would need dozens of threads for that topic! ; )

 

[WeedWhacker]

quagmire

"Giggity Goo!" ( Couldn't resist. Maybe a vaccine when I was a child caused it? )

 

[Pete Tar]

^
Off topic.

 

[Svartbjørn]

Came across this while surfing the web.

https://i.imgur.com/xJuOj3b.png

There ya go Soul.. dunno if its authentic or not, but its good none the less

 

[Soulfly]

Came across this while surfing the web.

https://i.imgur.com/xJuOj3b.png

There ya go Soul.. dunno if its authentic or not, but its good none the less

Thought maybe this was a recent FB post you came across and wanted to be able to share the post on my FB, but that's okay.

 

[Svartbjørn]

Thought maybe this was a recent FB post you came across and wanted to be able to share the post on my FB, but that's okay.

A buddy of mine posted it on FB, but I stripped the pic out because I dont have his permission to post stuff on his behalf. Not 100% sure where the actual post itself came from, but its stored on imgur.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

Jenny McCarthy now claims she is not "anti-vaccine"; It's all been a great misunderstanding.

I'm not exactly sure of her position regarding vaccines but it seems to be something like: she doesn't think they're bad, it's just that they're not good, one size does not fit all. Sage advice when shopping for underwear, dubious when used to determine the medical future of your children.

In an effort to clear up the confusion about what the heck she's talking about, the Washington Post has published a compare an contrast of her recent quotes and compared them to things she has said about vaccines in the past. Here's a sample...

Jenny McCarthy, writing in the Chicago Sun-Times on April 12, 2014:

I am not "anti-vaccine." This is not a change in my stance nor is it a new position that I have recently adopted. For years, I have repeatedly stated that I am, in fact, "pro-vaccine" and for years I have been wrongly branded as "anti-vaccine."

Jenny McCarthy to CNN on Sept. 26, 2007:

I mean moms and pregnant women are coming up to me on the street going, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And I don't know what to tell them, because I am surely not going to tell anyone to vaccinate. But if I had another child, there's no way in hell.

​

 

[deirdre]

Jenny McCarthy now claims she is not "anti-vaccine"; It's all been a great misunderstanding.

erg. 2008 2:45 "I'm not anti-vaccine BUT....." I like 4:40 "well I believe that parent's anecdotal information IS science based information" [comment removed: reason Politeness Policy]