1. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    I have to admit the single issue that galvanized my suspicion that some type of Chemtrail activity was possible was Congressional testimony and the US Code . . . sure human experimentation occurred . . . what made it stop?? Once behavior is uncovered, admitted to reluctantly, and laws changed in and around 1997 to prevent it in the future . . . should we believe this type of activity is over and done with from now on????
     
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  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    George Washington was a slave owner. Slavery was abolished. Once that behavior was changed by law in 1863 to prevent it in the future . . . should we believe this type of activity is over and done with from now on, or should we forever suspect that all Presidents keep slaves?
     
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think the 1997 change in the law was a specific response to something to do with the First Gulf War, possibly experimental vaccines being given to soldiers without their consent. Or possibly as a response to certain type of accusations surrounding Gulf War Illness.
     
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    For reference, here's the current law:

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ85/html/PLAW-105publ85.htm
     
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  7. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    It may have been part of the reasons; however, to establish the motivation of Congress requires an understanding of a legislative timeline, testimony, public comment etc . . . I do know there was much angry testimony regarding the Zinc Cadmium Sulfide injections around 1995 . . .
     
  8. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Old code . . . .

     
  9. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Much investigating was ongoing . . .

     
  10. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    That law does not make it illegal it just ensures that there is informed consent by any subject. I don't see how this could be related to chemtrails in any way.
     
  11. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Here is the Gulf War connection . . .

     
  12. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    So evidence supporting the lack of trust in the Government because of past covert human experimentation is not germane to a discussion about the suspicion the government may conduct said covert experimentation again . . . ??? Hmmmm . . .
     
  13. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Maybe not the US President but slavery is still alive and well throughout the world is it not? Including sex slavery in our own country . . . all quite illegal . . .
     
  14. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    ZCdS was "sprayed" from aircraft IIRC - not injected?
     
  15. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Whatever . . . it was dispersed as either an aerosol, a powder or a spray . . .
     
  16. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    I think the Gulf War is irrelevent as the military are exempted from that law.
     
  17. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    So what you are saying is that at a time a government starts spraying they also at a legaslative means to challenge it? That makes no sense.

    I am not denying the past btw, and I don't trust my own government in the UK.
     
  18. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    The military being exempt doesn't stop the information and hearings being a catalyst to a law change - even if the law change then does not affect the military.

    The 1990's saw a lot of US experimentation become public knowledge - not all of it was by or on the military - but the GW circumstances were part and parcel of that increasing knowledge.
     
  19. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    You are correct and I apologise. However I do have intimate knowledge of Gulf War Syndrome, especially as it affected us in the UK. I don't believe the US or UK government issued troops with medication as an experiment. I truly believe they did it in good faith. Please take into context I am in the UK but I get a little angry that GWS is brought into the chemtrail debate. I am part of a group that to this day fights for our rights as the UK don't recognise it.
     
  20. Mattnik

    Mattnik Moderator

  21. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    My post was in response to Micks post about the law change he felt was motivated somewhat because of the Gulf War testimony, but thanks for pointing out that military members are usually exempt from civilian protections . . .
     
  22. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    No, it is a recognition that in an enterprise as large, complex and segmented as the US Government the right hand may not know what the left hand is doing . . .
     
  23. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    I don't disagree . . .
     
  24. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Good intentions for actions does not guarantee good outcomes . . . the world is full of such history . . . it just makes it a bit easier to explain why you took the action in the first place. The potential/suspected causes of GWS was for the most part not covert in nature but extremely difficult to prove, much like the Agent Orange Program, Ranch Hand in Vietnam . . .
     
  25. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    By-the-way, just to clarify . . . I did not choose the Thread Title . . . it is Mick's creation . . . I would not have thrown in Chemtrails . . .
     
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry, but that's by far the most common connection made between this 1997 change in the law, and some nefarious intent.

    The law starts out making it illegal as the default position:



    It then provides some exceptions that require informed consent.

    I also don't see how it's related to chemtrails. However it (or the older version of the law) have been brought up as evidence of chemtrails literally thousands of times.

    https://www.google.com/search?q="public+law"+chemtrails

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  27. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    It is brought up because the chemtrais hoax never could stand on its own.

    Like the handicapped might need mobility aids, the double-amputeed chemtrails hoax has always had to free-ride on suspicion, distrust, jealousy and fear mongering, or any other issue which could attract someone. Just as Michael J. Murphy hitched onto weather modification, hatred for Bill Gates and Monsanto, everything possible is "connected" to give it a hand-up.
     
  28. Did you see this loophole?
    Section 1515 of Chapter 32 allows informed consent to be suspended by executive order during a period of national emergency.
    (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1515)



    And apparently we've been in a state of national emergency since about 1979:
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/10/22/president-obama-states-of-emergency/16851775/

    upload_2016-6-2_20-5-56.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2016
  29. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    And.........are you suggesting that one or more of the current SOE's negates the ban??

    If so which?

    If not....then ...OK...thanks for pointing it out.
     
  30. Sorry, I'm new at posting on this site. It was in response mostly to the post above about:
    ON THE USE OF HUMAN
    SUBJECTS FOR TESTING OF CHEMICAL OR BIOLOGICAL AGENTS.
    Basically, it's good-to-go at any time, as long as "participants" give informed consent. HOWEVER (due to this loophole), informed consent is not mandatory if we are classified as in a State of Emergency. And then I found out that, well, basically, we are perpetually in a SOE!
     
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    No, it's just that Title 50, Chapter 32 MAY be suspended during war or SOE, it is not automatically suspended, nor has it been suspended.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I guess that is why I see so many people post "I do not consent!" on Facebook? I wonder if they believe that would work.
     
  33. AumuA

    AumuA New Member

    I think that usually has to do with consenting to be searched. And it's true, that many police searches happen because people roll over and say ok under the pressure.
     
  34. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I thought police searches happened because someone may have committed a crime.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  35. qed

    qed Active Member

    https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-can-the-police-stop-and-frisk-you-on-the-street

    You guys live in utopia. In South Africa we are randomly stopped and searched.
    http://www.corruptionwatch.org.za/dont-be-intimidated-by-police-know-your-rights/
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  36. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I agree with you qed. Frankly the bellyaching I hear from my fellow Americans about how awful our country is I find ridiculous.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  37. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Do you not have stop and search in the US? I have been stopped a few times when walking to or from work in the early hours. All was down to my size and my appearance.

    The police have been known to step of the mark and target blacks etc.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  38. AumuA

    AumuA New Member

    Yeah, that they do. However, in the U.S. "someone may have committed a crime" is not probable cause for searching that person. I agree 100% that we do have it good here, and that we should be grateful for the rights we have, and we should understand what those rights are. I guess this is off topic?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  39. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    The are supposed to have reasonable suspicion



    I was in London in the early 80s. I had walked down embassy row with a friend and I had my camera and took a photo, which you apparently are not supposed to do. There was a policeman at the end of the street and he stopped me and asked me to give him my camera and I asked him why and he said he was going to take the film out. I said no, I had been to Stonehenge the day before and had my photos in there. So he said you can't take a photo here, I saw you on the camera, give me your film... I said no again. So he said something about calling someone, and turned around into his box to make the call and we ran around the corner and left. :rolleyes:
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  40. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    There are strange by-laws in London about what buildings you can and can't photograph, most embassies, most government depart offices are off limits, so strangely are the houses of parliament (and Portcullis house next door) and even Buckingham Palace! (although the last two are rarely enforced, musn't offend the tourists, we need their mullah :) ) Weirdest one is the MI6 building, people have been stopped taking photographs of it, even AFTER it had featured in a couple on Bond film and several other films and popular TV dramas (like Spooks)
     
  41. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    Well common sense never does apply to most bureaucracies. Or prisons. If you are in a UK prison, they won't let you wear say a pair of Army boots cos the toecaps are reinforced, but if the prison you are in has you doing almost ANY type of manual work you will be issued with steel toecapped safety boots which you are meant to wear back to your cell.
    Or you can find a D Cat (open ) prison like HMP Leyhill where if you are in the music group you are not allowed access to a screwdriver and a spanner or pair of pliers under supervision of the outside music teacher to tighten the nuts on an amp or a strat copy ( for security reasons) but if you are in farms and gardens. you will be wandering around with an AXE on your shoulder and no-one bats an eyelid.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1