Ron James UFO crashed UFO pictures

We are also embarrassed and ashamed at the sheer nastiness of some people who clearly have no problem spewing venom from the safety of their keyboards.
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IMO, this is a rationalization. A self-serving rhetorical trick. He's devaluing the criticism and patting himself on the back in a what a good boy am I, look at the unmelted butter in my mouth fashion.

When you seriously and solemnly present a photo which is intuitively phony, you deserve a negative reaction. Especially when it's being used to tease a for profit project.
 
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External Quote:

...in the sheer nastiness of some individuals, we also have a pretty good example of why the aliens are not talking to us.
That'll be it. Extraterrestrials are monitoring Reddit, Metabunk or whatever in near-real-time, meaning they've travelled light years to get here (or at least within a light-day or two of here), but they're so appalled by people giving Ron James a hard time on the internet that they've called off making contact with Homo sapiens. :rolleyes: -Maybe Ron's taking himself a bit too seriously.

(In fairness to Ron, whatever his mistakes, he doesn't deserve to be trolled or abused online.)

Calter said:
The part where he does directly address the idea of it being a diorama/having toy soldiers is this bit at 3:20
External Quote:
We considered that and we would still consider it, but we haven't found anything that definitively proves it
Click to expand...

We have this photo (I've cropped it & added arrows) of Mr. James with his photo,

rj.PNG


-it's clearly at the very least a similar picture to the B&W picture posted by @Calter in the OP
(in passing, additional thanks to Calter, this has been fun)

1719272954050.png



Three figures are visible- I think it's likely they would be visible in the photo James holds (indicated by arrows).

So it seems a bit disingenuous for Ron to now say

External Quote:
The presence of a third matching individual in another version of this shot concurs, in my opinion, that this is indeed a diorama constructed using that kit, which we found out is "German Soldiers at Rest" from 1984.
Posted by @MonkeySage here.

Ron James' earlier reference to the model theory explanation, "...we haven't found anything that definitively proves it" implies that it is the role of sceptics to prove that his photo is a hoax. But it is James (and perhaps by extension MUFON) who are presenting it as possible evidence of a crashed alien spacecraft. It is for them to find evidence that substantiates their claim, not just disseminate dross and say "Prove it's not aliens!"
And they failed to give their photo even a cursory critical examination.

Why are 1950's US troops apparently wearing jackboots and Stahlhelms? The picture quality is poor, and details are ambiguous, but James / MUFON should have at least asked themselves, "is the picture showing what we would expect to see regarding US military personnel?".
"In images of real troops guarding items of strategic interest, or assessing possibly dangerous vehicles/ objects, do we see men sat on camp chairs facing away from the item in question?"

They failed to assess the relative likelihoods: Whatever James' / MUFON's beliefs, there aren't any confirmed photos of crashed alien spacecraft.
Agencies of the United States government have made it clear that they don't possess any alien tech, and none has ever been recovered in the USA (or anywhere else) that they know of, and they don't know if extraterrestrial life exists.
We have no demonstrable evidence of any form of extraterrestrial life anywhere yet.
But there are pictures of loads of model dioramas on the internet featuring UFOs. (Just do an image search).

Someone- possibly a child or teenager- makes a diorama with Tamiya's "German Soldiers At Rest", released in 1984 and still marketed, with something about 1 foot diameter as a flying saucer, all on a base probably less than 18" per side.

(My very rough-and ready size estimates, done while this topic was still hot; click to enlarge if interested)
1719272954050 (1).png


-And because of an indistinct photo of this piece of model-making Mr James/ MUFON share the possibility with millions of Americans, and others overseas, that their government (and/ or military) has been lying for decades.
And that intelligent extraterrestrial life has visited Earth in the recent past.

Frankly, dreadfully weak evidence, from the outset, for such incredibly significant (if implied) claims.
Maybe Mr James / MUFON can learn something from this.

They don't deserve to be trolled; they do deserve to be embarrassed if they really think they are helping uncover "the truth".
 
It's reasonable to assume that this public domain photo has been bootlegged over and over. There must be copies of copies of copies.

This display copy is in a frame. The glass may be tinted. The print may be tinted. The blue tint may at least be partially due to preferential absorption of long-wavelength (reddish) light... Who knows?
1719273341990.png


I wonder what you really get when you fork over your sawbuck. A photographic print? At that price, I doubt it. Or do you get an ordinary printer copy of a JPEG file that started life as a scan from a book? Or a scan of a photographic print that's a copy of a copy?

I also wonder how many people buy this from honest wonder, or as an ironic gesture the way they'd buy a postcard of a giant jackalope from a giftshop in Yellowstone Park. Or maybe in ironic tribute to Dale Gribble...
 
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John J. said:
And because of an indistinct photo of this piece of model-making Mr James/ MUFON share the possibility with millions of Americans, and others overseas, that their government (and/ or military) has been lying for decades.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Ron James would call this "nasty" if the shoe was on the other foot?

John J. said:
That'll be it. Extraterrestrials are monitoring Reddit, Metabunk or whatever in near-real-time, meaning they've travelled light years to get here (or at least within a light-day or two of here), but they're so appalled by people giving Ron James a hard time on the internet that they've called off making contact with Homo sapiens. :rolleyes: -Maybe Ron's taking himself a bit too seriously.
Click to expand...
When I first saw his remark, I thought, "he's left the high road here, lashing out like that".
But the remark actually does betray a messianic view of aliens, and the idea that everyone must abide by the divine law for redemption to occur.
 
Z.W. Wolf said:
When you seriously and solemnly present a photo which is intuitively phony, you deserve a negative reaction. Especially when it's being used to tease a for profit project.
Click to expand...
Note that even the statement that Greenwald reproduced is advertising their symposium and his film.
And that he's "embarrassed and ashamed" not at his misrepresenting the photograph, but at the people calling him out for it (and the profiteering).
If you were an extraterrestrial, would you want Ron James to sell a film about you? ;)
 
The two instances we have of this photo vary in detail. Without a better example I'm not going into detail... but what I intuitively see here is not a diorama but a pre-photoshop cut and paste composite with several layers.

To give an example of what I mean. here's Terry Gilliam showing how things are cut out and pasted.

 
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Ann K said:
Unfortunately, in the sheer nastiness of some individuals, we also have a pretty good example of why the aliens are not talking to us.
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Ron is fessing up because he's been caught, and it wasn't his group that did the work; it was the "nasty" people who actually brought some facts, the nerve of them! But he still sticks in a nonsense statement like that at the end of his confession, so I'm going to assume he doesn't really want to be taken seriously in his search for "truth".
Click to expand...
Is he implicitly calling all the people in the UFO community who claim that they have had contact with aliens liars?
He built his castle on the sand. Then the rains came. What does he want, sympathy? And what's the fact that he entered into a dodgy deal with someone over a previous movie got to do with the price of eggs in china, as it sounds like he's fishing for more sympathy?

I can't say I'd heard of that previous documentary. (I've just started watching it now.)
External Quote:
This is the only UFO documentary ever mentioned in a congressional hearing by name.
-- http://mufontelevision.com/atinsider/

So the people you mention are happy to mention you? That just makes you part of the mutual pat-on-the-back society which so many people have criticised for being nothing apart from a mutual-pat-on-the-back society. If they're grifters, and you're shilling for them, then you're also a grifter, and they've just shilled for you.

External Quote:
The US Government and private industries are in possession of non-human technology. They are engaged in programs to reverse engineer the technology and more.

The story is true.
So it's going to just be the same old believer fare, unsubstantiated factual claims presented uncritically?

Priors suitably updated.
 
FatPhil said:
I can't say I'd heard of that previous documentary. (I've just started watching it now.)
Click to expand...
From which I quote:
External Quote:
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:14,058
Chris Mellon continues to work quietly behind the scenes
Yet:
External Quote:
Mellon assisted in production and worked with former Pentagon Director of AATIP, Luis Elizondo as a cast member for the cable television network History that distributes the shows series Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation.[13]
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Mellon

So that's "behind the scenes" as in "in front of and behind the camera".

It was terrible - exactly as terrible as I was expecting - I gave it 2/10 on IMDB as the production values aren't /that/ bad, even if they are beyond cheesy. I'm just glad I managed to not put my foot through my monitor for the whole 90 minutes.
 
As a small aside, what immediately made me think miniature model is the shallow depth of field. If this were a real, life-sized scene then you'd expect the soldiers, the UFO and the trees to be in focus but in this case it looks like the camera focussed only on the trees and the rear part of the saucer, with the objects in front and behind being out of focus and slightly blurred.
That's a hallmark of close-up photography:
1.jpg
 
It's be nice to know what made them blind to the pretty obvious.
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I think that "debunking" a case can be approached by asking "Could this be real" and "Could this be fake", and many believers approach new data by just asking "Could this be real". Sticking strictly to either thinking is bound to make people make mistakes and not notice things that in hindsight would be obvious.

So, they heard a story about a squadron of jets used in a civil defense airwing in the 50s, their research showed there was indeed a squadron of jets at the time and location given, it also showed there were indeed stories about UFOs getting shot down by jets and apparently even project Blue Book has a case that could be a match. They got a picture of something that was meant to have happened in Oregon and they confirmed the trees look like what you would expect, etc.

I don't think they ever approached the case as "if this were fake, what's off about this", which is the thinking people that noticed the soldiers look like toys had.
 
Which is a bit of big blind spot given the number of fakes, hoaxes and prosaic explanations for UFO photos and videos is much larger than the 0 that are known to be real (insert whatever mental gymnastics you prefer as to whatever real means to you with regards to UFOs.)
 
Ron James showed a new picture that they have

Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1806331580195234043


So, Michael Schratt looked at this image with me, he says that these little platforms this thing is on is consistent with the kind of platforms that the military would have used as such time to support such a structure
Click to expand...
So anyways, there it is, this can be round two, let's get you guys working on it, I'm not reporting that this is anything, so, don't shoot the messenger
Click to expand...

1719510329783.png


I'm trying really hard here, and I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.
 
Agreed about the miniature feel the picture from @Calter #53 has.
Also, what is going on in the picture? Why is there a strong light-dark difference? Is this real or from any processing?
 
Duke said:
That looks more like a still taken from one of Gerry Anderson's "supermarionation" puppet series from the 60s/70s.
Click to expand...
jdog said:
That figure on the right gives it really Gerry Anderson Thunderbirds vibes.
Click to expand...
Gerry Anderson DID do a UFO series, a live action series that I watched some of many years ago. The UFOs from that series do not match this one, though, unless there was an episode with some atypical UFO being captured...

Capture.JPG
ufo-saucer5.jpg
ufo-bts6.jpg
 
Just noticed this, been tying knots on some kite projects today so it leaped out at me:
Capture.JPG

That does not look like a full-sized rope rigged up in a hanger, it looks like some string threaded through a hole in whatever that arm is, with a stopper-knot tied in the end.

Capture2.JPG
 
Reported as a disabled "space cruiser" in Culver California, 1956. C-57D seems to be a government code name. It was later able to take off on its own power. So, Michael Schratt looked at this image with me, he says that these little platforms this thing is on is consistent with the kind of platforms that the military would have used as such time to support such a structure

So anyways, there it is, this can be round three, let's get you guys working on it, I'm not reporting that this is anything, so, don't shoot the messenger.


5.jpg
 
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Best I can do, to clean up the image of the person. To me it looks like a walking female figure in a red dress, carrying something of another color - a bunch of flowers in each hand, perhaps? OK, model makers, do your best model-fu with this.
IMG_2607.jpeg
 
MyMatesBrainwashed said:
It's be nice to know what made them blind to the pretty obvious.
Click to expand...
Publicity. A movie to tout. A position of importance among his fellow believers. But I think the most significant factor is a quasi-religious belief that aliens are here to be seen and contacted, and that his group is destined to do the contacting. If that's what a person really wants to believe, he is unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. The attitude is "the aliens won't talk to us if you scare them off", and a grudging admission that his favorite photo is a fake is followed immediately "but see, how about this one?"
 
Calter said:
I'm trying really hard here, and I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.
Click to expand...

I absolutely can't see anything but dominoes! In fact, exactly the pieces I should be playing with in the pub right now. I will have to recreate that part of the scene tomorrow.

On the doll, the shoulders absolutely say "jointed" to me. And not jointed in a nice organic way with squidgy pliable flesh and muscle between upper arm and chest. Jointed in a "needs to stick out just a little bit more than is natural in order to be dressable and get the full range of orientations because there's absolutely no give in the plastic" way.

And why's the scene lit that way? Everything about the lighting of that scene says "not a real room" - things that should be illuminated are dark, things that should not be illuminated are brightly lit - there's even a specular reflection on the underside of the craft, that makes no sense at all. It's lit from over the cameraman's right shoulder. It's a 3-sided cardboard box, I bet you. With no top, obviously, as the shiny things on the right are showing it's lighter up there than in the shadow they're sitting in, yet it's not light enough to actually illuminate the room - therefore no roof, no lights, only radiosity.

So exactly how much "looking" did these experts actually do? "don't shoot the messenger", eh? /me scrambles the B52...
 
Z.W. Wolf said:
Reported as a disabled "space cruiser" in Culver California, 1956. C-57D seems to be a government code name. It was later able to take off on its own power. So, Michael Schratt looked at this image with me, he says that these little platforms this thing is on is consistent with the kind of platforms that the military would have used as such time to support such a structure
Click to expand...
I'm confused, where does the reference to C-57D come from? Is it from Ron James, or is it your proposed identification of the model, or something else?

I'm not seeing the proportions of the Forbidden Planet cruiser in the image James posted at all.
1719510329783.png
c57d.jpg

Unless it is some sort of fan build or something?
 
JMartJr said:
I'm confused, where does the reference to C-57D come from? Is it from Ron James, or is it your proposed identification of the model, or something else?

I'm not seeing the proportions of the Forbidden Planet cruiser in the image James posted at all.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure they are just making a joke, mocking the way Ron presented this picture that looks ridiculous, by presenting a movie poster in a similar way.
 
Calter said:
I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.
Click to expand...

Agree. Unless it's a quirk of ET technology that they can only land on giant mah-jong tiles/ white plastic dominoes.

There are loads of examples of UFO-related dioramas online, posted by modellers showing their skills or just for their own/ their friend's entertainment, just like other hobbyists document their pastimes. (Click to enlarge).

d1.jpeg d2.jpg d3.jpg d4.jpg d5.jpg
d6.jpg d7.jpg d8.jpg d9.jpg d10.jpg

Can't help but feel that for a couple of these, if someone took a narrow focus photo from the right angle and then suitably reduced the picture quality, they'd have "possible evidence" of the most momentous event in recent history for Ron James and MUFON to be willingly taken in by study in an impartial and scientific investigation.

We were lucky that the figures used in James' (OP) photo appear to have been largely "built from the box"; many modelmakers are well-practiced at converting shop-bought figures into original poses.

Plastic limbs can be straightened or bent with careful heating and cooling, or substituted with a corresponding part from another figure; careful filing and use of Green Stuff-type modelling putty allows joins to be imperceptible. Heads/ headgear are often easy to transplant. Unwanted webbing straps, pockets and buttons etc. can be filed down, and new ones added as required using plasticard or Green Stuff. Backpacks, webbing pouches, weapons can be cannibalised from other kits, or scratch-built, or sometimes bought as separate sets (particularly WW2 German, WW2 to modern US, British and Soviet/ Russian gear).
Green Stuff can add scrim/ foliage to helmets, hiding their origins, likewise facial features can be changed, beards added etc.

It's alarming to think that had the diorama-maker of James' photo been a bit more original/ experienced in model-making,
the source of the "soldiers" would have been unidentifiable.
Something maybe made in a fourteen year-old's bedroom on a pocket money budget would still be touted as possible evidence of US government agencies (including AARO) lying, and of ETI visits to Earth.
(As others here have noted, digital image manipulation will allow far more sophisticated fakes).
Maybe James/ MUFON will develop a protocol to take into account the possibility of this type of hoax, but I doubt it.

They are serial type-1 error makers; "evidence" which conforms to their prejudices is seen as confirmatory (or at least potentially so) regardless of source, likelihood or indeed in-evidence contradictions (e.g. the US troops with perhaps WW2 German boots and helmets). Evidence against their hypotheses is resisted, unless it is overwhelming and they realise they're courting ridicule.
This isn't how science works (well, not testable non-pathological science anyway), but maybe MUFON's people wouldn't get on TV so often / get so many viewing hits if they were took a more prosaic view of claimed evidence.
The truth they claim to pursue might not be as exciting as they (and some viewers/ surfers) would want it to be.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Like on other threads with unidentified but probably hoax UFOs, there must be lots of possible candidates for James' saucer.

It appears misshapen (unless it was always an irregular shape). It's probably about 1 foot/ 30.48 cm diameter.
I've wondered about the two small circular bumps/ marks on the centre "disc". Maybe rivets, or injection-mould marks?

qw.PNG


If the central disc/ dome was a separate object, it has some resemblance to a wall-bell, though most of those have a single, central point of attachment (which seems sensible).

There's the usual suspects- an old wheel-trim or battered lid from some cooking vessel etc.
We don't know it's metal; maybe a spray-painted frisbee? Well, a slightly warped frisbee?
For some reason it made me think of the underside of an old-style plastic bedpan/ commode insert, but I don't think it is.

Tried an image search, got this lid from a Kazakh website
image;s=400x0;q=50.jpg
but of course similar items might be found in the USA!


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
JMartJr said:
Gerry Anderson DID do a UFO series
Click to expand...

UFO, with Gabrielle Drake as Lieutenant Gay Ellis (sigh). Set partly on the Moonbase, in the future year of... 1980!

ufo.jpg


In real life, Gabrielle's brother was musician Nick Drake, who is much more widely appreciated now than during his life.
And I never had the courage to ask the gf to wear a metallic purple wig.
 
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John J. said:
Something maybe made in a fourteen year-old's bedroom on a pocket money budget would still be touted as possible evidence of US government agencies (including AARO) lying, and of ETI visits to Earth.
Click to expand...
That's why provenance and provenience matter!
If you don't know where something came from, it's not evidence for anything but itself. (i.e. "this picture exists", not "the spaceship in this picture exists".
AI art drives this point home more succinctly than Photoshop has done.
 
If we take this guy
1719548512068.png


And flip the image horizontally
1719548613833.png


He somewhat matches this soldier model from the same kit as the original image
1719548696415.png


Composite
1719556005592.png


It's not exact, the left arm is different and hard to tell if the feet match cause of the terrible quality, but I think it's close enough to be a potential candidate.
 
MonkeeSage said:
He somewhat matches this soldier model from the same kit as the original image
View attachment 69623
Click to expand...

So the guy who wasn't being used in the other diorama? No point wasting him if you've bought the whole box.

And regarding it not being an exact match, the arms are separate from the body, there are several to chose from, and are glued together at an angle of the builder's choice.
 
I think MUFON's bigger problem is 40-50 years of nothing. I scored this book at a used shop a while back:

IMG_7316.jpg


It's from1991 and is a combination of classic UFO cases and MUFON cases. It includes a forward by MUFON director Walt Andrus and is mostly a nuts-and-bolts type book. There is talk of abductees, but it focuses on actual physical UFOs. That was 30+ years ago.

While contemplating attending the McMinnville UFO festival this year I looked at the speakers from the last few events. I noted some of them where MUFON people:

1719799457178.png


Sev Tok and Earl Anderson host MUFON's official radio show:
External Quote:

Sev and Earl Grey Anderson host MUFON Contact Radio, airing alternating Tues nights
8-10pm eastern. On the KGRA network https://live.kgradb.com/catalog
https://planetsev.com/

In addition to being MUFON's Assistant State Director for North Carolina, she is also a MUFON master of ceremonies at various events:

1719799899699.png



Sev can also help one experience their various past lives for a fee:

External Quote:

$42 for a remote session. I write down 2 of your past lives and the themes you came to explore in those lives. You can use this information to better understand why you may be stuck, unsure, unfulfilled, not as successful as you want to be. You discover which mental belief patterns you are re-living over and over, helping you to finally rid yourself of them so you can achieve your goals. You receive the session papers 1-3 days. If you request one today, you will have your answers this weekend!

$72 for a personal session. Same as above, except we are in a private session via zoom. We discuss 2 past lives, life-patterns you wish to heal, new energies you want to birth into your personal matrix, and how to finally get rid of sub-conscious beliefs that set you back and knock you off your course of success. 60 mins.
https://planetsev.com/past-life-session/

Not sure if there is a discount for 3 or more past lives.

Anderson is MUFON's SoCal guy and an "experiencer":

External Quote:

Earl Grey Anderson is MUFON's State Director of Southern California, a MUFON STAR Team member, as well as an executive committee member of MUFON's ERT: The Experiencer Resource Team. In his work with MUFON, Earl has closed a plethora of High Strangeness cases, one of which was presented as one of MUFON's "Cases Of The Year" at the 2021 Symposium. This year, Earl hosted the Experiencer Workshops for MUFON's 2022 Denver Symposium, as he will be doing for the 2023 MUFON Symposium, in Cincinnati Ohio. Earl feels that the Experiencer Phenomenon is the beating heart of Ufology. "If we wish to understand this phenomenon, we need to listen to those who have had face to face encounters." Earl is a full time Ufologist, and lives with his wife Lisa, and two cats, in Los Angeles, California.
https://mufon.com/ertbio/

That is to say, MUFON seems to have moved beyond "actual physical UFOs" weather models or not and is firmly in the "phenomenon" SWR type model. As such ANY thing that might be an actual UFO gets jumped on. They have nothing, so they grasp at anything.
 
Z.W. Wolf said:
Closed? What do they mean by close a case?
Click to expand...
Presumably, the MUFON manual would say more. Instead, have some data:

Source: https://de.slideshare.net/slideshow/2001-2009-report-summary-of-the-mufon-cms-historical-year-end-closed-case-statistics-by-geography-26435238/26435238
External Quote:
This report analyzes closed case data from the Mutual UFO Network's (MUFON) Case Management System (CMS) from 2001-2009. It shows that the number of closed cases grew substantially from 2001 to 2009, with unknown cases making up nearly 45% of the total. The data was reviewed prior to preparing the report to ensure format accuracy. The report contains global and state-by-state breakdowns of closed case classifications such as blank, hoax, identified flying object, insufficient data, and unknown.
2001-2009-report-summary-of-the-mufon-cms-historical-year-end-closed-case-statistics-by-geogr-webp.69701
 

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