UAP Files: “UFOs: Wikipedia, AI, and the Rise of Fake Experts” video and Substack Article

No CGI would be required.
I do wonder, come to think of it, if we have crossed the line where using CGI to add mysterious elements to a video is now the easiest option. At one point, the number of people with access to the tech and ability to use it was low -- tossing tiki torches around or hanging things on strings was easier and more likely. But is that true any more? CGI software is cheap and easy to get these days, and using this sort of technique it is not even necessary to get out of one's chair and venture outside!
 

@flarkey- I've unblocked you on X. It's not a case that I cannot stand by my positions, it's that I don't accept people resorting to name calling referring to me as a female genital cleaning product. I don't think it's unreasonable to have expect some common decency online.

Let's start again?

I was more than happy to be part of Metabunk and contribute my opinions and analysis, but then I dislike the absolute certainty in some of your resolutions when they're based on "probably's" + moderators ability to change titles of threads and even texts of contributors posts. Literally editing text. So I left. And when I started seeing the resolutions based on probability, this really bothered me. Because it's way more complex than that. Secret advanced tech we know multiple countries are working on. Weird drones with unusual signatures. Secret satellites that would add to a datapoint of a light when modelling with Micks software. And that's without any "non-human" objects hinted by decades of intel/military and civilian witnesses. We're still debating the very few FLIR clips provided a decade+ later. So to be so conclusive is incomprehensible.

But, I will say this: to this suggestion that these cases that you've listed have all been debunked, is again that certainty thing.

I believe you're incorrect and here's why:

  1. I didn't analyse Melinda's footage, I simply shared her story and footage. Some suggesting I've claimed they're ET or something? I'm a podcaster. I shared her story and the more interesting visual sighting/experience than what she saw on camera. I didn't analyse her footage. I don't analyse every single case. Many of them I share if they look interesting with my community on UAPF. I'm sent thousands.
  2. Denbigh lights is still unresolved. Mick suggested it was a golf cart. You're suggesting it's an electrical arc because you've found a report of one. But your report doesn't say where it is. And as an electrical engineer (my actual job) and having seen electrical arcs…this doesn't look like one and would have to be half a mile long. That's just silly. It's not that. But I don't know what it is. It's incredibly compelling when you stabilise it.
  3. Is just a guess. Neither of us can know for sure.
  4. Maybe. Again, I didn't analyse it. I get sent thousands every year on Instagram, which has almost a quarter of a million followers and more footage than I can cope with.
  5. Looks like you've had to change the date to resolve it.
  6. Again I didn't analyse it, it was a podcast with a witness who experienced something unusual with his battery draining and footage along with it. My podcast is almost exclusively human focussed, whith some analysis, on occasion.
  7. Cannot be conclusively resolved. I disagree with your analysis on this. It's guess work. Fun seeing the opinions of poster assuming my thoughts that if it isn't conventional, then it's definitely greys from Zeta Reticuli. In over 200 episodes on the podcast I've never said I think they're ET.
  8. You've had to change the time to meet the resolution. That's changing parameters. Maybe, maybe not. Seems again guess work.
  9. Maybe, I didn't analyse it. Again see point 4.
  10. Resolution was that it was the ISS because the ISS was about? Hardly seems conclusive. We've debated this to death before. It's the same argument as the Staffordshire case with Richard Fawcett and Venus. Early on you all thought it was probably a celestial object. Until that last piece of footage arrived which ruled that out. Most cases won't have that last piece of footage and just a rough location and rough date and no time. See ISS argument.
  11. "The Tape". As above. And ad per the screenshots on X. The object to the right of the roof pitch was said to be Venus or at least a celestial object. You've just said on Twitter in the last 24hrs that you "haven't" resolved this. So why is it in your list of resolved cases that UAPF got wrong? I've provided relevant screen captures on Twitter/X to evidence that many of you did believe it was Venus (in particular the object I later provided longer footage for) with references to the time, and/or the roof pitch to the left of screen. Importantly, had this not been a contentious discussion between us, the initial resolution of Venus would have been your resolution. As per ISS discussion above. Simplest answer is "probably" the answer. Occam's Razor etc.
  12. I haven't analysed this. It was my friend Boni the airline pilots experiences of orbs and US aircraft hiding right under his aircraft. Very interesting conversation. And actually Boni doesn't believe it's ET (same as me, contrary to popular belief) he believes much of what he's seeing is secret terrestrial tech. However, the data from the thread seems to be heavily reliant on opinions based on geographical assumptions. I cannot see any certainty there.
  13. I agree this has a rocket signature and I couldn't confirm if it was or wasn't also AI generated and the source ghosted me. I'm not sure if this was because he's in the middle of a war zone and didn't want to give away his location (Ukraine), or because something happened to him. Had I been able to confirm through ImageDetect that it was AI, I wouldn't have shared it. But I couldn't. Sadly he hasn't responded to me since. I was holding out to provide my thoughts until after I got an interview with him and more data behind the scenes. But it never came. The suggestion that you debunked me is the wrong premise to start with. I'm not putting footage out saying it's ET. I hadn't even analysed this case. But it's interesting nonetheless.
  14. As above regarding Starlink. This one may be correct. Again, I haven't analysed it. But I asked you specifically not to identify his airline and as I see it's still there in your thread. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

I've seen many joking that when "UFO People" post videos of UFOs with data like navigation screens and you guys resolve the, its just showing UFO People what to hide next time. Well I don't do that. I share as much data as I possibly can. Why else did I share it. I'm happy with good faith analysis. I may agree, I may disagree with resolutions, but I'll continue to ask for as much data from the source as they're willing to provide and I'll share as much as I can. But we all (you included) have a responsibility with just basic human decency to consider things like their job and putting food on the table. Imagine if he lost his job so you could prove a point? I asked you to remove his airline name. He made no mention to it in our interview and I made no acknowledgment of the airline on the final upload. Common decency. Will you remove now please?
 
As above regarding Starlink. This one may be correct. Again, I haven't analysed it. But I asked you specifically not to identify his airline and as I see it's still there in your thread. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
We didn't identify the airline whomever released the video was happy for the plane id and thus the airline to be known publicly.
 
As above regarding Starlink. This one may be correct. Again, I haven't analysed it. But I asked you specifically not to identify his airline and as I see it's still there in your thread. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
I did initially remove the link that showed what Airline Boni flies for, but when I noticed that the registration of the aircraft was in your video I thought any attempts to hide the airline were pointless. Also googling his name tells anyone what airline he works for. But anyway, I've removed the images from the tread. Thanks for the Twitter unblock. I promise not to be too annoying.

And regarding your responses up above - I guess this wholes thing comes down to how much evidence is sufficient for any person to believe anything. We all have different biases and expectations as to what will convince us. I think that's one reason why I find this topic so fascinating and so engaging. I'm not here to debunk things per se, I'm here to find answers and then convince others of the answers. And whenever (if ever?) the answer is "aliens" I'll work just as hard to convince everyone that they are here.
 

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since "wikipedia" is in the thread title, i figured some might find this interview a bit interesting, the discussion is about bias on wikipedia, consensus vs allowing all voices, which sources are considered acceptable vs blacklisted etc. its only 16 mins and he kinda gives a history of wiki and problems today..so im not sure which bits to quote without being accused of cherry picking.

note: not sure why elon is in thumbnail, i dont recall his name comign up at all when i watched it!

Article:
7,059 views Oct 30, 2025

Wikipedia Co-Founder: Left-Wing Bias on the Site Will Require a Complete Overhaul to Address


Thursday on the RealClearPolitics Podcast: Carl Cannon talks with Larry Sanger - Co-Founder of Wikipedia and Director of the Knowledge Standards Foundation - about his "Nine Theses on Wikipedia," and whether the site can find its way back to neutrality before a competitor steps in


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wDJy_m5Oa8
 
Elon has gone on record recently accusing Wikipedia of bias and calling for it to be replaced.
Given the current administration's insistence that everybody has to agree with the president or else!, when conservatives say that a site needs a "complete overhaul", cold shivers go up and down my spine. Carl Cannon is the executive editor of Real Clear Politics, and as much as he likes to claim that "it is an independent, non-partisan media company that is the trusted source for the best news, analysis and commentary" (their own description of the site), Wikipedia points out its rightward slide:

External Quote:

RealClearPolitics, often referred to as nonpartisan by sources like The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times, emerged as a significant platform during the 2008 elections.[15][16][17] Its founders, aiming to provide ideological diversity, curated political stories, op-eds, news analyses, and editorials to offer readers a balanced view of the political landscape.[18][19] The site's utility was recognized by figures such as Politico's executive editor Jim VandeHei, who called it an essential resource for political enthusiasts.[20] The Chicago Sun-Times in 2012 also acknowledged the site's balanced selection of stories, and BuzzFeed's top editor praised its polling average as highly reliable.[21]

The site has shown a conservative inclination in its content and commentary, as noted by various sources over the years.[22] In early interviews and articles, founders McIntyre and Bevan openly discussed their criticism of mainstream media biases. A 2001 Princeton Alumni Weekly article highlighted their political leanings,[6] and a 2004 Time article described the site's commentary section as "right-leaning."[23] By 2009, some academic texts have described it as run by conservatives while providing a range of opinion pieces. This blend of nonpartisanship and conservative tendencies has shaped its reputation and influence in political discourse.

In November 2020, The New York Times published an article alleging that since 2017, when many of its "straight-news" reporting journalists were laid off, RealClearPolitics showed a pro-Trump turn with donations to its affiliated nonprofit increasing from entities supported by wealthy conservatives. RCP executive editor Carl Cannon disputed the newspaper's allegations of a rightward turn, saying that he had solicited donations from both conservative and liberal donors, without them "buying coverage".[27] Several journalists who talked to The New York Times in 2020 said they never felt any pressure from the site's founders to bias their stories.[26] Cannon stated that RCP regularly publishes perspectives from both liberal and conservative publications, saying that "the simple fact is that the amount of liberal material published in RCP every week dwarfs the annual conservative content in The New York Times".[27] However, in 2016, the final RealClearPolitics national polling average before Election Day showed Hillary Clinton ahead by about 3 points (Clinton 46.8%, Trump 43.6%).[28]

The New York Times also said that "Real Clear became one of the most prominent platforms for elevating unverified and reckless stories about the president's political opponents, through a mix of its own content and articles from across conservative media..." and that for days after the election, "Real Clear Politics gave top billing to stories that reinforced the false narrative that the president could still somehow eke out a win."[26] Cannon responded by highlighting two articles suggesting that "Trump could somehow eke out a win".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealClearPolitics

This article strikes me as the probable cause for his eagerness to "completely overhaul" Wikipedia.
 
Elon has gone on record recently accusing Wikipedia of bias and calling for it to be replaced.
ah. yea this interview guy Sanders mentioned Grokopedia.

Article:
Elon Musk's Grokipedia encyclopedia is now online, challenging volunteer-edited Wikipedia with a new tool that incorporates Grok, the large language model chatbot developed by Musk's artificial intelligence company, xAI.

Musk is positioning Grokipedia as an alternative to Wikipedia, which he called "Wokepedia" in an X post last December.
 
I have suspicions that Wikipedia is biased on some topics as a result of deliberate activity to make it so (they are only suspicions and I won't bore you guys with them) so I was interested in what Larry Sanger might have to say, particularly his 9-point thesis:

But, competing articles? Public voting on articles?
Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopaedia, not just another social media site.
Sanger's suggestions would end Wikipedia's efforts to be an encyclopaedia. It would be a collection of "alternative facts".
Hey, if you don't like the information about Venus being uninhabitable, and Adamski's Venusian scout ship being a hoax based on a lantern lid, if Sanger had his way you could cite different Wikipedia articles saying otherwise.
There are much more important subjects where we know some people are prepared to use unreliable, or just downright false, evidence to promote their views.

Due to its crowd-sourcing model, Wikipedia articles (e.g. on some political issues, where interpretation of meanings/ events/ intentions might be subjective, and other contentious subjects where evidence/ primary sources are limited and/or questionable -this might apply to many things of interest us on Metabunk) are sometimes less than accurate. But I think most users understand this. Perhaps Wikipedia could flag that up more to remind visitors.

But for all its flaws, I'd rather Wikipedia sticks to its current model rather than implement Larry Sanger's "thesis".
 
Public voting on articles?
yea that sounds like a very bad idea!

But for all its flaws, I'd rather Wikipedia sticks to its current model rather than implement Larry Sanger's "thesis".
not all his ideas were bad. the two you listed were, i agree. but if wiki doesn't want to improve, readers can/will just go use elon musk's encyclopedia.
 
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Elon has gone on record recently accusing Wikipedia of bias and calling for it to be replaced.
The fundamental problem with calls like this is the breadth of Wikipedia is much wider than most people realize, especially those who only look for mentions of themself, as Elon probably does. Vast parts of Wikipedia are simply descriptive of plants and animals and historical event of the past. Seeing it as exclusively about the politics of the last few decades is missing the mountain, and only seeing the mole-hill.

There are problems of course, but any replacement that tried to 'unbias' it would inevitably just copy-paste the majority of the content unchanged, because there is so much where no political bias does/could exist.

Anonymity is a problem, and does not have to exist but is probably unavoidable in the 'real world' because of the threat of legal or physical attacks against people who post things other disagree with.

The wikipedias on the US governments classified networks are not anonymous, every post or edit I ever made on them will always have my name attached to them. But those are environments where those who disagree can directly communicate with you and point out issues.
 
But, competing articles? Public voting on articles?

There are problems of course, but any replacement that tried to 'unbias' it would inevitably just copy-paste the majority of the content unchanged, because there is so much where no political bias does/could exist.

Conservapedia exists.
"As of October 2025, Conservapedia has more than 58,000 articles and 24 active users." (wikipedia)
 
Wikipedia not only acknowledges its own shortcomings, but documents them as well.
External Quote:
Since the launch of Wikipedia in 2001, it has faced several controversies. Wikipedia's open-editing model, which allows any user to edit its encyclopedic pages, has led to concerns such as the quality of writing, the amount of vandalism, and the accuracy of information on the project. The media have covered controversial events and scandals related to Wikipedia and its funding organization, the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF). Common subjects of coverage include articles containing false information, public figures, corporations editing articles for which they have a conflict of interest, paid Wikipedia editing and hostile interactions between Wikipedia editors and public figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedia_controversies

This is a very long article, with nearly four hundred sources cited, and also includes a list of associated articles:
External Quote:
 
7 hours ago, UAP commentator (and one time member of this forum) UAP Files just published a "special" episode of their podcast of the same name. It's entitled "UFOs: Wikipedia, AI, and the Rise of Fake Experts". It appears to be a polemic against this forum and West's occasional use of Grok and/or ChatGPT for gathering information while discussing topics on X.

Here is the video:


Source: https://youtu.be/039GcOiTv1c


And here is it's description:



The video was published concurrently with this Substack article:

https://open.substack.com/pub/uapf/p/when-debunkers-become-historians

If this like is any of this guy's other work, it's likely to contain ad hominem, claiming West does things that they themselves actually do, cherry picking….the whole enchilada.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Just seen this. I stand by my message. We're all layman and semi-anonymous forum members shouldn't be used for objective truth with fact checking on X. I didn't think it would be so controversial. After all, it's kind of the Wikipedia ethos.
 
We're all layman and semi-anonymous forum members shouldn't be used for objective truth with fact checking on X
Yeah, that's why the ethos here is "show, don't tell." You'll note we are rather sticklers for detail, and we try to put that detail into posts in an accessible format.

But people are also going to give opinions and best guesses. You should not take that as a claim to objective truth.
 
But people are also going to give opinions and best guesses. You should not take that as a claim to objective truth.
It's called "hypothesizing", and is part of the scientific process.
Metabunk conducts research, Wikipedia does not.
 
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Yeah, that's why the ethos here is "show, don't tell." You'll note we are rather sticklers for detail, and we try to put that detail into posts in an accessible format.

But people are also going to give opinions and best guesses. You should not take that as a claim to objective truth.
I thought it was evident that I didn't take the claims and opinions as objective truth, but that Community Notes does, and by default those reading the CNs do, which is the problem.

CN is problematic because it feeds the LLMs and our younger generation, and even my generation (I'm in my 40s) use useful products to speed up their workflow. If there is a product that helps research and answer their question, they will 100% utilise it. So off to GPT and Grok we go (I've seen you use it, too). And that will become far more normalised in the very near future.

I suspect most of your forum members without experience in electrical power lines used LLMs to check me in the other Denbigh thread in the last couple of days.

And if the answer from the LLM is that the object was Venus, was a street lamp, was a power line sparking, or was Starlink (for example) then people will accept that and move on, despite there being no conclusive evidence it's a power line, Venus, a street lamp, or Starlink. In fact there may even be evidence it's not that. But none of that matters if the CN says it "has been identified as…". Not, "opinion, here, suggests it has been identified as", but "has been identified".

Then it's no longer an opinion. It's a fact. It's very different from Wikipedia.
 
... I suspect most of your forum members without experience in electrical power lines used LLMs to check me in the other Denbigh thread in the last couple of days.

And if the answer from the LLM is that the object was Venus, was a street lamp, was a power line sparking, or was Starlink (for example) then people will accept that and move on, despite there being no conclusive evidence it's a power line, Venus, a street lamp, or Starlink. In fact there may even be evidence it's not that. But none of that matters if the CN says it "has been identified as…". Not, "opinion, here, suggests it has been identified as", but "has been identified".

Then it's no longer an opinion. It's a fact. It's very different from Wikipedia.

A rather curious assumption given that a scientific skepticism is the common trait that keeps long term users on Metabunk. We are here because of our inherent suspicion of easy internet answers.
 
Are we talking about our unevidenced suspicions now?
We're talking about both. Our unevidence and our own evidence (to our own revolving balance of confidence) suspicions.

But the key point is applying that opinion as a fact on the future largest research and "collective truth" platform via a Community Note. Think a Wikipedia edit with a citation from an anonymous forum member, voted up by other anonymous engaged forum members.

Having spoken with Susan Gerbic for 3+ hours a few weeks back, I am genuinely bemused that people are cool with the CN format. It was the complete polar opposite to what she thought was a fair balance credible and accurate store of true information.
 
A rather curious assumption given that a scientific skepticism is the common trait that keeps long term users on Metabunk. We are here because of our inherent suspicion of easy internet answers.
Engaged and passionate, no doubt, but not experts. The Denbigh thread (if used as a CN for example) would have resolved a case as an arching power line using footage and images of high voltage arching power lines in the thread, but referring to a low voltage power line. Had that not been challenged it'd be truth. Not just an opinion in the eyes of the LLM.
 
If there were no challenge to things like the idea that go fast was not a wind speed object at a high altitude then the LLMs might believe that it was low flying object 'hauling ass' etc.

Ultimately though the problem is LLMs and not discussions, if people put stuff in CN and it ends up in grok, your problem is with Elon Musks X platform.
 
If there were no challenge to things like the idea that go fast was not a wind speed object at a high altitude then the LLMs might believe that it was low flying object 'hauling ass' etc.

Ultimately though the problem is LLMs and not discussions, if people put stuff in CN and it ends up in grok, your problem is with Elon Musks X platform.
Yes and no. It sounds like we agree on having skepticism and investigating and having open dialogue. But my point relates to then applying that opinion and analysis as a fact. This might not seem a big deal because you guys believe you're probably the best at analysing things, and the CNs are often Metabunk cited. But what if they started being cited by Sol Foundation. What if they cited UAP Files substack articles. If you posted on X your analysis and I added a CN saying this was incorrect and linking to my opinion/analysis on my Substack?
 
Engaged and passionate, no doubt, but not experts. The Denbigh thread (if used as a CN for example) would have resolved a case as an arching power line using footage and images of high voltage arching power lines in the thread, but referring to a low voltage power line. Had that not been challenged it'd be truth.
But it most probably was an arching on a low-voltage line, so where's the problem? Low voltage line are more prone to flashovers (arcs) than high-voltage lines under voltage spikes. That's what you seem to be constantly forgetting. And surely the line of post https://www.metabunk.org/threads/th...-likely-sparking-powerlines.10546/post-356904 is not high-voltage (high-voltage =~ more than 70kV). At most it's medium-voltage (from 1kV to 70kV), but it's hard to say from the video.

And no, I did not ask an LLM, lol. I'm a (retired) electronics engineer, and I have fought against overvoltages on supply lines for ~40 years (albeit from the user, not from the distribution, side).
 
Engaged and passionate, no doubt, but not experts.
Well, let's think about that a bit.

One of the nice things about crowd sourcing is that, while the crowd is not composed of a solid block of experts, IN the crowd you can find an array of expertise that can be useful. I know very little about electrical engineering and power grids, my sense is that you have some expertise in that area, as do some others here. On the other hand, I am comfortable saying that I have expertise and experience with flying a large selection of different styles and sizes and makes and models of kites. Between us, we know more than either of us knows alone. Others here know a lot about photography (I know how to point a camera and push the button, that's about it) or about computer programming or gathering data available that shows when and where planes or satellites were at a given time. etc. Some folks have the patience to wade through page after page of pictures of party balloons until they find the one that looks exactly like the UFO, which I guess is not expertise strictly defined but is darned useful in trying to show that a UFO that floats along in the breeze like a balloon is, in fact, a balloon!

Pooling what we know, and our skills, and our experience looking at this stuff, we can say "That looks a bit like a satellite flare" and somebody here who knows how to track satellites and when they flare from a given point can check out that hypothesis. If it turns out there is a satellite in the right place at the right time, flaring, that does not absolutely prove that the thing reported was that satellite, I guess, but it comes pretty close, and what with Occam and his razor that explanation would be more likely than "It's aliens!" or even the more general "It's mysterious and unaccountable!" If it looks like a satellite flaring, and there was one there at the time, flaring, then that is likely what it is that and it is not good evidence of anything new and mysterious. (Note that the cases discussed here do not, so far as I have read -- and I've read most of them -- show a case where the witness reported or the video showed the Mysterious UFO AND the flaring satellite that happened to be right there at the same time!)

Of course, it happens that even though it looks like a satellite flare, there does not seem to be one there. So we keep thinking and looking, and new hypotheses are proposed and checked by folks who know something about that area. Sometimes it is even a recognizable kite, if you have an old guy hanging around who knows a lot of obscure and uncommon kites!

Some cases can be sufficiently debunked (it looks a lot like a plane, the flash pattern of the lights looks like what planes do, there was a plane there at that time flying the same path --flight MUA666 from Boston to Miami), but other times the best that can be done is to point out that it looks just like a plane and does not actually do anything planes don't do so it could be explained by it being a plane. I note that the cases with the most data seem to be the ones most thoroughly explained.)

A final note -- as far as I am aware, and please correct me if I am wrong, there are no UFO cases anywhere that have been resolved by showing that the answer was aliens, nor any other new-to-science phenomenon.
 
But it most probably was an arching on a low-voltage line, so where's the problem? Low voltage line are more prone to flashovers (arcs) than high-voltage lines under voltage spikes. That's what you seem to be constantly forgetting. And surely the line of post https://www.metabunk.org/threads/th...-likely-sparking-powerlines.10546/post-356904 is not high-voltage (high-voltage =~ more than 70kV). At most it's medium-voltage (from 1kV to 70kV), but it's hard to say from the video.

And no, I did not ask an LLM, lol. I'm a (retired) electronics engineer, and I have fought against overvoltages on supply lines for ~40 years (albeit from the user, not from the distribution, side).
Lets not forget it was a 3-phase overhead line that has been proposed as the supply at fault here, not a normal domestic single phase LV line.
 
One of the nice things about crowd sourcing is that, while the crowd is not composed of a solid block of experts, IN the crowd you can find an array of expertise that can be useful.
Indeed, and to characterize Metabunk as just a bunch of lay people is to ignore both that mixture of expertise and the many times we have solved cases before the "real experts" get to it.

Starlink is a great example, but my favorite there is the Chilean case, where the Chilean experts STILL seem not to accept what we resolved many years ago.

Then there are other cases, like the Green Triangle, GoFast, or Aguadilla, where they eventually come around.

Here we (try to) present facts, not expert opinions. But when it comes to the more esoteric topics, we often do better than the "experts".
 
Starlink is a great example, but my favorite there is the Chilean case, where the Chilean experts STILL seem not to accept what we resolved many years ago.

Then there are other cases, like the Green Triangle, GoFast, or Aguadilla, where they eventually come around.
Indeed.

It may also be worth pointing out that there are cases like the Turkish UFO videos from Kumburgaz or more recently the Calvine photo where, while members here do not reach a consensus on what is actually in the picture, we show one or more ways the picture/video could have come into existence without having to assume ET or other extraordinary causes. That is not a "full debunk," as no definitive solution has been established in those cases. But if, for example, it can be shown that a given hypothetical video show what is consistent with a satellite flare or a known make and model of LED kite flown at night, and while the evidence is insufficient to prove which of those it might actually be, and nothing in the video suggests thatthese solutions CANNOT be correct, then the video is not useful as proof of ETs, demons, time travelers or anything of that sort as a simpler explanation also covers the data available.

Or so I see it.
 
CN is problematic because it feeds the LLMs and our younger generation
LLMs trawl vast areas of internet content and often use it without acknowledgement and ignoring IP rights. (I dislike them, but they're here).
Vast amounts of pseudoscience, questionable academic papers and opinion, unverified claims and deliberate disinformation also exist on the internet; this material is also exploited by LLMs.

I doubt anyone posting here (as opposed to directly contributing to/ editing articles on Wikipedia) does so with the intent of being cited on Wikipedia/ community notes and so influencing LLMs (although many of us might think there should be more public and media awareness that many extraordinary claims probably have mundane explanations, and some are, well, bunk).

It's not reasonable to ask members on this forum to self-censor*, and not raise issues/ arguments/ evidence that they in good faith believe to be true- often with checkable external evidence to support those viewpoints- just in case they might be wrong and those incorrect viewpoints/ arguments are trawled, without the knowledge or consent of the poster, by LLMs. That would be a chilling effect.
It would be a constraint imposed on this forum because of what we currently think and write that doesn't apply elsewhere.

On the internet you can find vast numbers of forums, blogs, social media threads devoted to promoting extraordinary claims. None of the authors/ promoters of this material seem overly concerned about their output being sampled by LLMs or otherwise being reproduced. Many have low standards for what is considered evidence; some continue to cite disproven evidence and/ or make demonstrably false claims. Few allow dissenting points of view, and contrary theories/ evidence, to be posted and considered- Metabunk does.


*Beyond existing posting, referencing and politeness guidelines.
 
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LLMs trawl vast areas of internet content and often use it without acknowledgement and ignoring IP rights. (I dislike them, but they're here).
Vast amounts of pseudoscience, questionable academic papers and opinion, unverified claims and deliberate disinformation also exist on the internet; this material is also exploited by LLMs.

I doubt anyone posting here (as opposed to directly contributing to/ editing articles on Wikipedia) does so with the intent of being cited on Wikipedia/ community notes and so influencing LLMs (although many of us might think there should be more public and media awareness that many extraordinary claims probably have mundane explanations, and some are, well, bunk).

It's not reasonable to ask members on this forum to self-censor*, and not raise issues/ arguments/ evidence that they in good faith believe to be true- often with checkable external evidence to support those viewpoints- just in case they might be wrong and those incorrect viewpoints/ arguments are trawled, without the knowledge or consent of the poster, by LLMs. That would be a chilling effect.
It would be a constraint imposed on this forum because of what we currently think and write that doesn't apply elsewhere.

On the internet you can find vast numbers of forums, blogs, social media threads devoted to promoting extraordinary claims. None of the authors/ promoters of this material seem overly concerned about their output being sampled by LLMs or otherwise being reproduced. Many have low standards for what is considered evidence; some continue to cite disproven evidence and/ or make demonstrably false claims. Few allow dissenting points of view, and contrary theories/ evidence, to be posted and considered- Metabunk does.


*Beyond existing posting, referencing and politeness guidelines.
I surmise the focus here is the title of the Denbigh thread -- "The Denbigh Lights UFO Analysis [Likely sparking powerlines]" -- with the "Likely" baked in.

But it comes across as "*you guys* shouldn't discuss this topic because other people take your discussions too seriously."
 
I surmise the focus here is the title of the Denbigh thread

TBH I was speaking generally, and didn't have that thread in mind. I did think about another thread discussing Beatriz Villarroel's claims, where a member (not currently posting in this thread, I don't think) implied that as non-experts we shouldn't criticize her work without formally replicating it.
 
where a member (not currently posting in this thread, I don't think) implied that as non-experts we shouldn't criticize her work without formally replicating it.
not sure that is a totally fair interpretation. (dont want to start an off topic discussion about it, just "correcting the record" quick)
 
But it comes across as "*you guys* shouldn't discuss this topic because other people take your discussions too seriously."
Yes. A claim that the big problem with UFOs and similar discussion on the Internet is that too many people are trying to show when reports and claims are identifiable as something mundane would be difficult to take seriously!
 
This might not seem a big deal because you guys believe you're probably the best at analysing things, and the CNs are often Metabunk cited.
We're convincing the Community Notes writers, but not you.
You seem to think this is our problem.
But what if they started being cited by Sol Foundation. What if they cited UAP Files substack articles. If you posted on X your analysis and I added a CN saying this was incorrect and linking to my opinion/analysis on my Substack?
Your Community Note needs to pass muster, i.e. convince a quorum of other CN writers. Whether it does or doesn't is not our problem, either.

I also think that it is mistaken to assume that LLMs have a concept of truth.
 
But it most probably was an arching on a low-voltage line, so where's the problem? Low voltage line are more prone to flashovers (arcs) than high-voltage lines under voltage spikes. That's what you seem to be constantly forgetting. And surely the line of post https://www.metabunk.org/threads/th...-likely-sparking-powerlines.10546/post-356904 is not high-voltage (high-voltage =~ more than 70kV). At most it's medium-voltage (from 1kV to 70kV), but it's hard to say from the video.

And no, I did not ask an LLM, lol. I'm a (retired) electronics engineer, and I have fought against overvoltages on supply lines for ~40 years (albeit from the user, not from the distribution, side).
Then you should know that the probability of what you're saying is probably is zero. 45 meter multi-arching visible 1.4km way for 6-10 mins on a LV line. I don't want to hijack a different thread for this, so I'll leave the specifics of that discussion the other thread.

My point remains even with this argument. As someone who works with this cable for EV and Solar installs, have the qualifications and am not anonymous, I could write an article on my forum (I may just do that) and then add a Community Note under any and all X posts about the subject and then it becomes truth. I don't think you'd be cool with that seeings as
Well, let's think about that a bit.

One of the nice things about crowd sourcing is that, while the crowd is not composed of a solid block of experts, IN the crowd you can find an array of expertise that can be useful. I know very little about electrical engineering and power grids, my sense is that you have some expertise in that area, as do some others here. On the other hand, I am comfortable saying that I have expertise and experience with flying a large selection of different styles and sizes and makes and models of kites. Between us, we know more than either of us knows alone. Others here know a lot about photography (I know how to point a camera and push the button, that's about it) or about computer programming or gathering data available that shows when and where planes or satellites were at a given time. etc. Some folks have the patience to wade through page after page of pictures of party balloons until they find the one that looks exactly like the UFO, which I guess is not expertise strictly defined but is darned useful in trying to show that a UFO that floats along in the breeze like a balloon is, in fact, a balloon!

Pooling what we know, and our skills, and our experience looking at this stuff, we can say "That looks a bit like a satellite flare" and somebody here who knows how to track satellites and when they flare from a given point can check out that hypothesis. If it turns out there is a satellite in the right place at the right time, flaring, that does not absolutely prove that the thing reported was that satellite, I guess, but it comes pretty close, and what with Occam and his razor that explanation would be more likely than "It's aliens!" or even the more general "It's mysterious and unaccountable!" If it looks like a satellite flaring, and there was one there at the time, flaring, then that is likely what it is that and it is not good evidence of anything new and mysterious. (Note that the cases discussed here do not, so far as I have read -- and I've read most of them -- show a case where the witness reported or the video showed the Mysterious UFO AND the flaring satellite that happened to be right there at the same time!)

Of course, it happens that even though it looks like a satellite flare, there does not seem to be one there. So we keep thinking and looking, and new hypotheses are proposed and checked by folks who know something about that area. Sometimes it is even a recognizable kite, if you have an old guy hanging around who knows a lot of obscure and uncommon kites!

Some cases can be sufficiently debunked (it looks a lot like a plane, the flash pattern of the lights looks like what planes do, there was a plane there at that time flying the same path --flight MUA666 from Boston to Miami), but other times the best that can be done is to point out that it looks just like a plane and does not actually do anything planes don't do so it could be explained by it being a plane. I note that the cases with the most data seem to be the ones most thoroughly explained.)

A final note -- as far as I am aware, and please correct me if I am wrong, there are no UFO cases anywhere that have been resolved by showing that the answer was aliens, nor any other new-to-science phenomenon.
I don't disagree with you. Any pool of people will have specialisms and areas of interest and experience. Like a large pub quiz team. I have an Instagram account where I talk with the 250,000 followers (not all, of course m, but many) via DMs. If I have a question on aviation, I'll either DM a fighter pilot, airline pilot, helicopter pilot, or aircraft engineer directly. Or quite often they'll have already DMd me about I case I shared for so added info. I get that more heads are better than one.

But it's not about Metabunk not being useful. It's that Wikipedia argument. Who gets to decide who has the best opinion? At present is suspect it doesn't fuss you all that much if Metabunk is cited in objective truth in the eyes of GPT and Grok via X Community Notes. But I also suspect that if those citations changed to UAP Files and my own analysis of cases (my opinion based on evidence) then your view may shift. "Jimmy debunked the power line theory at this link to Substack".
 
Indeed, and to characterize Metabunk as just a bunch of lay people is to ignore both that mixture of expertise and the many times we have solved cases before the "real experts" get to it.
This is in your opinion. I know the SCU disagree with some of your interpretations. So when does your Community Note get removed and SCUs get added in its place? Your opinion v their opinion. They have several scientists and data. Can you see the difficulty.

I've seen the back and forth with you and MarikvR on X over the Gimbal. It's anything but resolved. Who should get the Community Note citation, you or Marik?
Starlink is a great example, but my favorite there is the Chilean case, where the Chilean experts STILL seem not to accept what we resolved many years ago.

Then there are other cases, like the Green Triangle, GoFast, or Aguadilla, where they eventually come around.

Here we (try to) present facts, not expert opinions. But when it comes to the more esoteric topics, we often do better than the "experts".
 
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