What Keeps Conspiracy Theories Alive (article)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
If you want to get into the actual science, then do as I suggested. Pick something, verify it is correct, then start a thread explaining how it contradicts NIST.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
If Gulf of Tonkin was never declassified, you would still continue believing any idea that it might be a lie is a crazy conspiracy theory, am I correct?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Why is his OPINION more important than that of 1,000's of other physicists and structural engineers that agree with the NIST.

Pick a point that hasn't already been debunked to death and start a thread.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
Why is his OPINION more important than that of 1,000's of other physicists and structural engineers that agree with the NIST.

Pick a point that hasn't already been debunked to death and start a thread.
Maybe because he's not affiliated with an agency with links to Department of Defense which stood to benefit from the attack? Show me these 1000s of scientists who agree with the NIST...
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I suggest that you start with this link;


http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf That discusses WTC7

More


Letter to the Editor
Refuting 9/11 Conspiracy Theory

April 09, 2006

Dear Editor,

After reading in the Daily Herald the presentations made by Professor Steven E. Jones (BYU Physics) to students at UVSC and BYU, I feel obligated to reply to his "Conspiracy Theory" relating to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center (9/11/01).

I have studied the summary of the report by FEMA, The American Society of Civil Engineers and several other professional engineering organizations. These experts have given in detail the effects on the Towers by the impact of the commercial aircraft. I have also read Professor Jones' (referred to) 42 page unpublished report. In my understanding of structural design and the properties of structural steel I find Professor Jones' thesis that planted explosives (rather than fire from the planes) caused the collapse of the Towers, very unreliable.

The structural design of the towers was unique in that the supporting steel structure consisted of closely spaced columns in the walls of all four sides. The resulting structure was similar to a tube. When the aircraft impacted the towers at speeds of about 500 plus mph, many steel columns were immediately severed and others rendered weak by the following fires. The fires critically damaged the floors systems. Structural steel will begin to lose strength when heated to temperatures above 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Steel bridge girders are bent to conform to the curved roadway by spot heating flanges between 800 and 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. It is easy to comprehend the loss of carrying capacity of all the structural steel due to the raging fires fed by the jet's fuel as well as aircraft and building contents.

Before one (especially students) supports such a conspiracy theory, they should investigate all details of the theory. To me a practicing structural engineer of 57 continuous years (1941-1998), Professor Jones' presentations are very disturbing.

D. Allan Firmage

Professor Emeritus, Civil Engineering, BYU
Content from External Source
http://www.netxnews.net/vnews/display.v/ART/2006/04/09/443801bdadd6e


http://www.debunking911.com/civil.htm

This page has a long list of papers

http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm

All you really needed to do was to look for them.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
What exactly do you think the gulf of tonkin attack was?

Maybe because he's not affiliated with an agency with links to Department of Defense which stood to benefit from the attack? Show me these 1000s of scientists who agree with the NIST...
What does that have do to with anything? You do realise that is not evidence for a single thing except your own bias?

So as long as someone is not affiliated in any way with the accused (the DOD), they are to be believed? That's so ridiculous. It's the merits of the argument itself that should be your only guide, not whether someone is establishment or anti-establishment.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
What exactly do you think the gulf of tonkin attack was?
Declassified documents have proven it to be a lie. It was a lie which was used to launch a war at the expense of 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese lives so a few corporate interests could make a vast PROFIT. Such as Brown & Root (which later became Halliburton) who made BILLIONS from the war and it's come out that LBJ received massive cash payments from them.
What does that have do to with anything? You do realise that is not evidence for a single thing except your own bias?
Asking an agency with investigators linked to Department of Defense to carry out this investigation is like asking Eric Holder to investigate himself for the illegal wiretapping of AP reporters. Would you be inclined to consider an independent investigative findings or Eric Holder's investigative findings?
 
Last edited:

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Maybe because he's not affiliated with an agency with links to Department of Defense which stood to benefit from the attack?

Every government in the world benefited from 9/11. The fact that they benefited doesn't mean it was orchestrated by any of them.

Show me these 1000s of scientists who agree with the NIST...

Let's see, according to the US BLS OES[1] there are 2,356,530 architectural and engineering positions in the US. There are 1,976 signatories of A&E9/11(far less than 1%). So, even if we're generous and say that 20% of those engineers have not heard of 9/11 conspiracy theories or A&E9/11... we're talking more than 1.5 million in the US alone.

Besides the ones in the US, surely you can think of a few countries that would just love to call the US government's bluff on a conspiracy so vast and significant it altered the course of history forever?

http://bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#17-0000
 
Last edited:

Cairenn

Senior Member.
The NIST is not a part of the Defense Dept, it is a part of the Commerce Dept

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) — known between 1901 and 1988 as the National Bureau of Standards (NBS) — is a measurement standards laboratory, otherwise known as a National Metrological Institute (NMI), which is a non-regulatory agency of the United States Department of Commerce. The institute's official mission is to:[1]
Content from External Source
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Could you please explain what the links were/are? What does it take to 'client of the DOD'? I have no idea what is trying to show, please explain.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
The question was quite clear - what keeps conspiracy theories alive - if you have an opinion share it. If you don't, then that's fine.
I have an opinion on what was being 'discussed', and shared it. I quoted your post as it was a pretty distinct example of using the question as a platform from which to make negative generalizations about "CTers" as a whole, which was my opinion of this thread in a nutshell.
This does nothing other than to derail and detract from the subject matter and perhaps to insult. And quite frankly, it is irritating.
First, I'd have to question where exactly this subject was going for me to have 'derailed' it. Second, I'm sorry to have insulted you. None the less, there were some earnest questions in my post as to your opinion on the 9/11 commission which you've not addressed throughout, focusing instead on my 'attack'.
I recognise that not everyone has the ability to be a legal research assistant, but having a personal dislike or problem with certain professions (in this case Judges and the Military) should not be a reason to launch attacks on people you perceive to be in those professions. Just keep to the facts of this topic.
I have absolutely nothing against Judges. I'd just be incredibly surprised if you were one, which is why I asked. You still seem to be implying you're a Judge here. I mean no offense when I say I don't think that's the case. And, as I'm sure you were suggesting, my job isn't all that difficult, no.
Every government in the world benefited from 9/11.
**COUGH-AFGHANISTAN-IRAQ-LIBYA-SYRIA-COUGH**
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
My opinion of why Conspiracy theories are kept alive is this.

Folks looking for someone or something to blame for their 'condition' and for what happens in the world. The ancients had the Gods/Goddesses and Titans and such. In Europe, during the Middle Ages it was 'God'. 'God' gave the 'divine right to rule' to some.

The problem with allowing ordinary folks to become leaders is that they come with built in biases and yes even prejudices and worst of all, blind spots. They make mistakes. It is easy to turn those things into elaborate conspiracies and desirable to many, since admitting the real REASONS, human 'frailty' means admitting the same about oneself.

Let me use a real world small group example. In one hobby group I am in, we do not elect or 'leaders'. Local leaders serve for several years and then step down. Folks that are interested in serving apply, the local members will be consulted, but the actual choice is not ours. However, when a change happens, the new couple will turn to a different group for support. Folks often get upset and will gossip that there is favoritism going on. It looks like that, but it is really more that folks will depend on those that they know. Not just their good points, but their failings as well. I have trouble getting places on time. NO one that knows me, would have me pick up the key for a site, so others can get in at 7 am. My best friend is very good about being on time, but you don't want to be around her if she had to get up real early in the morning. Now my hubby, on the other hand, is great at both, but he will be asleep in the car at midnight, during tear down. If you know me, my friend and my hubby, you can plan around our good and bad points. Not a conspiracy, not favoritism , just common sense.

Of course there are real conspiracies, both good and bad in government. The same is true of secrets.

Those who cling to elaborate conspiracy theories, after they have been shown the facts that deny them, like what contrails really are, do it because it allows them to explain the world in a simple form.

They tend to not be deep thinkers, or folks willing to reason things out, they want a simple answer, even if it is wrong. Conspiracy theories are a substitute for religion by some.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
What keeps CT alive?
Naive idealism and outrage at the harsh pragmatic realities of the civilized world and how power is used.

Putting energy into describing conspiracies is not he best way to change things for the better and basically sidelines all energy for change to the fringe of society, but as there's a constant stream of people coming to knowledge of the world for the first time there's always an audience for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top