Morgellons....

MikeC

Closed Account
I don't think it is strange - the medical profession is a closed shop, you have to jump through some pretty extraordinary hoops to get into it, it costs a lot to get into and there's a lot of patch protection going on, you're expected to trust doctors implicitly despite knowing that plenty of them are just as crooked as the rest of the population.

All these things make it increasingly seperate from "the man in the street", and looking a lot more like a parallel to govt - and we all know how much "everyone" trusts the Govt :rolleyes:

So while I think the whole "tptb control everything" theory is rubbish, I have no trouble at all understanding how it comes about....or at least rationalising it!! :)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Morgellons is a difficult subject to debunk. Not because there's much to the theory, or any shortage of bunk, - but because those who think that it's the distinct disease responsible for their symptoms are highly emotional about anything that raises doubts. The also tend to have a visceral reaction to any suggestion of a non-physical component, and will immediately leap to "dismissed as psychological"

The media is partly to blame here - like in the Guardian article, they always simplify it to disease OR delusion, as if there are two extremes which are the only possibilities. They also make the very annoying mistake of saying that "Morgellons" referes to one thing (which them must be disease or delusion). The reality is far more likely to be that the people who self-diagnose with Morgellons have a variety of different ailments.

The poor coverage of it by the media, and even by the skeptical community, has intensely polarized and charged the debate, making it hard to have a reasonable discussion on the topic.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
I will take your word for it.....you have dealt with this longer than I have.
OMG....does that I have an open mind ??!! (que weirdo music..)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I doubt it will change much in the existing community itself, but it will at least help the media get a better perspective. The CDC study itself will have an even more solidifying effect. It all should help long term to prevent the Morgellons myth from spreading, and ultimately reduce the ability of quacks to exploite people who suffer from some of the symptoms.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
reduce the ability of quacks to exploite people who suffer from some of the symptoms.
This guy is running some wide-ranging ad campaigns, and speaking directly to these people:
http://www.morgellonsmedicalcenter.com/

It looks like his primary treatment is a silver product, though he cautions:
Announcement and Warning
From Dr. Rahim Karjoo
Dr. Karjoo does not recommend Nutrasilver orally for Morgellons treatment

His website has a link for treatment steps, but it links back to the same page, so he's not telling you straight up what he has to offer, but "Your health concerns are taken SERIOUSLY", so I'd bet he gets plenty of work...............
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
I wonder if the treatment is an anti-itch cream, and includes the processes of healing the "scratched and picked" areas.
The "cure" may be as psychological as the symptoms.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
It is sad how blinded by the State's "official word" you guys really are. Have any one of you ever met someone suffering from Morgellons? Has any one here ever seen fibers extracted thru skin where no sore exists? I can guarantee, absolutely guarantee not, otherwise you wouldn't be here calling them "delusional" and backing it up with information spouted by University minions who are funded by eugenics groups.

You can debunk anything you want, it's your choice. Sometimes you will have a point and be able to offer insight. But this is sad, and it really shows you have lost the ability to see outside of what State run science has "awarded" you to see. You cant fathom something like this could be true, living fibers existing inside a human being, you were "taught" it's impossible, so you decide it such.

Let me tell you guys something, there is a concept called "experience" which might interest you. Let me explain: try actually experiencing something before you write it off due to learned scientific knowledge. It's not your knowing, it was taught to you, you acquired it. The only real knowing is thru experience. So go meet someone who suffers from Morgellons and check back in, you will see things differently.

So easy for you guys to type all your taught "theories".....you will never advance that way, your knowing will be limited to what they allow.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have not met anyone with Morgellons, just corresponded with them.

However, there are Morgellons patients who have seen upwards of 20 doctors. If those 20 doctors were unable to find any link between the fibers and the patients symptoms, then why would you expect me to be able to find such a link?

What would I see that a doctor would not?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Dear Unregistered,
I note that other than your appeal to "experience", you did not cite any evidence for morgellons whatsoever.
I would really like to get some information, and you seem to say that you are highly qualified to discuss this matter.

Please tell me, based on your experience, what is the single best item of evidence that morgellons is something other than a general delusion?

I magine you had 5 minutes of fame before the US congress, what would you show them, the most irrefutable thing the essence of evidence which cannot be denied?

I'd really like to know....
 

Pogopoint99

Senior Member.
Let me tell you guys something, there is a concept called "experience" which might interest you.
Yes... let's talk about experience.

Medicine has been practised in one form or another, I would guess, since we became human. The earliest record I've seen is of Neolithic trephinations. Since then, we've been adding to our collective knowledge of physiology, anatomy, biology, chemistry. What causes disease. Which medicines work, which don't...

When you visit your doctor with an ailment, that doctors draws on a massive pool of knowledge and experience that took millions of man-hours to accumulate. Hundreds of years of collective study, research and experience backs up every diagnosis a doctor makes. Becoming a doctor requires years of study to acquire knowledge, and years of internship to acquire experience. The reason you are not dying at the age of 35 from tooth decay, is because of modern medicine. The reason life expectancy is rising and infant mortality rates are dropping is because of modern medicine.

Yet some people would rather self diagnose believing thier experience has more value than the sum total of all human medical knowledge.

Just answer Jay's question... what is your best evidence of Morgellons?
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
From the CDC Background and Summary: http://www.cdc.gov/unexplaineddermopathy/ (January 2012):

"Results of the study, published in PloS One (http://tinyurl.com/6sy65s2 (PDF) (January 2012)) show this condition appears to be uncommon among a population representative of Northern California residents. Skin damage from the sun was the most common skin abnormality found, and no single underlying medical condition or infectious source was identified. Upon thorough analysis, most sores appeared to result from chronic scratching and picking, without an underlying cause. The materials and fibers obtained from skin-biopsy specimens were mostly cellulose, compatible with cotton fibers.

"Neuropsychological testing revealed a substantial number of study participants who scored highly in screening tests for one or more co-existing psychiatric or addictive conditions, including depression, somatic concerns (an indicator of preoccupation with health issues), and drug use.

"This comprehensive study of an unexplained apparent dermopathy demonstrated no infectious cause and no evidence of an environmental link. There was no indication that it would be helpful to perform additional testing for infectious diseases as a potential cause. Future efforts should focus on helping patients reduce their symptoms through careful attention to treatment of co-existing medical, including psychiatric conditions, that might be contributing to their symptoms."


Other References:

• PloS One (Summary): http://tinyurl.com/85h6stn
• CDC (PloS One) Full report: http://tinyurl.com/6sy65s2 (PDF) (January 2012)
• Washington Post Magazine > Figments of the Imagination?: http://tinyurl.com/7uclftq ( January 2008)
• An analysis of six years of Mayo Clinic data published in the Archives of Dermatology: http://tinyurl.com/874l42u (summary)
 

Des O

New Member
This is a disturbing video posted by Robert Forgette from the Chemtrails Lawsuit facebook group. It depicts an unidentified family member of Roberts picking and gouging her skin to pull out "morgellons fibers". She needs to see a doctor/psychiatrist right now! This is the danger of quakery and Robert should be ashamed to be encouraging her delusions.

****Warning the video is actually quite graphic so watch at your discretion*****

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Noble1965

New Member
Banned
This is a disturbing video posted by Robert Forgette from the Chemtrails Lawsuit facebook group. It depicts an unidentified family member of Roberts picking and gouging her skin to pull out "morgellons fibers". She needs to see a doctor/psychiatrist right now! This is the danger of quakery and Robert should be ashamed to be encouraging her delusions.

****Warning the video is actually quite graphic so watch at your discretion*****
So disturbing on so many levels.

Wow...
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I would urge you not to engage Robert on this, or post any more about her. It's a family member that Robert clearly cares deeply for, and he fully believes that she has Morgellons. Any questioning of it online is going to make him very angry, and will not help anyone. It's unfortunately a very emotive topic that's not really open to criticism. The ONLY thing I say directly to people with Morgellons is to try to work with their doctors - and unfortunately even that is rather contentious, as their doctors often offer up either no diagnosis (idiopathic itching), or one they do not like (compulsive skin picking, neurotic excoriations, delusions of parasitosis).
 

Des O

New Member
Fair enough Mick,

just thought this video highlighted the very real problems with quackery and what not getting proper treatment can do to a person. I personally have not engaged Robert with this and will not as I can tell that he is very emotional/irrational about the subject. Does not change my opinion that this woman needs to see a doctor/psychiatrist about this.
 
R

Robert M Forgette

Guest
First word: Irrational? I've had the misfortune of funding and trying every approach I could for over 15 months. Including debunking this awful affliction. I sit silent and watch the many stabs at something many know nothing of. Emotional? Yes... It's my mother! How's that for ya? Her and I aren't that close, due to a rough upbringing, so it's not like I LOOK to coddle her. It's more the fact NO ONE else in the family's alive, so it's just my brother and I. She and he don't communicate at all. I've told her many times it's nothing to worry about, but as I've watched her go through this, it becomes plain to see there's something at work in her skin which I can no longer debunk. Finally, this is a woman who's never drank, done drugs of any kind and will not take medication either. She's raised "well off" and now has nothing, due to ill planning and the fact Social Security pays crap to support our elderly. Please stick to the facts of the matter you feel you can prove here and negate what you know nothing of. I admire your groups ability to remain on point and even banter with class, but this subject... I'm the expert here. Thanks so much.

Peace.

Fair enough Mick,

just thought this video highlighted the very real problems with quackery and what not getting proper treatment can do to a person. I personally have not engaged Robert with this and will not as I can tell that he is very emotional/irrational about the subject. Does not change my opinion that this woman needs to see a doctor/psychiatrist about this.
 
R

Robert M Forgette

Guest
As I get this today from her:
COPY/PASTE

Rob,

This is my new status..Imagine if you will, non stop itching day and night, open sores on your skin that emit something that looks like it's out of the x-files, imagine feeling crawling sensations underneath your skin, imagine the wounds healing for a bit then coming back in larger quantities..imagine millions of people all over the globe suffering the same malady, men, women and children alike, Imagine the CDC doing a "study" only to say that these same said people are delusional, they pick their own bodies making sores, they shove cotton and different textiles into these sores..yeah millions all over the world..imagine who's telling you the truth...Imagine those around you who see you deal with this on a daily basis..Will our Government do another study to say their delusional too?? Well you need not imagine because it's happening..It's called Morgellons and it's happening to me...

First word: Irrational? I've had the misfortune of funding and trying every approach I could for over 15 months. Including debunking this awful affliction. I sit silent and watch the many stabs at something many know nothing of. Emotional? Yes... It's my mother! How's that for ya? Her and I aren't that close, due to a rough upbringing, so it's not like I LOOK to coddle her. It's more the fact NO ONE else in the family's alive, so it's just my brother and I. She and he don't communicate at all. I've told her many times it's nothing to worry about, but as I've watched her go through this, it becomes plain to see there's something at work in her skin which I can no longer debunk. Finally, this is a woman who's never drank, done drugs of any kind and will not take medication either. She's raised "well off" and now has nothing, due to ill planning and the fact Social Security pays crap to support our elderly. Please stick to the facts of the matter you feel you can prove here and negate what you know nothing of. I admire your groups ability to remain on point and even banter with class, but this subject... I'm the expert here. Thanks so much.

Peace.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Robert...I have no dog in this hunt...but since you have personal experience.....I'd like to ask this question.

Has anyone who claims this affliction ever been sedated for a few days (or as necessary I mean) and received proper medical care during that time? If the wounds healed during that time...would they feel differently? Do you have any studies or professional papers on this?

Not like induced coma type stuff...but I know when I had shoulder surgery...if I took a pain pill I was out, boom, for 6 hrs. For 5 days I was basically awake long enough to take in some nutrition and take care of bodily functions...and even then...I was a goof.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Robert, I'm sure everyone here feels empathy for your mother. It's a terrible thing to see parents or any family member get sick.
I am sorry for her condition.
Is she close to death ?... or in a long period of ailment ?

However (and that word does not distract from family love), we should often realize that sick people as well as healthy people, can often blame outside sources for their ailments. People do not always die with healthy and sane beliefs.....it's not a requirement of death, to suddenly become wise and all-knowing.
My mother is withering away while she is in a pain-med addiction. She may not last another year.....with-or-without her meds. My entire family is well-aware of her addiction, and her verbal lies to keep the pain meds coming.
I have come to the conclusion that a rigorous treatment plan of abstinance (in her condition), will likely bring her death closer. What is one to do ?

You need to decide for yourself if your mothers ailments are real. When you decide.....it is YOUR belief that is being argued, not your mother's.
Sounds like she is still able to communicate verbally, and with great detail.
Don't expect us to play "two party chat" communications with an ailing friend, or family member.....that's not going to get a fair shake from either side.
If it were me....I'd like to see ANY ailing friend/family member get the best advice.....or at least "all advice", to assess their situation. I would not let them fall into "i know what's going to kill me"....and let them die without all alternatives on the plate.
What they choose to eat...is their decision.

If you are able to distance yourself with your mothers situation.....how do YOU feel ?

It's best for you to investigate all the alternatives as well....and make some decision, even if that decision is "I'm not sure"......well before a family's death.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The treatment for suspected self-excoriation is an Unna boot. Basically a wrap or cast that allows ulcers to heal, and prevents people from picking. Unfortunately this requires the cooperation of the patient, and they often will take it off as they claim they need to pick in order to stop the pain. It's often combined with anti-itch medication, and often some form of sedative. But the big problem is still that the patient will resist treatment that implies any self-cause of the lesions, so chronic Morgellons sufferers are unlikely to submit to it.

There's such a huge range of possible causes for the symptoms though that it's impossible to generalize what any Morgellons patient should or should not do. They all need individual attention.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You need to decide for yourself if your mothers ailments are real.
I would not put it like that, clearly she's really suffering, there's something very real going on there. The question is what is the cause or causes. To what degree is it a real thing like folliculitis, or lichen simplex chronicus, and to what degree is it a real thing like neurotic excoriations, or compulsive skin picking? Is she getting good health care? Does she take medications? Is she in a good environment? There are many very real components to what is happening.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
I would not put it like that, clearly she's really suffering, there's something very real going on there. The question is what is the cause or causes. To what degree is it a real thing like folliculitis, or lichen simplex chronicus, and to what degree is it a real thing like neurotic excoriations, or compulsive skin picking? Is she getting good health care? Does she take medications? Is she in a good environment? There are many very real components to what is happening.
Quite true Mick.
I was trying to communicate what you replied.
Take the word "real" off what I typed, replace with the word "accurate"..."You need to decide for yourself if your mothers ailments are "accurate"".
....("accurate" being the most probable diagnosis at the time).
 
R

Robert M Forgette

Guest
To generally respond to the above posts, I'm not sure really what's going on with her, but after exhausting ANYTHING I could come up with, witnessing (2) Doctors ask her to come in the "special" door and remain at arms length throughout the visit, I can only deduce it's not good, what she has. I've seen the multi legged creatures/insects/nanotech/bugs/things be removed and saved in a dish of Alcohol. Samples now, I hold and will be forwarding to Clifford Carnicom as soon as I get a moment to send to him. Again, I don't know what to think, but there seems to be clear evidence she's got something which if left completely alone... Festers, boils and spreads. It's creepy and I just want her better. I can't continue with this discussion at the moment, as I'm trying to round up a client or two to do some work for. Rent's due soon... Real soon. Work, then this stuff, then play. That's the order of the day. Thanks for not steamrolling me here. I realize with this topic, it would or could be easy to do for some of you and I simply don't have much energy left for defending this seemingly real affliction. Blows my mind actually to witness this stuff up close and personal. I too would be saying: Psht!!! Bull Sh#t!! if I weren't face to face with this stuff for over a year now. Thanks again. Back sometime soon. Thanks for the space in your forum.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Why in the world would you send any "multi legged creatures/insects/nanotech/bugs/things be removed" to...uhhh him? Wouldn't a medical lab of some sort be more appropriate? And how did you get them in the first place?

None of the doc's in my area have a special door. I walk in the front..sit down and wait to be called.

Just wondering......respect given is respect earned.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
I'm not sure Carnicom has the appropriate labs to determine the sample. He might have a microscope. If he has more abilities, I can't find them, regardless of naming themselves "an institute"..
http://www.carnicominstitute.org/html/mission.html
The Institute does not perform any medical diagnosis or prescription of therapy. All studies conducted by the Institute are for research purposes only.
If you do send it to him, also send it to other sources that do not know why you are sending them the sample. That way you will get an unbiased result.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'd have to agree Robert. While Carnicom means well, he's not really a scientist. His science that I have seen is TERRIBLE.

I'd be exceptionally surprised if the samples you have are anything more than skin, sebum, hair, blood, and other normal parts and products of the body - or perhaps regular environmental fibers and debris. Most likely some combination.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
This is my new status..Imagine if you will, non stop itching day and night, open sores on your skin that emit something that looks like it's out of the x-files, imagine feeling crawling sensations underneath your skin, imagine the wounds healing for a bit then coming back in larger quantities..imagine millions of people all over the globe suffering the same malady, men, women and children alike, Imagine the CDC doing a "study" only to say that these same said people are delusional, they pick their own bodies making sores, they shove cotton and different textiles into these sores..yeah millions all over the world..imagine who's telling you the truth...Imagine those around you who see you deal with this on a daily basis..Will our Government do another study to say their delusional too?? Well you need not imagine because it's happening..It's called Morgellons and it's happening to me...
That sounds familiar. Myself, my ex-wife and her 2 yr. old daughter contracted Bird Mites from pigeons that had roosted in the attic space above our top floor apartment and had also gotten into the ductwork. The doctor mis-diagnosed it as scabies and we had to go back in for the right treatment for bird mites. It felt like our skin was crawling and we had a hard time trying to keep her daughter from constantly scratching and picking at lesions, which would collect little fibers from her clothing and bedding. Speaking of bedding and clothing, we had to wash everything and the apartment manager even moved us to another apartment so they could remove the birds, make repairs and fumigate the place. It was quite a process to get rid of the little critters. Bird mites are in the same family as ticks and spiders. I feel for anyone suffering from the same or similar. When I first heard of Morgellons I immediately thought of our battle with the mites. Just something to think about Robert.

http://birdmites.org/

Who...people with a bird's nest near the home, apartment dwellers with nesting pigeons, people with pets or other animals which are infested, farmers who raise chickens, people who obtain used furniture, carpet, clothing, etc, that has been infested. This can also include guests of hotels, office workers et al., when the buildings are inhabited by nesting birds.

What...parasitic infestation from bird mites too small to be easily seen without magnification. Symptoms include pinprick bites, often intense itching with or without lesions, small reddened bumps, and a crawling sensation anywhere on the body; with increased activity at night. Some people label these the "creepy crawlies" or "nose ticklers". The intense itching and irritation on the skin is due to the mite's saliva. When a large area is covered with bites it will resemble a rash in appearance, and it is often mistaken for scabies.

I've seen the multi legged creatures/insects/nanotech/bugs/things be removed and saved in a dish of Alcohol.
Do they look like these bird mites?:



 
Last edited by a moderator:
I

Islander

Guest
We've been following this condition on my site for several years (http://www.hawkeshealth.net/). Bizarre as it is, it's not unreasonable to assume that doctors, clinics, even the CDC, have no answers. Every year new diseases emerge that baffle the medical community. Lyme disease, for instance, unless caught very early, is difficult to control and virtually impossible to cure... even though we think we know what it is. The dismissive comment about the fibers being simple cotton is bogus; they've been observed beneath the skin and have been through lab analysis that does in fact identify them, although without an explanation of where they originated or how they came to be in the patient's skin. One thing is clear to me: whatever this is, it's no delusion.

This is the most recent, and the most comprehensive, article I've seen on the condition. I'm curious as to your thoughts, members. http://alignlife.com/articles/acidity/Morgellons__New_Mysterious_Disease_has_Terrifying_Symptoms/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The dismissive comment about the fibers being simple cotton is bogus; they've been observed beneath the skin and have been through lab analysis that does in fact identify them, although without an explanation of where they originated or how they came to be in the patient's skin.
Talk to Randy Wymore, the vast majority of the fibers he gets sent are just regular fibers. The rest are probably regular fibers too, he's just not a fiber expert.

Regarding that article, it can hardly be the latest. It's just a compilation of all the old stuff.

"Mysterious new disease with fibers" and "delusion" are not the only two options here. Morgellons is simply a list of symptoms that have many causes.
 

Islander

New Member
Please, who is Randy Wymore? If he is not a fiber expert, then is "probably" a justifiable conclusion? That seems to be a bit of a stretch. I'm not trying to posit an either-or situation; Morgellon's could be multifactorial...but the symptoms seem to share a persuasive commonality.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
If you don't investigate suggested inroads or alternatives, then you cannot say/claim they don't work.
Try suggestions first, before taking a stance. After all...you are looking for a solution, not a problem, right ?
 
Top