PR-48 INDOPACO, 2024 (Wind Farm + Dot Changing Apparent Direction)

[Todd Feinman]

I give up, I can't find that bloody windmill farm!!

Did Trump have it torn down?!
<edit> grinds teeth into powder..

 

[ThomasH]

Did Trump have it torn down?!

I think so!
It's not the the "Indo" area, I've searched everywhere

 

[jjjdanny]

The lack of consistent rows in the first field could be a sign that it was under construction at the time. If so it would be very hard to locate. I'm going to check again looking specifically for one with consistent rows of 3+ turbines next to another and checking the dates as can be found.

 

[MapperGuy]

But bear in mind that birds are well insulated! Looking at thermal imagery of birds, they sometimes appear pretty hot, sometimes pretty cold, though often with hot spots where they lack feathers (feet, eyes, beak).
View attachment 90311
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/feb/06/1

This variability may have to do with how the camera/processor is adjusted (gain, I think I'm using that word correctly here!), how much the bird is fluffing its feathers to retain or release heat, how cold the air around it is, how hot or cold the background is and other factors I haven't considered.

My son and I tried to get some IR footage of birds in flight with his drone, but did not get anything useful -- maybe it is time to try again. But we'd not be able to match a bird at that altitude anyway, and that might be a factor -- a bird gliding at altitude where the air is cold is going to be doing all it can to retain body heat, and the outer surface of the feathers is going to be chilled by cold air blowing across them!

Said all that to say this -- I'd not rule out a bird just because it's cold in the image.

This is a topic that needs study.
Birds thermal signature from below and above could also be much different. From below it is being contrasted with the sky temperature, from below with the ground or water surface temperature.
Size of bird might also influence signatures, hummingbirds have smaller wings compared with something like an albatross. So a soaring bird over the sea would be mostly visible from above as wing surface (no warm feet as in the example here).

 

[Ravi]

The white is "cold" expression can be somewhat misleading. "Cold" could be just some degrees difference to "hot", as the scale can be arbitrary be set. I believe the option of a bird is still open.

 

[Mick West]

The white is "cold" expression can be somewhat misleading. "Cold" could be just some degrees difference to "hot", as the scale can be arbitrary be set. I believe the option of a bird is still open.

Exactly, if this video is black=hot, (BHT) that really just means black is warmer than what is next to it on screen. So, if we've got a sunlit metal pylon next to a bird at 9,000 feet, then the bird could look white.


I think, like with GoFast, I'd put "bird" as the #2 hypothesis. The thermal contrast issue is unresolved. It's also not clear if this is SWIR or MWIR, which makes quite a difference.

 

[Giddierone]

I think so!
It's not the the "Indo" area, I've searched everywhere

There must be some error because there are no turbine fields in INDOPAC that have around 60 turbines and are 3 or 4 turbines wide, but there are two off the shores of Denmark...

Make me wonder if the video is even real.

Lat:55.1771 Lon:7.0292

 

[JMartJr]

Size of bird might also influence signatures, hummingbirds have smaller wings compared with something like an albatross. So a soaring bird over the sea would be mostly visible from above as wing surface (no warm feet as in the example here).

While looking up information about birds and body heat and IR thermal cameras and stuff, I came across info that hummingbirds can regulate their body temperature by going into torpor. Apparently, they "run colder" when asleep, and can go even deeper into torpor and really cool themselves down!

At night, hummingbirds lower their body temperature and metabolism drastically by dropping into an energy-saving state of inactivity called torpor. Scientists from multiple universities now find there's more than one level of torpor: shallow and deep, plus the transition stage between levels of torpor and the normal sleep state.

Their study, "A Heterothermic Spectrum in Hummingbirds," published Jan. 27 in the Journal of Experimental Biology.

"There have been a few hints that this ability to fine-tune thermoregulation was possible," said lead author Anusha Shankar, currently a Rose Postdoctoral Fellow at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. "But the studies were done under laboratory conditions, not the conditions a bird would encounter in the wild. It was really exciting to see that hummingbird torpor could be variable and flexible."

And this interesting bit further down the page:

"At least 42 bird species use torpor," said Shankar, "but only hummingbirds, nightjars and one species of mousebird go into deep torpor. Studying the range of torpor could help us understand the evolution of thermoregulation in birds."

https://cals.cornell.edu/news/2022/02/hummingbirds-exert-fine-control-over-body-heat

I don't think the UAP is a hummingbird, and I doubt (but don't know for sure) whether any bird could glide while in torpor -- but note:

While sleeping mid-flight, frigatebirds don't go completely on autopilot; the birds often sleep with only one side of their brain, leaving the other side awake. Most animals that sleep half-brained do so to stay alert for predators, but frigatebirds have no natural predators in the sky. Rattenborg suspects that they remain half-awake to prevent mid-air collisions, though none were observed during the study.

https://www.audubon.org/news/scientists-finally-have-evidence-frigatebirds-sleep-while-flying

SO... not in torpor, but at least half-asleep! All of which is only to suggest that the topic of how hot a bird would be expected to look in IR imagery (or how hot it might actually be!) might be pretty complex!

 

[Todd Feinman]

I think it is distinct from deep torpor which many birds use to survive in cold weather. I think their temps would be up, especially if flying near wind farm. And the appearance of the flying objects is relative to temperatures behind it.

 

[Giddierone]

Is this badly redacted info (like we saw in some of the Epstein files) or is it just compression noise? (I just moved the midtone slider all the way left).

 

[jarlrmai]

Re-compressed after being redacted another quality loss as well.

 

[Mick West]

Is this badly redacted info (like we saw in some of the Epstein files) or is it just compression noise? (I just moved the midtone slider all the way left).

It is badly retracted. You can see the turbine (very roughly) as it passes through that area.

Interesting. Theretically, it would be possible to extract SOME information from this. But I think there's too much noise, and too much information removed for there to be anything useful.

 

[Mick West]

Theretically, it would be possible to extract SOME information from this. But I think there's too much noise, and too much information removed for there to be anything useful.

But atually, I already see something useful

This is the camera heading indicator, showing how much it's left or right of the centerline

And, it matches my simulation! I'll have to add a levels slider to Sitrec so we can see this easier.

 

[Giddierone]

Actually, the windfarm slightly to the north includes a substation that could be the small building in the images,,,

View attachment 90309

Although many of the windfarms there appear to have similar small substations amongst the turbines.

I keep going back to this site as it's the only one that seems to make any sense. If you look at it in 3D view and have the North point at the 2 o'clock position like it is in the video It has two types of turbines seen in the same order as the video, and the second field closest to the camera resembles the end of the video with rows of 4 smaller turbines. BUT I can't get any kind of satisfactory alignment with the first field. It was built between April and Nov '23 and fully built by Jan 2024. Also, it's possible the substation was a floating rather than fixed structure.
lat:23.97810 lon: 120.18974

https://browser.dataspace.copernicus.eu/?zoom=13&lat=23.89137&lng=120.22048&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=U2FsdGVkX1/tnQ//tI4QaTwM+rACJV1Zal0XaWKxF43s6jhLH5etAJDt20rVPSebB9dY/2ef+7vVWDHpAb8216PUDfwa3NZRRNkxgdUYiFwf3E6p2R8Qlsk9W741uEHd&datasetId=S1_CDAS_IW_VVVH&fromTime=2024-01-05T00:00:00.000Z&toTime=2024-01-05T23:59:59.999Z&layerId=8_RGB-RATIO&demSource3D="MAPZEN"&terrainViewerSettings={"sunTime":null,"settings":{"isSky":true,"isSunFlares":true,"isShading":true,"isShadows":true,"verticalTerrainScaleFactor":1,"shading":{"ambientFactor":0.4000000059604645,"diffuseFactor":0.5400000214576721,"specularFactor":0.10000000149011612,"specularPower":4},"shadows":{"shadowVisibilityFactor":0.5,"shadowRenderDistanceFactor":1}},"x":13382882.121707145,"y":2740177.217583484,"z":13739.29383006528,"rotH":324.4000000000002,"rotV":34.6}&cloudCoverage=30&dateMode=SINGLE