Pilots For 9/11 Truth Weigh in on Chemtrails

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deirdre

Senior Member.
If you can't understand me, how do you know that we are both saying the "exact same thing"?
; ) cause I know a fan, a rotor and a turbine all SPIN. Plus I just watched a doc on flight 110? (the one with no engines that landed on the levy) so I'm familiar with engines and their spinning stuff now.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
A real pilot would state that air is ingested by the fan into the compressor section.

Yeah...and as I stated earlier, I wrote a simplistic essay for the benefit of the layperson.

But, congratulations for a non-event that resulted in showing a level of pettiness heretofore unmatched.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
; ) cause I know a fan, a rotor and a turbine all SPIN. Plus I just watched a doc on flight 110? (the one with no engines that landed on the levy) so I'm familiar with engines and their spinning stuff now.


Ahhh... I see.

Now ask yourself this question.

Why do I put my name to my claims, and "weedwhacker" will never.....? Yet seems to attack P4T every chance he/she/it gets?

Here's a hint, ask "TWCobra" if the air for cabin pressure is "bled from the turbine cycle"... as claimed by "weedwhacker".....

I am willing to bet he gets as big a laugh as I did and all my pilot buddies who read it....
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
I am willing to bet he gets as big a laugh as I did and all my pilot buddies who read it
If you are implying that WeedWhacker is not an experienced commercial pilot as he states he is, then you are expected to provide evidence better than just "a laugh". Until then, he is what he says he is.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Why do I put my name to my claims, and "weedwhacker" will never.....?
Look, I have no idea what your obsession with Weedwhacker is...and if you have a single shred of actual proof
that refutes his claims of pilot experience (and no, another "lol" doesn't count, here) now would be a great time to produce it.

This is a forum for debunking. The only person who has been undeniably de-pants'd here recently is you,
after you had to do a 180 on your bogus Wikipedia/turbine allegation just minutes ago.
Honestly, your tedious, repetitive attempts to attack others suggests a need to distract from your own obvious errors.

Keep it about facts, and let go of any petty grudges you're carrying...you're wearing out your welcome...again.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Ahhh... I see.

Now ask yourself this question.

Why do I put my name to my claims, and "weedwhacker" will never.....? Yet seems to attack P4T every chance he/she/it gets?

Here's a hint, ask "TWCobra" if the air for cabin pressure is "bled from the turbine cycle"... as claimed by "weedwhacker".....

I am willing to bet he gets as big a laugh as I did and all my pilot buddies who read it....
first of all, I read YOUR link about the bled thing. so I have no issue with what weedwhacker said. he just put it in simpler language I can understand...which he doesn't always do, he often uses pilot babble too I have to ask him to translate to normal terms.
2. I have no idea what a p4t is.
3. weed whacker is a moniker he explained. he isn't hiding behind anything. we all know his real name, "space cowboy"...which wouldn't that make your name "Maurice?" (which you claim it isn't).
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
A P4T was a concept vehicle, that began with high expectations, but later turned out to be impossible to steer well,
and is now a punchline among the overwhelming majority of pilots.
ok. that would have been my last guess! ; )

but still @SpaceCowboy you still haven't gotten back on topic and defined your chemical soup.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Ahhh... I see.

Now ask yourself this question.

Why do I put my name to my claims, and "weedwhacker" will never.....? Yet seems to attack P4T every chance he/she/it gets?

Here's a hint, ask "TWCobra" if the air for cabin pressure is "bled from the turbine cycle"... as claimed by "weedwhacker".....

I am willing to bet he gets as big a laugh as I did and all my pilot buddies who read it....

No, I would point out that this is yet another example of your use of the strawman technique in order to attempt to discredit an argument, or a debate opponent. That you are practised in this Rob, doesn't mean that others do not see through it. That and the use of inverted commas when you refer to someone... BTW, most of the people on this forum know my name as you do.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
It's a non-issue - you both agree the air comes from outside the plane, you picked on the words weedwhacker used in his description, but he has clarified he means the same thing as you do, and was a side issue anyway to the OP. Let's get back to that.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
If it were so "immaterial", why does this forum section exist?


I especially like "weedwhacker" claims of the "turbine cycle" which pumps bleed air into the cabin... it contributes to the old saying, "Having little knowledge is more dangerous than having none..

If the air you breathe in the cabin came off the "turbine cycle", you'd be dead before you reached 20,000 feet.

In fact, the air you get in the cabin comes off a compressor section,,, it is super clean. Any air from a "turbine" section is filled with CO after being fried in the combustion chambers.

So you think that the compressor is not part of the "turbine CYCLE" - how curious.
How does a turbine engine work if it doesn't have a compressor as part of the cycle?

I'm curious because I was always taught that the engine or turbine cycle was "suck squeeze bang blow" - as for a piston engine, only in a turbine engine all 4 stages are continuous.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
What To Expect If Your Airplane Flys Through A "chemtrail"

If any one of the airplanes in the below link (or your airplane) fly through a visible "chemtrail"....

http://flightradar24.com

....you can expect this to occur...

- Visibility in the cabin to go to zero as the cabin will be filled with compressed visible "chemicals". Aircraft cabins are not a sealed container. The air you breathe in the cabin comes directly from outside the airplane regardless of altitude. The air (and any possible "chemicals"), are sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin.
- Passengers and crew suffocating from high concentrations of chemicals
- If the O2 masks were not deployed within 1-3 mins, incapacitation of the entire crew and passengers shortly followed by death.
- If the O2 masks were deployed, the crew would be reading erroneous instrument data...
- airspeed readings would now act like an altimeter due to the pitot tubes being clogged with chemicals.
- Fire in both/all engines due to chemicals igniting within the combustion chambers
- If the engines did not catch fire, engine surges/flame-outs/compressor stalls due to FADEC probes clogged with chemicals... compressor fans clogged with chemicals.
- AOA vanes providing erroneous data, erroneous stall warnings.. due to AOA vanes caked with chemicals.
- Failure of AP systems due to Air data computer logics not adding up
- Stall due to leading edges of wings/empennage caked with chemicals.


And this is just off the top of my head...

Full article - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22652



I guess the fact that planes fly through trails all the time and they're not dropping out of the sky 24/7 kinf of debunks chemtrails then ;)
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Rob, I see the chemtrail theorists have invaded your P4T forum. You will find the most thorough debunking of the theory here and on contrailscience.com.

I personally wouldn't give them more air or forum space if I could possibly avoid it
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
If it were so "immaterial", why does this forum section exist?
It exists because the "chemtrails" meme exists. Myths may exist even though their subjects don't. It's the same with fairies.

It exists because YOU do: "Visibility zero - Passengers and crew suffocating - incapacitation of the entire crew and passengers - reading erroneous instrument data - airspeed readings would now act like an altimeter - Fire within combustion chambers - engine surges/flame-outs/compressor stalls - erroneous stall warnings - Failure of AP systems - Stall" are all indicative of someone busy trying to make other people afraid, using lies and misdirection.

do you disagree with anything in the OP if flying through what some claim to be "chemtrails"?
What people claim to be "chemtrails" (namely persistent contrails) I know to be about as poisonous as Perrier water. Delicious. :)

And, of course, the compressor stage of a turbofan is a multi-stage turbine and fire is normally found within combustion chambers.

So what's NOT to disagree with?
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
Eminently sage advice and suggestion.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

...came to mind...for Mr. Balsam seems to see quite easily through the absurdity of chemtrails...and yet...



(should I have held that passage off until Sunday morning?) :p
 
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TWCobra

Senior Member.
Harold Saive is the original invader of that forum where he asks, "Why no pilots for Chemtrail truth?"

Perhaps Harold should examine that question in greater depth. If chemtrails were real, there would be no group more affected than professional pilots. And yet, we remain strangely unconcerned...
 

cjnewson88

Member
I'm curious because I was always taught that the engine or turbine cycle was "suck squeeze bang blow" - as for a piston engine, only in a turbine engine all 4 stages are continuous.

"suck squeeze bang turbine blow" - ya almost had it :p
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
A) suck squeeze bang blow
B) suck squeeze bang turbine blow
C) Suck...Squeeze...Burn...Blow

C'mon guys...get it together. And I'm pretty sure B) is just the nicknames of the Spice Girls...

Screen Shot 2014-03-22 at 7.06.50 PM.png
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
I've posted this before but how would anyone explain this then?



What To Expect If Your Airplane Flys Through A "chemtrail"

If any one of the airplanes in the below link (or your airplane) fly through a visible "chemtrail"....

http://flightradar24.com

....you can expect this to occur...

- Visibility in the cabin to go to zero as the cabin will be filled with compressed visible "chemicals". Aircraft cabins are not a sealed container. The air you breathe in the cabin comes directly from outside the airplane regardless of altitude. The air (and any possible "chemicals"), are sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin.
- Passengers and crew suffocating from high concentrations of chemicals
- If the O2 masks were not deployed within 1-3 mins, incapacitation of the entire crew and passengers shortly followed by death.
- If the O2 masks were deployed, the crew would be reading erroneous instrument data...
- airspeed readings would now act like an altimeter due to the pitot tubes being clogged with chemicals.
- Fire in both/all engines due to chemicals igniting within the combustion chambers
- If the engines did not catch fire, engine surges/flame-outs/compressor stalls due to FADEC probes clogged with chemicals... compressor fans clogged with chemicals.
- AOA vanes providing erroneous data, erroneous stall warnings.. due to AOA vanes caked with chemicals.
- Failure of AP systems due to Air data computer logics not adding up
- Stall due to leading edges of wings/empennage caked with chemicals.


And this is just off the top of my head...

Full article - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22652

 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
The compressor vs. turbine section?

Bleed-air, for the use of anti-ice equipment and cabin pressurization, is drawn off the axial flow section of the inter-turbine section of the the turbine engine, (trying to be funny and serious at the same time).

The whole damn engine is a turbine(turbine engine).

I suggest this book, which most airline and military pilots have read...

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/gas-tur...&adid=17260&gclid=CPCci4P1q70CFY0-MgodtWQA6w#

SpaceCowboy, I have no idea what you do for a living but I suggest you brush up on your knowledge before you respond arrogantly.


If it were so "immaterial", why does this forum section exist?


I especially like "weedwhacker" claims of the "turbine cycle" which pumps bleed air into the cabin... it contributes to the old saying, "Having little knowledge is more dangerous than having none..

If the air you breathe in the cabin came off the "turbine cycle", you'd be dead before you reached 20,000 feet.

In fact, the air you get in the cabin comes off a compressor section,,, it is super clean. Any air from a "turbine" section is filled with CO after being fried in the combustion chambers.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
The compressor vs. turbine section?

Bleed-air, for the use of anti-ice equipment and cabin pressurization, is drawn off the axial flow section of the inter-turbine section ......

not the terminology I would use - bleed air comes from the compressor section - not the turbine section........so unless we're using different words for the same thing I think you're wrong on that point.

and in the 787 of course now there is no bleed air - cabin air is drawn directly from the ambient via electric driven compressors specifically for that purpose, so as to improve engine efficiency.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
not the terminology I would use - bleed air comes from the compressor section - not the turbine section........so unless we're using different words for the same thing I think you're wrong on that point.

and in the 787 of course now there is no bleed air - cabin air is drawn directly from the ambient via electric driven compressors specifically for that purpose, so as to improve engine efficiency.

"Semantics, Schemantics" ( :p )

Mike, this came about because of a personal attack against moi, a few posts back. I made the (cough, cough) "mistake" of using imprecise language when explaining the basics to a layperson, and a certain individual POUNCED on that in order to "score". :rolleyes:
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Yeah I saw that and commented on it myself - but that's not an excuse for confusing things further :confused:
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
I don't see what point you are making either???

I'm not going to argue about the damn jet engine and how it works...ok???? The jet engine has obviously proven itself. If cowboy wants to redefine physics let him.

sorry - I don't see what point you are making?? :confused:
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
Sorry guys...I see the semantics of jet engine terminology as a waste of time. I'm not an expert at the terminology of a jet engine but I am an expert at the usage of the jet engine as it is part of my job...as it is for some of you on this thread. Cowboy seems to have a a skewed version of how the jet engine works as it is tied to the rest of the aircraft.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
not the terminology I would use - bleed air comes from the compressor section - not the turbine section........so unless we're using different words for the same thing I think you're wrong on that point.
maybe in pilot manuals the "combustion section" is called the "turbine section" but they don't call it the turbine section in documentaries. I think its fine to argue specifics, pilot to pilot, but this is Metabunk primarily for laymen to debunk bunk.

Obviously proper vocabulary is always good but I think 'technical' responses should be aware of 'non-technical readers' and translate the techno jargon for us. like Weed Whacker did.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Ahhh... I see.

Now ask yourself this question.

Why do I put my name to my claims, and "weedwhacker" will never.....? Yet seems to attack P4T every chance he/she/it gets?

Here's a hint, ask "TWCobra" if the air for cabin pressure is "bled from the turbine cycle"... as claimed by "weedwhacker".....

I am willing to bet he gets as big a laugh as I did and all my pilot buddies who read it....

So if TWCobra tells you that your description in the OP hasn't happened, you'll wthdraw the ridiculous thing?
 

cjnewson88

Member
Lot of fuss over simple terminology.. The entire engine is a [gas]-turbine engine, so bleed air comes from the turbine engine if you want to put it like that. However if you're going into specific, the bleed air comes from the compressor stage of the turbine engine, not the turbine stage, but that is nit picking too far for this conversation.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned

deirdre

Senior Member.
Agreed. And this is exactly the point of the OP. Some people are so blinded by their hatred for P4T they didn't even realize the purpose of the OP. But you got it... :)
maybe because you purposefully didn't paste the end part of your forum post in the OP.
 
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