Pilots For 9/11 Truth Weigh in on Chemtrails

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SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
What To Expect If Your Airplane Flys Through A "chemtrail"

If any one of the airplanes in the below link (or your airplane) fly through a visible "chemtrail"....

http://flightradar24.com

....you can expect this to occur...

- Visibility in the cabin to go to zero as the cabin will be filled with compressed visible "chemicals". Aircraft cabins are not a sealed container. The air you breathe in the cabin comes directly from outside the airplane regardless of altitude. The air (and any possible "chemicals"), are sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin.
- Passengers and crew suffocating from high concentrations of chemicals
- If the O2 masks were not deployed within 1-3 mins, incapacitation of the entire crew and passengers shortly followed by death.
- If the O2 masks were deployed, the crew would be reading erroneous instrument data...
- airspeed readings would now act like an altimeter due to the pitot tubes being clogged with chemicals.
- Fire in both/all engines due to chemicals igniting within the combustion chambers
- If the engines did not catch fire, engine surges/flame-outs/compressor stalls due to FADEC probes clogged with chemicals... compressor fans clogged with chemicals.
- AOA vanes providing erroneous data, erroneous stall warnings.. due to AOA vanes caked with chemicals.
- Failure of AP systems due to Air data computer logics not adding up
- Stall due to leading edges of wings/empennage caked with chemicals.


And this is just off the top of my head...

Full article - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22652

 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Wouldn't all this depend on what chemicals they were? What chemicals are they supposing they are to do all this?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
? the admin is a pilot? I'm breathing compressed 'engine' air in the cabin when flying? what does that even mean?
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
? the admin is a pilot? I'm breathing compressed 'engine' air in the cabin when flying? what does that even mean?


In short, yes....

When flying in a jet, your air comes from directly outside the airplane. It is sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin.

I rarely rely on anything in wiki.... but this is pretty accurate for how you get your air in a jet cabin....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Is this meant to be a humorous 'If chemtrails were real, these things would happen, which they clearly don't, so chemtrails aren't real' article?
Or in earnest?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Is this meant to be a humorous 'If chemtrails were real, these things would happen, which they clearly don't, so chemtrails aren't real' article?
Or in earnest?
No, I'm pretty sure it's just an extremely inarticulate attempt to mock the concept of chemtrails...
well-intentioned, but so poorly executed as to render itself limp and ineffective.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I'm breathing compressed 'engine' air in the cabin when flying? what does that even mean?

Air that is ingested by the engine is compressed as part of the turbine cycle, and some of it is "bled" off (tapped off, if you will) for various uses, one of which is to supply the Air Cycle Machines (or "packs"). There it encounters another variety of turbines, it is expanded and cooled, and otherwise conditioned before acting as the supply for the airplane's pressurization needs.

This is common for just about every airplane with a pressurized cabin, except of course the new Boeing 787, which incorporates an innovative design that eliminates the need for the majority of engine hot air "tapping off" (except for engine anti-ice needs), and instead pressurization utilizes electric compressor pumps. Of course, as before, the air that supplies the pressure is obtained from the outside environment.

Start at 1:00 -

Note the two stages of compression? Depending on specific power plant, the hot high pressure air is "tapped off" usually in two locations, typically the 6th stage and again around the 13th. With the latter being much more hot and higher in pressure.

This does 'rob" the engine of course, hence the decision by Boeing on the B787, in order to obtain improved fuel economy.
 
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SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
Air that is ingested by the engine is compressed as part of the turbine cycle, and some of it is "bled" off (tapped off, if you will) for various uses, one of which is to supply the Air Cycle Machines (or "packs"). There it encounters another variety of turbines, it is expanded and cooled, and otherwise conditioned before acting as the supply for the airplane's pressurization needs.

This is common for just about every airplane with a pressurized cabin, except of course the new Boeing 787, which incorporates an innovative design that eliminates the need for the majority of engine hot air "tapping off" (except for engine anti-ice needs), and instead pressurization utilizes electric compressor pumps. Of course, as before, the air that supplies the pressure is obtained from the outside environment.

So, with that said "weedwhcker", would the air inside the cabin be more... or less... in concentration... if flying through a visible chemtrail? as opposed to sitting on the ground....

Do you feel that "chemtrails" are real? And if so why?

You claim to be a pilot... do you think 757 packs can filter out any flight through visible chemtrails?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Air that is ingested by the engine is compressed as part of the turbine cycle, and some of it is "bled" off (tapped off, if you will) for various uses, one of which is to supply the Air Cycle Machines (or "packs"). There it encounters another variety of turbines, it is expanded and cooled, and otherwise conditioned before acting as the supply for the airplane's pressurization needs.

This is common for just about every airplane with a pressurized cabin, except of course the new Boeing 787, which incorporates an innovative design that eliminates the need for the majority of engine hot air "tapping off" (except for engine anti-ice needs), and instead pressurization utilizes electric compressor pumps. Of course, as before, the air that supplies the pressure is obtained from the outside environment.
thanks. just read up on that. Very happy to hear 787 don't do this.. are those commercial planes, 787? nothing like the cooling system breaking and breathing in 250 C air ; (
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
nothing like the cooling system breaking and breathing in 250 C air ; (

:cool:....no, rest assured that cannot happen. (And, would be worse than those pesky alleged "chemtrails", eh?) Many safeguards built into the pack designs (various overheat sensors, etc that trigger automatic shutdowns of the pack, or valve closings, etc).

Yes, the B787 is a commercial airliner. It's rather had its share of the news cycle, last year anyway. Teething problems. You might recognize it by the nickname "Dreamliner"?
 
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SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
:cool:....no, rest assured that cannot happen. (And, would be worse than those pesky alleged "chemtrails", eh?) Many safeguards built into the pack designs (various overheat sensors, etc that trigger automatic shutdowns of the pack, or valve closings, etc).

Yes, the B787 is a commercial airliner. It's rather had its share of the news cycle, last year anyway. Teething problems. You might recognize it by the nickname "Dreamliner"?


Were these designs built in the 787 as a result of "chemtrails"?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
....would the air inside the cabin be more... or less... in concentration... if flying through a visible chemtrail?

This question is immaterial, since "chem"trails (as popularized since the late 1990s in common urban myth memes) do not exist.

... as opposed to sitting on the ground....

Many times I have had situations (holding on a taxiway or in the ramp area) when surface winds happen to cause the exhaust fumes from another airplane's engines to be ingested by ours, and the smell then can enter the cabin. This is just a minor annoyance, however. If one wished to be pedantic, one could refer to ALL turbine engine exhaust as a "chem"trail...but then, we'd have to expand that definition to include what comes out of the exhaust system of every internal combustion engine that burns fossil fuels.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
This question is immaterial, since "chem"trails (as popularized since the late 1990s in common urban myth memes) do not exist.

If it were so "immaterial", why does this forum section exist?


I especially like "weedwhacker" claims of the "turbine cycle" which pumps bleed air into the cabin... it contributes to the old saying, "Having little knowledge is more dangerous than having none..

If the air you breathe in the cabin came off the "turbine cycle", you'd be dead before you reached 20,000 feet.

In fact, the air you get in the cabin comes off a compressor section,,, it is super clean. Any air from a "turbine" section is filled with CO after being fried in the combustion chambers.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
"turbine cycle"?

Really? Care to put your name on that?

lol....


(and this guy calls himself a pilot?)

There is a "cycle" of progression in reference to the air as it passes through the various stages that it encounters in a turbine engine, yes.

It is known as a "figure of speech" in order to make it easier for the layperson to grasp a concept.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
There is a "cycle" of progression in reference to the air as it passes through the various stages that it encounters in a turbine engine, yes.

It is known as a "figure of speech" in order to make it easier for the layperson to grasp a concept.
I knew what you meant.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
If the air you breathe in the cabin came off the "turbine cycle", you'd be dead before you reached 20,000 feet.

That wasn't what I implied...you obviously misinterpreted. Again, mistaken semantics.

In fact, the air you get in the cabin comes off a compressor section,,, it is super clean.

Yes, it IS as clean as it was when it went in. However, a compressor rotor is also a turbine.
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
In fact, the air you get in the cabin comes off a compressor section,,, it is super clean. Any air from a "turbine" section is filled with CO after being fried in the combustion chambers.

In a nutshell: the cabin air is taken after initial compression but before combustion.

The jet engine is used as a compressor, eliminating the need for an additional device.

[Edit] Recommended read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_air
 
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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
as thick as like volcanic ash planes cant fly through. no ?

Yes, a full pyroclastic ash plume would present significant aerodynamic 'challenges'. :D

But, a more subtle hazard can be found in even a very dilute "cloud" of ash. Not aerodynamic hazards, but danger to the engines. Ingesting of volcanic ash causes power degradation and ultimately complete engine failure, and of course the density would be a determining factor as to just how fast the engine would become disabled.

A video:


Further reading:
http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/VolcanicAsh/VolcanicAsh.htm

Interestingly, the fact of TurboFan airplane engines' susceptibility to volcanic ash is yet another "nail in the coffin" for the "chem"trail hoax and myth.
 
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JFDee

Senior Member.
This does 'rob" the engine of course, hence the decision by Boeing on the B787, in order to obtain improved fuel economy.
The downside must be that you need a bunch of additional systems to do the tasks previously shouldered by the consistent bleed air 'circulation'.

It will be interesting to see how overall reliability is affected. The mass increase has probably been mitigated by significant reductions elsewhere.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Ok... so .. .bottom line... do you disagree with anything in the OP if flying through what some claim to be "chemtrails"?
Well as what most claim to be chemtrails are synonymous with contrails, then no, those things would not happen anymore than they do now when flying through clouds.
If you are to define chemtrails to mean a specific chemical soup then maybe, but you haven't really said what chemicals you are hypothesising flying through.
(the typical claims for chemtrail ingredients are barium and aluminium - is this what you are using as a model?)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
definition turbine
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
Well as what most claim to be chemtrails are synonymous with contrails, then no, those things would not happen anymore than they do now when flying through clouds.

Agreed. But I am also wondering why everyone else is answering a question directed at "Weedwhacker", and why he/she/it has continued to ignore my question?


If you are to define chemtrails to mean a specific chemical soup then maybe, but you haven't really said what chemicals you are hypothesising flying through.

Yes, in fact I have. I am Rob Balsamo who wrote the OP.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
definition turbine

Fair enough.. .but most if not all pilots know that a compressor section refers to clean air... and a turbine section is after the combustion chambers.

Any person who claims a turbine is prior to the combustion chambers is not much of a pilot.... plain and simple...
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
You may want to correct Wiki then....

One image (from Wiki) that merely uses the illustration to help people differentiate between components of the "compressor section" and the "turbine section". The rotors in both sections can be also referred to as "turbines".

Just as the turbines in the air conditioning Packs are called....well, "turbines". You know the Packs, right? Where all that "super clean air" is. That air passes through turbines, yes that's what they're referred to as. Oh, and a Pack? It is also called (and this i mentioned in the original post before we gish galloped away on this ridiculous little ride)...the Air Cycle Machine.

Fair enough.. .but most if not all pilots know that a compressor section refers to clean air... and a turbine section is after the combustion chambers.

Frankly, I grow weary of these sorts of word games and semantics.

"Turbine cycle" was quite obvious in its context, as it implied the COMPLETE cycle of the air from entry to exit. I did not say "turbine section" at any point when referring to the air compression aspect of the bleed air system.

Care to prove me wrong on this point? Then, quote it and post it.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
If you are to define chemtrails to mean a specific chemical soup then maybe, but you haven't really said what chemicals you are hypothesising flying through.Click to expand...
Yes, in fact I have. I am Rob Balsamo who wrote the OP.
I don't see it. ??
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Fair enough.. .but most if not all pilots know that a compressor section refers to clean air... and a turbine section is after the combustion chambers.

Any person who claims a turbine is prior to the combustion chambers is not much of a pilot.... plain and simple...
this site isn't dedicated to pilots. it is primarily for laymen like me. to me the whole engine is a turbine and the combustion section is the combustion section. just saying.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
One image (from Wiki) that merely uses the illustration to help people differentiate between components of the "compressor section" and the "turbine section". The rotors in both sections can be also referred to as "turbines".

I suppose they can. But I have yet to meet one VERIFIED aviator who referred to a compression section as a turbine section....


lol
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
But I have yet to meet one VERIFIED aviator who referred to a compression section as a turbine section....
lol

AGAIN: Prove that I "referred to a compression" [sic] "section as a turbine section" by copying the text, and posting it.

Or, withdraw your claim, please.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
AGAIN: Prove that I "referred to a compression" [sic] "section as a turbine section" by copying the text, and posting it.

Air that is ingested by the engine is compressed as part of the turbine cycle, and some of it is "bled" off (tapped off, if you will) for various uses, one of which is to supply the Air Cycle Machines (or "packs").

A real pilot would state that air is ingested by the fan into the compressor section. From there bleed air is tapped depending on high or low pressure air, fed directly into the ECS system (Heat/Air exchangers.. or packs).. .and then into the cabin.

I don't know of any VERIFIED pilot who would use the word "turbine cycle" with regard to bleed air taps....

I suppose this is one of the very reasons "weedwhacker" had to abandon his userID at ATS.... lol
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
A real pilot would state that air is ingested by the fan into the compressor section. From there bleed air is tapped depending on high or low pressure air, fed directly into the ECS system (Heat/Air exchangers.. or packs).. .and then into the cabin.

I don't know of any VERIFIED pilot who would use the word "turbine cycle" with regard to bleed air taps....

I suppose this is one of the very reasons "weedwhacker" had to abandon his userID at ATS.... lol
youre being ridiculous. AND the point of this site is to speak ENGLISH (not pilot babble) that ALL people can understand.
 

SpaceCowboy

Rob Balsamo of P4T
Banned
youre being ridiculous. AND the point of this site is to speak ENGLISH (not pilot babble) that ALL people can understand.

I have been trying. But if and when it does come down to "pilot babble", would you rather learn from a verified Flight Instructor, or someone like "weedwhacker"?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I have been trying. But if and when it does come down to "pilot babble", would you rather learn from a verified Flight Instructor, or someone like "weedwhacker"?
I cant learn from you if I cant understand you. and you are both saying the exact same thing. so youre just being difficult.
 
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