Synchronicity - What's your experience of it?

[deirdre]

wtf?

its good in old age to stretch your brain outside your comfort levels.

ponder on it a bit. add: you can ponder both really, but i meant ponder my waterfall comment and what i was responding to.

 

[Ann K]

says the woman who paints waterfalls.

Non sequitur.

 

[GM4AJK]

its good in old age to stretch your brain outside your comfort levels.

ponder on it a bit. add: you can ponder both really, but i meant ponder my waterfall comment and what i was responding to.

I pondered it for a bit and decided my next best step is to find out what you're smoking, so I can buy some too

 

[deirdre]

I pondered it for a bit

Don't give up so easily. You can get this. (although being stoned would likely help you immerse in the thought flow)

 

[Giddierone]

says the woman who paints waterfalls

Whatever this is about it has no place or value here.

 

[john.phil]

Don't give up so easily. You can get this. (although being stoned would likely help you immerse in the thought flow)

Hopefully not double meaning (being stoned).

About the off-topic riddle: "I gave you a sense of beauty so you can appreciate what I have done"?

 

[deirdre]

Hopefully not double meaning (being stoned).

About the off-topic riddle: "I gave you a sense of beauty so you can appreciate what I have done"?

lol to the first observation.

you got the beauty part right, (but without any God stuff). Beauty is something greater than the finite world. Jung may discuss such things as well... meaning what is beauty? why do we perceive beuaty? it's not tangible ie. part of the finite world. it's subjective like synchronicity. can comfort our souls etc.

 

[deirdre]

Whatever this is about it has no place or value here.

maybe you can be more clear then about how people are discussing your topic "wrong". people gave their examples. people bashed on it for pages stating in various ways that it is just coincidence.

so... what part of the topic do you want us discussing? why we psychologically find meaning in the things we find meaning in? How to design a study (even though a hundred years have passed and men in the field havent thought of a way to design a study).

 

[Dave51c]

meaning what is beauty? why do we perceive beuaty?

If not already aware of it, you might be interested to read about Wabi Sabi. It is not classical western beauty.

Characteristics of wabi-sabi aesthetics and principles include asymmetry, roughness, simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and the appreciation of natural objects and the forces of nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

There are 8 billion people on Earth, and by that 1 in a million chance events occur to 8000 people every day.

Regardless for how population numbers are sliced and diced is synchronicity actually a chance event. Isn't that what we are trying to flesh out. Out of the potential 8 Billion recipients for a synchronistic event how many will actually be 'in a state of mind' to perceive it as such if such a state is required in the first place.

Personally, I don't ever remember anything resembling a synchronistic event before my early teens, but I still remember some that followed later in life. Not suggesting there is meaning to any of that but my brain 'placed a weight' against it in memory once I was aware of the experience of such an event. Also, how many synchronistic events didn't even register as such? Why would they not stand out. Where 'conditions' not right.

I've been fairly neutral in my lack of understanding of this topic - I didn't feel the need to invoke a call to a higher power and preferred to stay in the realm of science/philosophy, but I do find hand waving this topic away as pure woo to be a lazy argument. But acknowledge it's a woo adjacent area that can get pretty out there pretty fast.

How the hell anyone could design a valid study into this is unclear. I often wonder if consciously waiting for a synchronistic event collapses the 'chance' of that happening.

 

[GM4AJK]

Regardless for how population numbers are sliced and diced is synchronicity actually a chance event. Isn't that what we are trying to flesh out.

How the hell anyone could design a valid study into this is unclear.

The point I was trying to make is that we know that many coincidences do happen every day, and occasionally, remarkable coincidences happen:-

In 1992 Jason Pegler, was walking home from work in Dover when he heard a public phone ringing. He picked it up and was startled to hear the voice of a colleague, Sue Hamilton, apologising for disturbing him and asking for advice about how to work the office fax machine. He had great difficulty in persuading her of what had happened - until she looked down at her desk and realised that she had dialled his staff number by mistake. It just happened to be the number of the call box he just happened to be walking past.

The question then becomes, at what point does a simple coincidence turn into a memorable synchronicity event? That conversion (if it is a conversion and not actually a higher power signalling something) takes place in the mind of the observer. Indeed, how would one design/build a study to figure that out? I don't know, but it seems like a challenge to me.

 

[Ann K]

One more example, that I had forgotten about: Years ago a friend once told me about the dream she had the night before, about getting an envelope with a black border, signifying a death announcement. She was not in the habit of telling me her dreams, but this troubled her greatly. A week later she got such an announcement when her father died in Germany, but, knowing it would be an expensive trip if she were to return for the funeral, they had waited until after the funeral to tell her. He had actually died on the night she had the dream.

I opined that it was a coincidence, and the dream was probably a result of her worrying about him due to his advanced age. She agreed (and seemed relieved to have a realistic explanation) but it had impressed her strongly since it was such a solemn occasion. I'm sure that most coincidences are quickly forgotten since they concern mundane events, but this seemed momentous to her because of the subject rather than the timing. This is exactly the kind of thing that suggestible people see as being "caused" in some way.

 

[deirdre]

One more example, that I had forgotten about: Years ago a friend once told me about the dream she had the night before, about getting an envelope with a black border, signifying a death announcement. She was not in the habit of telling me her dreams, but this troubled her greatly. A week later she got such an announcement when her father died in Germany, but, knowing it would be an expensive trip if she were to return for the funeral, they had waited until after the funeral to tell her. He had actually died on the night she had the dream.

I think that might be [labeled] telepathy, not synchronicity. (or precognition if she dreamed it a bit before he died.. depends on time zones i guess)

 

[Ann K]

I think that might be telepathy, not synchronicity. (or precognition if she dreamed it a bit before he died.. depends on time zones i guess)

OK, you "think" that. Now prove that telepathy exists.

 

[deirdre]

The question then becomes, at what point does a simple coincidence turn into a memorable synchronicity event? That conversion (if it is a conversion and not actually a higher power signalling something) takes place in the mind of the observer. Indeed, how would one design/build a study to figure that out? I don't know, but it seems like a challenge to me.

that's why i mentioned that synchronicity happens all the time and doesn't need necessarily to be a memorable event. Jung is a psychiatrist. Ergo his descriptions are in the context of psychiatry (ie meaning).

It would be much easier to design a study (and way less subjective) if you look at it from the non psychiatric point of view. But it would rely on dedicated self reporters to gather data. A good example would be @Charlie Wiser 's experience. I think the way she is calculating her numbers is wrong.. but if she dedicated to keeping a diary and wrote down everytime it happened over say 3 months when taking notes and what specific words were synchronized, i think there's a chance researchers could agree on what math numbers to use to calculate the odds.

To be honest, over decades of hearing synchronicity stories.. her's is the cleanest example i ever heard of. It's an activity she does often. There's no subjectivity.. ie. either the words match or they don't.

It doesnt really match Jungs definition.. theres no "meaning" derived from the participant, and its not really an external event later matching an internal event...but it is something concrete that has a chance of gathering accurate data.

 

[deirdre]

OK, you "think" that. Now prove that telepathy exists.

i didnt say it exists, im saying i dont think that would be an example of synchronicity, i think stories like that are categorized as telepathy.

 

[Slowuptake]

I was a cab driver in Boulder Colorado in the late 90's returning from a 2 am fare to Longmont and picked up a hitch hiker who was journeying to the places his birth parents haunted during their time together. He was going to look for a high school friend enrolled at the university but did not have an address. I took him to the house I was renting and put him up for the night, returned my cab to yard and cycled home. Next day, first fare was the guy my hitch hiker was looking for. I took him to my house, he collected his pal and I never saw them again.

 

[Dave51c]

i didnt say it exists, im saying i dont think that would be an example of synchronicity, i think stories like that are categorized as telepathy.

This is what I find so fascinating - how do we define the difference. Is it based only on time, e.g. separate events that synchronise within a short timebase (a thought of a phone call followed by the phone call within seconds) or a longer timebase such as a sense of loss for a family member followed days/weeks later of the news of the said passing (where there was no pre-knowledge of illness).

1/ Short timebase - we could argue is coincidence and if the impact on the psyche is high we might personally interpret as synchronistic.

2/ Long timebase - we might not initially think of it as coincidence, the emotional impact is likely high but the interpretation is telepathy.

Could it be argued that both are synchronistic events.

My use of the word timebase is coming from an internal model I'm using to try and visualise whatever this may be as the phase difference between short wavelength and long wavelength sinusoidal signals. One is 'quicker' to sync up than the other - for the same rate of change in phase. Yikes, am I suggesting consciousness has an underlying clock! And what is altering the phase shift! Oh, I think I need a cup of tea and a lie down!

I'm just spitballing folks - I know this can be a tough crowd here, go easy!

 

[deirdre]

or a longer timebase such as a sense of loss for a family member followed days/weeks later of the news of the said passing (where there was no pre-knowledge of illness).

i dont think when you learn about the event (ie weeks later) matter. in Annes example he died (the event happened) the same night as her friends dream.

i mean in trying to determine if "time" is a factor. i imagine synchronicity cant be a long time frame between events because the longer the time between the more the "odds" of the event happening are diluted. ?? I'll google it.

add: although the plum pudding story was a long timeframe.. and that was a pretty astounding coincidence. hhmmm...

 

[Todd Feinman]

One more example, that I had forgotten about: Years ago a friend once told me about the dream she had the night before, about getting an envelope with a black border, signifying a death announcement. She was not in the habit of telling me her dreams, but this troubled her greatly. A week later she got such an announcement when her father died in Germany, but, knowing it would be an expensive trip if she were to return for the funeral, they had waited until after the funeral to tell her. He had actually died on the night she had the dream.

I opined that it was a coincidence, and the dream was probably a result of her worrying about him due to his advanced age. She agreed (and seemed relieved to have a realistic explanation) but it had impressed her strongly since it was such a solemn occasion. I'm sure that most coincidences are quickly forgotten since they concern mundane events, but this seemed momentous to her because of the subject rather than the timing. This is exactly the kind of thing that suggestible people see as being "caused" in some way.

Very interesting example of a possible precognitive dream. I think there might be a connection between precognition and synchronicities, if they exist.
I didn't mention it before because technically it was a precognitive dream, but my mother had a very similar type of dream that she had when she was younger. She was attending a girls' school in Canyonville, Oregon (early '60s?) and she had a dream that a girl would come pounding on the school door in the rainy night who had been raped. The next night it happened.
Google AI brings up some interesting ideas if you prompt it with:
closed time loop synchronicity.
Sheldrake, anyone?
Precognition is spooky synchronicity at a distance? Eh? It's wafer thin…