Vindog's Contrail Questions [Contrails Near Boston]

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I guess that low, dark cloud in #29 is what you say was a trail from Logan? Why do you feel it's not just a shaded cloud? Why do you think that is even a trail from a plane out of Logan? Like the other situation, the sun is low in the sky and some of the clouds are in shadow. Looks completely normal to me. Please describe specifically what you think is abnormal. Please don't say "everything".
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Vindog, you need to post the video of the aircraft "chemtrailing" straight out of Logan with some sort of correlation like looking at Flight Radar 24 and identifying where the aircraft came from and it's altitude as it passes over.

Are you aware you live almost directly beneath one of the most active air corridors in the world; from the North east of the US to Europe?

Would you be seeing most of the trails to the west of where you live?
 

Vindog

Member
You are making the claim. Describe what you find abnormal about them. Compare them to older photos of contrails.
On both of the screen shots that you posted for me, every bit of "cloud" that you see was produced by an airplane. and that darker cloud that you see on the bottom of the horizon of both shots goes from boston MA to at least Rhode Island. That is what is abnormal about it.
 

Vindog

Member
I guess that low, dark cloud in #29 is what you say was a trail from Logan? Why do you feel it's not just a shaded cloud? Why do you think that is even a trail from a plane out of Logan?
because i watched it form out of "contrails" in to that chem cloud. and not only that, it stretches from logan, all the way to rhode island, and follows the flight path, i mean cmon, use some common sense and do the math
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
How do almost ALL of the airplanes that leave logan airport leave chemtrails almost from the moment of lift-off?

No plane will be leaving contrails until it's about 30,000 feet, which takes ten minute or more. So what exactly are you referring to?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
because i watched it form out of "contrails" in to that chem cloud. and not only that, it stretches from logan, all the way to rhode island, and follows the flight path, i mean cmon, use some common sense and do the math
But contrails often spread out into clouds.

because i watched it form out of "contrails" in to that chem cloud. and not only that, it stretches from logan, all the way to rhode island, and follows the flight path, i mean cmon, use some common sense and do the math
You do the math. What exactly is the problem here? Contrails can be hundreds of miles long in the right weather conditions.
 

Vindog

Member
Vindog, you need to post the video of the aircraft "chemtrailing" straight out of Logan with some sort of correlation like looking at Flight Radar 24 and identifying where the aircraft came from and it's altitude as it passes over.

Are you aware you live almost directly beneath one of the most active air corridors in the world; from the North east of the US to Europe?

Would you be seeing most of the trails to the west of where you live?
I dunno if its still in this thread, but I dont have a video like that that i can upload. I Live in NJ now, but Im going home this week to visit friends and family. I will be mostly on the south coast, but im sure that ill be in or near the city at some point and will try to get a good video for you. But I mean, cmon, with what ive posted im pretty sure its good enough. 300 grove street is 11.4 miles from Logan, and planes travel at what? 300mph? do the math? how much time does that take?
 

Vindog

Member
No plane will be leaving contrails until it's about 30,000 feet, which takes ten minute or more. So what exactly are you referring to?
THANK YOU!!! thats my whole point!!! these planes are leaving the "contrails" when they shouldnt be. Too low, and 11 miles from the airport? that is my whole point.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
because i watched it form out of "contrails" in to that chem cloud. and not only that, it stretches from logan, all the way to rhode island, and follows the flight path, i mean cmon, use some common sense and do the math

The "common sense" you are expecting me to use, is that I should believe what you say about how that cloud formed and that it came out of a plane which took off from Logan, which I think you said is only some 11 miles away. Since you already have expected me to believe that you have observed planes trailing soon after takeoff, something which would be truly astounding, I am reluctant to take your word for anything.
 

Vindog

Member
But contrails often spread out into clouds.


You do the math. What exactly is the problem here? Contrails can be hundreds of miles long in the right weather conditions.
You're question was what makes me think they are not normal clouds.......I answer it by saying that i watched them form from airplanes, and your response is that that is normal.....circular argument.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
THANK YOU!!! thats my whole point!!! these planes are leaving the "contrails" when they shouldnt be. Too low, and 11 miles from the airport? that is my whole point.

They are not from the airport. They are flyover traffic from and to distant cities.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You're question was what makes me think they are not normal clouds.......I answer it by saying that i watched them form from airplanes, and your response is that that is normal.....circular argument.

I'm asking why they are not contrails. Contrails form from planes. Contrail can spread out into clouds.
 

Vindog

Member
The "common sense" you are expecting me to use, is that I should believe what you say about how that cloud formed and that it came out of a plane which took off from Logan, which I think you said is only some 11 miles away. Since you already have expected me to believe that you have observed planes trailing soon after takeoff, something which would be truly astounding, I am reluctant to take your word for anything.
Well in that video YOu get a full view of the stores in the parking lot that im standing in...if you dont believe me then do some research and see if all those stores ARE in fact at 300 grove street braintree ma, and then go to google earth and see the distance from logan to there....sheesh....

For me to come here and make up stories and lies would do me no good.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
because i watched it form out of "contrails" in to that chem cloud. and not only that, it stretches from logan, all the way to rhode island, and follows the flight path, i mean cmon, use some common sense and do the math
A video of all this happening would clear of a lot of confusion. I have seen the claim made MANY times of "low altitude spraying", but never a single vid showing it. Not one. Yours is not an exception. You CLAIM the plane took off from Logan, but you are only guessing.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well in that video YOu get a full view of the stores in the parking lot that im standing in...if you dont believe me then do some research and see if all those stores ARE in fact at 300 grove street braintree ma, and then go to google earth and see the distance from logan to there....sheesh....

For me to come here and make up stories and lies would do me no good.

Again, the planes are probably not from Logan.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Well in that video YOu get a full view of the stores in the parking lot that im standing in...if you dont believe me then do some research and see if all those stores ARE in fact at 300 grove street braintree ma, and then go to google earth and see the distance from logan to there....sheesh....

For me to come here and make up stories and lies would do me no good.
I wasn't questioning the location of the vid. What is in question is whether a plane you saw coming from the direction of Logan, which was trailing, actually took off from Logan.
 

Vindog

Member
I guess that low, dark cloud in #29 is what you say was a trail from Logan? Why do you feel it's not just a shaded cloud? Why do you think that is even a trail from a plane out of Logan? Like the other situation, the sun is low in the sky and some of the clouds are in shadow. Looks completely normal to me. Please describe specifically what you think is abnormal. Please don't say "everything".
So this was the question that I was answer Mick, Im sorry im getting confused on who said what, but i have like 4 different conversations happening here.
 

Vindog

Member
My head hurts. It's late. At this point the only think I can do is to hope to make a good video this week as close to logan as i can. Ill try to use that site as well Mick.

I think its funny though, that all of your arguments are hinging on the fact that you all are assuming that Im guessing, or didnt see what I saw.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I DO take the argument of "you never used to see this in the 90's but now its all day everyday."

By the way, the most common chemtrail believer claim USED to be usually that it all started in the "mid-90s". As time has gone by, the claim has changed a lot, becoming both years later and decades earlier. As I said, there is precious little agreement on that. This should make you wonder about the general veracity of the claims and how fallible memories have played a role.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
My head hurts. It's late. At this point the only think I can do is to hope to make a good video this week as close to logan as i can. Ill try to use that site as well Mick.

I think its funny though, that all of your arguments are hinging on the fact that you all are assuming that Im guessing, or didnt see what I saw.

Seeing is not the same thing as understanding what you see. What you have CONCLUDED about what you saw would be remarkable, if true. We would love to see some vid of planes trailing soon after takeoff from Logan or ANY airport. Have any? No, you don't. Will you GET any? VERY highly unlikely.
 

Vindog

Member
You'll need to add a filter to only get the contrail altitude traffic:
Contrail altitude is basically 26500 and up then? is that correct?

does this mean that if I can film a plane at a lower altitude leaving a trail that I am correct about chemtrails then?

Even if I did film that plane and had this computer up with Radar24 on the screen showing you lets say a filter of only 0ft to 26500, would you even believe me or say im somehow doctoring stuff?

Seriously, should i even waste my time presenting my findings to you guys if they go my way?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
My head hurts. It's late. At this point the only think I can do is to hope to make a good video this week as close to logan as i can. Ill try to use that site as well Mick.

I think its funny though, that all of your arguments are hinging on the fact that you all are assuming that Im guessing, or didnt see what I saw.

I don't think that's true at all. Obviously you saw what you saw - you just misinterpreted it. Have a look at this:


The blue lines show only high altitude flights (over 22000 feet) You are just to the south of Boston. Every single trail on this map is within a line of sight of you. Directly to the west of you (about 20 miles)is some of the busiest flyover area in the country. A vast number of high altitude flights (mostly to/from Europe). And they cross in a huge messy gird.

This exactly correlates with what you are seeing.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Contrail altitude is basically 26500 and up then? is that correct?

does this mean that if I can film a plane at a lower altitude leaving a trail that I am correct about chemtrails then?

Depends on the weather. In the summer then 28000 feet is a safer bet. In the winter it can be down as low as 15,000 or lower, depending on how far north you are (in the contiguous US)

Even if I did film that plane and had this computer up with Radar24 on the screen showing you lets say a filter of only 0ft to 26500, would you even believe me or say im somehow doctoring stuff?

Seriously, should i even waste my time presenting my findings to you guys if they go my way?

Let deal with what is in your videos first. They match the air traffic, wouldn't you agree?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
"Contrail altitude is basically 26500 and up then? is that correct? does this mean that if I can film a plane at a lower altitude leaving a trail that I am correct about chemtrails then? "

Sorry, but it's not that simple. [...]

 
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Vindog

Member
Would you be seeing most of the trails to the west of where you live?
after viewing radar 24 for a few minutes with different filters this question is more valid to me now. the answer is no. I saw most of the planes directly over head when i was in quincy, braintree, dedham, or foxboro.
 

Vindog

Member
Listen guys, I know I probably sound like im stubborn on this issue, but I AM trying to be open minded....you guys are just not giving me convincing arguments is all. Hope I'm not being to standoffish
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
after viewing radar 24 for a few minutes with different filters this question is more valid to me now. the answer is no. I saw most of the planes directly over head when i was in quincy, braintree, dedham, or foxboro.

What angle from the horizontal. Think about it, and point your arm as if you were pointing at the trail. What is the angle between your arm and the horizontal?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Listen guys, I know I probably sound like im stubborn on this issue, but I AM trying to be open minded....you guys are just not giving me convincing arguments is all. Hope I'm not being to standoffish

What would be very helpful would be if you could give a very recent photo of what you are talking about. Preferably one that includes the sun and the horizon, and several trails you find suspicious. Then the planes that made the trails can be identified, and you can see exactly how far away they are.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
you guys are just not giving me convincing arguments is all.

You are expecting us to be able convince you that your memory is wrong. How could anyone ever do that? Truth is, your memory is of little consequence in light of the vast historical record. There are probably thousands of images of persistent contrails during the time when you claim you never saw a single one. How does it make any sense that none of those trails were over your area, which is a very busy flight corridor?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Would a plane that had taken off north of logan Fly directly over the airport, lower its elevation as it did so and then re elevate after clearing logan? No i dont think so.

Well, I'd expect by now your answer has been given....but no, and an airplane that "had taken off north of Logan" that later flew directly overhead Logan? High enough to leave a contrail?

We usually do not lower the altitude en-route (however, this has happened, if traffic circumstanced dictate).

You used the word "elevation". though. You might wish to understand that "elevation" is imprecise, in aviation as it relates to an airplane.

We use "elevation" to refer to fixed points on the Earth's surface. In heights above Mean Sea Level (MSL). An airplane in flight is at an "altitude" (also referenced to MSL). Various countries have an "altitude" above which ALL airplanes set their altimeters to a constant, and then it is called a "Flight Level". In the USA, this is above 18,000 feet MSL. In some parts of Europe (say, the UK) this might be 5,000 MSL. It is based on the terrain, and possibility of impacting terrain....since the UK has no high mountains, 5,000 is sufficient.

I know this is possibly arcane info, but it leads to the point that WHEN discussing aviation, and particularly when attempting to make a "case" for "chem"trails, it's a good idea to actually know your facts ABOUT aviation, and the aviation environment.
 
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