1. Moses3D

    Moses3D New Member

    After reading the checklist I'm not so sure it's Alzheimer's, although certainly some points apply (they apply for me from time to time too). I do now agree that the physician is the way to go. He's sort of an old school person, and although I have no way of confirming it, he may have grown up thinking that mental illness is a sign of weakness. I do know he certainly doesn't understand it and there's a good chance that he thinks only "crazy" people see psychiatrists/psychologist.
     
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  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    certainly for the "sound" thing anyway. i cant remember if you are the one that mentioned 'he can hear the HAARP waves' or not. My mom has this constant low hum/ringing... she says its hard to explain. i forget now what she said it is. she still has it so i'm not sure there is a cure but her physician does go in and irrigate? her ears a couple times a year.

    Even if he can get a physical explanation for that one part it might help him be more open to explanations besides the government or his ex-girlfriends. Although an ex girlfriend executing a plan to drive you crazy is not so far out of the realm of possibility, depends on how big a jerk he was to her :)
     
  3. Moses3D

    Moses3D New Member

    He was a believer in HAARP, but he says he hears what he calls "ravon" (maybe an acronym, I'm not really sure) waves emanating from wireless routers. Actually it's quite interesting since he really can't hear a thing without his hearing aids, which he doesn't wear anymore. I don't remember if he said what it sounded like, maybe a low hum or something similar. Sounds like tinnitus to me. I don't know what the cure is or even if there is one, but your right in that a physical explanation would really help. He does seem to be experiencing insomnia as well, personally I think that may be a productive subject to pursue.

    Now I wouldn't know anything about that *ahem* :)
     
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  4. I think this is way many people will refuse to accept clear evidence that refutes the conspiracy theory. They don't want to admit their critics were right in their mocking and ridicule.
     
  5. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    My 83yo father is still visiting online "miracle herbal cures" for his diabetes, heart, and joint problems.
    I can't get him to stop, he is stubborn.
    I tell him that I have investigated many of these ideas and websites....but he still believes these sites "that Big Pharma is hiding secret information"......and that "all natural cures" are almost as important as what the conventional doctors say/recommend.
    He has ordered bottles and bottles of herbal fixes, and per the usual, he has received (and paid-for) many more bottles than he can possibly use in a monthly period.
    I tell him it's likely a scam, and that he is being "up-sold".
    He sees the unused bottles stock-piled in a cabinet.....but refuses to believe he might have succumbed to a sales tactic.
    His pride ?

    I've told him.......besides listening to what these products claim as benefits.....that he should also look (search google) at their possible ineffectiveness and over-hyped claims. I told him, search, "(product x) does not work", "scam", "ineffective".....along with his searches of a particular product benefit.
    Plus, he is on a regiment of heart medications, and needs to research drug interactions, if supplements are used.
    His doctors won't stop him from supplements, but they are not so keen on recommending them....if he simply eats a well-balanced diet of fresh fruits, vegies, and other high vitamin and protien fresh foods.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  6. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    (this will be a rant of sorts, because of my frustration)

    It's very frustrating, when you care about someone, but they continue to believe "what the internet says" over their doctor's and family's.... logical science-based health recommendations.

    I try to understand an elderly man's attempt to prolong his life (my 83yo father). He has a rudimentary understanding of the internet, so he becomes "the perfect target" for hyped "natural cures" that he finds on the net.
    He has the beginning signs of dementia and possibly Alzheimer syndrome.....but he still functions at normal day-to-day living......so far.

    The internet web can be a terrible resource for naive people like my elderly father. Every week, he "finds" (googles) miracle-y assured cures for his health problems.
    Diabetes
    Dementia
    Joint Pain
    Heart issues
    Prostate problems.

    His reactions to "pharmaceutical" treatment is beginning to sway away from 'the medical establishment' because he can so easily click on 'alternative treatments'.....that science or gov't may be hiding (according to the web sites he visits).

    He's falling into that rabbit hole, because of flashy supplement adverts easily found on Google.
    He is replacing his doctor's meds with these "natural cures". He has refused to take meds prescribed by doctors. (except for his heart meds)

    I very much try to understand his deteriorating health issues, and if I was in his shoes....would I do the same ?

    His latest fads (all found for sale on the net)...
    ~~Isometric exercises that release a hormone to the brain to help eliminate dementia....and to get the full story, he needs to $ubscribe to a series of videos, paid.
    ~~Take 2 tablespoons of coconut oil every day.
    ~~ Resveratrol and fish oil to eliminate aging issues.
    ~~ Herbal remedies for his prostate problems.
    ~~ Evaporated Cane Juice is not like regular sugar, so it's OK for diabetics.

    The most frustrating part of all this...is that he will not believe my (and family's) recommendations or his doctor's advice.
    If he sees it on the internet, it becomes a sort of truth to him, despite what I suggest or other research that has laid skeptical claims to. I've shown and led him to "on the net" contrary evidence, to his beliefs. It does not affect his beliefs.
    Close family'members health suggestions (to him) are no match to the plethora of "safe alternative advice" he finds on the net.

    When I step away from all this.....my father could be seen as a stubborn mule, that thinks what he believes is the truth, and the internet agrees with him if he reads certain websites.
    Take the "organic evaporated cane juice" idea. It's still sugar....all sugar. But he believes it's different because "the guy at Whole Foods" says it's different, and that it metabolizes differently because it's organic and not 'refined sugar'.
    .....not good advice for a diabetic. I've shown him 5 or 6 articles that explains why and how 'evaporated cane juice' is still sugar.....but he continues to believe otherwise, believing the guy at Whole Foods, over me.....while I supplied facts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
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  7. Marin B

    Marin B Active Member

    I appreciate and share your frustration! Overall, I think the internet can be really good for elderly people because they can stay more connected and it's a source of entertainment. But yes, it can get frustrating when they fall for information just because it's on YouTube. Thankfully in my case it doesn't involve health scams -- just a belief in nearly every CT theory out there. On the positive side I discovered Metabunk because of it :)
     
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  8. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    My heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is to stand by and watch such things unfold.

    For me though, I kinda luck out in this one area: While it may frustrate me in 20 small ways that I've never been able
    to get my (slightly younger) dad on the internet, the silver lining is that it pretty much limits the medical advice
    he gets to that of his doctor.
     
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  9. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    People will scour the net, in order to self-diagnose and treat themselves based on good 'ole confirmation bias.
    But not everyone.
    "It's good to be a skeptic"
     
  10. darrenr

    darrenr New Member

    I'm lucky that none of the people in my family or anyone I know appear to believe in bunk, although my mother did swear blind that acupuncture had helped her elderly cat with his joint pain. I let that one slide because I had no idea what else the vet might have done at the same time. Massage? Medication? Maybe the cat just liked the attention and it cheered him up. Who knows.

    I do recall a few years ago overhearing some work colleagues having a serious discussion about ghosts and what they'd do if they ever saw one, and how terrified they'd be. I interjected with 'You do know ghosts aren't real, right?' They just looked at me dumbfounded, as if this concept had never occurred to them.
     
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  11. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    I didn't pull the whole quote. Family (or friends) who believe in bunk? Difficult to navigate.... James Randi
    has many books on the topic of "bunk", to name just one of many. It requires careful discourse, when trying to talk about these topics.

    I am NOT good at keeping my passions under control, because I have strong beliefs....and i am learning to realize that those
    who have religious, or other de-bunkable beliefs.....YET they hold those beliefs strongly? It is difficult to cut to the "core",
    if that works(?) Get down to principles, logic, science.....

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Adding: "Bunk" comes in many categories. So, perhaps? We could define a definition besides the original, which is the scientific
    inaccuracy of so-called "chem-trails". "Bunk" expands further than that......as this site has shown....
     
  13. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    I think it's pretty much impossible to debunk religion. How can you prove that someone's "God" doesn't exist?

    PS: Of course that's different than saying they can't prove their "God" DOES exist.
     
  14. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Well, isn't that the "point"? One cannot "disprove" something that doesn't exist....

    EDIT...Scientific method: Hypothesis, Experiment, Observation.

    Think about it.....
     
  15. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Yes. That puts "God", as a whole, out of the realm of possible debunking. Certain specific CLAIMS about "God" might be another matter.
     
  16. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Elderly people tend to gravitate toward extremes, when a scientific cure or treatment of their age-expected ailments are not assuredly fixed by science.
    Yes, they often turn to religion too. These I guess, can be expected to some extent.
    They actually acknowledge their life is coming to an end, and seek out unconventional cures (as do the terminally diseased, example: cancer patients).
    But the free-market supplement industry and CAM, sees an unwritten opportunity to prey on the elderly and the others that want a "fix" that current science cannot yet resolve.
    I'm sure there are CAM proponents who are true-believers of their methods.....but I can't help but be suspicious that many are also in-it for the cash.

    It's about "hope".
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  17. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    It's just like any other business. People sell stuff other people will buy.
     
  18. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Selling known bunk, angers me.
    But I should state that i don't know that they know it's bunk, or if it's intentional or not.
     
  19. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    World business thrives on people buying stuff they don't really need. That's a sort of "bunk" in itself.
     
  20. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    My mom was reading some weirdo sounding site about 'anxiety', so i blocked it on her computer. Luckily she knows nothing about computers so i just told her McAFee probably found something dangerous on it like identity theft stuff.

    I wonder if you raise (or maybe its technically 'lower') the computers security settings if it would block alot of the hard core woo selling sites. ?
     
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  21. Freak

    Freak Active Member

    Probably, but you run the risk of blocking some legit sites as well.
     
  22. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    OK.....I tell MY mother that I will download MalWareBytes....and I did. My mother already gets horrible e-maiis, from the few people she trusted...VERY few, with her e-mail address.... all she wanted to do is FaceBook.....to stay in touch with some extended family by 2nd marriage....just a few....and I helped set up her FB account...AND I set up her gmail....knowing it was limited, but she HAD to get online, if minimally....

    BUT? My mother can "smell" bunk....not literally, of course....but she has a good sense of "nonsense"....and i help her, when possible....
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  23. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    If a family member believes in bunk? Suggestion, treat it as a typical family holiday get-tother. 3 rules: Politics, Religion and Sex
    are "off-the-table"....because any discussion in a family gathering tends to (usually) blow up into shouting.

    Treat any family member gently, with a personal approach, and just listen. No easy "solution", but sometimes a good solid
    "listen" as the family member speaks? (and you stay silent, but hear it intently) is a start....
     
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  24. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I wonder if a lot of people "discovering new ideas" found on the net.......feel no need to "fact-check" these ideas and claims. This is a huge problem, because they either don't bother to check the facts, or don't know how to check the facts, or assume there is no reason to check facts (possibly because of confirmation bias).
    In this thread I have used my father as an example of someone who does not check facts.

    Being a friendly son (a good boy).....I politely led him to a site explaining "how" to fact-check internet news, ideas, and somewhat frothy claims....
    http://www.realsimple.com/work-life/technology/fact-check-internet

    If he doesn't listen to my vocal reasoning about the importance of fact-checking, perhaps if he sees a method published on-line, he may be more persuaded to believe it.

    (if you find another good and simple to read site about fact-checking, please post)
     
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  25. Oh really?

    Oh really? Member

    Very frustrating to say the least. Sometimes they're so caught up in their theory they don't and won't accept that it's untrue. I have lost a spouse to this.
     
  26. Marin B

    Marin B Active Member

    Here's a podcast that has an interesting conversation about this very topic, it's the first part of the March 24th episode, titled "If you're worried about the future, look at the past". The 2nd interview is also good, Both interviews talk about the psychology behind belief in conspiracies.

    Episode description:
     
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  27. Apple

    Apple New Member

    I know for myself this was my issue. I would encounter information and fact check the first bit and assume the rest was fine unaware that CT often use nuggets of truth to provide legitimacy before pushing the nonsense. It results in you starting to believe the nonsense and it starts to poison your intuition until your intuition and your new CT world view makes you reject information that doesn't fit your bias and accept information that you would never accept before.

    Although it might be obvious the best defense against CTs is a good understanding of logical fallacies and how people abuse them to convince people of nonsense. Since CT have to distort facts and an excellent method is exploiting the flaws of the general populous reasoning. Fact checking no doubt it useful as without it, information is worthless.

    All High Schools should really teach basic logic/reasoning and fact checking as a simple class that takes up an hour a day could solve a lot of societies problems.
     
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  28. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    This video speaks about the phenomenon of what we might call "group-think" and how it strengthens an individuals beliefs. The speaker calls it "common knowledge". I think it speaks volumes about how the internet has strengthened and accelerated CT thinking.




    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sGX_ZOrxrc&t=0s
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  29. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I like Pinker....he doesn't resort to super-tech terms, and explains his ideas in plain terms.
     
  30. Stefan

    Stefan New Member

    Hi All,

    You may have seen my introduction in the the welcome thread. This is about my mother and how she has changed so radically in the last few year. She is retired from a good job, has a decent retirement income and lives in a nice apartment in a small town in Germany.

    As already stated in my introduction post, she now believes that virtually all mainstream media cannot be trusted (are government controlled), that Muslims l are taking over Germany/Europe and that this is actually planned and wanted by the government, even by the UN (resettlement). She believes in chemtrails (even though I am a pilot and should be the first to know...), doesn't believe in vaccination (any more, even though my brother and I were vaccinated with no negative effects), believes that Hitler wasn't really to blame for starting WW2 (was left no choice), follows right wing nationalists/populists in Germany and kind of seem to admire both Putin and Trump..., believes 9/11 was a government job etc, buys silver coins and hides them in her apartment as she believes the collapse of the finical system is just around the corner, believes in very questionable alternative medicine etc, etc. I think you get the idea. She gets most of her ideas from youtube videos. Hello "filter bubble" :-( Apparently she also meets some like minded people in real life but she is quite secretive about that.

    Basically it has become nearly impossible to have any kind of conversation with her without touching one or more of the above topics. In fact, she has a tendency to want to speak about them. However, that never ends well.

    My wife and I have a little son and we would like for him to have a normal relationship with his grandmother but at the same time I don't want her to have a lot of influence on him. I would not currently consider letting our son sleep at her place for example, even though my wife and I would love to do something on our owns sometimes. I just fear that our son will be exposed to her views and he is way too young to test them.

    This has developed into a major problem for me and my brother and of course our mother, too. I am more the analytical, rational person, and my brother a little more the emotional type, but very smart and educated at the same time. I would need to see some progress on the factual side of things before being able or willing to continue to invest time on the emotional relationship with her. My brother is more prepared to continue to have a relationship with her and take it from there.

    It bothers me greatly that she trusts and believess her "sources" on chemtrails more than me. I have been in aviation (cargo, passengers, VIP) for 20 years and personally know hundreds of pilots, engineers, mechanics, meteorologists, former air force pilots from air forces all over Europe and the U.S. etc. If there was large scale chemtrail activity of any kind, I would know about it. So my mother must think that I am either stupid or part of the conspiracy. This hurts me tremendously. When confronted she says the understands that it must be difficult for me but she avoids answering any concrete questions.

    My brother has suggested that she should chose one theory she believes in and that he would sit down with her to analyze it. She chose chematrails. It's a slap in the face for me. However, it's an easy one to debunk so I have a bit of hope. They haven't sat down yet, though.

    Do you have any advice for my brother and me? My many attempts to get through to her on the factual level (in person, on the phone, by email) etc have been fruitless. She seems to want to believe all the things she believes. She often refers to her "Erkenntnisse" which translates to "findings" or "realizations but in this context might also mean "revelations". It feels like I am dealing with a follower of some kind of cult. Real facts don't seem to matter much to her anymore. Only those facts or pseudo-facts that seem to support her view of the world.

    How do my brother and I deal with this? Has anyone here been in a similar situation and has a success story to share?

    Thanks for reading.

    Stefan
     
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  31. Clouds Givemethewillies

    Clouds Givemethewillies Active Member

    It is a sad situation. One of my grandfathers was largely self-educated, having started work in the cotton mills at the age of 12. He was into all sorts of quackery. As I child I hated his visits from a very early age. I think it more likely that your children will avoid, rather than become 'infected' by her views. I would steer her towards a doctor/psychiatrist, if at all possible, not that I have much faith in them myself.. There might be some underlying cause.
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The "filter bubble" is the core problem there. She's got a limited number of information source, a "crippled epistemology", but she thinks she has special knowledge that you don't.

    It's hard to tackled something like this head on. You can't just wade in with "chemtrails are false". You really need to build up her understanding of the topic without any expectation at first that she will change her mind. Pick something like "contrails don't persist" or "high bypass jet engines don't make contrails". Try to first understand why she believes this particular fact. Where did she get that information from. Don't get angry or frustrated, just try to understand her.
    Identify what it is she's missing or misunderstands. This can be quite complicated. Try to expose her to information that's a neutral as possible. I like to use old books on clouds - there's going to be German equivalents of these old books.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72uACIN_00

    Stephanie Wittschier understands the issues, and might be a good German language resource:
    http://blog.dielockereschraube.de/

    I interviewed Stephaine for my book Escaping The Rabbit Hole, which discusses this type of thing (and has a large section on chemtrails). (There might be a German version, but that's not yet decided, depends on demand)

    It takes time. You've got to first (and most importantly) keep communication open and effective, then keep exposing her to missing information, and to new sources of information. At the same time point out some of the problems with the sources she currently uses. Especially when you can point out errors in that information that her source has not corrected.

    It does not always work, but hard-core believers DO escape, sometimes after years of seemingly intractable resistance. Don't give up hope, it can be a slow process that seems to make no progress, but each bit of new information you give her is doing something.

    And keep it friendly wherever possible. You'll get through to her much more effectively as a supportive friend than as a destructive enemy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  33. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

  34. Stefan

    Stefan New Member

    Thank you guys very much for the responses so far.

    @Clouds Givemethewillies: My mom's case is slightly different in that she has always been pretty "normal" all her working live. She even worked for a big multinational. It's really only been once she retired that these things happened. And fast. I don't think she would consider seeing a doctor for even a minute since she is convinced she is right. Besides, I am not sure that would be the most promising approach, anyway.

    @deirdre: Thank you. I did see that part of the forum, but haven't spend too much time reading it. What I need is people who have helped loved ones to escape the rabbit whole in similar situations and how they did it.

    @Mick: I am very grateful for your repose. It's true, trying to keep emotions out of it is very difficult at times. I Have read a lot of your excellent advise and will endeavor to live by it. I am very much looking forward to your book. I'll get it as soon as it's out in September. My mom is pretty proficient in English. She could easily read your book. But would she? Would you recommend I get her a copy to read or should my brother and I read it and use the information in your book to try to help her see where she is wrong?

    Thank you for telling me about Stephanie. I hadn't found her website before. I did find a similar blog here, though: https://blog.dergoldenealuhut.de. I have been in touch with one of the people behind it and the advise has been good but quite general in nature.

    In general I agree with you that one needs to debunk one fact at a time. However, in my particular situation (as a pilot) I can't help but take it personally that she doesn't seem to be able to believe or trust me on this particular issue but instead chooses to believe the conspiracy. Of course I have tried the facts. But I do have a tendency to overwhelm her with too many facts at a time, I think. I can be impatient when she believes things that seem so obviously stupid to me.

    I will share this discussion with my brother and I will report how things develop with my mom.

    In the meantime I will gratefully read every word of additional advice which the community might be able to share.

    Thanks again

    Stefan
     
  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Tricky, and you'd be the best judge of that. Read it first yourself and then see. The first part of the book is really all about me explaining myself, and what I do and why. I'm not really sure how true believers will react to it.

    A lot of the info on chemtrails is here, the book just takes you through a bunch of key points, and discusses how to talk about them.
     
  36. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I think getting as much insight into why they are thinking like they do, might be a good primer for you before engaging her. Plus they do talk about what helped them out of the hole.

    ah. Was she active on the social side of the internet before retirement? if not, perhaps showing her bunk not related to her beliefs might help her realize the true nature of the internet.

    Is she lonely since retirement? are perhaps these social media friends filling a loneliness void for her? is she the type of person that would join a community (real life) group, if she is indeed feeling isolated since retirement?

    My mom is only slightly older than yours, and she 'lost it' about 5 years ago. Not conspiracy related, something fairly normal happened and although it has happened in the past, this time it freaked her out really to the point of PTSD about it. (fear of burglars breaking in type stuff). This reaction was very unlike her. She is slowly getting better, but we've been implementing a lot of strategies to help and it is still a slow process... as she was that traumatized by the event. Nothing at all bad happened, it was just a false alarm that scared her.

    We've (including her) been discussing "why" this freaked her out so bad, and we're still not really sure.. basically we are chalking it up to age. She has a friend about your moms age that is suddenly terrified of her house too (for no apparent reason).

    I'm only mentioning all this, since you don't mention having a sister, and ..well handle her gently because woman can go off the rails at times for no truly recognizable reason. It's all obviously fear based, but its hard to pinpoint what the internal fear really is. If my mom knew how to work the internet at all, I could see her transferring her internal fears to some externals fears she sees on the internet. Their entire world's are changing.. they are physically more vulnerable to many things (breakins, disease etc) , retirement signals a "last stage of life" (scary to deal with), society is vastly different than what they grew up knowing, my mom has a very, very good retirement 'income' and she's still nervous about finances, etc etc.

    be gentle with her, I know it's hard not to take things personally (been there), but try and remember she is 'not herself'...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  37. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I think this is something that can happen after retirement and advanced aging......... boredom, and isolation, along with retrospective analysis of life thoughts.....plus the certain prospect of death. I think these all play a part when an elderly person approaches and enters "old age".
    My father is 83, and his wife is gone (passed). There is not a lot for him to do, given his physical limitations. People who were formally busy with life duties, hobbies, or just general interaction.... are left with a hole.
    And because the internet is easy and available.... sometimes that becomes their hobby ; or hole-filler.
    Unfortunately, it's too easy to find stuff on the net that seems interesting, but is not always based in truth.

    Analogy... prison inmates who were not ever very religious, often turn to spirituality. This may be because they are sorry for their mis-deeds.....(or other reasons) but possibly also out of sheer boredom. I can't prove this theory, but I could imagine it happening. (I'll research that)

    My elderly father has become more spiritual, more interested in quack science, and more disbelieving of "accepted norms". If he finds something on the net that disagrees with his doctors' advice, he will not follow the doctor's recommendations, but would rather believe the crap on the net.

    It's become way too easy to find "interesting ideas" on the internet that then allow bored people to seriously consider these ideas as fact and truth. If you "Google chemtrails", you will find scores of sites that promote the idea, and just a few sites that refute it. This may be more problematic for the elderly generation**, and their inability to filter out the BS.

    **(edit, add) elderly who have not yet realized that the net is often a place for scams and games.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  38. Stefan

    Stefan New Member

    @ Mick, Thanks. Will do that. Read

    @deirdre and Leider, I think you are definitely onto something. It must be to do with age and loneliness. It's certainly some kind of fear of "everything" by now.

    She has never learned how to "consume" media critically. She was actually never very interested in politics and what goes on in the world. Now that she thinks she is, that makes it so much harder for her to properly analyze what she sees and reads. She thinks she can think critically but she really can't. It started quite innocently a few years ago with things such as investing some money in a a plantation for Moringa, some kind of "wonder plant", which actually does seem to have benefits, but the guy who runs the scheme is either an amateur or a scammer and that was immediately apparent to me but not to her. She then got involved with something called "Biocybernetics" and some form of treatment similar to acupressure (but without any kind of studies to proof its effectiveness) related to it. It evolved form there and got worse and worse. I should probably ask her if she now also believes the earth is flat but I am bit afraid of the answer...

    Not sure if she is on Facebook (I am not). She definitely watches too many YT videos, and the wrong ones. She has mentioned meeting at least one person in real live that shares her beliefs. She does go and do Tai chi once a week with others but not sure how much interaction she still has with the outside world apart form that. She doesn't speak to her sisters anymore (not related to conspiracies), has one brother who she is still somewhat close with, has distanced herself from her best friend (she says it's the other way around, but I doubt it).
     
  39. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Reviewing my own situation as an example, a stubborn, drifting parent is definitely frustrating, and I wonder if there's some dementia.
    I'm my father's caretaker, so I see problems and situations every day.
    But in order not to drive myself crazy, I often try to focus on the good things, rather than fret over the bad.
    This IS hard to do and I don't always succeed.
    He's an 83yo man with bad eyes, ears, kidneys, heart.
    I shouldn't expect perfectness.
     
  40. Stefan

    Stefan New Member

    @Leifer , being a caretaker for a parent must be very tough. I think you are doing well to concentrate on the positives. I guess I probably would find it easier on a mental level dealing with age related degradations such as you describe. An old person with bad eyes, ears etc is normal. Even a person with dementia is somewhat "normal" but I am sure more difficult to deal with. In my mom's case I don't think(!) it's dementia. She remembers everything and everyone and speaks "clearly". it's just that her views have changed so radically.