Mystery Aircraft over Texas 10th March 2014 - Steve Douglass
- Thread starter TEEJ
- Start date
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
That's an F-14 (I recognized it immediately). Even without reading the link's info.
I think we are interested in potential "top secret" designs that have been spied. Keeping in mind that during development, the F-117 and B-2 were so "unconventional" in design as to defy some basic pre-suppostions by many aviators.
ETA: But of course the B-2 is merely a re-imagining of a basic "flying wing" concept, first introduced by Northrop in the late 1940s (post WW2):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YB-49
personal side note: Back before Northrop Aviation was merged with Grumman, they occupied a spot at the Hawthorne Airport, where I learned to fly.
KHHR: http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KHHR
Jason
Senior Member
I thought the Nazi's came up with the flying wing concept and we recovered it during or after WWII
Jason
Senior Member
I can't see the design limits going much further beyond the B-2 to be honest with you. The only thing that would be "astounding" would be if they actually developed a flying disc using anti gravity..lol
deirdre
Senior Member.
kinda hard to prove a top secret design without first proving its not a known design.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Yes, you are likely correct!! I had forgotten about that (but of course, in war time, many heads think "outside the box", so to speak. So original ideas likely lost to history). There is no denying, though, that German engineers were incredibly brilliant!!
An interesting video about Nazi flying wing (dubbed the "Horten 229"):
NOTE the contrails and high-level CIRRUS clouds at the 34:00 point....(but, I digress).
(Please give it full attention, there are many "Easter Eggs" contained within!)
("Easter Egg" is a term to describe "hidden gems"....FYI)
MAN!! As a scale modeler, this gives me goosebumps!!!!
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Maybe it's this.
What is "that"? The source, please.
Mumbles
Active Member
The Flying Wing concept arose more or less simultaneously among aircraft manufacturers in the 1930's as an example of convergent evolution if you will - the idea that the B-2 was the Ho-229 writ large was largely promulgated by latter day documentary productions like the above, and is mostly myth. Northrop for example was working on flying wing designs at the same time as the Horten brothers before WWII, the Ho-229 is just the most well known because of it's "secret-Nazi-Luft '46-Superweapon" cachet. The B-2 owes far more to Northrop's own designs such as the the YB-35 and YB-49, the former being designed during WW2 rather than after it, and hence prior to whatever "secrets" the Ho-229 could provide. The Ho-229 was an influence on the B-2 as a previous working example of the configuration, but it's a stretch to claim any more than that. It's also a stretch to claim the Ho-229 was built as a true stealth aircraft from the outset - while some radar defeating technique was applied, it's stealth characteristics are mostly just a consequence of it's configuration, and there are a number of NON-stealthy aspects to it as well.
ETA for clarity and reference to Horten's radar attenuation efforts.
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Brilliant addition, and thanks for the info!!
ETA: Also I am compelled to comment that a "flying wing" airplane design in the terms of the modern iteration of the B-2 requires extensive computer interfaces in the flight control system, to ensure stability. (And yet, the Ho-229 is documented to have flown, absent what we consider modern 'computer stability software'. Just amazing!!).
That is all I know, as an aviation "guy" & pilot, lacking any specific clearances otherwise.
(I will also bow to member 'Mumbles' here, and once again say that the info is much appreciated!!)
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Jason
Senior Member
https://www.google.com/search?q=top...tILYCA&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1066&bih=658&dpr=0.75. It was meant as a joke really. All I did was key "top secret military aircraft" and it came up.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Ah...OK. Thanks much, 'Jason'.
A way to know that what we see online isn't always "accurate". Some things need to be "de-bunked" (shout out to 'MetaBunk' !!)
....grin....
Mumbles
Active Member
Hi-vis VF-1, second best F-14 scheme ever
. Also notable for the glove vanes being deployed, that isn't a common look.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Hi-vis VF-1, second best F-14 scheme ever
"glove vanes" (This isn't an aviation term that I am familiar with...does this refer to AOA vanes, or possibly to pitot tubes??)
deirdre
Senior Member.
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
the real question is: are those 'isosceles' triangles?
Yes, per the 'definition'. But, relevance? (>grin>)
(AND also, I recognize that picture as a bit of a styrene plastic model kit, of some sort. Did I mention my various hobbies??)
.wink.
( The plastic sprue, AKA a 'tree" in some parlance. I try to keep it accurate, and always refer to the bits as a "sprue", in model kits. But, I'm just pedantic in that way. Some may "hate" me for it!! {lol} )
Mumbles
Active Member
The term "glove vane" is as far as I'm aware peculiar to the F-14A. It refers to the retractable canard you can see deployed forward of the of the mainplane in the 70's and 80's Tomcat pics Jason posted. The idea was to provide extra stability and manouverability during high speed flight, but in practice I think they wound up being deactivated eventually on F-14A's, and deleted from subsequent F-14 models altogether.
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-glovevane.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F-14_Tomcat#Variable-geometry_wings
ETA more details and links
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Ah!!! Most excellent, and great thanks!! i know 'canard', but maybe the original French derivation of that word stuck in the 'throats' of the designers and pilots, after the fact?? (Just guessing....).
Mumbles
Active Member
Looks like a Hasegawa F-14A sprue (I also dabble in the dark arts of styrene).
"Sprue" is the only term I have ever used for the item in 30+ years BTW
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Here is a list of flying wings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flying_wings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flying_wings
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
As a pilot, and also a modeler....you would be "amazed" at how creative people can be!!:
(Also to add.... not only a long-time "Star Trek" fan, and also a hobbyist, I cringe a bit at posting this video. But, it is used for illustration, as per my intent).
KC-10FE
Senior Member.
All of the F-14's and the most of the F-117's have gone to the boneyard quite some time ago.
This is kind of interesting, since Iran still operates a few F14's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-14_Tomcat
"In January 2007, the U.S. Department of Defense announced that sales of spare F-14 parts would be suspended over concerns of the parts ending up in Iran.[60] In July 2007, the remaining American F-14s were shredded to ensure that any parts could not be acquired.[54] In summer of 2010, Iran requested that the United States deliver the 80th F-14 it had purchased in 1974, but delivery was denied after the Islamic Revolution"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk
Although officially retired, the F-117 fleet remains intact, and photos show the aircraft carefully mothballed.[46] F-117s have been spotted flying in the Nellis Bombing Range as recently as 2013.[64]
This is kind of interesting, since Iran still operates a few F14's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-14_Tomcat
"In January 2007, the U.S. Department of Defense announced that sales of spare F-14 parts would be suspended over concerns of the parts ending up in Iran.[60] In July 2007, the remaining American F-14s were shredded to ensure that any parts could not be acquired.[54] In summer of 2010, Iran requested that the United States deliver the 80th F-14 it had purchased in 1974, but delivery was denied after the Islamic Revolution"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk
Although officially retired, the F-117 fleet remains intact, and photos show the aircraft carefully mothballed.[46] F-117s have been spotted flying in the Nellis Bombing Range as recently as 2013.[64]
Balance
Senior Member.
That's a shame, I enjoyed seeing a Tomcat display at RAF Mildenhall. Loved the way the wings strained/flexed when pulling low-speed high-G turns with throttles pushed full chat.
ETA: Oh, and the noise!!!
KC-10FE
Senior Member.
That's a shame, I enjoyed seeing a Tomcat display at RAF Mildenhall. Loved the way the wings strained/flexed when pulling low-speed high-G turns with throttles pushed full chat.
ETA: Oh, and the noise!!!
She was something else, I was down at Key West in about 2005 or so and saw a couple sitting on the flight line, getting ready to be flown to the boneyard. There is something about seeing them with the wings swept back, it really was amazing in its time.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
THAT ( ^^^ ) just breaks my heart!!!
Here's a video that is related, and well...causes me to cry every time!!:
(ANY pilot who can watch the above video { ^^^ } and not cry, is NOT a pilot!!!)
Sorry for becoming overly emotional. In the YouTube video above, if you "pause" at time "2:50", you will see a B-737-300, N17345. I flew THAT airplane...and this is why I find this video so compelling.
The video maker is obviously an American Airlines pilot (most likely one of the "management pilots") and he made this video to document one of the "many" MD-80 "retirements".
Sorry, I still cry....every time....even though I know that airplanes have a defined service life.
I recommend a museum, for aviation enthusiasts...
Also watch this video to the end...I somewhat disagree...BUT, having a LOT of time on the B727? My "disagreement" is very minor.......
When the one pilot says "Good boy" (Left Seat, probably) early in the video? ALL of us who are pilots will understand this....hard to explain UNLESS you are a pilot!!!!
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MikeC
Closed Account
You know you're getting old when you've seen a top flight aircraft go through it's entire life cycle - from the initial discussions about design to 100% laid up........747's haven't got too long to go, and I recall when the F-15 was going to get a 25mm caseless ammo Gatling gun and the Tornado was the "Panavia MRCA".....
Balance
Senior Member.
I was a kid holidaying in the scottish mountains when I was "introduced" to Tornado's (hence my love of swept-wing, screaming fighter jets) and Jaguar's playing hide n seek through the valleys. They must have been travelling close to Mach1 because you never heard them coming! Just this almighty sudden roar overhead as they swooped and banked and were gone.
It's interesting to note, the Tornado is still in service and can still outfox the more modern F-15's and Raptors through the welsh "mach loop"
TEEJ
Senior Member.
Steve Douglass has updated the article. He has also received a reply from the B-2 base in Missouri. This sequence of images are limited to this size.
http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/mystery-aircraft-photographed-over.html
Link to one of photographs by Dean Muskett. In colour, enlargable, but still with no full EXIF data.
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Fymrr_24DQ/UzmeLghTQvI/AAAAAAAAV6Y/OO_vyvbB49Y/s1600/DEAN-3160.jpg
Dean Muskett has posted on a UK aviation enthusiast forum.
Apologies if the link is not accessible. For some sections you may have to be registered?
http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&t=95421
http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/mystery-aircraft-photographed-over.html
Link to one of photographs by Dean Muskett. In colour, enlargable, but still with no full EXIF data.
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Fymrr_24DQ/UzmeLghTQvI/AAAAAAAAV6Y/OO_vyvbB49Y/s1600/DEAN-3160.jpg
Dean Muskett has posted on a UK aviation enthusiast forum.
Apologies if the link is not accessible. For some sections you may have to be registered?
http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&t=95421
Of note is that Dean has the aircraft heading west. Steve states in his description that they were heading east after coming from the south west.I would just like to add my piece to this topic. I cannot sit back and read posts of people who either suggest this is an April Fools or in anyway faked. I have to laugh and really i should not. Though the pictures are genuine not faked in anyway. The day in question March 10th there were three of those aircraft. They were slightly south of Amarillo and heading west. Steve Douglass was not the only person present. So if certain people are suggesting the story and photos are possible fakes then that would mean the other person to take the photos is in on it also? The story and photos are real nothing fake about it.. i should know i am the photographer of the B/W images. So give him credit for once. I have known Steve for a number years now since i moved here from england. Dean Muskett
MikeC
Closed Account
Sigh...obviously it's too much to ask people that they admit that they just don't know what it is - it always has to be a super-secret bomber, and a "subtle" hint to eth bad guys that "we" have stuff that they didn't know about before, etc.....because obviously eth way to reveal that is to fly in formation over Texas making patently obvious contrails so that amateur sleuths on the ground can get all orgasmisc about discovering "it"......
They look like delta wing Mirage.
I saw this photo on a CT site, and it has nothing to do with this topic, but the planes escorting the AWAC look very familiar to the ones in the photo that started this thread. Does anyone have an idea of what the escort jets are in this photo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000N/2000D
Jason
Senior Member
OT, I didn't realize that they had a junkyard for planes. I assumed they reused most of the parts. What happens to all of those planes? Honestly, most of them don't look like they are in bad condition. Can people purchase planes from these junkyards if they wish too?
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Yeah, there are many such "boneyards" and of course located in deserts and arid climate locations. Some of those jets went straight from the "assembly line to the boneyard (airline or leasing company with poor financial, etc). Others have reached the end of their useful life (number of "cycles") and can be used for spare parts, but that depends on many factors and specifics.
I'd suppose most anything there would be for sale, if one had the funds.
Here's an example of a simple Google search:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=airplane+boneyard
For aviation enthusiasts the, boneyards are indeed fascinating places (and, some "mystery" airplanes as well!!
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