Swedish Politician Pernilla Hagberg raises "chemtrail" issue in parliament

U

Unregistered

Guest
So much time, effort and money being wasted on something that doesn't exist. Get real, everyone!
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
On Twitter, this story is transforming into an "admission" by a Swedish politician that the CIA have been spraying the country.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What's doubly baffling are the people who say "I don't buy the official story", and claim that the official story is that chemtrails are geoengineering, but that's all a cover-up.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
I thought it was interesting to see that Mick's post #3 on this thread is featured (as a video from a handheld camera on a computer screen) for this chemtrails video, urging support for Ms. Hagberg (I suppose because it provided a translated version of the story):


Naturally, the filmer did not scroll down to see any further to the discussion of the post.
 
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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
So who is this Pernilla Hagberg anyway? Can't see that name on the Swedish Green party's site http://www.mp.se/templates/Mct_177.aspx?number=209399, and why does she have an @yahoo.com address and not an @mp.se?

You have a point there. It has been very common for chemtrails folk to exagerrate their qualifications. I do find her mentioned as a "Leader", not sure of the translation, but the word in Swedish is "Gruppledare".
see:
http://www.mp.se/templates/Mct_177.aspx?number=237035

google translates "Member of Parliament" as "riksdagsledamot".

She is probably just a local leader, not an MP.
 

Steve Funk

Senior Member.
So who is this Pernilla Hagberg anyway?

Maybe the title "group leader" is equivalent to precinct committee chairman, a volunteer working mainly on voter registration and get out the vote. In the first 11 pages of a google search, I didn't find any other references to her than the chemtrails remarks. The green party in Sweden only has 25 members of parliement.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
I'm seeing this story pop up on a lot of chemtrail facebook pages under the headline "Swedish official admits chemtrails are real" or similar. The articles usually then go on to describe her as the Swedish Green Party leader. I've been pointing out the errors but no one seems to be taking any notice, I just get blocked from more and more pages. :rolleyes:
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
I'm seeing this story pop up on a lot of chemtrail facebook pages under the headline "Swedish official admits chemtrails are real" or similar. The articles usually then go on to describe her as the Swedish Green Party leader. I've been pointing out the errors but no one seems to be taking any notice, I just get blocked from more and more pages. :rolleyes:


Translating to twitter for the last two days under the same headline.I've been ribbing anybody that's spreading it about embellishment since I saw it.

Really need to isolate the source blogs,rather than attacking after it spreads in my case.
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
She's doing well for herself. If Google translate has it right she's now a Swedish MEP!
Uhm, no.

The Google translation may be correct, but the source (Kopp Verlag) is a notorious company which offers hardly anything but bunk:
http://psiram.com/ge/index.php/Kopp_Verlag (http://archive.today/wqHAp)
(German)

The page you linked quotes the Swedish paper "Katrineholms-Kuriren". In the original article there is no hint of her being a MEP:
http://kkuriren.se/nyheter/katrineholm/1.1556640 (http://archive.today/lHmo7)

On a profile page with source links, her status is member of city council of "Vingåker":
http://valpejl.se/politiker/14766/Pernilla_Hagberg (http://archive.today/LkGOt)

Vingåker had a population of 4282 in 2010:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vingåker

Not exactly earth-shattering.
 
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cloudspotter

Senior Member.
Uhm, no.

The Google translation may be correct, but the source (Kopp Verlag) is a notorious company which offers hardly anything but bunk:
http://psiram.com/ge/index.php/Kopp_Verlag
(German)

The page you linked quotes the Swedish paper "Katrineholms-Kuriren". In the original article there is no hint of her being a MEP:
http://kkuriren.se/nyheter/katrineholm/1.1556640

On a profile page with source links, her status is member of city council of "Vingåker":
http://valpejl.se/politiker/14766/Pernilla_Hagberg

Vingåker had a population of 4282 in 2010:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vingåker

Not exactly earth-shattering.

Yeah I know she isn't. ;)

That was a link I came across on a chemtrail facebook page. I asked the poster if they'd checked who Pernilla was and surprisingly the answer came back no. Still, makes a change from all the other articles listing her as the Swedish Green Party Leader.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
The people misattributing her credentials has become an item:


If you hear her speak on the subject, despite the language difficulties, she hasn't a clue about anythig except what she heard on chemmie websites:
 

Danny55

Senior Member.
I think the woman in the video was behind the "Hastings Against Chemtrails" facebook page. She closed the page after the "Big Download Day For Chemtrails" had only 42 out of 1000 people downloading a song about chemtrails.
 

jevest

New Member
You debunker's and your reason for do so are fallacious, so full of crap.

Pernilla is right. She needs to call for an inspection of the suspected planes that spray that crap!!! Why would a person take the time to look up this subject to just try and discredit it. The evidence is overwhelming. So many biologist and environmental scientists on top of this for a long time. Just the cowards in the government afraid to come clean on the criminals doing the spraying. We have strong circumstantial evidence as to that.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
You debunker's and your reason for do so are fallacious, so full of crap.

Pernilla is right. She needs to call for an inspection of the suspected planes that spray that crap!!! Why would a person take the time to look up this subject to just try and discredit it. The evidence is overwhelming. So many biologist and environmental scientists on top of this for a long time. Just the cowards in the government afraid to come clean on the criminals doing the spraying. We have strong circumstantial evidence as to that.

Have a look around this forum and the related site www.contrailscience.com

The evidence is absolutely NOT overwhelming, it's non-existent.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
You debunker's and your reason for do so are fallacious, so full of crap.

Pernilla is right. She needs to call for an inspection of the suspected planes that spray that crap!!! Why would a person take the time to look up this subject to just try and discredit it. The evidence is overwhelming. So many biologist and environmental scientists on top of this for a long time. Just the cowards in the government afraid to come clean on the criminals doing the spraying. We have strong circumstantial evidence as to that.

Most articles are claiming that she's the Swedish Green Party leader or even an MEP. If they can't even get that level of information right then how can we take any of it seriously?
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
Pernilla is right. She needs to call for an inspection of the suspected planes that spray that crap!!!

Airplanes are being checked regular, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance_checks

A C-Ceck for example every 18 Months covers the whole plane. A D-Check is a complete demontage of the whole Airplane.

Thousands of Workers making these Checks all over the World. Nobody of them found a "secret Spraying-device"
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
She needs to call for an inspection of the suspected planes that spray that crap!!!
Why do you request an inspection if you are already sure that 'crap' is sprayed? How would you know that? Has anyone taken a sample yet?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Airplanes are being checked regular, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance_checks

A C-Ceck for example every 18 Months covers the whole plane. A D-Check is a complete demontage of the whole Airplane.

Thousands of Workers making these Checks all over the World. Nobody of them found a "secret Spraying-device"

and at lesser intervals - IIRC on Boeing 737's a "B" check was about every 3 months, and an "A" check every month.

Plus EVERY FLIGHT someone walks around the a/c to see if there has been any un-noticed damage - often bot ha pilot and a mechanic will do so.

And these checks can be "equalised" to much smaller overnigh checks - when I was planning maintenance on DHC-8 and BAe-146 aircraft all the scheduled maintnenace up to "C" check intervals was split into packwages small enough to be carried out over night. these were carried out every 100 hours on the DHC-8's, and every 100 flights on the BAe's.

and in between scheduled maintenance you have defect rectification - anythign that goes wrong - literally right down to light bulbs not working - has to be annotated and fixed eventually - some things have to be fixed before further flight - other things are of less immediaet safety concern and can be left up to 3, 10 or 30 days...and if they are not of any safety concern they can be left "until convenient" - but all of them are recordedas defects in whatever system the maintenance organisation is using.

Sitting alongside these maintenance requirements is the documentation.

An illustrated parts manual - IPM - covering the whole a/c, almost always using the ATA 100 chapter and section numbering system (there is no number allocated for "supersecret spray stuff") - for an aircraft the size of the 737 this can be 6-8 feet of shelf space if a paper version.

And the Maintenance Manual - evey check required, all the materials allowed to be used, all the specialised equipment required, all the instructions on how to replace parts - and all following the same ATA numbering system - so if you have a procedure for something - say 25-60-08-123, then you can look up the parts at that reference in the IPM, and the manitenance proceures under that number in the AMM (BTW 25-60-08 is Equipment and Furnishing (25) Emergency equipment (-60) Escape rope (-08) and something I made up (-123))

There is the Structural Repair Manual that tells you how large dents can be for continued flight and how to fix them. The Despatch Deviations Guide - what can be missing or inoperable without stopping flight and any conditions that apply to allow flight to continue. The Weight and Balance Manual - if there is anything loaded on the a/c then this tells you how much a given weight at a given location will affect the weight and balance - baggage, passengers, fuel, oil, potable water, empty and full toilets, etc - oh and aircraft modifications will carry a change to the aircraft balance data where required too, so the datum point for each aircraft is uniquely recorded.

then there are the overhaul manuals that are kept in appropriate workshops rather than the hangers..

And so on and so forth.

Just a bit of the picture of the paper war that accompanies commercial aviation.

I remember when an airline I worked for finally sent a couple of old B737-100's to "the desert", the paper maintenance records for each aircraft were about 4-5 feet high across a standard wooden pallet.
 

Fred259

New Member
Yeah, that's the way it goes. "Discussion" always becomes "admission".

Hence any government discussion papers on geoengineering are re-framed as the government admitting to geoengineering being carried out for decades.

Any "politician" even mentioning chemtrails is taken as an official admission of the whole thing.

And then even Bill Gates "admits" chemtrails:
http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/bill-gates-admits-to-chemtrails.html

Indeed Mick... however always keep in the back of your minds that thousands read these pages and make no comment. They arrive confused and bemused and go away feeling a lot happier and at peace. So, that’s a good thing isn’t it.

On a much more serious note... I have been in Helsinki for much of the week and when I noticed the image below I thought of you all.....

Can someone help... are these real clouds or what? Please don’t tell me this guy is at it as well!

http://news.finnaircargo.com/article/santa-s-flight-crew-licence



347_Santa-flies_580x400.jpg
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Contrails do not spread out as a normal occurance, that is disinformation. Contrails require very specific conditions in order to occur because it is ice crystals formed from water vapor in extremely cold conditions, -40 deg. F and they dissapear quickly because the sun warms the crystals or they dissapear a little more slowly in cloud cover but do not spread out in sheets as a normal occurance nor last hours in the sky.

You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such false information that concerns people's health for your own wallet. You do get paid as a shill don't you?
YES those are normal aircraft. That video shows perfectly normal persistent contrails and spreading contrails. The atmospheric physics behind this normal spreading effect has been well understood by scientists for many decades .
Peter Kuhn," Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget" published 1970.
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences Volume 27, Issue 6 (September 1970)


http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0469(1970)027<0937:AOOCEO>2.0.CO;2
http://cires.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf

http://elib.dlr.de/9238/1/jgr-ice.pdf

Are you fully familiar with those papers I just linked to?
I suspect you are not intimately familiar with such information which is common knowledge to atmospheric scientists and aviation experts and that is exactly why you seem to think there is something strange.

If a plane is approaching an airport it will tend to be at low altitude. Contrails mostly form at high altitude from planes at cruising altitudes on their way somewhere else.
Many planes fly enroute paths high above airports but never land at them. People unfamiliar with aviation may also find this strange.
If a person is familiar with aviation they are likely to know that airliners use radio navigation beacons and so may fly over airports with beacons but never land at them.
If a person is knowledgeable they will know such things are normal. If they are not knowledgeable they may find such things strange.
Your comment suggests you are not familiar with the basic characteristics of the contrail formation and general aviation.

Contrails tend to form at higher altitudes where the temperature is very cold rather than low altitudes due to the phenomena known as "lapse rate". Do you understand what lapse rate is?
Mick's site contrailscience.com explains the many aspects of the the physics of contrail appearance in great detail.

If the planes are taking off from or landing at an airport then they will most likely be too low to form engine contrails.

Most flying planes are NOT near an airport. For many aircraft, an airport is only close to it at the very beginning or end of the plane's journey.
Your comment is similar to saying that a car driving at speed along a dirt road shouldn't be leaving a large dust trail because it isn't near its driveway or garage.
It would only be near its garage at the beginning or end of its journey and only when it has slowed down to very low speed and far less likely to kick up a large dust trail.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
[I notice that you don't present any FACTS, but you are quick to insult.

Here is one about normal contrails persisting and spreading

"The difference is because a contrail freezes.

It’s really that simple. Contrails form at -40 degrees Fahrenheit (which is also -40 Celsius), or colder. At that temperature the tiny drops of condensed water will instantly freeze. Once frozen they can not evaporate. They also can’t melt, as it’s -40. They can however fade away through a process known as “sublimation” – where a solid turns into a gas.

You’ve seen sublimation before. Dry Ice is frozen carbon dioxide. It does not melt, it just sublimes directly into the gas. If you take a bit of dry ice, and just leave it in the sun, it will just kind of fade away. That’s what happens to the ice in a contrail.

Ice will only sublime if the humidity (at that altitude) is lower than around 60% to 70%. So if it’s a bit higher then the contrail can last for a long time, just like clouds do sometimes. If the humidity is low, then the sublimation happens very fast, and the contrail only lasts a minute or so. If the humidity is high (above 70%) then you get reverse sublimation (also called desublimation, accretion or deposition, where water vapor turns directly to ice, but only when in contact with ice), and even more ice will form on the frozen condensation, causing the trail to spread out."


http://contrailscience.com/
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I learned something as a child that applies to many of the folks that claim that 'contrails had never spread in the past'. Most folks don't really pay attention to their environment.

I learned this when I was maybe 5 or 6. I was visiting with my cousins (both older by several years) and we took a walk up their street. I spotted an interesting tree and pointed it out to them (I don't remember what was interesting about it). When we got back, one of them was telling their mom about the tree we saw and the remarked that 'they had never noticed it'.

We see the things we are interested in. I had a friend that really loved cats, and when one was riding with her, she would notice cats, meanwhile I would notice dogs. I had another friend that loved fishing and while driving across a lake, he noticed a large bass jump out of the water.

I am sure that they had not 'seen' contrails that spread before. We are fairly poor reporters of our environment.

When we were considering buying our Windstar van, I remarked to my hubby that I had not seen a lot of them. He said he had. After we bought it, I saw a lot of Windstar vans. A good test of this to ask yourself, how many red trucks did you see on your drive to work, then count how many you see on the way home. It will seem like a lot of folks bought red trucks while you were at work.

It seems that folks don't want to accept that they don't see everything.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Ive seen persistent contrails very very low, lasting for hours, spreading out, on a warm summer evening.
these were not ice crystals, as the planes were coming in very low, to land at a nearby military base. [brize]

'A hybrid contrail is formed in a narrow range of atmospheric conditions, specifically with temperature below -40F'


Just yesterday through my binoculars, I saw persistent 'contrails' coming not from the engines, but from the tail section. as I often do
of course, that doesnt make sense, unless is was -40F.

I see them every day, skirting the cloud systems. remarkable that these planes, purely by co-incidence, make these formations, and usually only around
existing cloud systems, as if they were seeding them. Of course, only the Russians and Chinese do that sort of thing.
It's not as if experiments are/were carried on from Porton Down or such places - never! Well, almost never.

I see many consecutive [and sometimes parallel] planes at the same altitude, every day, one will be emitting persistent contrails, the others will not.
I have been just observing these odd formations for years now, as I work outside all the time.
I dont know what they are, but they are not normal.

I am not into ridiculous and insane websites, either arch skeptic or arch new age. neither are helpful, both are full of people who know it all.
The 'chemtrail' fear proponents are incredibly annoying, as are the 'its just ice crystals and its not possible anyway, you conspiracy madman, go and look at my debunking website' crowd.

The fact remains that what I see daily in the sky is very strange, and no explanation so far has settled the issue for me and my open, rational mind.

Whatever the cause, these things are banking up and blocking out the sun and the clear sky, and therefore they annoy me.
Observed over time, these things are clearly not good for the clarity of the sky, and, as a lover of nature and so forth, and an avid photographer of the sky since a yong age, I have indeed been looking up and observing the sky all my life, and they have changed what you are able to see.
Therefore, either the atmosphere over England has changed, or somthing on the planes has changed. . .or, of course, my lying eyes decieve me, and my personal testimony and experience of looking up and enjoying cloud formations is invalid, they were there all along, and I should learn to mistrust myself.
After all, some people are unreliable, aren't they.

The best time in recent years was when the Icelandic volcano dust grounded all aircraft, for no apparent rational reason. There was absolutely no air pollution in the skies.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
here are some links where the UK government has admitted to spraying chemicals.

why‏

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
here are some links where the UK government has admitted to spraying chemicals.

why‏



They were dispersement test, done with chemicals that were thought to be harmless. They did not create trails.

People spray chemicals all the time in things like crop dusting, mosquito abatement, and fire-fighting. That's not chemtrails unless you are being pedantic.
 
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